Truth about RAF life

[art200380]

Hi,

I have just recently graduated and I visited a graduate recruitment fair at which I got talking to the RAF. It sounded okay and I have booked to visit Linton-on-Ouse next month for a day - however I just wanted to talk to someone already in the RAF to ask about a few myths.

Firstly, as soon as I got home and I told people that I was visiting the RAF next month, they said that I shouldn't bother because I would never make it as a pilot in the RAF. People have told me that the majority of people who join want to make it as pilots and they only take the top few percent? Is this true? I mean I know they will only want the best flyers but do they take ordinary graduates or are the pilots the people who have been to ATC and UAS because I have been to neither. In fact I have had no contact with the RAF before.

Also what is life like in the RAF? I mean these probably sound really simple questions but what time do you get up, go to bed etc? The problem is I don't know anyone in the RAF but everyone tells me that in the RAF you're told when to wake up, when to eat, when to **** , when to go to bed etc. They say that you'll be up at 6am polishing your boots and marching - how much of this is true? also how much free time do you get? I know its not like a 9-5 job but do you get weekends off for example?

So if anyone already in the RAF could give me an idea of what life is like, and how hard it is to qualify as a pilot, it would be much appreciated. See the thing I am worried about is going in on the pretence that I'm going to be trained as a pilot and then after 6 months doing the IOT they'll turn round and say to me 'sorry but you can't be a pilot, you'll have to do .....' and then I'm stuck they're doing a job I don't want to do for 12 or 16 years.

Please help if you can give me any info!

[Meier]

Art-
Your previous experience (or lack of) matters not one bit. Those awfully nice people at OASC will test you to see if they think you have what it takes and will make thier own judgement. 'majority of people...' - don't know. I never applied to be a pilot and have never regretted the decision.

The 'being told what to do' bit. Whilst training, it happens. Once you are trained, it only happens rarely (IMHO). For all that people in the RAF whinge about it, life's not bad at all for most of us. No company is perfect to work for and the grass is always greener.

Once selected for pilot (if you get that that far) you will go down that path unless the pilot training est decide that you cannot do the job - this will be some time after OASC, not during.

[Dead Loss]

Art

Don't be misguided by hearsay and second hand advice. The days of unnecessary bull**** are long gone (apart from a few weeks at Cranditz to test your mettle). Speak to the guys at Linton and then make up your own mind if the RAF is for you. If you then want to be a pilot, then go for it; there is no reason why you shouldn't be one of the lucky few that make it. OASC will soon let you know what your chances are.

Do not worry about being trapped if you have been selected for pilot and don't hack it. You will be offered other options, but you don't have to take them.

[art200380]

Dead Loss,

I have a couple of further questions for you - what do you mean if you don't make it as pilot, they'll offer you something else but you don't have to take it? If you can't make it as a pilot and they offer you something else, and you say no, what do you do then?

And the second question is - if you do OASC and fail, are you past the point to get out of the RAF? how long exactly is it after you sign up, to get out with no harm done?

Andy

[Dan Winterland]

You are only committed once you have passed your professional training, in the case of a pilot when you have been awarded your wings. At any time up to that point you can voluntarily withdraw from training. If you fail at any stage, you will be offered another branch. It's entirely up to you whether you take the opportunity. If the thought of being a Navigator or any other branch doesn't grab you if you fail Pilot training, then you are free to leave.

If you are interested after visiting Linton, start boning up about the RAF and current affairs, as these are the things you will be asked about at OASC. Not having prior cadet or UAS experience will not hinder you in any way, apart from starting with a lower level of knowledge.

[This message has been edited by Dan Winterland (edited 01 July 2001).]

[Talking Radalt]

Art, It's very hard to say what life is like in the RAF. You have to experience it to understand it which I know at face value probably doesn't help you much.
It's a very varied lifestyle, (keyword:LIFESTYLE) It's not a job, not a career step ladder to better things, and like anything, you get out what you put in. In my time I have stayed in hotels most people only see in movies, I've met filmstars and Royalty but then again I've been shot at, slept in holes in the ground and lost a few good friends along the way.
The pay isn't epic but what you can't put a price on is that feeling of knowing in yourself that you are doing "your bit". How many supermarket managers for example can say the same thing? Often what you see on ITN one day is your destination the next and I for one wouldn't want things any other way.
The best you can do is get as close to RAF life as possible. Visit everywhere you can, go to every air show you can, talk to as many military people as you can.
Good luck to you.

[raytofclimb]

Some good advice here mate so take it all in but keep an open mind.

Make the most of your visit to Linton, too many people at things like this just go shy. You will be hosted later in the day by a couple of guys on the BFJT course and any one of them should answer ANY of your questions, I've been one of them! so be frank. If you have any preconceptions about squaddies, polishing, and marching then I guarantee you will be pleasantly surprised at the lifestyle.

I eat when I want, s**t when I want, start the day at 8, free to go off station when I want, weekends off etc etc. It's not prison, just a job like many others.

E-mail me if you have any specific questions. Good luck.

Ray.

[only1leftmate!]

Our doubts are traitors
that make us lose the good we oft might win
by fearing to attempt

`Shaky'

[4 of 7]

If all those people are telling you not to bother do yourself a favour . . Listen.

The RAF all live in little bubbles which all support each other so they all stick together in case one realises that its not all its cracked up to be.

So be an individual and give it a miss - get a real job!

If you make it you might have a career (not to be confused with the verb 'to career' which of course means an uncontrollable downhill slide) and might even make the dizzy heights of Squadron Leader - which qualifies you to command the bike sheds and their annual inspection by someone with nothing better to do for the day.

[DP Harvey]

OASC is the selection centre where, hopefully, you will be offered a career of sorts in the RAF. It might be as a pilot.

You are not under any obligation to accept any offer of employment by the OASC.

If you graduate from the IOT, you will be a commissioned officer upon graduation with some terms of service attached, but you are still not committed.

If you fail at, say, pilot training you can resign your commission immediately and return to civvie life regardless of what they "offer" you. You have rights and you are only committed to the RAF after you have successfully completed the specialist branch training that you volunteered to enter.

[Dead Loss]

Art

Your questions have been more than adequately answered above. You will even have gathered from 4 of 7 that the RAF isn't everyone's cup of tea. Keep asking the questions and make up your own mind. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

[Kiting for Boys]

As an un-military taxpayer, can I say that these observations underline the whole point of the military as far as I'm concerned?

Well done.

ps don't hit me again

pps reference the Aztec Bars in the 'old style Ratpacks' thread....and from personal experience:

The TV shoot for the Aztec advert was set in Central America at a stepped pyramid.

The star was a young indian/latin-american guy who would run to the top of the pyramid carrying a silver platter full of Aztec bars.

When he reached the top, there was a once-only release of a hundred white doves by the 'High Priest'.

A fortune was spent taking the crew into the jungle, setting up the scene and filming multiple takes of the young god-like hero running to the top of the stepped pyramid, before - finally - the white doves were released.

The crew returned, the ad was aired.

In the market research that followed the launch of new Aztec, a consumer's verbatim coment about this megabucks, central american location-shoot went:

'This Pakistani ran up the roof of a house and some bloke threw snowballs at him when he got to the top'

No stepped pyramid, no Aztecs, no heroic climb, no white doves, no sales success....but hey!
Let's sell them to the MoD

[moosemaster]

Lighten up 4,

Life's not THAT bad.
Art, I've been in for 5 years, and I can tell you you will get replies like 4 of 7's from the oldies who saw the "Good old days". If you accept that the airforce will never be better than the day you joined, it's fine.
If you are after the "Battle of Britain" theme, then don't bother. For my part, after 6 years in a "REAL JOB" before joining, it was the best move I ever made, (Especially as I'm NOT a pilot)
As for your other question about OASC, when you go through it, you are still a civvy, so do it, even if it is just for the experience!!
Ask, Listen, then make up your own mind.

MM

[Max R8]

Art me old, there has been some good advice on this thread, there has also been some absolute toss! If 4 of 7 is, was or ever has been in the RAF then I weep for the people who had to work with him. I have served for 25 years and far from being a bitter "oldie" I recommend you go for it. However, it does depress me that a graduate like yourself has been exposed to so many stereotype prejudices about service life. If you want to join as RAF aircrew you will be trained as an officer. You will probably have to get up at 0600 and clean your boots, you will probably be asked to clean some urinals with a tooth brush. However, at the (hopefully successful) end of your training you will be expected to be able to work out for yourself when to get up, go to bed and shi*! Come on mate, if you want jets be adult enough do your research into the RAF with a bit more thought than asking some mate whose never been in and never likely to get in. If you have potential we will find it and train you. Now go for it!

[Talking Radalt]

Mr 4 of 7, You have furnished us with your opinion, now would you be so good as to upholster it with some reference as to what experience said opinion is based upon? Are you, per chance, one of those law-suit wielding spotty Nintendoids who got turned down at OASC? Sure sounds like it!
And that name? Is that how Snow White addresses you?

[4 of 7]

To Whom It May Concern

Tristar Hercules mainly and enough time over 20 years to regret not leaving sooner.

I stand by every word I said, huddle together boys, there's a cold wind blowing!

How many times have you heard, 'those with any get-up-and-go have got-up-and-gone?'

By the way, the Bank Manager doesn't give a monkey's how clean your bike shed is, only you care.

The flying is good fun and from time to time necessary, the bull is interminable.

Ever see the films of the lakes in Africa where all the fish are flapping about in the rapidly drying out muddy puddle?

Believe its all great, then you don't have to make a decision, concentrate on the career, the 1369 and being a good all-round egg.

[art200380]

Thanks for the replies everyone,

you've given me some valuable information and I'll definitely go to RAF Linton on Ouse in August and ask lots of questions!!

I didn't really understand 4 of 7's last reply though!!

[Seven of Nine]

4 of 7
I don't understand - if things were so bad, why did you stay for 20 years?
Art, for what its worth, I've done 18 years (most of it front-line fast-jet) and I'd sign on again tomorrow. I've got mates in the airlines, law, accountancy and IT and not once have I wished to be in their jobs - I just couldn't handle the boredom.

[art200380]

Seven of Nine,

how much experience did you have before you joined the RAF? Were you a total beginner or were you in the ATC or UAS before joining the RAF? Are you planning to come out of the RAF and join one of the commercial airlines in the future?

And could you tell me about any of your BEST and WORST experiences in the RAF? have you had to clean any toilets with urinals?!?!?!?!

Thanks 7 of 9, any info is much appreciated.

[droptank]

Art,

There is an old Yorkshire story about a young couple who are looking at a cottage in a village in the Dales. The 'Young Wife' spies the proverbial local yokel leaning over his garden gate and asks him what the village is like.

'What wor it like where tha cooms from lass', says he.

'Dreadful', she replied, 'No-one talks to anybody or helps anybody and we can't wait to get away'.

'Aye', says he,'Well I'm sorry to tell tha that it's very much the same 'erabouts'.

The next day, another couple view the same cottage, and Young Wife 2 asks the same yokel the same question.

'What wor it like where tha cooms from lass', says he.

'Wonderful', says she,'We can hardly bear to leave because everybody's so nice, kind and helpful.'

'Aye', says he, 'Well I'm pleased to tell you that it's very much the same 'ereabouts'.

I suggest that the first ladies name might be 4of7 and the second, perhaps, might be 7of9. Join for the joy of it, not for what it does for you and, if you get no joy, bang out before it destroys your soul.

[stillin1]

art 200380,
Your last reply was in my opinion (27 yrs so far, 20 fast jet nose gunner & remarkably un bitter and twisted)the winner. Give it a go and come on in if you like what OASC have to show you. The thread has given you a balanced reply. We too have, or have had, our share of plonkers but most of the guys & girls you get to work with are one of the main reasons for taking the queens shilling.

[4 of 7]

http://www.howstuffworks.com/inside-clock.htm

Sorry, unable to resist.

[Mad Pax]

Art - go for it !!! I got stuffed at the 11th hour by athsma. Sometimes I count myself lucky (emb*ggerances, contractorisation, lack of ... etc,) but there are times when I curse genetics and wonder what could have been (as he climbs up the hatch of his Vulcan on another daring game of cat and mouse with the Reds, ha!). I say do your damnest - good luck sah !

------------------
Oi got a bran' new comboine 'aarverster...

[Talking Radalt]

4o'7,
Nearly 20 years and I've yet to clean a bike shed. What on earth are you on about?
One of the things I enjoy about the job you clearly despise so much is the near total lack of money-driven go-getters. Instead, as has been mentioned, we are a workforce driven by, to a greater or lesser extent, the sheer appeal and enjoyment of doing what we do, even if it includes cleaning bike sheds (nope, still don't get it).
But the really good bit is this (and it comes from a recruitment consultant mate o' mine)...that "can-do" attitude makes us amongst the most employable workers in the country in the eyes of your average MD and image is, after all, everything, so even if the muddy puddle does dry up, we're the fish who'll evolve in to something better.
Now, could you just run over that bike shed thing again?

[Alf Aworna]

Art
Go for it, it truly is the best job in the world, bar none and I would recommend it. You will fly some incredible machines, visit some incredible places and meet some incredible people. You just require the commitment to give it your best shot, the rewards are worth it. Remember that anyone can pay to get an ATPL and fly civvy. However, do you want to turn round in 10 years time sitting in your office/airline cockpit, see a fast jet go by and wonder if you could have done it, its too late then. You only get one chance in life, have a go, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

[Poor Pongo]

Mate,

Its horses for courses. I have been in the Army for about 15 years and I still love it. Like any other job - or lifestyle - it has its ups and downs and (cliche alert) it's what you make of it.

My career in the Army has done exactly what it said on the tin, as the man in the ad says. I have had the privilege of flying the Queen's helicopters in a way which would have been absolutely unavailable as a civilian. I have also negotiated my way through checkpoints and along sniper alley in Sarajevo, walked street patrol in Northern Ireland, lead armoured columns in Germany and inspected Iraqi military positions in the desert. Thats not to mention Ski-ing in the Alps, Diving in the Red Sea or Parachuting in California (All on duty). I also have 2 Master Degrees courtesy of the Queen and an ATPL(H) and (A). Oh I haven't mentioned working with some of the best blokes (and girls - my wife is also in the services!) you could ever hope to meet and going on some of the most outrageous piss-ups in locations as different as Lithuania and Hong Kong.

Yes, its also true it hasn't been all roses. I have been piss wet through on Salisbury Plain, Carried heavy things around in the dark in Scotland, been subjected to all manner of unpleasant interrogation, cleaned toilets with toothbrushes, lived in accomodation that was simply not good enough, carried out orders and tasks I thought were nonsensical, polished Boots, marche up and down the square, worked for some absolute a***holes, not had the right kit, been s**t-scared, frustrated by bureaucracy and wondered if i was still doing the right thing.

The point is that the good stuff doesn't come without some payback. If you want a lifestyle that is all easy, predictable, sensible and stays in the comfort zone then don't join. Work for Sainsburys or McKinseys or some other totally office bound and no doubt valuable profession. The services will give you the opportunity to do things simply unavailable to a civilian and a variety that is unparalleled (imho) and perhaps the opportunity to take very real responsibilities early.

I can absolutely understand that it isn't for some and also that the time comes for everyone to leave (Family pressures, changes in priorities etc) but I absolutely wouldn't have missed it for the World.

Find out as much as you can. Give all you have and be determined to enjoy the experience no matter what.

Good luck either way.

PP.

[L J R]

PP Great balanced reply.

Good to see reality.

And yes, sometimes it is those little things like those piss-ups in Zamboanga that make it worth-while.

Some of us go supersonic and inverted [at the same time!]. It is those little things that do it for me. Doing it at night though has its moments.....

Edited - [God I wish I could spell!!]



[This message has been edited by L J R (edited 03 July 2001).]

[4 of 7]

Radalt and Art

In 1975 I watched two pilots cleaning the squadron bike-sheds at Lyneham, overseen by a Flt Commander.

I was engaged in cleaning windows for an AOC (Art, AOC=bigboss with a lackey and lots of gold braid who spends a lot of time with people fawning around him (with some brave and notable exceptions)) who probably couldn't give a tinker's cuss about the bike sheds.

This was mainly so that our station heirarchy could 'domino' upwards and all move to the next seat when the music stopped (commonly known as career progression).

That image (and similar ones since) has always stuck with me as one of the more non-sensical aspects of the military.

Flying at 500' Radio in the bottom of Grand Canyon was the other side.

Its not all bad but people appear to be 'fighting for advancement' in an ever-decreasing workforce - hence the simile with fish flopping about in a pond that's too small.

There, now do you understand, I don't expect that you should agree, just understand.

Many years ago, I felt so safe in my military bubble, I eschewed all thoughts of leaving, I wanted to believe.

I really wish that I had wised up sooner. This is just the 'other side' of Art's questions.

Plus, a teeny-weeny wind up - just for effect.

