Scramble!! Scramble!!

[swashplate]

Hi All! Just a quick question..

I understand that you keep Tornados at RAF Leuchars on Quick Reaction Alert. These aircraft are housed in a shelter near the end of the runway. If scrambled, they can just start up, taxi straight onto the runway and zoom away. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

But what happens if there is a tailwind on that runway? <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

Do you just accept the tailwind and take off anyway...? <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

Or would you have to quickly taxi to the other end and turn around so that you are taking off into the wind?

But would that not take valuable time? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Just interested......

[Arty Hug]

Hmmm, gotta wonder why the hell you'd like to know the answer to that one....

http://www.minorannoyance.net/~spin/Smilies/contrib/owen/fett.gif

[swashplate]

As I said, I was just interested. Not having a go at anyone...

I've seen documentaries of this and they always just taxi on and take off. I just wondered what would happen if the wind was in the wrong direction.

[Flatus Veteranus]

In the Vulcan B2 you often accepted 5-10Kts tailwind because ATC had not got round to changing the runway. If (God forbid) there had ever been an operational scramble off QRA (and all that was implied by that!), I am sure you would have bust the locking wires on the thrust limiters, firewalled the throttles, and you would have been off before anyone could even say "V1"!

[BEagle]

...or rather "DECISION"!!

[stillin1]

Given a small tailwind = accept it adjust the speeds and go. Large tailwind = go to the other runway (peacetime rules). No-sh"t scramble = just go for it and get the job done.. ."Define large and small tail-wind"? SHAN'T!!

Edited 4 spelllinge

[ 07 February 2002: Message edited by: stillin1 ]</p>

[swashplate]

Thanks chaps for all the interesting replies. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

Sorry if this is 'National Secrets' stuff, I did not realise that at first, but now you come to mention it....... <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Do you want me to delete this?

[fobotcso]

Nah, don't bother to delete; you've already been identified and categorised. When the ballon goes up, you'll be one of the first against the wall.

I usually jump on threads that are too "inquisitive" but this is motherhood stuff.

The surface wind rarely changes unexpectedly. If the actual or forecast headwind component becomes critical, then the cabs can just taxi to the other end for the period of standby.

Ground speed for tyre integrity, Take-off distance available/required, direction of travel after take-off all have a bearing. Just like any other aircraft, really. Getting off safely is the highest priority; No point in even starting if you're going to write yourself off on T/O and risk failing the Operation Mission.

Oh, and if it's Sunday. don't forget the local noise abatement society!

[swashplate]

OK fobotsco!!!

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[Greg Baddeley]

It's hardly secret stuff any more....I was reading about the Lightning QRA's at Leuchars in 'Aeroplane' a couple of months back; good story about one guy being on approach (into wind for a normal landing) when the QRA aircraft shot past him in the opposite direction, unannounced! Needs must when the devil rides, or when the Bear flies - towards your coastline!

[lightningmate]

And there is always the actual happening, also at Leuchars, when a 'Q' Lightning was 'scrambling' in an easterly direction along the runway and a Javelin landed heading westerly.

Quick thinking Javelin pilot transmitted 'you go right and I'll go left'.

They still missed each other.

lm

[Qwin T Senshall]

Normal rules are, of course, set aside when you. .have to do it for a film crew.

Sods law says that when you have to get off sharpish to look good for the telly - you have a tailwind.

Only wimps need to taxi to the other end!

So you f*** off in fine pitch, bung in the burners,. .laconically note the 20 knot tailwind rising to 25 and the f***ing starboard burner blows out just. .after Vstop.

Did you know that you can get a 56 000 pound. .Phantom airborne by puckering your arse as if you were practicing for the Olympic Freestyle Arse Puckering Finals. (For those who are unused to puckering - imagine soup plate - sixpence, soup plate - sixpence)

Jesus wants me for a sunbeam - but not that day!

If anybody wants to know about fear (and very quiet cockpits) send your address on the back of. .a used £50 note to...

message ends with garbled sounds assumed anaprop

[ 09 February 2002: Message edited by: Qwin T Senshall ]</p>

[ORAC]

Now if you want pucker factor, try it out of the shed without a runway!

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/fighter/f100d-15.jpg

[fobotcso]

QTS, that would be the day you "learned about flying" I suppose. :)

[Qwin T Senshall]

fobotsco

It was one of the days...

but I think I learned something about show biz too!

ciao!!

Qwin

[ 10 February 2002: Message edited by: Qwin T Senshall ]</p>

[tony draper]

Do you have a link to that photograph Mr ORAC please.. .I know another site where they would like to see that.. . <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[Charlie Luncher]

Gents we all know the truth.

Since the introduction of the F3 the "Q" was done by the biggest fighter in the world and continues in its duties today from Ice Station Kilo.. . . . :) <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[lamer]

Whole bunch of videos relating to zero length takeoffs. (scroll down)

<a href="http://www.airandspacemagazine.com/asm/web/site/QT/BarnLaunch.html" target="_blank">http://www.airandspacemagazi ne.com/asm/web/site/QT/BarnLaunch.html</a>

regards

[ 10 February 2002: Message edited by: lamer ]</p>

[ORAC]

<a href="http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/fighter/f100d-15.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/research/fighter/f100d-15.jpg</a>

[fobotcso]

Tony D, for future reference, if you right click on the graphic you are interested in and click on "properties" you will find the URL.

[Kaa050]

Wow.......

That makes my 7 1/2 min scramble in the Falklands, from "Deep Sleep", seem pedestrian!

Still, We "Wazzed Kent" before I really woke up!

Scary really.

Oh, and I didn't give a funky fig for the "Tail Wind" (We fired up the left engine as we taxied!)

By the way: AG, You're an Arse.

Si, (My Nav) if you're out there, hope you are well, and enjoying life!!

Kaa

PS: AG if you ever get in my back seat, modify your attitude, or stand by to have it modified for you. <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[4Greens]

Try a cat shot! You are always into the wind.

[Foss]

jesus, great link. don't fancy that lamer. great bales of fire. etc <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[BEagle]

7 1/2 min? Bit tardy - we did scramble to crewroom to bus to distant parking spot to airborne in 7 minutes once. Nabbed a couple of Bears as well. And that was in a VC10K!!

Only kidding about being tardy - we really did get off within 7 minutes of the scramble message but we were wide awake and itching to go. 7 1/2 from sleep to airborne is quite a feat!!

[SixOfTheBest]

Mmmmm! Perhaps some sort of vectored thrust would negate the need for these sort of concerns. Tailwind, Shmailwind!

[Orpheus]

Hiya,
Sprog here.

One always gets a ''tailwind component within limits (or not)'' notice in the taxi instructions.
And there is always the 09 and the Balmullo Hill coupled with base at 300ft.

Has anyone flown with the Fighting cocks in the Zeppelin/Lightning/Javelin days? (Edit, ****** when you type faster then think...should be Leuchars based 23sg. Lightnings, 43sqd Zeppellins and 46sqd (I think) Javelins. All standing Bear Q at Luechars...Thanks lm.)
I would really have some questions about Buchan controlling and timing and intercepts of the Cuba run with the F-4. See I am working on my thesis (ADC related, extremely difficult intercepts with the Phantom on two examples the Israel Foxbat hunting in the seventies and the rather longish Leuchars based F4 Bear intercepts.)
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Drop a message or indication here, so I can private massage you.

[lightningmate]

43 Sqn - Lightnings? Javelins? Que??

lm

[uffington sb]

DD

That was at a secret air base not to far from Swaffham, unless its happened twice!

No R/T procedures. One GR1 from Dimbuster Sqn cleared for departure given green light from RWC, one GR1 from Dumbo Sqn not cleared for departure on opposite rwy, given red light by Landrover, but departs anyway (he was late). Dimbuster comes over the hill and sees Dumbo 12 o'clock, reciprocal heading, same level!!! Stays down and Dumbo takes off over the top. All exciting stuff.
But you're right, procedures were changed after that.

[ARXW]

Hi all,

Just a quick question on alerts:

Does the RAF have anything less than a 5min alert status, like a 2min readiness state? By that I mean pilots suited up, strapped in and waiting the call to scramble?

cheers

[Fire 'n' Forget]

Need to know principle I think......

If you dont know.........you dont need to, and I dont think anyone is going to say anything about current readiness states on here.