I actually want back in!

[let me back in]

Hi All just joined having found the forum after looking for some info. I've had a good look through the forums, but can find nothing on what I am looking for, so here goes.

I left the RAF withing the last 24 months, I was an Engineering Officer (Flt Lt and aircraft based not the darker ground radio type) and despite having a great job now and no need to put a uniform on at the moment I am really missing the life I had before. Yes some may be counting the days until they can get the golden handshake and run off to a new life, but as I said I am actually a little crazy and want to find out if it poss to get back in.

I left under normal exit conditions (38 etc) so qualified for the pension, which has also been great as was the gratuity. I assume there would be some form of payback required and the pension would stop (bit of a shame). Its not that there are no jobs out there or that I am some sort of social reject :}, as I said I have a very good job and a real good circle of friends, its more a case of the fact I miss the banter, the fun and the social side of things and the work. I've not been to a single beer call since I left and not a single burning piano at any of the parties we go to :E

Any factual advice would be great, also going to check with the AFCO tomorrow too.

Regards

IAWBI

[SRENNAPS]

I am so tempted ;);)

[whowhenwhy]

Good luck! That's about all I have to say about that!

[hootandroar]

I went through my logistics training with a chap who had left then rejoined, only went to cranwell to collect new uniform then joined us on course. Worth a call to cranwell and OASC to see what the creteria are, If memory serves me correct then if it is within 2 years you don't have to go through SERE. Good luck

[Rigga]

I left the RAF 11 years ago. I too almost grieved for the loss of comeraderie.
(I got over it)

Because of an ongoing pay dispute, I left a company after five years of enjoyable work. Five years later, I was contacted and offered a golden handshake to rejoin, but this time as a deputy manager within the same company and even Dept. Same people, same basic tasking, same (poor) payscales, same attitudes, same bonuses, etc.

I thought about it for a long while...No thanks. I have changed and I probably won't like what I'd find as I walked back through the doors.

My point is that even after a short while "outside" you have been given 'freedoms' you may not want to or, more importantly, like to lose again. You are likely to have changed.

Sober up, go and lie in a dark room for a while...then think about it again in a Month's time.

[Toddington Ted]

"I left the RAF withing the last 24 months, I was an Engineering Officer (Flt Lt and aircraft based not the darker ground radio type) and despite having a great job now and no need to put a uniform on at the moment I am really missing the life I had before. Yes some may be counting the days until they can get the golden handshake and run off to a new life, but as I said I am actually a little crazy and want to find out if it poss to get back in."

So you were an RAF Engineer Officer (AS)?

Until quite recently the recruiting tap was full on. Now it's a slightly different story unfortunately. As I'm not on the OASC staff I cannot and would not comment further on details except those known by pretty much everyone else in the Service - namely that the surge in recruitment has now abated considerably. The only advice I can give is that recruitment is ever changing and that, depending on what you can offer, its well worth asking the question and the worst thing that can happen is that they can only say "No". However, the RAF that you left less than 2 years ago has already changed and is about to change again, Mr H-C QC's advice permitting.

[Melchett01]

For what it's worth, our EngO did more or less the same as you - finished his SSC, left and missed then banter. Not sure if you have tried it, but he rang the Deskie direct, sidestepping the AFCOs and he was back in uniform within a few months.

But as has been said, that was 12-18 months back. The rumours doing the rounds at my place are that recruiting has all but been turned off - as I say, it's a rumour, but it does coincide with other rumours from Town about the RAF dropping to 30K, so you may well be out of luck. Give it a try though, never know.

[TBM-Legend]

Join the RAAF....more sunshine!:ok:

[Siggie]

It's certainly sunnier, but with a lot less pianos than 201.

[teeteringhead]

Speak to your old deskie, or whoever is in the post now. Not only will they have the real manning sitch - they will also have access to your service records.

Not to put too fine a point on it, whatever the manning/recruiting is like, some people are more welcome to rejoin than others! ;)

[Gainesy]

Don't forget to buy a piano for your leaving party.:)

[BenThere]

I should know this, but don't. Does RAF have a reserve program as we do in the US?

I left active duty after 8 years, then spent 22 more in the USAF Reserves. That allowed me to enjoy the civilian freedom, while retaining the military connection and benefits. It worked well; I loved the Reserves and they had to kick me out when I ran out of years, as 30 total years was the max.

[Jambo Jet]

You have a PM

[Pontius Navigator]

I should know this, but don't. Does RAF have a reserve program as we do in the US?

