COMPULSORY FITNESS FOR RAF

[SACSmith]

I think that the RAF should make all personnel (excluding those medically down-graded & maybe those over 40(?)) take part in fitness training, under the supervision of a PTI, on at least a monthly basis.

Although I was quite derogatory to the Army in my initial thread, I have to take my hat of to them with regards to fitness. At a certain RAF camp, the Army element used to go for runs every week, which made us crabs look rather unhealthy.

I’ve seen quite a few people in the RAF who could be described as obese, and I can’t imagine how they get away with it. How they pass their fitness test is beyond me (actually, I know of several people who haven’t done their fitness test for years). Furthermore, lets not forget the negative PR which such an appearance would emit; hardly the image of a fit fighting force. And we’ve all seen new LAC’s posted in, all nice and fit from recruit training, who start to become NAAFI cowboys, and within a few months, they have turned into lardy-boys (or girls).

People may say: ‘we’re far too busy to take part in compulsory fitness, we couldn’t afford the loss of manpower’, but I’m sure everyone will agree, the benefits of such an initiative would far out-weigh the slight over-stretch. Gp Capt PEd, are you reading this?. . <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[BEagle]

Back in the '70s I was a fully paid-up member of 'athletics anonymous' at Scampton - if anyone wanted to commit sport, they could phone us up and be talked into going to the pub instead.

Having, like most of my contemporaries, completed an unbroken series of flying tours to the age of err, quite ancient, and maintained A1G1Z1 until needing to wear corrective spectacles about 4 years ago, I haven't actually ever seen much essential need for so-called 'compulsory sport' amongst RAF aircrew - either you could do the job or you couldn't. If you were a total lardar$e, your peers and others would take the pi$$ to such an extent that you'd be shamed into doing something about it. But that's probably called 'harrassment' nowadays by the Thought Police.

But having to cover for a jockstrapper who's broken something or who has bug.gered off yet again to play with bouncy balls for the stn was always a problem. Good luck to those who do like to play competitive sport, of course, but for f*ck's sake don't expect everyone else to enjoy it! We only need to be fit enough to do our job - when we're forever strapped for cash (sounds like something enjoyed by Tory politicians!) why devote yet more time and funding for something that, to be totally honest, just isn't strictly essential. Fit enough for the annual PME is surely adequate - it certainly was for about the first 75 years of the RAF (and no, I don't have personal experience of all of them!)

[RoboAlbert]

Is being able to climb up to the flight deck, without wheezing, really fit enough to do our job? Me thinks not. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[Art Field]

In 38 years as aircrew the only time I was unfit to fly for any length of time was thanks to a rugby injury. Like Beagle I've stood in for many a jock strapper and as a planner had to listen to the moans of the good old squadron shags standing in for the sports injured. I've also suffered under the influence of the fitness freak survival fanatics whose muscles are considerably bigger than there brains and can't see a dangerous situation for the trees or come to that the waves. I could say I've seen some sportsmen that look a lot scruffier in uniform than the average. Keeping oneself in fair trim is a lot different from being forced into the gym to satisfy the questionable dictates of those for whom fitness can become an obsession.

[Loreto]

Can anyone quote the source document, and sponsor, that states that aircrew must pass an annual fitness in order to fly?

[RoyalRock]

I think we all agree that physical fitness is a good thing and it is the responsibility of the individual to maintain the level required to do his/her job effectively. The type of fitness required to be a gunner is totally different to the type required by, for example, movers (long hours and lots of shifting things i believe).

However, regarding aircrew being fit enough to leap like a gazelle into the seat and pole for a while is not enough. What about the fitness required when it all goes horribly wrong and you end up on the ground, minus kit, and sausage-side to boot?

Aircrew they have to complete their mission (whatever that may be). This could well involve skill at arms, NBC, survival bits and all the other things associated with that subject.

