F*Kin Dis-illusioned

[Jambo Jet]

Ive been in 10 years now and have recently been posted to the frontline again. I am dis illusioned because what do I see.

Bloggs PVRs cos he has not been promoted and does not see a future ( More than one bloggs by the way !)

Binnsworth "please dont go. What would make you stay ?"

Well a scraper would be a start andno ground tour

Its yours

sob sob sob why do I bother? :confused: :confused:

[Scorpius]

Jambo Jet
You should send all the Bloggses to the E3D fleet. They are struggling to find anyone to promote! Most of the elligible candidates are already working for Sir Richard. Not only did my ex-flt cdr PVR, so did my last poster! They even promoted an exchange pilot from Oz to fill a flt cdr's slot. Still, mustn't grumble.

[Magic Mushroom]

Scorpius,
You are clearly very out of touch with RAF E-3D posting policy. Have you not realised that you can only get a sqn/stn exec slot if you're an F3 mate!
Regards
M2
:D :D :D

[SARBoy Loser]

Don't want to pee on your illusion, but following my PVR binnsworth haven't offered me a thing, and why should they. Don't bitch, leave the comfort zone and the regular pay and bite the bullet and leave.

conversely stay in and moan about it, cos it good to talk. ;)

[The Gorilla]

You think you've got it hard. I have just been shafted to go to Saiff Diaroheaa II. why? Because the medics are preventing people with known problems from going to sit in a hot dusty tent, wait for it... due to a lack of medical facilities!!

He can go round the rest of the world, sit in bonneyville for 2 weeks (Can't get much further from civilisation and medical help!!)but he can't be at an international airport 20 mins from a huge city hospital eh???

Like I haven't done enough days away this year (73 so far) myself now I have to cover for someone who can't go to war because the medics say he can't!!

So finally, I have made my decision to leave and am job hunting with a passsion. E3D fleet I give you notice that when I have a firm job offer you have 28 days left to use me.And yes I am more than happy to repay my retention bonus

Nee hah, the next train arriving....... :mad:

[SARBoy Loser]

Gorilla, if you've got an good job hunting tips do let me know! :cool:

[Fay Deck]

SARBOY Loser,

Did Innsworth tell you why they hadn't offered you anything or did they leave you to draw the obvious conclusion?

Fay

[Tigs]

Gorilla,
I know you have it hard mate, but there are boys on 33 who have already done over 100 days away this year and are deploying to Saiff Diaroheaa II for 12 weeks only to come back to an immediate detachment to Kosovo for Xmas and New Year.

[ 20 August 2001: Message edited by: Tigs ]

[The Gorilla]

Tigs,

I sympathise with 33's plight and I certainly couldn't do it, but I would guess from that level of tasking that all the guys on 33 are pretty much around that figure. On my fleet things have generally gone quiet this year and at 70 plus days away I am one of the fleet leaders. Days done away already was not part of the man management equation used when selecting a replacement for the guy with a lowered MES!!
I have accepted that Safe Diareea II is the rough that comes with the smooth, all part of service life. BUT by the same token the service MUST accept that people are still going to leave in droves (despite throwing a bucketful of money at them to stay) if quality of life suffers further. And my particular quality of life is the worst it's ever been.

Nee nah..... The next train arriving :mad:

[Hengist Pod]

70 plus days by mid-August! Oh you poor luvvie. If things get really bad they may only be in a 4-star hotel. You don't know your born.

[ 22 August 2001: Message edited by: Hengist Pod ]

[Duckegg]

Gorrila I dont know why you are moaning all the time. If you dont like it just leave then you will see what real work is like :D

[4 of 7]

I wish you lot would reply to some of these wannabees when they post.

Every time I do, I get savaged by people who are mainly paranoid about looking outside their 'bubble' to the real world.

I finally left after spending a month stooging around the Adriatic giving away fuel to pairs of F3s who used to shoot off and give impromtu flying displays to some bogey chopper who then landed until the F3 shoved off to get more of our fuel.

As soon as I got back to BZZ I applied for the redundancy and fortunately, they accepted me. I would have gone for nothing.

Still, chins up, its much better out here looking back. Nostalgia is great because you rarely miss the **** and if you do, you can console yourself with the fact that it doesn't affect you and the Pension cheques arrives like clockwork.

