Good Air Novels?? [Archive]

Mystic Greg

30th Jul 2001, 02:02

Air Warfare fiction seems to be quite rare. On my bookselves I found only the following.

On the Great War, 'The Mustering of the Hawks' and 'The Professionals', both by John Harris published 1972 and 1973 respectively (my copies are later editions from Arrow and Puffin). There were a few more on WW2 subjects.

John Beede: 'Rear Gunner' first published 1965 (my copy from Tandem). About Bomber Cmd.
James Campbell: 'Maximum Effort' (again Bomber Cmd) 1957 (my copy Futura).
Spencer Dunmore: 'Final Approach' (about B17s) 1976 (my copy Pan).
Frederick E Smith: '633 Squadron' (and 4 sequels).
Elleston Trevor: 'Squadron Airborne' (about the Battle of Britain) 1955 (Great Pan).

Frankly, none of the above (except perhaps the first 633 Sqn book) is an especially distinguished novel.

Although not strictly a war book, you might enjoy Frederick Forsyth's short story 'The Shepherd' set in the late 1940s (or possibly early 1950s). Anyway, it is set around a flight in a Vampire.

Finally, I met an author at RIAT today who has just published the first of what he hopes will be a series of aviation-centred novels (to follows the naval examples of CS Forrester, Patrick O'Brian etc). The book is called 'The Aviator's Apprentice' (or 'Will Turner's Flight Logs: Part One') by Chris Davey. It looks quite promising, but I have not read it so I can't give you a positive recommendation yet. However, Mr Davey has certainly researched his subject thoroughly. The book is published by the US company Lucky Press and is available on application from The Turner Logs Co, PO Box 72, Hertford, SG14 3HY for £12.95 (incl P&P).

Moving away from fiction, you mentioned Cecil Lewis's 'Sagittarius Rising'. I think this is far and away the best aviation book to emerge from the Great War. There are plenty of other autobiographies and historical books which draw on personal accounts covering all periods from 1914 to the recent Balkans conflicts. Why go for fiction when you could read the real thing?

If none of the above appeals, you could always try Biggles (I think there are nearly 100 of them) or write one yourself!

oldpinger

30th Jul 2001, 04:09

Try 'Carrier' by John Wingate, as far as I remember, set during escalation of cold war, following the ASW battle (aviation that is) in the GIUK gap. Very realistic description of pinging stuff, in particular the use of those other weapons..

How could I forget, the apparent standard for rotary pilots- Chickenhawk

[ 30 July 2001: Message edited by: oldpinger ]

Jackonicko

30th Jul 2001, 04:41

No contest!

LITERARY
Stranger to the Ground - Richard Bach

HUMOUROUS
Wild Blue - Chick Childerhose

ADVENTURE
Splash One Tiger - Chick Childerhose

There's lots of pulp 'airport novel' aviation and military fiction, some good (eg John Nichol's stuff - who ain't nuffink to do with me, David Axton's, Nick Cook's), some less so, and some diabolically bad. But very little of what you might call literary.

Arm out the window

30th Jul 2001, 06:10

'Winged Victory', by V.M. Yeates.

Title sounds a bit blockbusterish, but it's actually an eye-opening and believable account of the life of a WWI Camel pilot by someone who knew. Highly recommended.

'Wings on my Sleeve', by Eric (Winkle) Brown, whilst not a novel is still a dead-set entertaining account of this bloke's amazing experiences as an RN aviator.

You want it when?

30th Jul 2001, 11:20

The list is long (or I think it is):

Lancaster Target - Jack Currie (I think)
Mosquito Victory - Jack Currie
Goshawk Squadron - Derek Robbinson
633 Squadron
Operation Rhine Maiden (633 Squadron again)

Innumerable Battle of Britian - I was there type stories

Recent stuff:
Almost anthing by Dale Brown
Fly-Off and Check Six by someone who's name escapes me.
Rufus Remembers - Rufus Heald (great book)

... I will have to go and look at couple of shelves at home and then swamp the list...

Max Brakin

30th Jul 2001, 16:20

Low and Slow: Here are couple of interest however my feeble mind doesn't not recall the authors (the books are good though)

Thud Ridge: F105 pilot exploits in SE Asia (not sure if this book is still in print)

Chickenhawk: Try them see what you think

I'll trawl the dark recesses of my memory for others (only when I can find the map showing me the way out !?!?! :p :D )

Megaton

30th Jul 2001, 16:46

Although not a novel, this factual account is essential reading for anyone who ends up in defence/technical intelligence, countermeasure development etc:

"Most Secret War" by R V Jones.

This book chronicles the genesis of ECM, chaff, tech int, humint, sigint, elint, imint blah in the UK during the Second World War.

Low and Slow

30th Jul 2001, 17:07

Some good suggestions.

I have read Chickenhawk and 633 Squadron.
Chickenhawk is memoir, but still good, but I thought 633 was drivel from a technical standpoint.

The Shepard by Freddy Forthsyth is bloody good and that is hardly surprising, since Freddy flew Vampires in the 1950's

I myself would pitch, (though neither is great)

HUMOUR: Petibones Law, by John Keene - US military aircraft industry

SE-ASIA: Taxi Dancer. Another F-105 novel.