I left active duty after 8 years, then spent 22 more in the USAF Reserves. That allowed me to enjoy the civilian freedom, while retaining the military connection and benefits. It worked well; I loved the Reserves and they had to kick me out when I ran out of years, as 30 total years was the max.

Ben, yes it does, only it works the other way around.

You retain none of the military connections and none of the benefits but all the grief that it might contain. Typically you would be in the reserves for 4 years after your service after which they expect your skill sets to have faded.

Simply it is a cheap option. They retain you but neither train you nor pay you. Oddly, until recently at least, there was a remarkable failure to track retirees.

[vecvechookattack]

You retain none of the military connections and none of the benefits

Not quite true....You receive many benefits and of course you retain all of the connections. We have a strong and active RNR Air branch where we see our RNR Brethren many times a year. Many of them remain in current flying practice and many of the RNR Instructors maintain their E of C. More importantly, they are full members of the mess and benefit from all mess functions.

If the RAF (R) are not retaining their connections and not receiving any benefits then that is the individuals fault and not the RAFs

[Pontius Navigator]

vec, my answer was slightly tongue in cheek and simplistic. I concede there are two levels of reserve service.

The one you describe has an equivalent in the RAF as the RAF Reserve. This is a formal organisation with an active commitment to training etc. The one I was alluding to was the ToS that a regular is subscribed to which is, say, 9 years in the regulars and 3 years in the reserves. This is a 'reserve service commitment' as opposed to a 'volunteer reservist.'

Chalk and cheese.

[col ective]

I recently rejoined having retired about 5 years ago and then spent 5 years as FTRS. If you rejoin there is no payback of the terminal grant but as you say the pension will stop. If you commuted any of your pension for a bigger lump sum the sum currently deducted from your pension will be deducted from your pay, so you'll be worse off than you were before (but have benefited from a wad of cash). That abatement will continue until yoy are 55 when it is fully repaid either through pension or pay. The good side is as you are beyond the NRD once you've been in 2 years you'll start earning another pension and terminal grant, but under AFPS05 terms.

[EarwigO]

Let Me,

I've sent you an e-mail regarding possible re-entry...

EarwigO

[muttywhitedog]

If you left at age 38 as a Flt Lt, that means you served a full career without a single merit promotion.

Why on earth would they want you back? Its like a 22yr SAC wanting back in!!!

[Wrathmonk]

Mutty

If you left at age 38 as a Flt Lt, that means you served a full career without a single merit promotion

Couldn't he have joined as an airman at age 18, getting commissioned at say 30 (perhaps at the rank of Sgt or higher), before serving his time out firstly as a fg off and then a flt lt? All his service before commisioning would count towards the pension.

Besides, in the aircrew world many have (and still do, albeit in smaller numbers) served their entire 37+ year careers without a single merit promotion (and some would argue that spec air promotion to sqn ldr was not always merit based;)). More stripes (or a bigger barcode), when the promotion system (arguably) places more weighting on secondary duties, staff duties and ar5e kissing than professional ability, does not necessarily mean better!:oh:

[Melchett01]

If you left at age 38 as a Flt Lt, that means you served a full career without a single merit promotion.

Not quite - a full career would have seen OP leaving at 55 without a merit promotion.

Bear in mind, promotion often has less to do with ability or competence, and more to do with the planets aligning at a certain point just as the runes and chicken bones make the right shapes on the promotion boards' tables as the board president swirls the cup around to look at the tea leaves at the bottom.

It could also be down to any number of reasons: there are no slots available at a particular time, an individual may prefer to stay close to the coal face actually getting their hands dirty rather than getting into the murky world of Air Force politics. After all, when you're sitting in your OASC interview, you don't tell them you think they should spend all that money training you just so you can shelve those skills to make the tea in London.

[Pontius Navigator]

promotion often has less to do with ability or competence, and more to do with the planets aligning at a certain point just as the runes and chicken bones make the right shapes on the promotion boards' tables

There speaketh a true believer.

[Herc-u-lease]

I think Melchett was spot on. The RAF career guide I received a few years back had the slogan: "right person, right place, right time" - anyone else remember that? If that was not a clear case of saying the planets had to align then i don't know is.

I fully understand the question over age 38 Flt Lt - he may have even gone the Shrivenham route at a relatively late age - does that mean he was a bad engineer, a bad officer? Perhaps Let Me made some "shocking" career choices (like staying in post for a too long because it suited him or he actually enjoyed it).

