Asthma

[fockewulf]

This is purely out of curiosity (so please dont write abbusive responses), however if somebody with asthma, who may or may not still have it did not list it on the medical form (military), and hypothetically passed the medical, if discovered what type of punishment would they face?

[Ghostflyer]

Half the RAF gets 'Summer Colds' but no one would admit to hayfever!

[Grimweasel]

NEVER admit this as it's a sure fire way of never getting accepted for Aircrew. I should know as I have been turned down twice now just for sneezing for 1 month of the year!. .Silly I know, but I was told later that I should have never admitted to having Hayfever. The current RAF policy is for you to be 4 years clear of symptoms before they will process an application. So.....just steer clear of the Med. Centre for a few years and you should be fine!

Good Luck!!

[Mach the Knife]

The type of punishment they would face would depend a lot on where and when they suffered an attack.. .On the ground they would probably get away with a severe shouting at, grounding and possible discharge.. .In the air the penalty could be a short case of death for them, their crew, passengers and any one unlucky enough for the wreckage to come down on them.

[fockewulf]

It never gives me any problems and i can manage it fine. So is there many who have successfully had acute amnesia when they got to that question on the forms and gotten away with it?

[zedder]

Sure are:

Joined late 1984.. .Diagnosed as mildly asthatic in late 1987; funny old thing I was on the front-line by then!. .Med Cat went from A1G1Z1 to A3G2Z1 unfit high-performance aircraft. Not a problem because I was Group 2.. .Initially had 6-monthly and then annual check-ups with a specialist.. .Eventually (about 8 years) they decided that was a waste of money as the condition was stable. I was/am on 2 puffs of Becotide 100 twice a day and Ventolin as required.

So bottom line is that after the initial panic by the medics it has never been an issue. Even the potential hurdle when it came to promotion and service to age 55 passed by without a problem.

Providing you too have only mild asthma, you may well be able to beat the med screening too!!

[kippermate]

Unfortunately for your mate, who may or may not have had asthma, the docs at DOR&S are, I believe, able to get hold of your medical records. And that's that! However, not all respiratory problems are asthma ( just like that summer cold ) and your mate may never have had asthma in the first place. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[fockewulf]

Just re asking initial question, to see if any other have valid input/experiences to share.

[Spugford]

Interesting!

The news today includes results from a study which shows that asthma incidence in youngsters is increasing at 'an alarming rate'.

Wonder if the DoR&S docs will alter their criteria at all, as they apparently have with the drugs issue. Apparently today's applicants can admit to having tried drugs once and once only, twice and you're an addict!

Best keep shtummm methinks!!

;)

[Roger the cabin boy]

Did you see that program "Parasite's" on the Beeb? Apparently Asthma, hay fever and the like are on the increase due to our over active immune systems. However, if you are deliberately infected with tape worms, it can significantly reduce or eliminate these problems, as your body fights the bug, not itself. Maybe that's your answer - nip off somewhere unsanitary - can I suggest France?:ok:

[Ginger Beer]

Be careful fella,

One of the reasons why it is dangerous to hide even a mild case of hayfever type symptoms is that - chaps and chapesses in a sandy environment recently reacted badly due them having taken NAPS tablets (anti nerve agent), as prescribed by MOD Docs. If you are told to use NAPS, you could react badly and if in control of an aircraft? well, er, just be careful what you get yourself into.

[fockewulf]

If somebody had hypothetically omitted to tick the relevant box on the medical questionaire and had since passed all the aircrew medicals, any advice or words of wisdom for a person in such a situation?

[RubiC Cube]

I have known of lots of fully fledged aircrew who suffer from "hay fever" and are given anti-histamines on a regular basis. It appears that the trick is to disguise it until you reach a squadron.

[fockewulf]

You mean working under the theory that if they dont find out till they've spent X many dollars training you, then it wont worry them?

[Stray Fin]

Fockewulf
I had a mate who was selected and flying for the RNZAF as a Fast Jet jock, despite being diagnosed as having mild asthma when he was a teenager (he had worked part-time in a spray painting business and when he left, funny thing, so did the asthma). The RNZAF were happy to accept that he no longer had asthma. When that she-man of a NZ prime minister disbanded the fast jet fleet a couple of years back he applied for the RAF and having been accepted, received his start date for the IOT short-course. While he was waiting to start, however, the RAF docs did some of their own research and then decreed he was unfit for service due to asthma and refused to have a second opinion.
Even if you do avoid the truth, kippermate is right when he says they'll still be able to get hold of your medical docs.
You may still get around things with the help of a sympathetic doc. The one I saw during selection told me that the odd snuffle I had during summer was most definately not hayfever!

