several general PPL questions

[stevoneil]

hi guys n gals i have some questions you may be able to answer for me regarding attaining my PPL.

Two years ago i first started working towards my ppl and got the met exam in the bag along with 8 lessons at shoreham airport uk but on my way to my 9th lesson my car engine blew up which i am still repaying. The passion for flying has stayed with me and although i am still bearing the financial burden of my previous problems i am determined to persue my life ambition.

I am obviously looking to attain my licence on a budget so the cheapest option will most certainly be the best. Continuing at my old school in shoreham is not an option because i got passed between 3 instructors in 8 lessons. plus the cost of course

here are what i THINK are my best options and some clarity/direction on them would be appreciated.

1)do the whole package thing in SA or FL on an intensive course with medical and exams in the UK before.

2) do the exams and medical here then book for one or two weeks worth of JAA lessons in FL/SA and come back here to finish up and take the test

2)pay a friend of a friend who is unqualified as an instructor the fuel costs in the uk to gain experience to the point of first solo and then finish up in FL/SA or here (is this even legal?)

3)keep looking for some smaller schools out there in sweden or iceland that can accomodate the JAA at a better price who speak english....surely??

Anyone who can add something constructive to the mix would be greatfully received.

PS
when i first started learning i bought flight simulator x with the local airport add on pack thinking it would be useful in learning but i stopped using it thinking i wasnt getting anything from it because the two experiences were too differnt. has anyone managed to use FSX successfully to aid learning?

[BackPacker]

1)do the whole package thing in SA or FL on an intensive course with medical and exams in the UK before.

2) do the exams and medical here then book for one or two weeks worth of JAA lessons in FL/SA and come back here to finish up and take the test

Both good options. Remember that you need an FAA class 3 medical to fly solo in the US. Plus an M1 visa and TSA clearance. Some medical examiners are dual authorized, so they can give you a JAA class 2 and an FAA class 3 in one go.

There are no JAA flight schools in SA. If you do your training/exam there, you face a conversion process when coming back. Read the fine print on the SA websites!

2)pay a friend of a friend who is unqualified as an instructor the fuel costs in the uk to gain experience to the point of first solo and then finish up in FL/SA or here (is this even legal?)

If your friend only has a PPL, then you paying him the bulk of the direct costs of the flight would be illegal. He is required to pay at least an equal share of the direct costs of the flight. Furthermore, you need to have 45 hours logged, 25 of which are with an instructor. Flying with him won't add anything to your logbook

3)keep looking for some smaller schools out there in sweden or iceland that can accomodate the JAA at a better price who speak english....surely??

Jerez in Spain trains a lot of foreign folks and doesn't seem too expensive. And AFAIK the whole thing there is in English. Might be worth checking that out. But going to Iceland or Sweden and do the whole PPL there might well mean that you are to take the ground exams in Icelandic or Swedish.

when i first started learning i bought flight simulator x with the local airport add on pack thinking it would be useful in learning but i stopped using it thinking i wasnt getting anything from it because the two experiences were too differnt. has anyone managed to use FSX successfully to aid learning?

X-Plane and FSX are games, first of all. You cannot use them to learn how to control an aircraft, particularly not at the extremes of the envelope (stalls, spins, x-wind landings). But they're good for training procedures, instrument flights, radio navigation, working with checklists and a few other things. So they can be a valuable addition to your training but you've got to be careful about what you're going to use them for.

[stevoneil]

thanks for the informative reply. If i did the groundschoo before i went would it be recognised by an icelandic/ swedish (any other) european school? and if so does anyone have an idea as to which european school is cheapest? i did see an icelandic school offering the PPL which converted to about 750 pounds in uk money but they didnt reply to my email and i cant imagine its true unless the currency conversion is crazy at the moment.

[BackPacker]

Groundschool is not a requirement, at least not in the UK, so it's irrelevant whether this is recognized or not. But the PPL exams are country-specific so if you do all the ground exams in the UK, I can't imagine the Icelandic authorities recognizing that.

Something else. I'm a bit worried about your desire to find the cheapest solution possible. You do realize that after the 8000-15000 euro PPL you've got to spend somewhere between 1500 and 2000 euros per year minimum, just to keep reasonably current and safe? If you're so severely budget-limited, why try to obtain a PPL at all?

Depending on the answer to that question, you might be better off doing a Microlight NPPL, or maybe gliding.

[foxmoth]

I see you are in Chi, I know GFS is very pricey but you could also try Hampshire Aeroplane Club (http://www.hampshireaeroplaneclub.co.uk/)
Who I think you will find a bit more reasonable:ok:

[englishal]

If you are on a tight budget then there is no other option other than the USA or SA, and I'd vote for the USA. I wouldn't even bother doing a JAA PPL (or whatever it is called now) as you don't need one to fly in the UK in a G reg, but just do the FAA PPL. You can always convert later on when your finances improve.

The FAA PPL has no issue fees associated with it, no re-issue fees, nor is it hard to keep current and you could in theory not fly for 10+ years, then do a Biennial Flight Review with an FAA FI to revalidate it (and obviously any nescessary training that entails). You wouldn't have to sit a flight test with an examiner.

As far as costs, you'd be looking at (based on Long Beach Flying Club's price list and C152):

35 hrs x $78 aeroplane = $2730
25 hrs x $50 instructor = $1250
28 x $43 hotel
1 x $600 flight
1 x $300 flight test
1 x $90 ground exam
0 x landing fees

Your current time would count towards the total which is why I say 35 hrs.

$6174 which in today's money = £3682 and 1 months "holiday"....

Good luck :ok:

[BackPacker]

Need to add about $200-300 for the M-1 visa and TSA clearance. But otherwise a very good proposition.

[stevoneil]

that does indeed sound great infact a no brainer but if the FAA PPL is accepted here so widely then what is so crucial about the JAA licence? would local clubs sniff at it and turn their backs? there must be some good reason why florida advertise training to JAA PPL standard?

[BackPacker]

On an FAA PPL you can fly a G-reg, because the ANO/CAA allows it. But the same principle is not necessarily true in other JAA countries.

For me, flying a PH-reg, I needed a JAA license. FAA won't work.

[papa600]

when i first started learning i bought flight simulator x with the local airport add on pack thinking it would be useful in learning but i stopped using it thinking i wasnt getting anything from it because the two experiences were too differnt. has anyone managed to use FSX successfully to aid learning?

Microsoft FSX is of little use in learning to fly a SEP aircraft you need to do this for real.

However if you want to learn how to fly a B737, Airbus A320, Emb 190 its a piece of cake - I fly them all in between real sorties in my span can - its a hell of alot easier than navigating a C172 around the Scottish countryside ... of course the bus and boeing drivers will have you believe its only a game :ok:

[Jofm5]

If I recall correctly...

With an FAA Licence you can fly a G-Reg Plane but only in the UK.

With an FAA Licence and an N-Reg plane you can fly anywhere in JAA Land and of course the USA.

With a JAA-PPL licence you can fly an N Reg aircraft in the USA or your home country.

Plenty of groups run N-Reg aircraft but if your planning to fly on an FAA ticket be prepared to constrain your flying to the UK if its a G-Reg group or rental.

I think the above is the rule of thumb, I am sure it will be corrected if not.

[BackPacker]

With an FAA Licence you can fly a G-Reg Plane but only in the UK.

No. The UK ANO defines an implicit validation of any ICAO PPL (& higher) for flight on a G-reg, but only up to PPL privileges (private flight only). This validation is valid worldwide.

With an FAA Licence and an N-Reg plane you can fly anywhere in JAA Land and of course the USA.

Anywhere in the world in fact. It's the country of registry of the aircraft that defines the license requirements of the PIC on that aircraft, and under ICAO this combo is accepted worldwide. (At least, PPL and up. It's not automatically true for lesser licenses such as the NPPL although sometimes you can get individual waivers or there's a bilateral agreement for this.)

With a JAA-PPL licence you can fly an N Reg aircraft in the USA or your home country.

No. To fly an N-reg you need an FAA license. There is no implicit validation like flying a G-reg on an FAA license. Instead, there's a formalized validation process which results in what's commonly called an FAA "piggyback" license, which is based on your JAA PPL. And this 'based on' FAA license is then valid for flight on an N-reg worldwide.

[B2N2]

Private Pilot (http://www.eaa-fly.com/Training/ppl/ppl.html#500) has a good offer right now.