Cheers, mon braves.

[ol_benkenobi]

Jambo, 'front-line', **ck off.
Gentlemen, the final extension of this Govt and the UNs mandate is that some bloke on the ground moves in and occupies a building which some scrote previously had. This isn't poetic and is a long way from being forever some green and pleasant land. So when your holding at FL nosebleed, bitching about your in-flight meal from Aviano or wherever you've just tourist-ed in from, think of the guy on the ground. He's probably just done back-to-back tours of NI, Sierra Leone, Bosnia or Macedonia. And sure as **** stinks, he's certainly done more than 77 days away from a wife that loves him just as much as yours loves you. Oh, and by the way, that wife is getting by on alot less than half the over inflated salary that yours is. Stop your dripping nonce!
:mad

[sad spaniel]

Gentlemen, why don't you just leave and go charter? The flying is OK, the pay is good and the lifestyle is great. I'm doing it now and loving it. 10 - 14 flights /month max during summer 5 if you're lucky! during winter, loads of days off and a good pension!!!!! :p

[slj]

Sad spaniel

Perhaps its time to change your name to happy spaniel!!

[The Gorilla]

Sad spaniard

Just waiting for the right opportunity to come along. Sending out my CV is begining to pay off, first of the replies and info packs etc arrived in this am's post. Realistically I could be gone before Christmas. Oh happier days are here again!!

Nee Nah...The next train arriving....
:D

[Hengist Pod]

I'll have fries with that please.

[Wee Jock]

I left in 1990, and nothing appears to have changed since then. I took a pay RISE to go into training with NATS. Do like I did, vote with your feet.

[dopeonarope]

Vote with your feet too right..... 40 days but who's counting?????? :) :D

[Mr Nitrox]

It's cracks me up when guys bitch about who's got it hardest ect. The fact of the matter is if you are not happy then change something. If you choose to leave then good for you. Too many good guys waste years of their lives waiting for their pensions when what they really want is the time and the freedom to do what is important to them.

How much time you've spent away is not directly proportional to how uphappy you feel. Its much more complicated than that. Jambo, could be time for a major lifestyle decsion...

[SARBoy Loser]

Nitrox,
I think you've hit the nail on the head. Sadly it's difficult to leave the 'comfort-zone' of regular money with little or no fear of unemployment. Plus remember that many military personnel don't own their own house, so leaving the service is made doubly hard in so much that you have to find a new house as well as a new job. But as you say, moaning it about it all the time will solve nothing, and sadly voting with our feet is the only way to make your feelings felt!

[murphy]

No, sorry!!!

I enjoy my job, but I hate the conditions I have to do it in (pay, promotion etc.)

Luckily the former overcomes the latter, at the moment, but it doesn't stop me from voicing my dis-satisfaction at the latter.

Ol Ben,

Top sentiments mate!!

Yours

Murph x x x

[Mr Nitrox]

Yeah SARBoy, perhaps I am being too simplistic.

RE:Housing, I was lucky and bought at the right time.
RE:Comfort zone/Standard of living, depends on your circumstances. For me, I was in the position that my wife couldn't work (I was away too much, familly too for away to help with the kids and didn't wan't them brought up by strangers ect). Now I'm free as a bird we both can work around the kids school time. Standard of living hasn't dropped but quality of life has dramatically improved.

Leaving is a big desicion,but I havent met many that regret it ;)

[ 29 August 2001: Message edited by: Mr Nitrox ]

[Duckegg]

Is it better now or was it better when we joined ....
Personally ive been in 21 years and I honestly believe our lifestles and pay are better now than then.
WE see the world get paid extra and time off when not flying is not that much of a problem how many civvy jobs can you say that for ...and you get medals!!

[Tiger_mate]

Twenty years ago the SH force always exercised in Germany at the height of winter (No compensation for damaged crops) sleeping in a German barn with field catering and freezing your nads off. Packing up your kit every morning because you did not know where your next nights sleep was to be. Complain? No, Morale was sky high, we had a job to do that we agreed with (dig at macedonia) and we knew that we could complete the task well.

Nowadays the system believes that pay will aid retention, this is pants. Quality of life is still important, and stability (especially with a property mkt in overdrive) is essential, and not available to many.

I myself am resonably content at present but still consider myself as a PVR looking for a time and place, with no doubt at all that the time will come.

TM :cool:

[fagpilot]

Nitrox/SarBoy - good points.

As for the rest of you - if you don't like military life, just quit. Nobody cares about you any more, and as distressed as we are to hear about your 70 days away from home this year, well..strike that - we're not distressed. It's what you get paid for.

You're just failed civilians - more concerned about getting your precious civil ratings at UK-Govt expense.

A pox on all of you. Useless little people.

[dopeonarope]

Fagboy.. you've hit it on the head... people like you just don't care what happens. It's the lack of care for people that makes lots of people leave.

Families are just treated as baggage - where is the medical care, support when spouses are away on Det?

When you want to leave no one gives a damn about the person, just who is going to fill his or her slot to make my job easier.

It is not just the pay (pay is not an issue why I am leaving) that people get annoyed about, its the whole care picture. The erosion of all the things that make us feel wanted - Travel warrants, care for those left behind, lack of thought when posting people, moving goal posts all the time, Aircraft not upto the job, extensions on aircraft servicing, medical back up (what RAF hospitals, how long until I'm seen by a specialist so I can get back to doing what I am paid to do?) :(

[ 30 August 2001: Message edited by: dopeonarope ]

[Tiger_mate]

Ref: fagpilot

Location: Northern California
Occupation: Sales Manager - Systems Integration Firm
Interests: keeping in touch w/UK affairs to remind me how much i despise the UK

Good definition of a TROLL!

Since when has a spam had anything constructive to say about the UK Armed Forces? What a Wilf! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Radar Muppet]

.........and who cares what the ex-colonial thinks about the UK anyway? :rolleyes:

[fagpilot]

Well little boys, I have a good many more years experience in Her Majesty's finest Flying Club than most of you, and have a pretty good feeling about the caliber of the cretins left behind (i.e. my reference to the original "Failed civilians" who eat at the public trough..)

As best I can tell you're:

1: still serving and waiting your 38/16, or whatever the sentence is these days, or

2.: "dark-blue" on the inside only, i.e. using the RAF as a ticket to civvie life, or

3. just not capable of cutting it elsewhere. Face it, if you were any good you'd be based in Hong Kong by now, or at least Luton. Not BZN or LYN.

(do they still have specialist aircrew? the bitterest of the bitter? forever condemned to stalk the sauna's of the messes..)

Let's be honest now, children. You don't like government service, but it's you're safest escape to a possible cushy RHS - and 15yrs later, LHS - in something a little more glamerous than that 1950's technology you're stuck with - and that's why you do it.....

You kid yourselves as you're getting drunk at happy ( or "not so miserable hour") that you make a difference, but in your shallow hearts you know it's not the case. I mean, your government despises you, so... ?

And you don't have to work that hard.

Greetings from America, where, by the way, I earn't more than an Air Marshall (or BA Captain) last year. God Bless technology. God Damn that stupid little increasingly irrelevant island - "the 51st State?"

[Alf Aworna]

Hey fagpilot, do you ever wonder why the rest of the world thinks of yanks as arrogant ignorant prats? And as for "the bitterest of the bitter?"- do us all a favour and look in the mirror.

[Yozzer]

I know Tiger_Mate very well, and he could not have missed the target more if he tried!

Typical yank really <Thinks> Scorpion tank with big dayglo panel on it :o(

Even a career man is allowed to be disgruntled at cost cutting and Tony`s politics methinks.

How can an expat get a hard on about anything associated with loyalty??

DOH!!! I have fed the troll...

[SARBoy Loser]

Now now everyone, lets not let the thread get all 'personal'. We've all made some valid points and at least we've got a forum on which to air these points. Like it or lump it military service isn't all it's cracked up to be, but at the same time the civi-world isn't all green grass either (so I'm informed). My transistion is coming, all I can say is I'm looking forward to a change, and everyone else I know who's left, by PVR or just plain old retirement has no regrets (and they all seem to look a little younger.). ;)

[Brave Sir Robin]

Fag boy.
You should really watch carefully what you say. You comment abou the 'calibre of the cretins left behind'....
I'm sure I speak for many more than just myself when I tell you to **** off and ram it up your ****. If you want to come back to old Blighty and meet any of us face to face and tell us what you think of us, then be my personal guest. I have recently entered the qualified FJ world, and to hear some interesting comments made by other guys genuinely voicing complaints followed by your childish, rude and out of place remarks makes me wonder what kind of a a**hole you are. Oh, and as for telling us that if we had 'made it' by now we would be based in Hong Kong....etc well that made me laugh for quite some time. Personally I couldn't think of something further away from 'making it' than that.

