Shall I keep trying?

[CRX]

Would very much appreciate any advise that can be given.....
I am a twenty seven year old ATPL holder, in current employment (LHS Turboprop) with around three thousand hours total. Very much want to go mil. Due to age the RAF aren't interested, however I am very keen to try the Fleet Air Arm (Being approx. 1 year too old for them). I have sent my details to Rosyth (HMS Caledonia) and after a couple of weeks received a 'negative' from them due to my age. I feel I have a lot to offer, which should offset my 'geriatric tendancies' and would like to get a second opinion. Should I continue to badger them or will this only succeed in antagonising those at the top. Would very much appreciate comments from those in the know, particularly current FAA folks. I have the support of a Rear Admiral who has listened to my case with interest. Will it happen or am I chasing an impossible task?
Ta in advance.
CRX.

Ps: Feel free to dump me in 'wannabes' if this is inappropriate here!

[tarquin]

You could always try the powers that be i the RN that they still allow current aircrew to re-tread to differnt a/c tyoes and skills (Obs to Trained Monkey) at the late age of 28. Quote the Obs who went into SHAR pipeline at that age.

[Oggin Aviator]

.... or the Sea King Obs who passed training but was sick all the time cos he couldn't look out the window so he was restreamed into pilot training. Unfortunately he did not make it through, but not for being sick anymore :eek: :eek:

These were extremely rare cases, each with their own specific circumstances. It probably won't happen again ... (well it probably will but only once in a blue moon).

Good Luck to the Obs on SHAR BFT, your old Squadron are following your progress keenly. Talk to you at the other end of the radio ! :)

[tarquin]

Oggin Aviator,
You and I both know that the SHAR pipeline is still "available" provided you fulfil certain (unmentionable) criteria. Would go for it myself but age and a healthy respect for flying around Safe Single in what is to be the best radar platform in the UK ORBAT has resticted my lust for the freedom of the fixed wing and the single cummerbund of the Stovvie world.

[Oggin Aviator]

Meritus,

Surely its 2 cummerbunds ! Or is it just one that is reversible every 2 yrs ?

(you could actually say that about our Sqn cummerbunds as well so we are no better)

[TimC]

Couldn't the Obs who got sick a lot go to RAF Henlow (at least I think that's the place) to do the barfman course of desensitisation?

Nearly forgot - CRX, I know a 24.5 year old who starts IOT tomorrow, and he's going pilot (git). Seems a bit silly to me that they won't even consider your case. Have you tried a whisper in the ear of someone of air rank?

Good luck.

[ 11 August 2001: Message edited by: TimC ]

[hmm nice flaps]

Personally I think that you have no chance CRX. Harsh but fair I feel:
I also disagree with TimC and I think that this is the only decision the Navy can make. If they alllow one person in two years over the age limit then it would create a precedent which would just not be fair game for anyone else slightly over the age limit.
At 27 you will be two years past the maximum age limit upon entry into BRNC, as you will have to go through the flying aptitudes and AIB pipeline; your next realistic entry would probably be April 2002. I am 25 have recently and have just been told by the final selection commitee that although I passed AIB and aptitudes due to the greater number of succesful candidates to places I will not be able to enter as a pilot.
:mad: :mad: I can not try again next year as I will be over the age limit. I have been offered ATC but whetherI will accept this remains to be decided.
:confused:
:( Anyway best of luck to you whatever they decide!

[Mach the Knife]

CRX
Give up if that is your way! If so, I doubt you would have passed the training, even with your flying experience.
My advice would be to approach the RAF/RN (which ever you really want to join) and each time you get turned down, re-apply to the next person up the Command chain. You were probably turned down by a jobsworth recruiter "it says no in my AP, therefore, the answer is no" Write as many letters as is needed, you can fly we need Pilots. This is a special case, it is no good asking a minion, ask the guys who write the rules. Phrases like "will commit to X years" and "Tell me I'm not good enough (after a flight test of course) not that I'm too old" may help. Give up only when you nolonger want to succeed.
Don't worry about putting noses out of joint, what have you got to lose? At the moment you are not where you want to be, if you fail to get accepted after making every effort what have you lost? If you succeed - Wayhay, anyone you have upset will be posted before you get out of training.
ps there is a 37 yr old S/L Nav going through Pilot training right now, do you think he gave up the first, or countless, times he was turned down?
You may,of course, turn out to be a total nob, in which case you'd get chopped at Cranwell! Good Luck

[Megaton]

Also, a 37 yr old flt lt nav about to start pilot training next week. How old do you think he'll be before he reaches a sqn?

[Scorpius]

There is also a 36 year old Sqn Ldr fighter controller who is about to start full nav training!
CRX - as far as I am concerned you would be more than capable of sitting in the right seat of an E3D (AWACS) and absorb by osmoses how we do things - which in all honesty isn't that different to how every other 707 operator did things. The way the projected short fall of pilots is going - we seriously should not count out any avenues. Just beacause you didn't train in the military sausage factory doesn't mean you don't have something to offer. I say keep trying - Mach the Knife wrote some sound advice.

[hillsie]

CRX- If there is anything i've learnt in 11 years in this chicken**** organisation it it the RN is run by Fish head idiots who couldnt tie their own shoes with out written authorization...in triplicate! I had to go all the way to the ADMIRALTY BOARD with a minor pay complaint before any action was taken. I also know that there are a few people joining the FAA from odd backgrounds and rightly so. With PVRs at an all time high the RN are desperate to get aircrew, but you have to ask yourself if you want to join an organisation that is imploding.....join the RAF, most FAA pilots are. Most importantly, never give up!

[FoxMike]

CRX,

You may want to speak to the desk officers at PTC Insworth direct if you are looking for a way in to the RAF.

You have more experience than just about any other applicant who will be going through the factory and your age is no where near as old as it seems.

There is an officer in Nav trg at Cranwell at the mo who has just transferred from the RE in the army (same age)

There are many officers at JETFS, DHFS and OTP who are over 28. Admittedly they mostly have 3-7 yrs service in other parts of the service but they don't have 3000hrs.

If rotary interests you it may be worth speaking to the Army Air Corps via MCM Div in Glasgow or SAAvn at Middle Wallop. You are not to old for Sandhurst and whilst this will not guarantee a place as a pilot if you want in it may be a way.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Your best bet is probably the RAF for multi's if you can find a sympathetic ear. There is no bias here as I'm green not blue.

Good Luck

:eek: :eek:

[9g]

Out of interest CRX, what do you want? FJ, multi or rotary?

[CRX]

Thanks all for the replies so far. Some being quite direct and to the point! As a quick background for those that are interested I am not in the habit of giving up, I have been fighting this particular battle for over six months so far, with other history before that. Got a flying schoarship in 1991 and not accepted at OASC in 94, invited back in 95, but got offered fully sponsored commercial placement in July 95. Left with a choice of either accepting that fantastic offer or turning it down for another go at OASC in late 95. Signed the line for the commercial stuff and have had a fantastic six years. Bond now expired and can leave without problem.
I have approached the RAF at various levels, starting with head of OASC (A Gp Cpt), then trying Innsworth with the support of my MP. Getting the same answers constantly that at the age of 27 I am too old for the current policy of recruiting school leavers, and if they were to take me on I would be displacing a younger individual 'who can offer greater return of service'. This was from an AVM, and appeared to be a full stop to the quest.
As far as the RN is concerned I have written to Rosyth so far, and am in the process of writing to Commodore of Naval Aviation next. (letter by the end of the week if you are reading this,Sir!)
My preference is very much FJ, although I am not adverse to any other military flying.
It appears that the RAF are very willing to acknowledge my determination and training potential but this is not enough to offset the couple of years I have exceeded the published limits.
Anyway back to it.......

[oldpinger]

Recruiting hat on, how about the ADF over here in Australia? The ADF are now taking pilots up to the age of around 48 for Navy and Army, RAAF are a bit lower I think but probably getting bullied by the rest soon.
Heard recently a 30+ yo just started rotary course with over 5000hrs f/w

Worth a thought.....

North Atlantic vs Pacific Ocean......hmmm tough one that!

ps VERY short of pilots in this part of the world

[ 16 August 2001: Message edited by: oldpinger ]

[ 16 August 2001: Message edited by: oldpinger ]

[jet jones]

Well I am surprised you havent gotten anywhere...I think it is going to take perseverance...I am slightly younger than you are and no where as experienced. But not young enough to qualify for pilot. I am going in as a flg ops officer and I intend to continue my training..once i feel i am qualified enough then i am going to approach the powers that be and bug them till the cows come home. Hopefully, i would have had a few years in the service by then. The Raf is actually short of pilots. This is no rumour. If any one thinks i am dreaming please do post your ideas.