A key element to all of the above is physical fitness. I don't mean to imply that all aircrew should be marathon runners but maybe a weekly hour down the gym booting a ball about on a Friday before happy hour might be a scheme. Informal training is a laugh.

Go on-give it a go!!

RoyalRock-Stn Sports Prevention Officer

[WE Branch Fanatic]

OK....so lets try to reach some sort of agreement

Sport per se should NOT be mandatory. BUT.....

EVERYONE in the forces (be they RAF pilot, Navy diver or Army chef) has to be fit. after all, there is no such thing as a "non combatant" serviceman/woman. In the absolute worst case scenario EVERYONE has to be able to pick up a weapon and FIGHT.

Hence the need for fitness. Also being fit will help you cope with the rigours of service life. Most members of the frorces have stressful jobs....something that regular exercise will help them deal with.

[D-IFF_ident]

WE Branch Fanatic, . .I think a few Medics and Religious leaders may take issue with that...

[Chris Kebab]

Tell that to the extremely cuddly Harrier pilot who evaded so admirably during the Falkland War. A considerable amount of Yorkshire bitter stored as body reserves came in extremely handy. Mind you he had slimmed down a bit when he flew during the Gulf (not Harriers BTW).

[Shouting Rad-Alt]

I thought that was all part of the job! I mean covering for someone whilst they represented the Stn, RAF and God forbid their country!!(Beagle) Sac Smith is close to the mark; if not a little blunt. . .The comment made by others as to when things go pear shaped sausage side is pretty accurate. I know that I wont be hanging around to wait for some of my crew!! Too many Happy Hrs and PIES!

[Green Bottle]

WEBF . ."In the absolute worst case scenario EVERYONE has to be able to pick up a weapon and FIGHT.

Hence the need for fitness." What level do you think pilots should be up to? Same as a Para? In which case you will end up with more of the injuries mentioned above.

While I agree with the sentiment to some degree if you're fit enough to do your job, then you're fit enough I do see the merit in encouraging fitness. I think the RAF has gone down the correct route in that it is encouraging people to get fitter and healthier rather than the Army method of compulsory PT (which works for the Army).

[Blacksheep]

I were (and still am) a cuddly ground bod. I couldn't get round an army assault course even when I were a sprog, and haven't deliberately run anywhere since I walked past Henderson/Groves gate for the last time. But I have always been able to do my job and that includes taking up arms. At my peak I could hit you in a vital area from twelve hundred yards away, ten times out of ten and I'd still have no difficulty in taking your head off at a quarter of a mile. So whats all this being fit to take up arms nonsense then? As long as you can run from 600 yards to 100 yards, firing as you go, that's all that the RAF needs. The army's need for physical fitness is different. For most of them, the job involves walking vast distances carrying everything including the kitchen sink. Not to mention the ammunition. But the Air Force are specialists not infantrymen.

Churchill once slagged us off when Our Airships asked for army units to provide airfield defence as he quite rightly saw that the problem was merely one of arming the airmen. But we don't need to march hundreds of miles, we only need to be able to dig in and shoot. So sign up for shooting and get down the range, and I'm not talking aout that piffling little station twenty five yard range either. That's a more appropriate way to get fit to do our jobs than running round in circles training a cardio-vascular system to do things it will never be called upon to do in real life.

Escape and evasion is another matter, but it involves a different kind of fitness. Mental fitness and perserverance. Many men made it back to their own lines despite being wounded and thus grossly unfit, while others much fitter than they were taken prisoner. Leave physical fitness to the fanatics and get on with the job.

**********************************. .Through difficulties to the cinema

[Busta]

Sprot on purpose

Yeugh!

Few things matter very much, most things don't matter at all.

[DuckDogers]

Interesting topic this with several points that need raising.

Firstly, is the fitness level in the RAF of a high enough standard? In my opinion it is woefully short of the mark for both sexes; with the female test being some what of a standing joke. Those who fail this poor excuse of a fitness test, an everalarming number need to be dealt with. I for one was never a superathlete at school and through university, but when i applied for commissioning i got my ass down the gym and did fitness, cardio-vascular and strength work, something i continue to do well towards the end of my first tour. What is needed is a return to the good old 1.5 mile run with target times, or an appropriate alternative, that is tested before even being accepted into the RAF. Comments welcome.