[MG]

I can't agree more with the positive replies. Of course peoples' attitudes change and you decide after 20 years you want out, but I wouldn't change the 16 I've had already. Like the others, I've slept in the filthiest places imaginable, and some of the best hotels that I could never afford. I can almost look back with fondness at the times I've been shot at!! The one thing though that makes the Forces unique is the social side. Work hard, Play hard is a nasty cliche, but it is so true. Which other job can you ask your boss to take an aircraft away 'Cos I'm off on a p*ss up'? See you all at Bruggen on Friday!

[jet jones]

Art,

You have come to the right place ....I would advice you to go for the visit and see what you think for yourself..I graduated 3 years ago and I am going to cranwell in 3 weeks..I am visiting Boscombe down to see what life is really like but i think it will suit me cos i like to travel, play sport, and be as close to expensive fast things that fly as much as possible...I dont get that in the city despite all the cash they pay me unfortunately it is too late for me to go in as a pilot but i know there will be opportunities to do that on a civie basis once i get in..However, there is the other side as the fl liut. said in my filter interview, we lost a puma pilot in Kosovo yesterday how do you feel about that?? I told him its part of the job....You have to ask yourself what are you willing to risk ...Once you have answered that, go for it...I wish I did earlier..

------------------
live to fly

[art200380]

Thanks for the insights guys, I'll have to wait and see what Linton-on-Ouse is like!!

Art

[Dan Winterland]

A great place with great aeroplanes (oh yes they are BEagle!). Try and wangle a flight - if you manage it, your mind will be made up for you!

[BEagle]

How are they at 300KIAS at low level or at 35000ft then Dan? Can they do 400KIAS in a shallow dive like the JP5?? Yes - they've got good range and are quite agile. But hampered by not being proper jet-propelled military trainers like the JP, Gnat, Hawk, Hunter, Vampire, Meteor......BWoS had a perfectly excellent jet trainer ready to be built to replace the JP - but no, their Airships decided to turn the clock back and go for a prop design which is NOT going to last as long as the JP did!!

[Gainesy]

Shock Horror.
BEagle uses "excellent" in reference to BWOS product.
Has the Baron got to him with an offer of illicit tripe pies? A night out in Wigan?
We should be told.

[The Mistress]

Nah, it was the offer of mushy peas wot did it :)

[BEagle]

Ah- but I only said that it was a design; no doubt by the time 't baron had got 't blokes in 't werrrks building 't jet it would likely, tha' knows, have ended oop late and overr 't budget. That would have set 't Baron's clog-dancing bells tintinabulating merrily as ee chortled happily whilst counting 't brass as ee'd have wrung out of Old Mad Maggie!!

It were 't threat of 't peas as 'ad me saying something good about 't Bungling Baron Wasteospace ferr once, tha' knows!!

[This message has been edited by BEagle (edited 06 July 2001).]

[TheNightOwl]

Art: From my 22 years, which ended in 1983, one thing about Service life has stayed with me. If you treat it as another job, it'll break your heart. If, on the other hand, you embrace it as a way of life, and accept that, at times, you'll wonder why the hell you are doing this, it is a way of life without peer. I was not, am not, aircrew, and no longer live in U.K., but I still miss many, many aspects of Service life just not available in civvy street.

Go for it, fix in your mind what you want and don't let ANYTHING stand in your way.

Best of luck, hope you make it,

TheNightOwl.

[Dan Winterland]

The JP was fine, providing you were still operating Hunters and Lightnings as you front line fighters.

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Dan,

Does that mean the JP was fine for high-performance aircraft lead-in, whereas todays bus-driver merely requires the turboprop experience?! :D :D

[Dan Winterland]

S'pose it does - although that is not what I meant!

What I really meant to say is that it is a modern aircraft with modern kit. For example, flying airways (which fast jet pilots have to do as well) is possile in a Tuc, whereas an airway was something you only flew in if you screwed up in a JP.

[Big Green Arrow]

Art, If having a good time is what you want then jump in. Be under no illusion, however, that Aunty Betty will get her pound of flesh...so make the most of any opportunity.

I've been in for 12 years (pilot) and have had EVERY job that I wanted...so much so I'm shortly off to my 3rd overseas tour! Promotion can come or go..I'm not that fussed; I joined the mob to:

A. Fly.
B. Have fun.
C. Fly.
D. See the world from an office with an ace view (generally low level!)

The jobs I have done have been varied and with different services/nationalities....I'm still enjoying it and have no intention of going just yet, but I promised she-that- must-be-obeyed that when I do stop enjoying it, then I'll pack it in and become an accountant!

Best of luck buddy.

:cool: