PR or Prejudice !!

[Rude C'man]

Ok imagine the scenario in some MOD office in London. Big wheel is sat at his/her desk thinking what the other half is going to throw at them for dinner tonight. Is it worth going home to or shall I nip round to the lovers and have some on the side?
The phone rings and it’s his/hers trusty old friend from Carlton TV. The voice on the end then goes on about fly on the wall documentaries and reports in the Sqaudies rag (The Sun) etc etc putting the RAF into Jo public’s bad books. The bait is set, and then there is the big fat question.
“ How do you fancy 15 mins of free PR on prime time TV during the day?”
“What do we have to do?” comes the reply
The Carlton stooge then goes on
“ We want to film the front line in the Military doing their job, for a day in the life of series”
“ I know just the place” comes the reply from the now jubilant MOD mug.
“ Why not try Odiham? We’ve even got some females that you can film”.
Need I say more…… ok you know me too well…………… I will.

Now a lot of this could be rumour and conjecture but the fact is yet another female is going on Prime time TV as PR for the Forces. I’m not jealous nor would like to be the object of the programme and I am not even sure that the said individual is happy about the fact. All I would like to know is when are we going to get a positive piece of media PR or photo and RAF News article about front line crews doing their job without the obligatory lumpy. I am not against women in the Armed forces in fact that’s far from the truth. What concerns me and gets my goat is the discrimination shown between males and females when it comes to PR. In fact I could almost go as far to say that in my branch at times if you’ve got tits you’ll go far.

Ok now I’ve done it, the gates are open, these are my personal views and all replies are welcome. Is it me, am I just seeing one side of the story or does it seem like the PR machine has just left us blokes behind?
:rolleyes:

[Scorpius]

They should bring their cameras to Waddo - we have plenty black lesbions from Glasgow on the E3D fleet! There's also a few Welsh!

[Sloppy Link]

I note that females are about 7% of the Armed Forces but seem to command 70% of the PR effort. I also would not wish to be part of an enforced PR campaign but why, when they think of this, do they not wheel out a token grey haired, slightly over weight, forty year old to show that they are even handed and the services can be a career for life and not just until the late twenties. Granted a recruit needs to be young but also give them an insight to what the long term future holds. Pah!

[ 14 August 2001: Message edited by: Sloppy Link ]

[Lowkey]

I am very disturbed by this new requirement for us all to complete an Equal Opportunities Course before being allowed to tale leave, this is togther with CCS and Fitness Test and will become Mandatory as of 1 Oct 01.

1. Fitness tests are personal pride, surely we can be relied on to stay fit, without having to emabarass ourselves and the Ped staff in a pointless test. If there was a real necessity it would be set at a reasonable level and not at one which you can do wearing flying boots, an immersion suit and helmut (we tried!)why I don't know!!

2. We are never going to be truly equal opportunity until we stop talking about it. Whilst we are made aware we think there is a problem and therefore create one. We all act the same, eat the same and do the same job therefore by definition we all have the same opportunity. I would like to believe if someone is discriminated against it would be picked up very soon and dealt with summarily by those involved.

3. CCS , they can't train us if we fail and I know that when I needed to know the stuff we had another series of lessons and by god did we pay attention!

4. Leave us time for our primary duties and stop the bullS**t that is making so many people leave.

'nough said, feel better now!

[Hengist Pod]

If "said individual" is not happy about it, why doesn't she tell them to get stuffed? Is promotion worth a lifetime of pi55-take?

[BEagle]

Rest assured that the biggest tits are not always women..........

Lowkey, I think that you'll find that threats to withold leave for any reason would be considered by any court in the land to be 'unreasonable punishment' and contrary to the European Human Rights charter. If you are so threatened, advise your line supervisor that you require the reason in writing to prepare your case with your solicitor.

[ 14 August 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]

[Max R8]

Mmmm... let me see if I get this right. They will not let me take leave until I am politically correct. I guess they had better just lock me in the office and throw away the key. Looks like those commie ba*****s won the cold war after all.

[Up Very Gently]

Unfortunately, PR is all about being "Sexy". Perhaps not what people want to hear, but it is, after all, a sexist society, despite what some people pretend. (Having said that, I think we are generally better than a lot of Civvies are). Hence, PR is generally all about fast pointy things, and attractive looking people. Not many kids aspire to being "slightly overweight 40 year olds" (although it comes to us all, eh Rude!) Who joined up thinking, "mm, in 20 years time, I could be a plump, greying, spec-aircrew Tri-Star pilot! Top!"

By the way, I'm not Strat AT-ist, or Ageist. In fact, I just turned 30, and found my first grey hair - luckily, it ain't on me head!

Rude, referring to another post, what "Sports" event did you pick up trophies for? Olympic pie eating, or International Posing perhaps? :cool:

UVG

[Pub User]

If the lady in question does not want to do it she does not have to. Believe it or not some women can and do say 'no'.

[Snapshot]

I think any potential 'future' FJ pilot/nav - boy or girl who saw a photograph like this in a careers office or on a billboard, wouldn't give a toss about all this cr@p OR what sex was flying the aircraft, as long as 'they' knew, if 'they' were made of the 'right' stuff, 'they' would get 'their' chance to be doing just what the photograph shows!
Don't suppose anyone shall use my 'free' to MoDPR photographs though as I'm a bloke :D
So much at my attempt for to boost morale and help PR!
http://members.tripod.co.uk/AvCollect/pprune/SAOEU_GR1.jpg
Snappers www.AvCollect.com (http://www.AvCollect.com)

[ 14 August 2001: Message edited by: Snapshot ]

[oldpinger]

I'm guessing it's the same over here, I'm thinking the female aircrew are getting a bit pissed off about having to do all the PR stuff- being not a lot of them and the PR frenzy recruiting has gone into lately- they'll have to start using actors (PC version of actresses) instead, or there won't be enough people to fly things!!

As far as I can tell the real enemy is the recruiters, they are the ones that insist on the females for all the interviews (just pose in front of this aircraft that you aren't qualified to fly, the public will never know...) Has it escaped them that not all that many females actually want to join up???

oh, well back to work..

[Low and Slow]

Just how many Females Pilots are there on FJ?
I don't include Hawk, only aircraft, that actually get stuff off the rails over hostile turf.

And if there is more than one, will she stick around to make Sqdrn Ldr or Wg Cdr?

Please tell me.

[tiggy]

Funnily enough, yesterday i was approached by a well known tv company (via my PRO) to appear in a programme on women in 'dangerous' jobs! The researchers insisted that joe public was still fascinated by females in male dominated roles. Needless to say, I told them where to go. Apart from the fact that my job isn't dangerous, I am fed up with the constant requests to go on TV or appear in newspaper articles - I probably get asked about once every 2 months. I have so far managed to avoid them all. I probably wouldn't mind if it was just to do with my job, but it is ALWAYS relating to my gender :mad: Everyone I work with seems to accept me as one of the crew (I think anyway! :D )It is just the media! So don't take it out on us girlies who are just doing our job like everyone else.

[Flatus Veteranus]

Tiggy, was it your photo that appeared in the Torygraph a few weeks ago, sans helmet? If so, you can't really blame the PR blokes for setting you up. I hope you got a tad of copyright or commission (or a modelling fee or whatever!)

PS It may have been the Sunday Times

[ 15 August 2001: Message edited by: Flatus Veteranus ]

[maniac]

Tiggy

Surely a for sex discrimination, if the keep asking you because of your gender? :cool:

Do you think they would get the hint?

[Rude C'man]

Lowkey- I’m up for EO I believe we have the equal opportunity to take the piss out of and slag everyone off regardless of colour gender size weight and origin.

As for the “Can’t take if not EO trained” leave bit what next, Soon I will not be able to park your car outside my own SQN for more than 1 night! Doh I forgot can’t do that now can I .

Hengist- I think you’ll find that as a member of the Armed forces you cannot refuse to be part of the PR machine.

Beagle – couldn’t agree more …

UVG- you know me too well nice to see that the fence is still firmly up your backside must be that stint in Linc’s….
By the way try beef and onion there easier to swallow than chicken
And as usual it was for a sport that required naff all physical effort …
PS Only one grey hair … me thinks Up you maybe not telling the whole truth … last time I looked you had more than one … by the way none on my head yet

Snapshot … got any decent Chinook pics … fast jets aren’t the be all and end all … weren’t any in the SL recovery.

Tiggy.. Well said so it’s not just me noticed the favouritism to women then …



:cool: :p

[Hengist Pod]

Rude, I can and frequently do. Just claim it's for security reasons and no-one will ever argue.

[BEagle]

When we flew the world's last Standard VC10 to her premature death thanks to the ar$es who killed her off (Yes - knock me down another score for criticising the system, Kelvin!), the story which was run was that 3 generations of the same family had flown the same aircraft from the same Captain's seat. The fact that the Captain on that day was a lady wasn't the point and the Torygraph didn't make a fuss about 'girlie pilots'; however various other gutter journos tried to get a story, but no-one was interested.

Incidentally, the lady in question did an excellent cross wind landing on a very short and very wet runway having broken out of cloud at about 250'. It's about b£oody time the gutter press stopped making such a big deal about the ladies - they have more than proved themselves!

[Talking Radalt]

Rude C'man, Hengist is absolutely right, following the Gulf, any member of HM Forces can now refuse without reason to have the spotlight of attention focused on them. Anyone who has pressure applied by their seniors is working for those who simply do not understand the implications of and far reaching effects of face time.
As for all this PR twaddle, has anyone noticed the only people who actually fall for it all are the PR people themselves who firmly believe they are presenting an accurate picture of RAF life? Can't wait for the first case of a female who does the all-too-common court action against MOD for misrepresenting the "lifestyle choice" she's applied for! ("In the video there were loads of girls just like me but it reality it's just a load of pervy old FHM readers!")

[ 15 August 2001: Message edited by: Talking Radalt ]

[Snapshot]

Rude C'man,
re shots of the Chinook, I am planning a photoshoot VERY soon (for the calendar I have been commissioned), if you would like to contact me direct, I can fill you in on locations/timings etc, perhaps you and your 'mates' might like a photograph for the crew room wall? :D
Snapshot

[The Eternal Flame]

Scorpius. I think it is somewhat harsh to say that there are enough "Black Lesbians from Glasgow" on E3's. Harsh that is, to Black lesbians from Glasgow! But I would say that you have more than your fair share of old women and precious types on your fleet.
Bless 'em

Never ever bloody anything ever!

[Rude C'man]

Ok I take the arguement one can refuse unless you're too vain, but heh show me one girlie that isn't vain. Come to think of it there enough blokes around vain enough to fight for a slot on TV.
Talking Rad Alt give me a call sometime haven't had a chat in ages
PS I only know one woman that has refused to do a TV interview for PR and that was yonks ago in NI.
:cool:

[Fishbones]

It's not the fault of the RAF that TV companies wish to focus on our femail aircrew. The fact is the public are more interested in femail aircrew, we blokes have been flying forever and are old news.

If serving femails choose to appear or not to appear on such programmes, secuurity risks apart, that's up to them.

[tiggy]

FV - no, it wasn't me appearing in the newspaper!

Rude C'man - having already turned down 2 tv interviews, does that mean I'm the only 'non- vain' female pilot? :D Despite what you say, I think you will probably find that most girlies turn down the PR where possible.

As a final point, was anyone involved with the 'females in aviation' theme at RIAT this year? Was it tacky? :p

[Autorev]

mmmmm....I'm male, extremely vain, and have turned down TV interviews....where does that put me?

[Ima Muppet]

I remember The Sun running an article on the Puma navigator who dressed as a girl (and perhaps even had the chop, I cannot recall) but haven't seen him/her in many PR shoots since. I wonder why that is - surely we need to be representative of today's society and show Joe Public that the armed forces truly do welcome people with either set of sex organs. Or indeed, both sets.

[Arm out the window]

You know how it is - advertising works.

Heaps of blokes already apply for most military jobs.
I'm guessing that a good number of women are put off by the perception that defence jobs are too male dominated, or aren't the sort of thing they'd be interested in - even though we all know discrimination is unlawful, it's still hard to shake preconceived ideas.

Do you or don't you want a working environment where it doesn't matter what gender you are as long as you can do the job?
I do; I'm sick of all this 'women can't do the job because of blah blah...'

As I say, attracting male applicants isn't really a drama, but to break down long standing perceptions and slowly change things around, the spin doctors need to work on the general publics' minds.

That would explain it, I'd hazard a guess.