Secondly, why has, like many threads, this one turned into an aircrew bashing post? Granted certain aircrew mates are on the larger side but look at your average techy and adminer. Branch/trade is irrelevent to this thread and we need to deal with the issue that is, a) many of those being recruited today are physicall unfit, b)how to educate those who are unfit; something that the PEd Flt at my unit have successfully encouraged, c) self motivation!!!!!!!!

Finally of note to those interested. When Typhoon enters service, pardon the deliberate error, the pilot will be issued with a gym card that will record the FORMAL gym/fitness sessions that they undertake as every Sqn or wing will have a dedicated Typhoon fitness facility. So at the end of the day no record of following the programme EQUALS no sortie.

At the end of the day age/athletisism is irrelevent, self-esteem and pride in wearing the uniform should be enough.

A can of worms open here perhaps so on goes the body armour, as it will be for real at the end of march. Replies anticipated...................

[D-IFF_ident]

So what of the bad-back brigade?

Exempt fitness test = exempt being allowed to fly?

Or the over 50 brigade?

Not able to shuttle run like a 21 year old = compulsory retirement?

[DP Harvey]

Diferent trades require different standards of fitness. If the RAF requires all trades to meet a trade specific standards then so be it. They should then schedule me for a regular period in the gym during normal working hours. Its their time and they can, within reason, tell me what to do and where to do it.

But I'll be blowed if I'm going to give up Corrie time running around the peri-track to meet some arbitrary fitness test. Yes, I am "in date and fit" and give the impression of a good attitude towards it......somehow

[MajorMadMax]

Some comments from your USAF brethren, we have a ridiculous fitness test that is comprised of a short ride on a stationary bicycle while some yabbo monitors our heart rate. Said yabbo is not a medical type but some poor admin yaboo who just happened to be the lowest ranking squattie in the office.

Now being Americans, we have to be fitness freaks (we invented jogging, didn’t we??). Thus it is not uncommon to see a fairly good crowd at the gym during the day. Yes, I said during the duty day, when many of us get over to do our workouts. But a larger crowd still avoids any physical training whatsoever, with some claims of being too busy at work (funny, they always find time for a cigarette break, though...). My point is this, our standards and methods of testing are a joke as they are randomly enforced. It is quite obvious who makes an effort to stay in reasonable shape and who doesn’t. Whether you can run a marathon or life 300 pounds over your head is not the issue...the issues are whether you can perform your job in a combat/increased ops tempo environment or not, and how you look in uniform. The first in important as it is our job, and if you wheeze out just doing your daily grind, than you will fall short when it comes time to work 100 straight 12+ hour days. The second part is the professional image of the armed forces. It is hard to keep John Q. Public’s confidence level up when a bunch of doughnut-eating slobs in sloppy uniforms are running around.

So, no, we in the Air Corps don’t need to be as fit as the paras or Marines, but there is still a need for physical fitness. Beside, it is you life we are talking about here, and if you want to spend it tubbing out and wheezing every time you climb a set of stairs, and smoking cigarettes like they are going out of style, then it is your choice. But when these poor habits mean I have to pick up where you falter, then it becomes OUR problem. I have yet to see pure individualism in the military, we are all a part of a bigger team that depends on each one of us. When you fail to uphold your part, then the rest of the team has to work harder to make up the slack.

Think about it...

Cheers!

[Ralf Wiggum]

Totally agree with sports afternoons and fitness stuff. Just give me the time to do it during working hours and I'll join in.

[GipsyMagpie]

And how we all laugh at Eurofighter crews as they realise that there is going to be an established PTI on each squadron to look after their fitness to fly.... teee heee much more fun (alcohlic) to be rotary

[Flatus Veteranus]

The fitness fanatics on my FTS course are all dead of "natural causes"; so are the sports freaks who were on my first squadron (mostly ex-Cranners). We pi$$-heads whose athletic ambitions were no more than to be able to climb into the cockpit and pull the wings off the aircraft in terms of 'g' all seem to soldier on! Distant vision and 'g' threshold were the only factors that separated the men from the boys. :)

[Captain Kirk]

Wow - how many tangents?!

SACSmith started with 'I think that the RAF should make all personnel take part in fitness training' - let's look at the broader issue than the narrow 'I can drink beer, smoke tabs and still pull 6G' nonsense!

Diet and fitness are inextricably linked to education and lifestyle. There are not that many obese aircrew - there are none on my station. There are a lot of medically obese and LAZY young airmen. At my last fitness test, we were barely beyond the fast walk stage when 2 of the youngest (and overweight) lads just gave up. I was not so much shocked at their lack of fitness at their lack of determination - they had not even broken out in a sweat or started puffing. They just did not like it and stopped.

MajorMadMax hits the nail on the head - we are a TEAM. One person's problem will invariably impact on us all. We are a fighting force liable to be deployed to any number of inhospitable situations and be expected to function efficiently. The 'I can do my job' blah may be true when that entails waddling in from the married patch for 8 hours of sitting behind a desk but will it hold water under more stressful circumstances? Can Cpl Fats remain alert after long days in a hot/cold working environment? Will Sgt Lard be able to drag his colleagues out of a burning building after a car bomb attack? These are very real scenarios that we are now routinely exposed to. I want to be able to rely upon those around me.

Blacksheep - you have a screw loose. We do NOT need to be able to 'Dig and Shoot'!? We DO need to be able to perform basic military tasks (fire-fighting, first-aid, on-scene commander, etc) under more demanding circumstances than peacetime normal.

I agree with SACSmith - fitness is fundamental to a professional military force and the opportunity to train should be provided in core working hours.

Beam me up.

[DuckDogers]

Well i think CT and OPEVAL may show up certain aspects of what has been discussed here and especially what MajorMadMax has alluded to, the fact that WE IN THE AIRFORCE ARE A TEAM! If you do not want to pull your share of the work, due to physical fatigue and lifestyle, then perhaps you should think as to what are you doing in the Airforce? This was highlighted last year on our Stn exercise, the i can't be bothered factor and the someone else will do it aspect were all too apparent.

As i write i'm currently on vacation downunder and have just spent two days at Amberley Air Base and have seen how a real team works. Perhaps the Regiment have a point when they comment every year at GDT time that we have become the Farce Force!

[Ali Barber]

I hope the EFA PTIs know what they're doing. My last AMTC was a few years back, but we were told the best fighter pilot in fitness terms was the weight lifter with no detectable neck, the next was the bar slob and the worst was the runner/jogger. It was all to do with the runners having too low blood pressure and blacking out under g too easily. Will we end up with a fit looking EFA sqn that experiences one too many g-loc incidents?

[Iron City]

Many moons ago while doning quantitative and qualitative manning analysis for USN /USMC came across the analysis for a USMC F-14 squadron.(Yes I know there never really was one) I found an extra factor in the math for the techs and asked the Master Chief what it was for. He said an extra 10% is always added in to USMC squadrons to give them the time to go do PT, get uniforms ready for parade, go to the rifle range, and other military duties (as if keeping the a/c servicable isn't). The numbers dont lie, so hpe Eurofighter squadrons get 10% extra.

[Blacksheep]

Takes tongue out of cheek long enough to blow raspberry in general direction of portly Star Fleet gentleman. <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

********************************. .Through difficulty to the cinema

[Captain Kirk]

Blacksheep,

Fairy Nuff. I was being a tad too serious - I thought you were too - should know better by now! Must have been a long day. Incidentally, what are you doing posting at 0420??? Get some sleep man!

Now where's my corset?