[grundog]

I started getting some minor asthma as a teenager.
Signed up, trained up and then mentioned once I was combat ready that I appeared to have developed asthma.
The RAF couldn't have cared less. I was told I was unfit fast jet but seeing as I was rotary anyway it wasn't really a problem.
I spent years Combat Ready with Asthma (very mild) and knew several others in the same boat.

Bit of case of you will not get in if you have it but if you 'develop' it once in it probably won't be the end of the world.

BTW. Then I left, now flying in Canada and don't get Asthma any more. Must be something to do with breathing healthy air!

[BlueWolf]

If it's of any help;

In Chinese medicine asthma is regarded as a disorder not of the respiratory system, but of the kidneys, and treated accordingly.

Curiously enough, most western allopathic treatments for asthma attempt to mimic the effects of adrenalin in the body.

If allergens can be a trigger for an asthma attack, and the kidneys are part of the body's filtering system, then I don't find it difficult to link the two.

If this information helps your hypothetical friend to in any way suppress his ocaisional symptoms, then more power to him.

Good luck to you both!
:ok:

[RobinXe]

A couple of people have mentioned about the forces medical staff having access to your records.

Would you not be able to surpress any information of your friend's asthma being passed on under the auspices of doctor-patient confidentiality?

[fockewulf]

My question actually relates, to a hypothetical situation whereby somebody had already passed the medical tests for aircrew. Mainly looking for advice on whether or not to join up, if it can be hidden whilst in the service, experiences etc.

[Stray Fin]

If you've passed the medical tests, then tally-ho!

[fockewulf]

I didnt say "I" merely posed a hypothetical question. Still would be nice to hear some accounts from those who have/know people from similar situations.

[Woff1965]

A guy I was in school with joined the Paras. He was in 6 years or so and had perfect health, he made corpora and was expecting a promotion to Sergeant. He was doing a Northern Ireland tour (second I recall) and half way through suddenly got asthma, whilst it was relatively mild they got him out of the army on a medical.

Three years later the asthma had cleared up and he joined the TA as an infantryman - medically cleared 100% fit and no relapses. His consultant told him that in some cases high stress levels can trigger asthma, but remove the stress and the asthma goes away.

Thinking about Bluewolfs post, the adrenalin angle makes a lot of sense - my mate always thought it was a psychosomatic condition, sort of a mental excuse not to run around the streets of Londonderry dodging IRA snipers.

[fockewulf]

Any more advice or experiences?

From what I gather it has happened before where someone with asthma has gotten through, then mysteriously developed asthma and been allowed to stay? Does this happen in countries aside from the UK? Is no fast jets the usual restriction? Hypothetically if someone only required a preventative thingo, every day or three would that be considered mild?

[betty_boo_x]

I did suffer from asthma for years and still continue to serve using this remedy passed to me by an old chinese monk... boil the eyes of three gibbons, add the toenail cuttings of a veteran loadmaster, the worms from a datshound's pooh, boiled longingly and lovingly in maidens' water - and rectally infused daily. My asthma has got me through the last ten annual medicals; although the Dr says, "your bottom is a bit loose" - I think it's a small price to pay. I am finding it harder and harder to get the toenails. I hope this helps. Happy new year x. :O

[MissHap]

You're playing with fire mate, sorry. The med boards check the medical records of ALL applicants via a GPs medical report. You can lie on the forms, but they will find out anyway. I've personally never had asthma, but when they checked my med records they found that I had suffered 'mild wheezing' once as a child whilst suffering from bronchitis. That was enough for them, my med cat was pulled and I had to wait to see a specialist. Fortunately the specialist quickly summarised that I didn't have asthma, never had and never would, and I will soon be starting IOT to serve a commission as a pilot. So my advice to you would be not to lie, it won't get you anywhere. The RAF have got very good reasons why they don't select aircrew with a history of asthma, they haven't just made them up!

[Feck]

For someone who has the occasional sniffles on a yearly basis, can you guarantee ear / sinus pain will not stop you from safely descending and landing a single seat aircraft (worst case in terms of incapacitation) or a passenger-laden multi (worst case in terms of you endangering other people)?

For someone who has asthma, can you guarantee that in a hugely stressful situation you will be able to function normally, giving the task 100% of your concentration?

1. Will it affect your performance? If yes, be true to yourself and anyone liable to be below / behind you.

2. If no, and your medical records don't reveal the truth, can you live the lie?

[betty_boo_x]

Lighten up fella`s:cool: It was a joke(although having to explain the fact it was/is a joke is explanation enough:confused: :confused: )
I dont have eczema and never have,what with "duty of care" these days if there is any hint of a problem, you aint coming:{
Please relax a little, I'm off to play with my fire and feed my gibbon and recharge my inhaler:ok:

[steamchicken]

A Hypothetical Friend...always a useful thing to have around! "Boss, what would become of my HF if he was to...?"

[Lazy_Student]

As for 'Doctor-Patient confidentiality'...