However, I seem to recall that memories of bullsh1t fade much quicker than favourable, nostalgic experiences. Like when I think "IOT wasn't that bad". not sure i'd be willing to swap freedom of choice for banter, some sports clubs and passing acquaintances in the mess.:ok:

Let Me - let us know how you get on.

[Pontius Navigator]

The problem with being overage, and over experienced, for the rank is effectively one of potential career blocking.

Many years ago the pay scales for fg off had annual increments for 10 or more years as promotion to flt lt was through examination and merit. For flt lt there were two pay scales. There was one for supplementary list, ie those serving to 38 with no expectation of promotion to sqn ldr; they had annual increments to 38/16. For general list officers, those that went to Sleaford Tech, increments stopped at 6 years seniority.

The majority made sqn ldr at that point when aged about 28-29. The unfortunate few, those whose wings had melted (ex-adc who hadn't got on with their air officer for instance) languished as increasingly underpaid flt lt.

In 1969 (Hodgkinson Report - 'The report of the Committee on the Officer structure of the RAF',), and the creation of a single list, pay increments were adjusted to reflect expected time in the rank. We were lucky then. Rather than lop off the top 14 tiers they simply compressed the scale so many of use jumped in pay to top rate flt lt. The expectation was stated as 6 years flt lt to sqn ldr and so on.

It follows that anyone in the rank but longer serving than the payscale max is folding down a flt lt billet that would be better given to a fofl. If, against the odds, and on sheer time, an overage flt lt is promoted then once again they are blocking a faster mover.

As a gp capt said yesterday, getting another box ticked is more important than exprience and superb performance in role.

If audit boards are so important, why don't we employ auditors?

[let me back in]

Sorry for not responding sooner, not bad manners just been away for a few days.

Thanks for all those who have posted and first of all to clear up one point, yes I was formerly one of the enlisted filth, not taking the plunge until I was far past the other side of 30. So no I'm not the sort who spent his career supporting countless useless additional duties in the hope of getting noticed or was as much use as a f@@t in a space suit, well that's what I think.

Had I stayed in then who knows I may have been picked up at what would have been the appropriate time - then again as I don't follow the stars so maybe not!

Anyway, thanks to those who have PM'd the advice has been what I was looking for, now just need decide yes or no. Though having read the posts on here there is the option of heading to other places does present an attraive alternative option, either way glad the gratuity is safe.

One point though, I did use the Air Force website 'ask a question' thingy and as you can guess not a single response :rolleyes:, some thing never change!

LMBI

[BEagle]

I used to think that a 'Spec Rec' meant that you should be promoted on the next list......:hmm:

I had to get 3 consecutive 'Spec Recs' before I finally made Sqn Ldr (Spec Aircrew) - once described to me as the best rank in the RAF!

[Jumping_Jack]

You and me both Beagle, however, as 'Manning' say, the prom rec is not as important as the write up behind it. On the last board I was the only 'exceptional' being read, all the others were High recs.....they got promoted....I didn't. So it is really down to the quality of the ROs writing, right buzz words or phrases that does the trick. Hey Ho! :)

[teeteringhead]

Exactly so JJ, that's what they really mean by "beating the competition" .... :(

[BEagle]

However, when even SASO goes out of his way to congratulate you on your Spec Rec and still nothing happens, it's hard not to be disillusioned....

:confused:

[Bertie Thruster]

..............blimey....I got my scraper after just one spec rec.

My station secondary duty that year (the only secondary duty I had ever done) was station audit board and I didn't have to do a single audit.

2 years before I had been called to Innsworth to be told it was unlikely I would ever be promoted, as my recent annual confidentials showed too much 'red ink' ( for example: my "1" for loyalty, scored from the Sqn Cdr, had been changed to a "9" by the Stn Cdr)

[themightyimp]

for example: my "1" for loyalty, scored from the Sqn Cdr, had been changed to a "9" by the Stn Cdr Is that what you call left of-arc and right-of-arc??? :p

Back on topic. Has LMBI seen the times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6917297.ece)today??

[Bertie Thruster]

Is that what you call left of-arc and right-of-arc???

Sqn Cdr was later dismissed from the Service. Stn Cdr became ACAS.

[JessTheDog]

How about RAuxAF?

I PVRd five years ago, have a new career now, although nostalgia creeps in occasionally.

[Charlie Time]

Is it me or is nostalgia not what it used to be?

[The Gorilla]

I get nostalgia from time to time, I find that a brief lie down in a dark room prevents it from becoming a migraine!

For those who really are considering going back in read the sunday times thread and seek urgent counselling!

If you do go back in you have to come back out again eventually you know!!
:ouch: