C-130 k one and a half hour pre-flights.

[6nandneutral]

I am not convinced that the secret base in Wiltshire made a wise decision to go for the shorter pre-flight for the K model. I think that it is now time to reasess the situation by asking and TAKING NOTE of those at the coal face. The situation is masked by air traffic flow problems, two ALM sorties and aircraft unserviceabilities leading to delays, giving the ALMs more time to do the job more proficiently without rushing. Also the supporting agencies are not getting it right yet, a factor which the success of the shorter time relies upon.

------------------
It's not going to go anywhere

[4 of 7]

Well, I did 'long' pre-flights for years and years and still the bloody thing went u/s on start etc.

I'm not convinced that pressing all those ptt lights actually achieved anything more than giving me a flat finger.

Why after 34 years is ANYBODY interested in how long the pre-flight should last for. Because I reckon I could have saved about 6 months of my life by (in the old days) dropping the flaps and having an early cup of tea!

[stillin1]

Bl##dy hell 4 of 7! Found you on this thread as well as your doom peddling for art 200380. You must be a hoot at parties. Lighten up, laugh, live, restore my will to live - say something posative!

[Overtorque]

I thought we had gone to a 1 1/2 hour pre flight because that was what the J was going to have. On the K fleet we're still on 1 1/2 hours, and the J fleet have now had to go to a 2 hr preflight! Typical!

[4 of 7]

Stillin1

Name says it all.

Go to:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/inside-clock.htm

[moosemaster]

Overtorque,

When did the C130Joke go to 2 hours, they couldn't even manage to get airborne when I left. Things must really be going well for them!!

You're right though, we were told they would do 1 1/2hrs, so we had to as well.

Life's full of surprises!!

Moose

[Alf Aworna]

This thread has got me wondering.....is this why all the passengers are also given the chance of a thorough 2 hr 'pre flight inspection' by the movers? You ought to rope the paxes in and make it a team effort, if everyone pressed a cct breaker and checked a rivet you'd be airborne in 5 minutes flat and if you got everyone to submit a flt plan at least one of them should get accepted. Oh and best of all it would annoy the movers.

[sprucemoose]

Moosemaster:

Are we related?

Only kidding, unless you are also spindly legged and clumsy!

Sprucemoose

[moosemaster]

Sprucemoose,

You got the clumsy bit right, that must be why they sent me to the secret airbase in wiltshire. It's difficult to break something that's already broken!!!

MooseMaster

[RoboAlbert]

moosemaster just a quick one, as you know so much about Hercs:

If the J is for Joke what's the K for - Knackered?

Regards RA

[EESDL]

K is for Klassic, everyone knows that!!

[RoboAlbert]

EESDL, couldn't agree more. I view the K with great affection and always will. However, I wanted to highlight how stupid this sort of name calling is. If moosemaster has a sensible point to make about the J maybe he can do it without the schoolboy name calling. On the other hand, maybe he can't.......

[Mr C Hinecap]

OY - Alf!

Is the pre-flt something to do with sorting the random load that gets shoved up the @rse of the hairyplane? Means the movers can make it pretty for the heroes up the front when they arrive. Oh please, keep the noise down and drive the thing.

Chin Chin x

[moosemaster]

Robo,
Sorry if your delicate sensibilities were injured by my comments, but if you can't laugh about the situation, the only thing left to do is cry!!
You have to admit it is ridiculous that a tried and tested system should be altered in order to accomodate an aircraft that is neither tested, nor it would appear, capable of meeting those requirements itself.
MM

[6nandneutral]

Guys can we have more For or Against comments on this please. I really think that this is a fairly major flight safety problem. Those with lots of experience will no doubt manage, but I am not convinced that the less experienced will. For the system to work correctly we have to rely on the Line(inc Role Equip), Movements, In flight catering, MT and Ops all getting their job right all the time, and I am afraid that this is not the case. We all make mistakes, at least give the ALMs another half an hour to find them and sort them out. As we have done successfully for the last 30 or so years.

[4 of 7]

6NandNeutral

A word on 'experience'.

'Beware the artisan who boasts twenty years experience in his trade when what he actually means is that he has one year's experience twenty times'.

Your point is well made as regards what the aircraft carries, because its so diverse.

My point was that endless trips around the flight deck pressing buttons and lights only ever proved they worked last time.

Good luck, keep chipping away.

[oldgit47]

When we arrive 90 minutes before departure, if the aircraft is loaded, fueled, serviced etc and ops have jetplans flightplans met etc then there is ample time. Quite often at our wiltshire base, most of these tasks have not been completed, in which case even the full 2 hours would not help. Life is nearly always simpler when we escape from base.

[RoboAlbert]

Moosemaster:

Don't worry - my sensibilities remain intact, flying the J you get use to the sort of misinformed opinions you purvey.

Everyone else:

The two-hour thing has nothing to do with the J. By and large 90 mins is long enough if everything is in place but, as oldgit 47 points out, this is often not the case. To be honest the flt planning for the J is rarely a problem and on a multi sector day you can get all the legs performance and route planning done and stored on a card, before leaving Lyneham. However, the ALMs often have to sort out unnecessary load problems and sit waiting for the fuel or manual trims to arrive (although why we need the latter still, I don't know).
Don't think this is a dig at the Movers and Lines. I think they're doing their best but are probably lack the manpower and resources to meet the new timescales. If we want these sort of dispatch times we need to invest in the necessary people training and equipment to do it.

RA

[6nandneutral]

Robo A.............You are spot on about the manpower, the shorter pre-flt depended on a manning increase, but this meant spending money and it was to be done on a no-cost basis, so guess what happened - no money - no manpower. so lets go back to 2 hrs until the manning is increased, especially for the movers. 4 of 7...........I am mainly speaking from an ALMs point of view, we like yourselves have already shortened our FRC Pre-Flight Checks, but until all of our support agences get it right all the time it will not work, we need time to get things sorted and at the moment we do not have enough time, so something has to go........Flight safety?.

[EESDL]

1.5 pre-flt works if:

1. Aircraft in A-1 condition, no queries from AEng/ALM.
2. 'Fait a Complait' handed to crew upon arrival-with no ambiguity.
3. Sufficiently trained and adequate Flt Ops staff - with sufficient numbers to deal with busier periods. "Flt Ops" do a cracking job if you consider the tools they have to deal with (and I do mean it both ways)
4. Farscot Ops employ motivated and pro-active personnel...not 'job-worths'.
5. Ac are not programmed to flt the very next day that they have returned from a 'route'....all ac carry faults and the diminished Line need sufficient time to rectify the old beasts.
6. Somehow, confidence needs to be instilled in the crews....very difficult considering the re-duction was steam-rolled in...after a brief, patronizing 'trial'.
7. MT contract needs to be altered to provide sufficient MT to provide prompt response for ad-hoc requirements...an accounts nightmare!
8. Who ever thought that the 'flex' was not required should be buried or promoted!!


I've yet to have cause to trust the system and to not have to double-check details....you know the score.