Another mate leaving..........

[horatio nelson]

Another top bloke is leaving your service at his option! A very experienced front-line flt cdr. His reasons are numerous but generally:
- Paid a small fortune to leave!
- Can't fly enough for the admin triv.
- Poor leadership at the top.
- Had enough of the PC/EO/IIP hypocrisy.
(Sound familiar?)

I remember reading a thread recently about the quality of some airline personnel. They have recruited a generation of our best operators as a result of our 'People are our best asset' line which is simply never backed-up. What will it take for someone, somewhere, to sort this out?
Is anything being done, if so, what?

.....Frustrated tax-payer sends........

[jayteeto]

Are you a journalist?

[Tigs]

Jayteeto,
Even if he is a journalist, he's painting a pretty accurate picture isn't he?

[This message has been edited by Tigs (edited 05 July 2001).]

[The Gorilla]

Seems like a typical day in the RAF, when will our airships take their heads of out the sand?? It will be the day El Presidente Blair wants to send 2 Sqns of fast jets abroad and we wont have any drivers to sit in them!! Explain that one away with yer IIp's.

Coming soon to a station near you, another Royal Air Farce Fiasco - Operation Budget Cuts.

[Tom Bell-Weed]

I agree with the sentiments so far expressed in this thread; we're not doing anything like enough to retain our key personnel. Currently on a det a long way from home but we're hearing rumours here that the RAF is actively trying to recruit experienced foreign nationals to join us. I know we and the Aussies have been poaching each others' guys for years, but is it the answer to our problems to have retired European pilots filling our empty cockpits? Or should we do more to retain the droves leaving for the usual reasons? I stress this is just a rumour we've heard here, but if anyone has heard any more please post it here.

[Suit]

Horatio,

A small part of my current job is aircrew placement, as a result of this I frequently find myself sat across a desk from ex or soon to be ex military aicrew who responded to an ad or just want to explore the waters on "the other side".

I must say that I am generally very impressed with the quality of the folk I interview, and that the organisation that they are leaving SHOULD be concerned.

HOWEVER............

Another part of my job involves me in some reasonably high level meetings and discussions with senior military folk about ongoing and potential support contracts.

I have to tell you that the one side has no idea or comprehension of how the other feels. This is rather good for me and my company but as a tax payer and ex- RAF type it is deeply disturbing. You have my sympathies believe me, despite my crossed swords from time to time with BEagle. I do believe that something at the very top is rotten, or something on the way there is.



------------------
If the suit fits.........

[TL Thou]

For Tom Bell Weed...

The RAF may turn to New Zealand to fill a current shortfall in experienced
fast jet pilots, it emerged today.
Some pilots in the former Royal New Zealand Air Force have become "surplus to
requirements'' due to changes made to undertake peacekeeping duties, Defence
Minister Adam Ingram said in a Commons written reply.

"Details of the personnel directly affected by the restructing have yet to be
released by the New Zealand Defence Staff,'' he said.
"The RAF are closely monitoring the evolving situation and senior British
officers have been in contact with their opposite numbers in Wellington to
highlight employment opportunities in the RAF,'' he said.

[Flatus Veteranus]

The USA seems to be sliding into recession, Germany is teetering on the brink. Odds-on it will go global. And a usual bellwether of bad economic news will be the cancellation by the airlines of options on new aircraft, a hold on the recuitment of new pilots, and indeed the laying-off of staff. PVR will suddenly become very unfashionable; we will hear much less bleating about the pay and general buggeration factor. And this site may become less boring in consequence.

------------------
presto digitate

[TRIMSHEET]

To F V

Thanks SIR,
Nice to see that Senior O's are talking to us, at least on this level.
Bye!!

[Flatus Veteranus]

You're welcome!

[Ed Winchester]

Deal with it.

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/boohoo.gif

[Problemchild]

Who mentioned the Airforce! I thought Horatio was a Naval type.You crabs mustn't assume military forum means RAF.

[Talking Baggage]

In the RN Lynx Fleet we currently have 4 (total) Aussie Pilots and Observers "on loan", along with a Dane, a Brazilian, a Frog, a further Aussie and usually a Yank on exchange. We now even have a Royal Marine on the books.

No Crabs though...........

Who says we're not open minded!

[Samuel]

Whoever wrote "Some pilots in the former Royal New Zealand Air Force", needs to resit English. The pilots in question are not former, as they have yet to be released, and the RNZAF is not former either! It will continue to exist, albeit without teeth.

As for the pilots themselves, they are really no different from you lot, in that they are well-trained, with similar ethos, and will be an asset to any air force.They. ike you, are marketable, and while some may choose Australia for the F18 and similar lifestyle, there are others who will opt for the RAF.Good on 'em

[BEagle]

What a shame another talented person is leaving. Soon there won't be anyone left between the ages of 38 and 50 except for those with several kids getting boarding school allowance and those who cannot find a civil airline job. The push and pull factors are combining and the RAF will soon end up as just a bunch of navigators writing e-mails to one another at this rate.

I admit to having crossed sword with 'Suit' on several occasions; however, I think we agree on the absurdity of PPP-run FSTA, for example. MFTS I still consider to be nothing more than a desperate clutching at straws by a morally and financially bankrupt MoD(Air); if 'Suit' and his colleagues end up making a healthy profit out of what is basically a public service, then the MoD will be paying through the nose for its own blunders. Sympathy? In the usual place 'twixt $hit and syphilis and closer to squadron leader than sorry!