I still need to know if POINT OF IMPACT by a well-known PPRUNER is the "Captain Corelli's Mandolin" of Air Novels. I was going to write "Corporal Evans's Organ", but have been advised against it. :)

Any more ?

Cornish Jack

30th Jul 2001, 17:29

It has to be Len Deighton's "Bomber". Probably the best researcher in the fiction business - and it shows!!

sprucemoose

30th Jul 2001, 17:32

I think I read a Bomber Command one called 'Fire Storm' and another (sorry, don't remember the title) about WWII fighters on Malta, but both were memoirs. Chickenhawk by Robert Mason is an absolute must.

I think Imelda Marcos was right (not about the shoes) - truth is stranger than fiction, and it reads so much better!

I do enjoy 'Flight International' on a wekkly basis, though!

TL Thou

30th Jul 2001, 17:39

'Blackhawk Down' - true story about a U.S. mission gone wrong in Mogadishu, Somalia - by Mark Bowden.

Not strictly an 'air war' story, but much coverage of the helicopters' role in the incident (and the Somalians' innovative way of shooting them down). A cracking read.

Jeep

30th Jul 2001, 17:42

Chickenhawk
Piece of Cake - awesome
Autobiography Sir Stanley Hooker (aero-engineer)

Gainesy

30th Jul 2001, 18:13

L&S,
Thud Ridge is by Col. Jack Broughton,
ISBN 0-553-25189-9 published by Bantam in 1985. He was Court Martialed after two of his Majors strafed a Russkie merchantman unloading SAMs in Haiphong. He then, allegedly, "mis-laid" the gun-camera films :D .
Hated red-tape & bean-counters, excellent bloke and a v.good read. Not fiction, but I understand that Flight of the Intruder was based on the Haiphong incident which broke the daft RoE.

[ 31 July 2001: Message edited by: Gainesy ]

Multp

30th Jul 2001, 18:19

Not a very fashionable author these days, but NEVIL SHUTE was an aeronautical engineer who wrote prolifically novels with an aviation theme. His auotboigraphy, 'Slide Rule' is also a good read. Try 'No Highway' as a starter. Books all set in 30's through to early 50's.

Snapshot

30th Jul 2001, 20:51

Ham Phisted,
"Most Secret War" by R V Jones.
What an AWESOME book! Don't know if Mr Jones is still alive but would so much like to meet this chap. There was mention in the book about a documentary on the beeb I think about 10 years ago, wish I could find it!

One other that I have a personal interest in is 'Sigh for a Merlin' by my great friend Alex Henshaw. Another awesome read about his testing the Spitfire whilst at Castle Bromwich (Over 12000 Spitfires produced) in Birmingham (J5 M6 for those passing through).
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrewbrooks1/alex_inspitfire_web.jpg
Alex Henshaw

A thoroughly enveloping read both books.
Snappers

Archimedes

30th Jul 2001, 21:09

Sadly, RV Jones died a couple of years ago.

Following on the Spitfire theme, Jefferey Quill's Spitfire: A Test Pilot's Story is well worth a look.

As for fiction, Stephen Coonts is quite prolific, and as a USN veteran on A-6s, knows what he's about. Off the top of my head, think he's done seven in the Flight of the Intruder series with the same main character:
Flight of the Intruder
Final Flight [which wasn't since he resurrected the main character for the next novel]
The Minotaur
Under Seige
The Intruders
The Red Horseman and
Cuba
Although these all have a flying related background, from what I dimly recall, some of them have less flying 'scenes' than the others. Cuba is meant to be good, but have never read it. Coonts also did another novel about F-22s, I think, but apart from seeing the cover, I know nothing about it. Finally, he did a non-fiction book about his travelling around in an extremely old aeroplane. I can't recall what the aeroplane was or what the book was called, I'm afraid, although I remember a reviewer recommended it as 'Bill Bryson with Wings'

Piece of Cake, is jolly good, and controversial, since if you read it after reading Paul Richey's Fighter Pilot (another cracking non-fiction read), you'll allegedly spot some ...er... similarities between the two. I believe that Paul Richey felt so strongly over this that he intended to sue, but died before he could pursue the matter further.

[ 30 July 2001: Message edited by: Archimedes ]

piston broke

30th Jul 2001, 21:41

Richard Bach wrote a fabulous (auto bio)short story about a flight in an ailing fighter in filthy weather over cold war Germany and the subsequent recovery. Brilliant Bach at his best but be beggared if I can remember the name of the story. (Night Flight?)I've failed to find it on BoL or Amazon. Ideas please?

My best aviation novel is another of the wonderful Mr Bach's. Jonathan Livingstone seagull. The best description of the thrill and mindset of military aviation training ever written Simply awesome!