Regards to the other guys. What sort of time away can I expect per year on the front line - F3 / GR4?

[Fay Deck]

A plea to all the genuine PPrune members out there. Try not to bite the bait when somebody like Fagboy butts (no pun intended) in to what was previously an informed and interesting thread.
He/she, you never can tell who it is out there, deserves our sympathy. Any normal person enjoying the standard of life Fagboy claims would not gloat in the manner he/she does. There is obviously something missing in their life that a psychologist would have a field day tracking down.
Also, don't assume the profile is correct either because you might be directing some of your bitterness at the wrong nationality. As a spam myself I do not take offence at some of the anti-American sentiment expressed as Fagboy has obviosly wound some of you up beyond reason.

Fay

[Hengist Pod]

Mr Fagboy

Excellent fishing, but you are a bit of a c*nt aren't you. We're you bullied at school?

[BEagle]

Bug gered probably! But I expect he enjoyed it!!

[bad livin']

Brave Sir Robin...if you got your little feathery badge today at a secret Welsh airbase...CONGRATS! Pass my best on to the others.

Rgds
BL

[CAVU]

Fagboy, It's alright, pick yourself up old chap, you're all grown up (well almost),living in the States, and the head boy can't get you and give you dicky back rides in Sirs' office, anymore. Never ever.

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

Fagpilot,

Maybe, despite our constant moaning, those of us still in the UK Armed Forces have some loyalty towards our Monarch and Country. Three hours ago I was proudly wearing my 'light blue' uniform next to a significant number of WWII Polish fighter pilots who were remembering their war dead.

Not wanting to get all emotional about it but....

"Remember the Few"

[ 01 September 2001: Message edited by: Whipping Boy's SATCO ]

[The Gorilla]

Just ignore the fig packet, he will go away. Don't forget that he probably isn't what he seems to be. Bit like Ducky egg!!

[RRAAMJET]

What a miserable posting from the State with no electricity....managed to get your wife to crank the generator for a bit to power your computer...

For what it's worth, chaps, most of the pilots I fly with at my US airline (the biggest) have the utmost respect for the British military, and are always courteous and never downright rude (unlike some on this forum). It's a little embarassing to answer questions like "..why do the military folks on pprune hate us so much? We like the Brits...". Oh well...sometimes "banter" and beer make a mess, and foot-in-mouth disease is the result; there's an outbreak in California, I see...

Never slag-off your roots ( I believe advice from Michael Caine...) - I'm proud of having worn RAF wings...

[Titan Locked]

rramjet

If, as I suspect, he's using the American definition of "fag" then I don't think it'll be his wife cranking his generator ....!

TL

[ventus]

Fagboy just has to be an ex navigator, well it does rhyme with failed aviator, and its an anagram of vagina rot.

[Max Burner]

Did my full time, now over the hill and in 'Civilian land', grass is not that green, 18 days away a month at the moment, alright I don't live in the desert, down south or in the Balkans but time away is time away.

I do admit it's nice to go home and do what I want to do, no paperwork, glorious.

Fly safe. :cool:

[cyclops]

Ventus; "er indoors says you can't match all ex-navs with Fagboy. And for you, not all Navs are failed pilots. Some of us enjoyed telling pilots where to go. ;)

[Jemima Puddleduck]

Hey folks - just to keep with the topic - I ran this thread a month or so ago which was fairly well replied to (52 hits), and ties in somewhat with what you are discussing.

Have a look - some eye openers.

Best wishes

JP.
http://www.pprune.org/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=46&t=001872

[McD]

It's not fair to the majority of you (and new contributors as well) to have to muddle through 2+ pages of bait and/or reaction.

Because of this, I'm going to close the thread, but please feel free to start another one regarding the original subject.

[ 03 September 2001: Message edited by: McD ]