[Brunel]

As ever, you've hit the nail on the head BEagle.

[D-IFF_ident]

I've got loads of kids, but I can think of no reason to stay-in past my 38 point. Of course, it's not necessarily my decision to stay anyway - their Airships at Jobbsworth would equally want me to serve beyond that.

[Didntdoit]

BEags

Ref the FSTA PPP, you forgot to mention that we will never get our tankers when we need them in "an emergency" (can someone define this?) because the USN will pay more.

Sorry, I'm reading too much other gen!

------------------
....wasn't there, you can't prove I did it!

[BEagle]

But aren't the USN already using an Irish mercenary company to provide AAR??? How's it going then, chaps?? Hmmm..........??

[L J R]

Time to leave?

[Ex F111]

LJR,

I did.

Joined a foreign Air Force. They were willing to negotiate, pity previous Air Force weren't.

[Didntdoit]

BEags

'Mercenaries' have 1 707 at the mo - FSTA consortium will have 'lots' of spare frames. Any money the USN are watching the competition with some interest.

Sorry - must stop reading. :rolleyes:

[Dan Winterland]

This is all sounding a bit familiar!

[Scorpius]

Whether or not the so called recession hits the airline industry is of no consequence to myself - I am leaving the Air Force at my fast approaching option point! I would have PVR'd if I had more time to do than I have. If I have to, I will pack shelves in Tesco's - but I cannot work for an organisation that relies heavily on the good will of its people to get by! The sad fact is that I'm not alone.

As for jobs outside - I have, Like many others, plenty of good contacts and already have tentative offers from interested parties; who find it hard to believe that the Air Force is not too bothered about pilot retention - or at least not actively doing something about it.

[UnderPowered]

If anyone has Sir Peter's e-mail, PLEEEEASE send him these pages.... :mad:

[The Mistress]

If you mean the same Sir Peter who was featured in the Mail on Sunday a few years ago for massively overspending on his quarter at Benson and the same Sir Peter who now spends £75,000 p.a. of public money on cooks, gardners and personal batting staff then sorry love, he's too busy living the good life to read this. He doesn't give a flying **** about you or your conditions.

[RVR800]

IMHO..

FV states a view shared by many airlines
and employers of pilots worldwide

i.e. Global Slowdown will result in an
'easing' of pilot recruitment problems
- economic down cycle and all that

The trouble with that view is that it is a gamble for the employers concerned e.g The RAF

This 'easing' of recruitment problems aint happening - even in the USA which has
talked its way into a (dubbya) recession
as a means of forcing through tax cuts..

The markets have bounced

RAF HR policies need revisiting .. ?

[Flatus Veteranus]

TM

Things haven't changed thatmuch! At Waddo in the '60s even the execs (of which, believe it or not, I was one) found it impossible to get even the most basic repairs/redecoration done to their quarters because the whole budget had been blown on the AOC's residence at Bawtry. Once to convert it to open-plan and then, when the next one moved in and wanted a separate dining room, to convert it back again. C'est la vie!

PS haven't sorted all these new "UBB" gizmos yet!

[ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: Flatus Veteranus ]

[CAVU]

I'll acquiesce to being heavily biased to the idea, but how about relying on stronger reserve forces?

In the US, the National Guard and USAF reserve provide an economical, but highly effective combat force. This defence structure also provides an option of retaining the services of qualified military pilots when they leave full time service.

Higher age limits mean that Reserve and Guard units can select pilot candidates who are already qualified proffesional pilots. This reduces training risks and keeps pilots flying regularly between reserve duty.

I would love to join the RN again, but only in a flying capacity.

[The Mistress]

Flat Vet

I appreciate that kind of thing is not new. My post was merely to warn the chap before me that he was looking in totally the wrong direction for help/sympathy. If UnderPowered wants me to expand on that he is quite welcome to e-mail me.

On the quarters side I don't think several wrongs make a right. Why, in 2001, should well qualified professionals have to live in slums whilst a handful of families try to recreate the days of the Raj? As someone on this site so rightly says, "if you keep doing what you've always done ..."

A quick flick through the threads here will reveal discontent with conditions/equipment/housing/pay all of which eat away at morale. There have been massive cuts to the defence budget. Why then squander what little you have on fripparies? I've heard the argument of 'different budgets' far too many times. It's boll*x.

I want my tax £'s to be used to defend my country, not to put gold leaf on some snotty tart's bathroom tiles!

[navbag]

BEagle,
Sorry a bit slow picking up on your comments from a while ago about the only people being left in the RAF will be navs. Guess my seat and I'm leaving on my option after PMA have let me down for the last time. I know of many other navs doing the same. I have been surprised at just how many non airline jobs there are out there and am actually finding it difficult to choose!! so navs take heart!
There is a critical shortage of all aircrew esp. FJ navs and PMA need to address it pdq. Why not ask those who are leaving why they are leaving for starters?...Or is that admitting defeat?? :(

[BEagle]

Quite right mate! Best of luck outside, sorry that HMFC has let you down. But are Binnsworth really the villains here? Or is the problem deeper rooted?