BEagle

30th Jul 2001, 21:48

For a work of complete fiction designed to send you off to beddie-byes without the need for Temazopan, try:

"JSP 318" - various authors
"HQ 2 Gp Air Staff Orders" - various contributors

Our literary critic writes "A right rib-tickler, 'JSP318' is the biggest work of fiction since vows of celibacy were included in the French marriage ceremony. '2GASOs' is the perfect companion for those suffering from extreme insomnia. Should sell well (not SelRel) in the souvenir bookshop at Saif Sareea!"

piston broke

30th Jul 2001, 21:54

Snapshot, as Arch said the great Dr RV Jones died recently, but your other hero Alex Henshaw is thoroughly alive and kicking, recently seen on local TV climbing into Xray Foxtrot at Shutleworth for a brief interview - God thats one record well worth breaking after sixty years, but could we find a British engine and airframe to do the job?

Come to think of it, there's a worthy project to put PPRuNe into the record books. Our very own all British attempt to improve/consolidate Alex Henshaw's record of London-London via Cape Town, London-Cape Town, Cape Town-London and London to London via Cape Town and every sector on the way, and all on 200BHP.

Why not?

What achallenge for our young designers, engineers and pilots!

Flatus Veteranus

30th Jul 2001, 22:19

Len Deighton - "Goodbye Micky Mouse". A novel, unlike "Bomber" and "Fighter", which were "faction". Len Deighton did his national service in the RAF as a photographer. All his books are very well researched. This one is set in a USAAC P51 Mustang wing in East Anglia during WW2. The main difference between Len Deighton and most other aviation authors is that he can write.

PS. Who wrote "The High and the Mighty"? A good yarn about a DC6 en route Honolulu/San Francisco which shed a prop-blade somewhere near PNR and ruptured a fuel tank. It was touch-and-go whether it would make it. A period piece but the best "trucky" story I have read. It made a good film too.

[ 30 July 2001: Message edited by: Flatus Veteranus ]

Shackman

31st Jul 2001, 00:23

FV - High and the Mighty was written by Ernest K Gann. An even better book of his is "Fate is the Hunter".

Other good aviation books I can recommend to the multitude (apart from some of those already mentioned):

Flying Fury - Major J T B McCudden, VC and lots of others - best piece of advice "Don't turn back on an EFATO!"
War In A Stringbag - Charles Lamb
Winged Victory (needs mentioning again)
Penguin in the Eyrie - H Bolitho - intriguing insight into the int world of Coastal Command in WW2

And last - if you can find it - the English Translation of a Czech novel about Czech aircrew in Bomber and Coastal Commands - Riders in the Sky by Filip Jansky. Once read never forgotten.

Snapshot

31st Jul 2001, 00:33

Piston Broke,
thanks for bringing up 'Flight of the Mew Gull'. I must say, I only read it because of how Alex inspired me as a lad. My school was not 500 yards from the flight sheds from where he and his team tested the aircraft in those 'dark days'.
He gave me a copy when we were together last year and WHAT a read. Alex told me that he actually had/has more affection for the Mew than the Spitfire but most people for obvious reasons always associate him with the famous fighter.
Anyone who reads this book shall, in my opinion, agree that men like Alex Henshaw definitely put the 'Great' back in Great Britain. Shame our country has now gone to the dogs (in my opinion).

As you shall know, when he did this incredible flight to the Cape, there were no radios and nav aids like today, he was lucky to have the local natives light a few oil drums on the agreed day and time to mark a refuelling point or way point. What a star, I feel extremely privileged to call him a friend.
By the way, (this is not a sales pitch, if anyone does want a copy of 'Sigh for a Merlin', I can get copies)
http://members.tripod.co.uk/AvCollect/pprune/churchill02.jpg
Alex with Winston during a visit to Castle Bromwich by the PM.
Snappers

[ 30 July 2001: Message edited by: Snapshot ]

Tocsin

31st Jul 2001, 00:39

A couple of modern-era authors I haven't seen mentioned yet:

Richard Herman - Warbirds, Against All Enemies, Firebreak, and several others.

Mark Berent - Phantom Leader, Eagle Station, and several others.

Also Hank Searls (originally pseud. Anthony Gray) - The Penetrators (Vulcans "attack" the USA...)

MightyGem

31st Jul 2001, 08:51

Chuck Yeager's autobiography. Yes, I know it's not a novel, but you couldn't write a better one.
:cool:

BEagle

31st Jul 2001, 09:56

Agree with you, Snappers. My copy of 'Flight of the Mew Gull' is falling to bits I've read it so often - and 'Sigh for a Merlin' is almost as bad! 'XF looked terrific at Old Warden the other day and flew beautifully. I was quite surprised at its ability to operate from a short field such as Old Warden and it seemed to have surprisingly good ground handling.

I want a Mew Gull for Christmas! But with a GNC250 GPSCom please!

henry crun

31st Jul 2001, 09:57

Again not a novel but a damn good read about flying is "The Wrong Stuff" by John Moore. He was a US naval pilot in Korea who narrowly survived an horrendous deck landing accident, went on to be an experimental test pilot, and finished as a manager in the Apollo space flight program.

Snapshot

31st Jul 2001, 10:39

BEagle,
I didn't realise that 'XF' was actually flying again!! I would adore to see it, does anyone know if it shall be on show anywhere else or is it based at OW? At least there is 'SOMETHING' from our aviation past still around and doing what it was meant to! I don't suppose the cockpit has been sorted (back in its original shape etc) I know when Alex refers to it, he mentions with sadness of it being 'hacked' up.

