Medievil housing policy

[Jim Pooley]

Thought i'd get some feedback on this while im on the subject (post on "gay mil peeps"). I'm in a long term relationship, and we also have a new baby, yet the army will not give me a quarter unless i a) get married (obviously) or b) split from my partner!

We obviously operate in the dark ages.

I appreciate DHE wont issue quarters to just anybody but surely more modern precedents can now be set? I expect a wealth of replies saying "just get married" but that is not an option (for an abundance of reasons i will not discuss), and also many more people are in the same boat as me.

But the point is: If i can get a quarter to look after my child, why the hell cant i have the mother of my child living there as well?

The MOD payout to the (unmarried) partner of the SAS man killed in Sierra Leone has set the ball rolling to a rectification of this pathetic situation, but too little, too late.

Thoughts please.

[oldpinger]

Jim

Come to Sunny Australia! they quite happily recognise de-facto relationships (not sure about same sex) and as such although I'm not married we get ALL the benefits of a married couple, allowances, housing, death benefits etc etc. It involves a bit of paperwork as you have to 'prove' you are de-facto, but no great hardship.

Reference the 'Gay Mil peeps' thread, check out the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi gras for the ADF float, usually a good giggle. Having served in UK, at least we're a bit more grown up about it all over here.... <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[Arkroyal]

As well as having nowhere to live, not being married puts your partner at jeopardy when you retire.

If you die whilst in receipt of a forces pension, the only person who can benefit from it is a spouse to whom you were married whilst serving.

As someone who has re-married since leaving, I am worried that my wife will become a pauper after my death.

The forces are supposed to ensure that its members are neither advantaged, or dis-advantaged in comparison to their civil counterparts. The acid test, therefore is whether unmarried co-habitees are entitled to local authority housing.

In my case, my company pension scheme recognises my marriage. Why does the MoD not?

[St Johns Wort]

Jim

Get the house for you and your kid then get yourself a live in 'house keeper/nanny'. Re the pension and death in service stuff, it all goes to your next of kin who, if your not married, is your 'issue'(depending on age).

Good luck

[D-IFF_ident]

A 'friend' went through all this a few years back. The bottom line is that the Armed Forces policy is not to offer housing to unmarried couples, at present. Although George Robertson stated that housing would one day be available to gay couples. You have 2 options available:

1. Claim you right to accommodation for yourself and your child. To be entitled you will have to prove that you are the sole financial provider for your child. This is achieved simply by claiming the Child Benefit. You then have a right to occupy a family's quarter as it is part of your terms of service. The other natural parent of the child does not, however, have a right to live with you, but anyone else does. Hence the appalling state of affairs whereby a young girl was murdered by her serving mother's boyfriend in a RAF family's quarter a few years ago - he was a convicted felon. The other natural parent may stay in your quarter, but only for upto 52 days in any 12 month period. I don't know who would check the number of nights they stayed.

2. Your second option is to approach the padre (and SSAFA and any other welfare organization you can think of). The number one priority for family's accommodation is welfare cases. My 'friend' battled the system for 18 months and got nowhere, the padre got a quarter for him within 24 hours!

You are right, the system is draconian, but all rules are open to interpretation. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[Loreto]

To investigate the pensions issue, start with:

<a href="http://www.officerspensionsoc.co.uk/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.officerspensionsoc.co.uk/index.html</a>

[Arkroyal]

Loreto

Many thanks for the link.

On the co-habiting subject, it would appear that the MoD is piling up trouble for itself.

Once they cave into the pink pressure and recognise homosexual reationships, then heteros must be treated at least equally. It will happen soon.

Meanwhile Mr Pooley, I'd take the house, move the lady in and wait for the sh!t to impinge with the ventilation system.

If someone's logging the number of nights she stays, then the SIB will have sunk to a new low.

Good luck.

[Sven Sixtoo]

Jim

A possible line.

Article 8.1 European Convention on Human Rights

"Everybody has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence."

Human Rights Act 1998 (which makes the ECHR directly effective in UK law.)

S6(1) HRA "It is unawful for a public authority to act in a way which is incompatible with a Covention right.". .You need a professional opinion before heading down this road - how about that well-knwn human rights lawyer, Ms Cherie Booth QC?. . <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Sven

[The Gorilla]

I did in fact end up as a single Dad in a FQ at Scampton. I had custody of my youngest daughter. My way round it was to have a "live in house keeper"!! You need one because of the number of days away we do. I wasn't the only one on the patch doing that either!! 1996-2000

The DHE make you sign a non co-habitation form which is then attached to the licence, under which you occupy a FQ.

If you do it that way, all above board etc then I fore see no problems. What you do in the privacy of the FQ is your business and the service and DHE left me alone. I occupied it for 4 years, until my daughter left home. I did have to submit to an investigation by the SSAFA rep to make sure I had a need for a live in housekeeper. That was only because the adminers weren't happy to let me have a house without one.

I did sense hostility from the married people on the patch, but that's another story. Of course now that civilians are buying houses around the FQ patches no one can tell who's who!!

If you do just move a girlie or bloke in and you are a serving member, they WILL evict you pronto under the terms of the licence. Nothing you can do about it because thats the law!!

[Mr C Hinecap]

I know it goes against some people's grain on here, but go & speak to your Admin staff. Some of them ARE good eggs & ARE more concerned for your welfare than those within DHE. They know its going to change, just how & when. Don't forget, the DHE would be your landlords & the RAF does not really have any juristiction on the patch any more - it would be a dispute with your landlord & therefore private. Most places have some spare quarters - test the water.

[Talking Radalt]

Try speaking to some of the singly crewmen from a well know Hampshire heliport. . .The mess is bursting, they all moved to spare quarters and yet from what I've seen and heard they're first in line to get regally shafted with no support from anyone when things go pear shaped. . .Since these guys are paying the same rent as "entitled" families, where do they stand?

[Aristophanes]

JP,

I had a similar problem, girlfriend small baby and no house, at Cranwell a few years ago. DHE told me I could not have an FQ, however I complained and asked why not. They skirted the subject and said thay would have to contact the station commander.

Needless to say we all moved into the house about six weeks later. No pretending she was a nanny and no getting married! DHE backed down entirely. I think the problem is mainly prehistoric people working at DHE, get grumpy, it worked for me.

[D-IFF_ident]

My 'friend' asked the Stn Cdr, and wrote a formal letter to his Wg Cdr explaining his situation. Got turned away at every post from OC PSF to Secretary of State for Defence. DHE don't control whether you're entitled to a quarter, their regulations are mostly copied from the previous rules the RAF used. However, they can't give you a quarter unless PSF concede that you are entitled. I do know of a few people who have told their P staff that they are married and would bring a marriage certificate in when they can find it...

[The Gorilla]

Diff

Absolutely right my friend. A lot of people don't realise that the DHE do as they are bidden by the services. In my particular case DHE were more than happy to allocate me a FQ and indeed did. Then PSF and OC PMS became involved and then I was un-allocated until I agreed to submit to the SSAFA investigation.

The problem lies in the fact that our blimps are still living in 1955. Society has moved on, they clearly have not.