Military Pensions??

[Rusty Cessna]

Hiya folks,

Sorry to post what may be a little off topic thread, but I was wondering how the pensions for each service compare, are there any major differences between pensions in the Army, Navy or RAF, or are they pretty much the same?

The reason I ask is that the imformation I have seems a little ambiguous and I wanted to get it straight as it were.

Thanks for your time,
Rusty

[Wholigan]

Bleedin' 'ell Rusty, nothing like looking ahead is there matey???? :)

[BEagle]

Nothing like as good as with the airlines! One of the biggest areas of concern in the RAF at present is that, unlike in the rest of the 21st century employment, the pension is NOT based on your final salary. 'They' still haven't realised that Flying Pay IS part of one's salary, hence those lucky enough to remain flying only get a pension based on about 75% of their final salary. But if you were Wg Cdr paperclips on the same salary as Sqn Ldr A2 QFI, IRE, etc etc who'd given years of service, then you would get a pension based on 100% of your final salary!

Hence unless the blunt ones who make these decisions start paying pensions based on final (or best of the last 3) year's salary, people will just leave for the airlines as soon as they've achieved their 2000 hours' accreditation rights.............

[Rusty Cessna]

Cheers Beagle,

I wasn't aware that was the situation, know anywhere where I might be able to find out more?

Wholi, its not for me ya puddin! Although I think i may be going grey.. ;)

Cheers again,
Rusty

[D-IFF_ident]

http://www.officerspensionsoc.co.uk/

[only1leftmate!]

Beagle

Did I read your post correctly? You seem to be labouring under the gross misapprehension that us blunties make the decisions in the RAF. The RAF is run by the 2-winged master race. It always has been and, despite the common branch attempt currently under way, it always will be.

So if you don't like the decisions regarding pay, flying clothing, pensions and the withdrawral of batting services to staging crews you know who is responsible for making them.

In reply to the original post: you can forget about a pension from the Armed Services. His Tonyness cannot abide Servicemen getting a pension before they are 65 and will have effectively killed off the scheme by the time he leaves power. I don't think you'll have much luck introducing it under the C*ntservatives either.


carnt sppel

[This message has been edited by only1leftmate! (edited 01 July 2001).]

[Brakes...beer]

Only1leftmate!

The RAF is not run by the two-winged master race; it's run by the Treasury. The blue-suiters (wings or no) just get to divvy up the measly amount the Great Gordon grants them - if you want buy something, you've got to save somewhere else.

Rusty

I left the Air Force a couple of years ago, and the following may have been invalidated by Pay 2000 or whatever it's called, but I haven't heard of the pensions deal being changed. For each year's service you do as an officer, you get c.1/33rd of your final salary as a pension with a maximum of about 2/3 final salary. This is basic salary (exc flying pay and all allowances). If you stay in the Air Force to about 38, you get an immediate pension of about 1/3 of your final basic salary plus an immediate gratuity of 3 times that (pension) amount. This pension is frozen until you are 55 (ie, it doesn't increase, even with inflation). Then at 55 it catches up with all the index-linked increases over the intervening years. Stay in until you're 55 and you get a pension of 2/3 basic salary, which is immediately index-linked.

If you PVR after, say, 9 years you get a £10/11K Resettlement Grant and a frozen pension of about 9/33 of your final salary, minus a bit for bunking off early, so a total frozen pension of £5000 in my case, which you do not receive until you are 60, suitably index-linked.

The basic pay (2 years ago anyway) was linked across the Services, ie a first-year sqn ldr got the same as a first-year lt cdr or major and the pensions were likewise linked.

I agree that the Govt (Treasury - same thing)hates the Armed Forces Pension Scheme, but if you join before it is changed then you are safe.

[4 of 7]

The pension is not worth half as much as people would have you believe.

When compared with most civil airline schemes it is pathetic. But, no doubt it will be 'promoted' as a great thing, just to aid retention.

Believe then!

Just be prepared for the shock if you have to live on it.

[Per Ardua ad Infinitum]

Only1left

Your Station Commander must be sooo proud of you - not!

[only1leftmate!]

Per ard

why so? throw me a bone here.

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

[edited because I couldn't be bothered arguing]

[This message has been edited by Whipping Boy's SATCO (edited 03 July 2001).]

[Doctor Cruces]

Yes, yes not a lot of loot, but c'mon everyone it IS non-contributary and I'm now paying 4% of my salary out here in the real world so really it's a bit of "summat for nowt", just doing a job and getting flying pay for it as well.

Doc C. ;)

[Dan Winterland]

It may not be much at age 55, but to get the pension at age 38 is a useful boost to anything you may earn outside. When I leave in three weeks, it puts my total earnings up to what I would be earning had I stayed in the RAF - for the first year anyway!

And of course it is non-contributry which has to be good!

[JoBag]

Doc C

The Military pension is non-contributary only in so far as no deductions are made from monthly pay; however, 7% is deducted from all military salaries before they are promulgated/paid, hence the misconception that it is 'free'.

Interestingly, the current evaluation of the military pension is that it is only worth a 6% deduction (which the AFPRB ignored). The deduction has decreased steadily over the last ten years which gives a an indication of the diminishing value of the military pension in real terms. I would guess that a 7% gross deduction is high in comparison to 'civvy st'; anyone want to tell me different?

There is another gotcha in here as well. I served for over 3 years before I reached 21 and my salary was still reduced, even though service before 21 is not pensionable.

JB :confused:

[D-IFF_ident]

I thought we were only non-contributing 6% this year. Interestingly enough, the Civil Servants are contributing 1.5% this year...

[bad livin']

Does anyone know if, having served AS an RAF Officer for 18 months, any pension contributed will carry over now that I have joined the RN?? It's obviously not a huge amount of cash, and non-contrib, but it would be nice to know!

Cheers
BL

Edited thx to eagle eyed Ppruner :cool:

[ 10 July 2001: Message edited by: bad livin' ]

[Dan Winterland]

Any military service past the age of 21 is pensionable.

With regards to the assumed deduction, what about short service guys? They get paid the same as PCs, but don't receive the same pension.

[D-IFF_ident]

bad - was that a freudian slip -'having served an RAF Officer for 18 months'? Or should I be expecting a chap in dark blue to come and polish my shoes etc?

I'm certain your previous service would count though.

If I was on a SSC I think I'd be chatting with http://www.pensions-ombudsman.org.uk/ - to enquire about equality of the workforce etc. Is that another flaw in the pension scheme?

[only1leftmate!]

Those on short service commissions get some of their non-contributions back in the form of an enlarged terminal grant. I can't remember whether the enlarged bit of it is tax-free as the grant for PC leavers is and I haven't done the sums on whether an SSC gets rogered on the deal- but hey, what do you think?

[amyoungz]

I wonder if anyone could update me on the old chestnut of the inclusion of flying pay in the RAF pension calculation. I am aware that a group legal action was being contemplated several years ago - I think that it was under EU legislation that apparently stated that all 'regular' remuneration should be taken into account - but I don't know if it ever flew, or how far it got. Anyone out there know?

[The Mistress]

I do.

[amyoungz]

OK, Mistress. Sorry. I forgot to add the magic words "could you please tell me?". Could you?

Please?

[Paul Wesson]

CG

I was the co-ordinator of the group legal action during 1996-7. We did a lot of research and employed some very expensive legal help. The final conclusion was that there was no chance of success in the courts. All contributors to the action have a copy of counsel's opinion, but I'm not able to share it as the agreement was that only those who contributed to the cost (about £10K) should have copies.

[amyoungz]

Thanks, Paul. Just our luck, eh?

[WibbleOne]

Just a thought, when you look at pension levels of 55 YO Sqn Ldr and 55 YO spec aircrew Flt Lt what do you notice? Not alot of difference. Want to know why? Ask the pensions people at Binnsworth...... .I did.....Apparently part of the spec aircrew flying pay is taken into account

[BEagle]

Paul - what is interesting is that the recent announcement concerning future terms of service revealed that 'Professional Aviator Pay Spine' aircrew will receive a pension based upon 100% of earnings!! They've done this by binning the concept of basic and flying pay for PAPS (nice!) aircrew (the future term for Spec Aircrew) in favour of enhanced total pay. Hence it has been accepted, ipso facto, that such aircrew are indeed entitled to a pension based upon their total earnings - but the rub is that only those with 5 years or more to go to their retirement date can transfer to this scheme - hence a quirk of birth date will disadvantage the rest of us by a not inconsiderable amount. But I believe that there's a legal precedent over such things which may help.....

PS - Keep up the pressure regarding the railway!!

[Flatus Veteranus]

Brakes..beer

"Stay on till 55 and your pension is 2/3 final basic pay..." And my willy's a foot long! If you managed to serve on to 65 you might get 2/3 basic. Most of us get booted out at 55 with 34 years full-time service, when the pension is about 50% basic pay (indexed to RPI). Its all based on Civil Service rates. <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

[Specaircrew]

Yes Beagle but unless I've read the small print incorrectly you have to make it as far as your 55th birthday to get the enhanced pension rate. If for some reason you need to leave a couple of years early you revert to the old specaircrew pension and therefore lose a lot of money! Not much comfort for those of who'll no doubt fail their annual medical at the age of 53 due to Gout!!

[ 05 February 2002: Message edited by: Specaircrew ]</p>

[vstol1]

When reaching the final pension percentage figure of basic pay you have to add to the actual pension a figure of 1/3 of terminal grant. This is how the treasury works out the final percentage to then calculate if anyone who has subscribed to an AVC or FSAVC breaks the 66% limit on final salary. However I am told that anyone in receipt of additional, taxable pay, at retirement can use this real earnings figure to have a pension of 66% using the income from self funded schemes. Doesn't change the fact that ideally all pay should be pensionable by the employer.

Problem is that although there are very strict laws on max. contributions and final pensions etc. there are no laws dictating what an employer has to provide. Normal companies send details of the employment package/pension scheme disability/sickness schemes to prospective employees with the offer of employment. If the company doesn't offer a good package then they won't get the people. Who thought about the retirement package or were even told about it when they applied to join the Military?

[Muff Coupling]

The MOD sponsored Armed Forces Pension Review body are due to report in May this year.

Beware- new arrivals, changes inbound. Crusty's and cabbage smelling lifers, keep leagcy rights. The initial report is interesting reading! <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

[OldBonaMate]

Surely, it's not a pension, but military retired pay? If it is indeed a pension then how can a senior airship retire on a 'pension' equivalent to 100% salary? . .Conclusion1: Senior airships don't retire so there is still an opportunity for Wrotten to resign.. .Conclusion2: If it is military retired pay and NOT a pension then why would there be any restriction other than tight purse strings?

Keep the goal-posts moving and no-one will score!

[lids]

As i understand it pension accrues at 1/60 per year from age 21. Hence at age 38 pension is 28.5 of representative pay

[Loreto]

possible starting point:

<a href="http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/lif/dat/1996/en_396R2223.html" target="_blank">http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/lif/dat/1996/en_396R2223.html</a>