If you behave (don't know what that is supposed to mean :D ) I cannot get you a 'Mew' but might be able to send you a new copy (with extra pages!!) of the book and ask Alex to sign it. 'To BEagle, the Godfather of PPRuNe'.
Snappers

tony draper

31st Jul 2001, 11:36

Good factual,by a couple of your own
PHANTOM...Robert Prest
PABLO'S WAR... Pablo Mason
A good and unusual aviation fiction, perhaps out of print now.
FLIGHT OF THE PHOENIX...NeviL Shute??.
The book is much better than the movie.

[ 31 July 2001: Message edited by: tony draper ]

Low and Slow

31st Jul 2001, 12:45

Anyone remember "Rogue Hercules" by Dennis Pitts?

Pablo's War = Excellent book.

Jackonicko

31st Jul 2001, 13:12

Piston Broke - 'Stranger to the Ground' (Bach's F-84 flight) -JN

bad livin'

31st Jul 2001, 13:14

Another factual - "Sea Harrier Over The Falklands" anyone?

Overshoot Kenobi

31st Jul 2001, 17:43

Low and Slow, I'd like to endorse the opinions given by Scope Dope and Spruce Moose in recommending Derek Robinson. Not only is Piece of Cake a marvellous read, but he wrote a follow up about the Desert Air Force with some of the surviving characters from Piece of Cake. It's title is A Good Clean Fight. He's also written a couple of WW1 novels, although Goshawk Squadron is the only one I can remember. If you go to Amazon or even better http://www.thebookplace.com, and type in Derek Robinson in the search line you'll get all his currently available books.
Laddie Lucas has edited a couple of excellent books too, particularly Out Of The Blue, a collection of stories illustrating the role of luck in air warfare. Some of the stories are hilarious, some tragic and some simply amazing, but it's well worth a read. It's currently out of print, but The Book Place found me a copy without too much trouble. I would recommend it simply on the strength of the 5 or 6 stories in the series "The Cult of the Reciprocal" - all to do with pilots heading off in the wrong direction, resulting in, amongst other things, a Beaufighter dropping mines in Liverpool harbour instead of Brest. Damn funny.
Hope this helps, and in case anyone reading this can help, I'm trying to find a copy of a book called "Let A Soldier Die", a memoir (or possibly novel, I'm not sure) about helicopters in Vietnam, and allegedly better than Chickenhawk. Seems to be out of print, but if anyone can help, I'd be very grateful

Low and Slow

31st Jul 2001, 20:12

Overshoot,
http://www.abebooks.com has over 100 copies of "Let a Soldier Die." When you've read it, tell me more.

I'm staggered no one here has the read "THE HUNTERS" by John Slater. It was required reading for US Fighter Jocks in SE-ASIA.

OOOH LLOOOK, Ive done 100 posts. God I'm a sad git!!

[ 31 July 2001: Message edited by: Low and Slow ]

BEagle

31st Jul 2001, 21:16

Yes - 'XF was certainly in fine flying form the other week. Have a look at http://www.shuttleworth.org which may give some clue as to when the little raver will fly next!

Perhaps an extensively modified Europa XS with a much narrower single seat fuselage and increased tankage might be a good prospect for challenging Alex's record?

Checkyour6

1st Aug 2001, 02:43

Have to agree with O-K. Derek Robinson's 'A Good Clean fight' is an absorbing read.

Also try 'Enemy Coast Ahead' by Guy Gibson (yes the Guy Gibson). It's an elaboration of his diaries which were put to print shortly after his death. His description of the Dambuster raid is riveting.
:eek:

mr hanky

1st Aug 2001, 04:16

Another non-fiction one - sorry! A month or so ago I was lucky enough to get hold of a 50-year old copy of "The Big Show" by Pierre Clostermann, a Frenchman who flew Spitfires and Tempests with the RAF. Although the title doesn't really grab you, it's probably the best WW2 aviation book I've read - very honest and moving, along with all the good exciting flying stuff. Grab it if you can.

Gainesy

1st Aug 2001, 13:19

Just remembered, "Typhoon Pilot" by someone I can't remember. :rolleyes:
I'll try to dig it out later.

Up Very Gently

3rd Aug 2001, 15:02

For God's Sake, do not even think of reading "Chinook!" by a David McMullen. It is without doubt the biggest pile of pants you will ever have the misfortune to cast your eyes over. The bloke couldn't write if his life depended on it; and it's a shame it isn't.

UVG

Gainesy

3rd Aug 2001, 18:19

Right then, Typhoon Pilot by Desmond Scott, DSO,OBE,DFC*
ISBN 0 09 050700 5

gravity victim

3rd Aug 2001, 19:20

Has anyone mentioned 'Wings on my Sleeve' by Capt. Eric 'Winkle' Brown? An incredible military flying career, including ferrying back to Farnborough many exotic captured German types at the end of WW2, often with no more than a chat with a surly POW engineer by way of introduction. Top read.

:)

PPRuNe Towers

3rd Aug 2001, 21:11

My nominations for the humour section are 'The Bandy Papers,' by Jack Donald. Several volumes and well worth hitting a biblio search engine such as www.abe.com (http://www.abe.com) for a cheap purchase.

A Canadian pilot's exploits in the 1st World War - Saggitarius Rising with extreme and laconic banter. Staff Officers figure prominently in both the comedy and the misery.

ChristopherRobin

4th Aug 2001, 01:26

Try "At the Edge of Space" by Milton O Thompson - about the X-15 programme.

Mach 5 re-entries going backwards anyone? That poor bloke didn't survive to tell the tale, but the book is a great one from the "right stuff" genre.

Skylark 4 BLW

4th Aug 2001, 03:23

How about any of Stephen Coonts Intruder series of books; Flight Of The Intruder, Final Flight etc.

Also 1Air America' & 'The Ravens' both about the CIA's secret airlines in Laos; facinating seat of the pants flying stuff.

Final one - 'Iron Claw' by Sherman Baldwin, good account of EA6B Prowler ops during the Gulf War.

Flatus Veteranus

4th Aug 2001, 19:54

"The Big Show" was a good read, so also its sequel "Flames in the sky". I read them on the Driffield course in 51. They were slightly spoiled for me when a fellow instructor at Middleton said he had been on the same Tempest wing as Closterman, and had even flown on some of the sorties the book purported to describe. "Load of bull****", he said! Still, treated as "faction", they are worth a read.

"Imperial 109" by Richard Doyle catches well the flavour of travel on the old C-Class boats. I know, because I had the good luck to fly from Poole harbour to Rangoon in Caledonia when I was a boy. What a cruise! As long as they beat P&O they weren't worried about how long it took.

Mycroft

5th Aug 2001, 02:17

Snapper
What you want is The Secret War, a 6/7 part series made by the BBC in 1977 (7th part 1978); based on Most Secret War, Dr R V Jones being featured particularly in the first episode, it is available on 3 videos, but as they were released in 1994 they will probably only be available by order

Hengist Pod

5th Aug 2001, 13:12

Chickenhawk, by a mile. Forget all this fast jet b0llocks.

And I can't read. That's why I found Chinook! so compelling.

s650588

5th Aug 2001, 15:06

Stephen Coonts - found earlier stuff to be more believable eg Flt of the Intruder

Len Deighton - Bomber, Goodbye Mickey Mouse (fiction), Fighter (fact) - well written

Fly for Your Life / Reach for the Sky / Dam Busters - British WW 11 stuff (fact) - again very readable

R V Jones - couldn't agree more - excellent

Chickenhawk - again very good read

Roald Dahl's biography - writer of children's fiction but a WW 11 fighter pilot

Ivan Southall biography - similar to Dahl but flew Short Sunderlands in Coastal Command

Air America ("fact") and much better than the movie - includes stories of peope flying 3,500 hours in one particular C46

Have read extracts from Pierre Clostermans book - very readable even if some is 'invented'

Jim Beedes experiences as a tail gunner in WW 11 - again very readable

Jim Thorne - Falklands 2 and Mustang Summer - good pot-boilers from an aviation 'expert'

Snapshot

5th Aug 2001, 15:21

Mycroft,
thanks, I shall endeavour to locate the videos, I know during the television interview, there was with a female resistance leader who had helped tremendously with information during the war. He had only known her as (I think) 'Oddette'. Her name kept cropping up in various intelligence reports and she clearly played a massive role in getting information 'through'.
At the interview, they actually met for the first time (wow, what a moment that must of been).
There is a photograph in the book taken at the television studios, so it would be great to see it. Thanks again, I cannot emphasise enough to anyone interested in intelligence, radio, radar, V1, V2, the heavy water plants and photo recce stuff that this book is AMAZING.
Kind regards
Snapshot

[ 05 August 2001: Message edited by: Snapshot ]

kippermate

5th Aug 2001, 15:28

Not a novel but worth a read: There Shall Be Wings - Max Arthur Personal accounts of life in the RAF from aircrew and groundcrew alike. People can do some amazing things in times of adversity.

Brakes...beer

5th Aug 2001, 22:01

Not fiction, but a superb read on a lazy summer day: Frank Tredrey's 'Pilot's Summer'. About his CFS course in the 30s at Wittering on Avro 504s, Tutors and Hawker Harts. No cliffhanging suspense, but days of glorious flying and tales from the inter-war Air Force.

ISBN 1 902914 12 0, Tiger & Tyger, 01695 575112

Davaar

8th Aug 2001, 09:02

"The Bridges at Toko-Ri" by James Michener (I think). Great movie too, William Holden and Grace Kelly.

Hengist Pod

8th Aug 2001, 11:06

She'd have got it

Wiley

8th Aug 2001, 18:49

Mr hanky / Flatus Veteranus, I read Pierre Closterman's book when I was a young bloke and was impressed as hell with parts of it - (sticking his head out the hole he punched in the roof of the lightie to refuel from four gallon drums in flight on his escape from Saigon to Malaya for example).

However, I knew an old bloke (sadly no longer with us) who'd flown Tempests and Typhoons with the RAF post Normandy and when I mentioned the book to him, he all but foamed at the mouth at the mention of Closterman's name. He'd flown in the same squadron and he didn't have a good word to say about the man. Said much of what Closterman had written about his exploits was absolute bunkum and he was particularly critical of the man on one point - the number of wingmen he lost. (He said he had a bad habit of leading his flight back for second low level strafing runs of highly defended airfields, which was particularly bad news for the blokes in the aircraft bringing up the rear of such formations.)