I seem to remember the OASC medical form requiring a signature that the applicant agree to their records being looked at. So if it's written down, They'll know about it - and rightly so, IMHO.

[longshanks]

I found myself in this situation some 20 years ago. Passed the aircrew medical three times (test in advance, flying scholarship then the actual aircrew selection tests), all the while wondering if I'd be found out. I even ticked yes in the hayfever box. The RAF offer was a General Duties (ground) commission to see how the breathing went, on the basis that it often clears up post-puberty, when I could re-apply for flying training after a couple of years. Trouble was, it rested on my conscience in case I let anyone down and when the letter turned up saying" turn up at Cranwell next March" I politely declined. I've often wondered since whether I did the right thing or whether my opting out meant I lacked the right stuff anyway.

[Oggin Aviator]

The crux of this question is that said hypothetical friend has already passed the medical therefore the RAF must have already checked civvy medical records.

Therefore if said hypothetical friend says nothing now and no one recognises the symptons in said hypothetical friend then he or she should be ok. However said hypothetical friend should bear in mind ****'s post above which contains many wise words.

[Blunty]

There has been a lot of guidance on this matter, but the bottom line is if someone knowingly gives the wrong information on joining it is classed as a false attestation. Now I have not heard about someone not declaring health problems, but I have heard of personnel who have failed to declare criminal convictions and they have been discharged.

As for the Asthma, if it develops once you are in, and is only mild you get a Med Cat of G2. G2 is a medical note and does not affect your career at all. However, if it is anything other than mild you can get a Med Cat of G3 and this could lead to discharge for an airman or no promotion for an officer.

[fockewulf]

I never said it was RAF. Situation is everything passed, including medical. People with actual experience in this would be greatly appreciated if they could provide some info, possibly by PM.

[whowhenwhy]

I don't know about no promotion for G3 officers. Every year if I get a cold it used to turn into bronchitis, which left me with the lung function of a long dead donkey. This was duly treated with asthma medication, therefore I'm asthmatic. Because the medication I'm given is as strong as it gets, short of lying on a hospital bed, I'm going to be permanent G3 and those lovely people are talking about discharge. No matter the fact that I have no aerobic problems on exercise, and that with the medication it doesn't matter if I do get a cold because it doesn't become bronchitis! I'm only in ATC. All I have to do is sit down, talk to people on a radio and eat doughnuts! Anyone get advice on how to fight off the dreaded medics??:\

[fockewulf]

Dont tell them in the first place.

[steamchicken]

I wonder how much of the much reported rise in asthma cases is due to diagnosis-by-medication, whowhenwhy? After all, it's hardly a high standard of logic.

[Boy_From_Brazil]

Many cases of 'asthma' and 'migraine' are misdiagnosed by overworked, careless GP's. Unfortunately these are put on permanent medical record.

My advice is to get a second opinion, in writing, by a leading expert in that field and make sure that these are kept with your medical files. I know from personal experience that this will work in your favour, if you have been given a wrong diagnosis. It will cost you a fair bit of money, but it is well worth it if you want a flying career.

BFB

[BlueWolf]

....or you could take the Chinese cure, which works, and because it works your symptoms will go away, so you don't have the condition, and because the western medical establishment doesn't accept anything it hasn't thought of, as real, it doesn't go on your record....problem solved!

(Hint to Doubters: you don't get to have 1.3 billion people and an uninterupted culture 5,000 years old by using ineffective medicine :ok: )

[fockewulf]

What is this Chinesse cure?

[BlueWolf]

I'm not a Chinese herbalist, but the treatment begins with Ma Huang, botanical name Ephedra, from which ephedrine is extracted, from which pseudoephedrine is synthesised.

It stimulates the kidneys and adrenals, flushes allergens from the body, mimics adrenalin, and in so doing, opens the airways.

After that it gets complicated, but it's to do with retraining the body to not respond to allergens.

[fockewulf]

Hypothetically if somebody had passed all relevant testing, medical and aptitude for pilot and is awaiting an offer, who has asthma but requires no medication or treatment for it by controling thier breathing, what would be people's advice? Anyone ever been in a similar situation?

Sorry to keep asking similar question, but very keen to see opinions.....for interests sake.

[DP Harvey]

FW,
You keep asking the same question, despite the wealth of quality answers, on topic, that you are receiving.

Bottom line: If an applicant for aircrew doesn't disclose an asthmatic condition recorded on his medical docs, regardless of how it is controlled, he will be guilty of falsifying a declaration, which is punishishable under military law.

Sure, the records might not be checked once the individual has passed all of the entry checks, but there is an annual medical check and some of the doctors do take time out to have a look at the medical history of the person they are about to sign up for another year.

It would be naive to think that it is a risk worth taking.

And the chances of anyone here owning up to such a stupid act is negligible.