On hearing these criticisms, I was reminded of one thing in the book - when Closterman was still in Indo China with the Vichy forces, he mentioned how he spent hours and hours fascinated by the antics of the insect-eating lizards on the walls. The man was a self-admitted gecko watcher! (Anyone who spent any time in Malaya/Malaysia with HMG's forces in the 50's and 60's will understand what a terrible insult that is.)
----
Have to agree with Pprune Towers. (All) 'The Bandy Papers' are excellent, even the post-WW1 stuff. Rare combination - and author who can write comedy really well and who knows about aeroplanes intimately.
----
Another very good read IMHO may be the same one recommended by layman - 'They Hosed Them Out', a biography of an Australian tail gunner who did a tour with Bomber Command only to be given a 'rest tour' with the Tactical Air Force on light twins on daytime raids against Channel ports. The book was written around 1950 and it would not be inaccurate to describe the author as more than a little disenchanted with the RAF hierarchy. (If you think Len Deighton's fictional hero in Bomber was a bit disaffected, he was just a tad browned off compared to this bloke.)
----
Richard Pape's bio (forgot the title) is another true story that reads more like an adventure yarn. A Nav in Bomber Command, (I think on Stirlings), after he was shot down, he was active with the French Resistance. I remember him saying that after you've cut your first couple of throats, killing people 'up close and personal' isn't all that hard.
---
I particularly enjoyed Don Charlwood's 'No Moon Tonight', another factual story of a crew training up for and completing a tour on Lancasters - the first crew on their squadron to do so in almost a year.
---
All the WW2 stuff Roald Dahl wrote is excellent. His biography is wonderful, both the stuff in East Africa before the war and his flying in North Africa and Greece. (Loved the bit where he is first sent out to join his squadron in Libya - unbelievable. And before the war, his story of the old bloke literally pulling his young wife from a lion's jaws was extraordinary.) The short stories he wrote about flying in Syria were superb. Loved the spooky one about the young Hurricane pilot who goes missing but turns up safe and sound, aircraft intact, 24 hours later, with no explanation of where he's been. Very X-Files.
---
I have to agree with layman re 'Air America'. Mel Gibson should hang his head in shame for involving himself in what Hollywood did to Chris Robbins' excellent book.
---
Of course, if it's aeroplanes and the people who fly them you want to read about, there aren't many out there that beat Ernie Gann's 'Fate is the Hunter'. There should be a question on FITH in the ATPL exam.

Davaar

8th Aug 2001, 19:01

Wiley: "As told to": In the bar in the Mess at RAF..........in the mid-1950s a somewhat relaxed WWII vet, pilot, DFC, volunteered the anecdote about a section leader who had the same habit of risking life and limb of his No 2, my man being the No 2. My man reasoned with No 1. No 1 continued the habit. My man gave him a squirt with cannon. Problem solved.

rob_frost

9th Aug 2001, 01:18

I notice John Nichol hasn't rally been mentioned? .......
I actually like his books ( read them all ), although they are rather simple, at least compared to bok like the shepard, and others by the same author

maybe is due to him, in the last two books ( Stinger and Decisive measures ), not icluding something which has been in all his previous books.........

Wiley

9th Aug 2001, 08:28

Further to my post above, I think the title of Richard Pape's bio was 'Boldness Be My Friend'.

SPIT

9th Aug 2001, 21:21

WILEY
The name of the bio by R Pape was BOLDNESS BE MY FRIEND and the book called They Hosed Them Out (A REALY GOOD READ) was by John Beede an Aussie Rear Gunner in the RAF and it is worth trying to get a copy.

Samuel

10th Aug 2001, 14:31

Wasn't Richard Pape a Wg Cdr, and did he not have another book titled "The White Rabbit"?

An excellent read if you can get them, are "And that's another Story," and "A Likely Story," both by Guy Clapshaw; ISBN 1-86941-324-5, and ISBN 0-908595-70-0 respectively.Published by Random House.Both are excellent.

Foreword to the first is by Frederick Forsyth,who was on the same course as Guy at Ternhill. They both flew the Piston Provost and Vampires. Guy later flew all manner of pistons ,and eventually DC8's for ANZ.

The book written by Stephen Coontz which was not a novel, told of his journey around the unsealed strips of America in a Boeing Steerman, and aircraft I have had the privilege of flying in more than once.Wonderful for rolls and loops!

[ 10 August 2001: Message edited by: Samuel ]

SPIT

11th Aug 2001, 14:31

My mistake Samuel, the author of Clouds of Fear was Richard Pope NOT PAPE. I have the book in the loft but I can't get to it as I do not like Heights???

Harry Peacock

11th Aug 2001, 17:27

Recently read 'Northern SAR' by ??? 'bout US Sea King combat sar during 'Nam. Fiction but very factual and the Sea King stuff is spot on. The story line is a little predictable and as to a FJ jocky and chopper pilot being best buddies..... not in a million years. But still a good read!!

Low and Slow

11th Aug 2001, 18:32

Sorry to bang on guys, but this is simply one of the best books I have ever read. The Hunters by James Salter. It's now re-printed. It even made me respect fighter pilots. It's that good.
Get it through Amazon.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1860466648/qid=997540147/sr=1-11/ref=sr_sp_re_1_11/202-5848093-1098225

Holt CJ

12th Aug 2001, 14:07

What an absolutely superb thread this has been. I am a new chum on this BB and am just getting to grips with its features. Ventured onto this forum merely to reminisce among chums of my past. Having started on the Rumours and News forum, this is like a breath of fresh air!

There has been one post that, IMHO, let us all down. It was offered up by one “Up Very Gently” (UVG) who, for some obscure reason, chose not to commend to us his better reading (if he in fact does any) but to bucket a book written by a good friend of mine (also a fellow PPRuNer), Dave McMullon. He did so in the following terms: For God's Sake, do not even think of reading "Chinook!" by a David McMullen. It is without doubt the biggest pile of pants you will ever have the misfortune to cast your eyes over. The bloke couldn't write if his life depended on it; and it's a shame it isn't. Shame on you UVG. Though not a best-seller, this book has sold many copies and has been enjoyed by many thousands of readers, including myself. As to your opinion on the author’s writing ability, the very sentence you constructed to denigrate that ability illustrates very clearly your own lack thereof. What’s wrong with you, lad? Don’t you have a grammar-checking facility on your PC? Didn’t anyone ever advise you that, where you have nothing nice to say, it is often best to say nothing at all? Or is it that you are one of those who did not like reading the truth about facts surrounding the aftermath of the Lockerbie Disaster?

[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: Holt CJ ]

PROPFLOP2

14th Aug 2001, 02:10

To Tocsin and all othewrs who are keen on modern ! fighter stories, I cannot recommend highly enough the books of Mark Berent. Written by an authore with 3 tours in Vietnam under his belt thay reallly lay out not only what it must have been like flying and fighting in that Campaign but also the creation of many of the tactics we take for granted now. Unfortunately,despite repeated trips to US book stores I cannot track down any more than his first 2 books. They are Rolling Thunder and Steel Tiger. The others, Phantom Leadrer, Eagle Station and Storm Flight seem to be out of print - a real shame.

henry crun

14th Aug 2001, 02:30

Add to the list of those about the Vietnamese air war try "Thud Ridge" by Col. Jack Broughton.
Its a true story about the the F105 bombing campaign, and the trials and tribulations they faced fighting not only the North Vietnamese but also their own high command.

[ 13 August 2001: Message edited by: henry crun ]

cerberus_the_dog

17th Aug 2001, 02:39

Also by Ernest K. Gann (SHACKMAN on Page 2 of this thread) "In the Company of Eagles". WWI French v German grudge match, published by Hodder and Stoughton Ltd in 1966 for a very reasonable 25/-! May well have been reissued?

RATBOY

17th Aug 2001, 17:42

Try Ernie Gann's autobiography "Hostage to Fortune" it has more flying stories in it (how about almost taking out the Taj Mahal with a B-24) and they are real.

Seem to recall as a kid finding a paperback anthology editied by Paul Brickhill (maybe) that had lots of different bits of WWII stuff in it including squadron songs and various stuff that doesn't find it's way into official histories.

For modern stuff try Fighter Combat by a fellow named Shaw published by U. S. Naval Institute Press. Best description for intelligent lay person of modern fighter tactics (1 v 1, 1 V many, energy maneuvering, guns offense, guns defense missiles defense etc) I've seen.

"Wings over the Sea" history of carrier aviation can't recall author or publisher, excellent capsule history. Written from British point of view, which is fine cuz they invented the meatball and ejection seat, two indespensible naval aviator tools.

Sloppy Link

18th Aug 2001, 23:15

PPruners, a first class thread with some titles that I will go and read now and some titles that I already have but there is one glaring ommission from this fine list.....Joseph Hiller and "Catch 22". I thought the film was a complete load of tonk that did not and could do justice to the author and have never watched it again. There are such marvellous characters like Doc Daneeka, Major Major, Nateley, Nateley's Whore, Milo Minderbender (we probably know someone like him) and Yossarian to name a few. How Milo gets the Squadron to bomb it's own base for the "syndicate" or the how the title of the book is described is absolute brilliance. The General Staff come in for some stick just to show that we do not have the monopoly in that department today. For pure irony/cynism/black humour/sardonic humour/sarcasm and the complete futility of war, this is the best book by far and is still good on the fourth or fifth read.

Oggin Aviator

19th Aug 2001, 15:01

Agree Most Secret War by RV Jones is awesome.

Have a look at Five Lives by Laddie Lucas - Top Golfer, Journalist, WWII RAF Fighter Pilot, MP and Dog Racing executive - an insight into a full life led.

Other Favourite is Fly Navy - The View from the Cockpit 1945-2000. Recollections and lots of pictures from many Naval Aviators of the bygone age. Carrier mishaps, Jungle ops in the Far East, Falklands, Gulf etc etc. Very good and highly recommended and proceeds to the Fleet Air Arm Officer's Association, a charity.
ISBN 085052 732 5

PPRuNe Dispatcher

27th Aug 2001, 00:11

"Faster than the sun" by Peter Twiss OBE, DSC. Not just an autobiography, it's also a most amazing and compelling story of what it took to break the 1000mph barrier. I've got many of the books already mentioned in this thread and this ranks among the best.

---Mik

Lowtimer

28th Aug 2001, 18:24

One that isn't a novel but rather a superb autobiography with all the colour, pace and verve of a good novel is "Carrier Pilot" by Norman Hanson. It's a superbly evocative account of his flying with the RN during WW2, training in the USA then as a Corsair pilot with the British Pacific Fleet. Probably not in print but get one from the second-hand aviation specialists if you can.

Among the actual novels of air warfare, the two best I've read are Bomber by Len Deighton, and The Professionals by John Harris (ww1). However, the best WW2 combat novel I've read is The Shepherd by CS Forester (the Hornblower author) It's an account of a convoy crossing from the point fo view of a destroyer skipper. Magnificent piece of literature.

You want it when?

28th Aug 2001, 20:18

Slightly off-topic: Douglas Reeman writes excellent novels, mainly about sea stories (also 18c as Alexandra Kent - Bolitho stories 10 out of 10). One of Reemans novels was about a seafire pilot in the 2nd World War, however all of them are very good.

Also to whoever rated The Penertrators (Cold war Vulcan spoof attack on the USA) - very good book, I found it at Gravity books (another recommendation) and read it cover to cover last week. YWIW senior flew Vulcans about that time so it's going into his X-mas stocking!

This thread has got to be archived - I shall just ask Mrs YWIW to buy books off it for the next couple of years :D

Gash Handlin

28th Aug 2001, 21:57

Samuel,

slightly off topic but if we are talking about the same "The White Rabbit" it was written by Bruce Marshall and is the wartime biography of Wg Cdr Yeo-Thomas GC, MC.

It tells of his wartime exploits with SOE and the French Resistance and of his capture and imprisonment in Buchenwald concentration camp among other places.

Tiger_ Moth

29th Aug 2001, 02:32

Someone mentioned the book FLYING FURY by James MCudden.
Is it actually written by the man himself before he died? Is it a good, interesting autobiography or a messy mish mash of diary extracts? Is it worth £7?
thanks

Samuel

29th Aug 2001, 08:11

Gash, you are quite correct, and I had realised my mistake but was waiting for someone to point it out!!I'm surprised at how common this list is however, as I have read most of them at some time or another.

Not about flying, but anything by the late Nicholas Monsarrat is worth reading. The Cruel Sea is now, and always will be a classic. I still have mine won as a book prize at school!

Reheat On

30th Aug 2001, 01:04

This has to been the ultimate christmas present thread!!!

Try these:

Dale Brown: Flight of the Old Dog

Any ex V force men will relate, and ex Buff exchangers will love it - good cold war 'what might have been stuff' He has written loads of other novels but IMHO they have become beach novels. Technically excellent though.

Not a novel, but a good account of British engineerring at its best -The Marshall Story - Sir Arthur Marshall's [as in Marshalls of Cambridge] account of how he came to be in aviation -and many c130 crew can be grateful for his work.... ISBN 1-85260 472 7

Falklands - the Air War 1986 - Blackmore Press ISBN 0-85368-842-7 - THE definitive account of all thaat went on, who did what, orders of battle, aircraft etc. Absolute reading for all who plan for the future.

Following on from Samuels mention of Yeo Thomas, Wg Cdr Forest Frederick Yeo-Thomas [aka Tommy] is mentioned often in that most extraordinary of books, [non aviation, and factual but who cares!] 'Between Silk and Cyanide' - Leo Marks' story of his role as chief codemaker to SOE. The return of Tommy at the end of the war from Gestapo captivity is to put it mild tear rending and moving. How lucky we all are to have benefitted from the bravery of such men. Tommy got his GC in '45 from G-VI-R and it referred to Acting Wg Cdr RAFVR ... and in Paris, there is a street, La rue Yeo-Thomas.

Many will know the poem writing skills he posessed and recall the film about Violette Szabo. Indeed the elders will possibly have known 84 Charing Cross Road

Not an aviation book, but in many ways a book that sums up the cameraderie and sense of purpose that serving ones country be it in war or peace can bring about.

[ 29 August 2001: Message edited by: Reheat On ]

Ray Dar

30th Aug 2001, 04:20

Harry Peacock,

North SAR (ISBN 0 671 85588 3)was by Gerry Carroll, he wrote two others before he died,

Ghostrider One, (ISBN 0 671 85589 1), and
No place to hide, (ISBN 0 671 85590 5)

Unfortunately he passed away after the third novel, and I think Tom Clancy got involved to help publish them.

He was a highly decorated LCDR in the USN and the books are an outstanding read for anyone let alone us Helo drivers.....

Sea Harrier over the Falklands was a good read, they take a while to order but I did manage to get one after about six weeks a few years ago, unfortunately I don't have the ISBN, a mate has the book. Interesting reading from an apparently like him or hate him CO.

Fortunes of War (ISBN 0 75282 476 7) is stephen Coonts latest.