NFTC and the Hawk 115

[Burnout18]

Hey there,

First of, I'm a 2 year Aerospace Engineering student and will be applying to the Canadian Forces for a pilot slot.

I was wondering if anyone here knows how things are going with NFTC right now. I've heard there have been problems, but it sounds like they have been dealt with. From what I have read, this program looks awesome, especially once the "teething" problems are dealt with.

I really look forward to flying the Harvard II, but especially the Hawk. I've been a big fan of it for years, and was quite happy when I learned that they were going to be purchased for NFTC.

What are the anthro limits for the Hawk? I've heard that tall pilots have trouble fitting in it, and that the butt-to-knee length required for the Hawk is shorter than most.

I really want to have a shot at flying the Hawk, and going on to jets in the CF. I'd hate for that not to be possible because I'm too tall! (6'2")

[OldBonaMate]

Hi, Burnout, I work at CYMJ and may be able to help. Send me an e-mail through PPRuNe and I'll fill you in on as much as I can. We have a number of guys here who are over 6'2" so you will probably be OK.

[Burnout18]

OldBonaMate,

I'm not sure how you wanted me to contact you, since I didn't see an email in your profile, or the private message option.

I've got a valid email in my profile, so if you could give me a shout through it, that'd be great.

Thanks!

P.S. how do you like the weather out there? cold enough for ya?!

[Iron City]

The Hawk Tr Mk whatever that became the T-45 for USN was sized (in the cockpit anyway) to meet the anthropometric needs of aircrew, male and female. Don't know how they do it north of the border but the gringos here get measured in all sorts of ways when they enter flight training then these numbers are used to size the aircraft. In early days didn't have much female data (obviously) butthat isn't your problem.

There are ca couple MIL Standards on this, but as I recall 6'2" is not disqualifying tall, but shoulders and C/G are also important. It should get you a spot on the Vollyball team anyway.

[peterward]

If not, just go Douglas Bader style.... <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[peterward]

OBM, what's the weather like in the land of no trees? It sucks here! <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

[Burnout18]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

The measurement I was most concerned about was the butt to knee length, but it sounds like I should be fine.

As for going Douglas Bader style, I read on another forum about a USN student who signed a waiver to that effect, so he could fly jets. He's 6'5", and somehow manages to squeeze in the T-45. of course, not all of him might going along if he has to make a sudden exit!

[15/15 flex]

Not too chipper here either, especially after a few days in Florida!

[OldBonaMate]

Hello BeerMonkey

Actually, its not bad here at all. Bit warmer than it should be but nice and sunny. No doubt we'll pay for it in due course.

BTW, I own a significant proportion of the trees in this part of the world, I have at least 5 in my garden - who said the land of no trees?. . <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[BEagle]

Whatever the weather - I'm sure that it beats the cr@p out of V****y!!

[peterward]

5 trees OBM?! The canines must love your garden. Poopa Scooper anyone? Weather much better today-might get a DCO! <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[Burnout18]

Beermonkey,

I take it your out at cool pool. must be nice! the flying that is, since it is in the middle of nowhere.

I'd much rather be there right now...strapping a jet onto my butt on a regular basis. Someday. Oh well, back to stress analysis...

[peterward]

B18, yes enjoying chilly pond, hope you get the chance one day! Lots of airspace, just have to watch the grizzlies-not all of them live on the range......... . . <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[Huron Topp]

Hey boys,

was out there last February visiting the pond, brought everything but a buffalo robe as I figured it would be its normal chilly self. Shoulda brought the damned golf clubs instead, it was so warm. Here in Lobster Land we had 4 feet of snow at the time (like now).

[Admin Guru]

I note this is NFTC and not NPTC. Are there any plans to train Navigators on the new hawk aswell?

[Huron Topp]

Doubt it. All Canadian Air Nav's go through CFANS. Seeing as we don't have any FJ Navs it's doubtful any NATO ones will be trained here for FJ. I'm assuming that would be done once they hit their own OTUs.

[15/15 flex]

Ah, the mighty Admin Guru raises his ill-informed head above the parapets once more....

No, as Mr Topp said, the CF have no FJ navs, and the ones they do have may well have limited time, given the Herc AUP (does it really still need a nav?), the CC150 and the (probable) purchase of C-17, or similar, in the next few years. Given that the replacement for the Buff will doubtlessly be nav-less as well, the future (10 years hence) looks less than rosy....

Did I mention that CF pilots are on a different basic (pensionable) pay scale than their nav counterparts? Now there's a thought....

Anyway Mr AG, they make an excepyion and take you at Winterpeg...Given your recent anti-aircrew rants, I'm not sure you'll find much sympathy or flex in the RAF system.

[KD]

A little Harsh on our Blunt mate don`t you think Flex ?

The guy asked if NFTC ( he knew the F meant flying !! ) planned to train Navigators . It seems from previous threads he is up for the branch change and if anyone knows how to get all the LSSA and LOA sorted out surely it`s him.

Not unreasonable to think that Nav`s could be trained on a Hawk ( happens somewhere else , just can`t quite put my finger on where .. . . .) Just cos Canada hasn`t got any FJ Nav`s what about the rest of the participants ?

AG , in reply , no plans as of yet that I know of . Either way , I look fwd to seeing you in Elgin soon ??!!??!?!

[KD]

Beags

Wx is significantly better than the Isle but didn`t notice LLangefni getting down to -38 when I was there !!

[Huron Topp]

Proabably the only place "Navs" will be used is in the MPA world. CFANS changed their old course finally in '98 to reflect the fact that there just ain't alot of nav left for Navs to do.

According to CFANS they have trained Navs from other countries, Singapore, Germany, and some Kiwis. More than likely though, headed for MP.

The Buff...brought a tear to my eye that did. What a wonderful, yet uneconomical, piece of kit for the SAR world.

[ 11 February 2002: Message edited by: Huron Topp ]</p>

[Flt Lt Spry]

The Hawk 115 was intended for the Middle East where the general populus is somewhat shorter than Western Civilisation. As a result, the straps are rather short and the rudder pedals quite far back. RAF Hawks had the rudder pedal travel extended, resulting in lanky mates landing with their toes on the brakes and popping the tyres but the Hawk 115 has not been modified yet. It is not a real problem, even for the big fellows, there's just not too much room for fatties...

It is an awesome jet - like the fastest car you have ever driven but it goes up and down too.

[BEagle]

Not much room? Try the Folland Pocket Rocket for size.....now that was tight! Particularly in bunny suit (old style), internal turning trousers and external goon suit!

[Not BVR]

BEagle - is there anything you haven't flown?!! Were you a stude on the Gnat or was it an instructional tour after AFT on the Meteor?

[BEagle]

Harsh banter!! No - I was a student on the Gnat and my Meatbox time was all in the back of WA669 'Clementine' (the Meteor T7 at Brawdy) whilst Puddy and others towed banners for my fellow Hunter students to shoot at!

Other old jets? In the coal hole of a 'Vixen in '66 as a CCF (army) cadet thanks to OC 892 - and he also gave me a lift back from Lossie to Yeovilton in a Sea Vampire in '69 when I was a Cranwell cadet. Didn't have the heart to tell him that my flying at the time amounted to 35 hrs Cessna 150 as he let me fly it for the whole trip bar the landing!

Then there was the JP, the Hunter, the Buccaneer, the Vulcan, the F4, the VC10....and a PAR in a B52!

[ 13 February 2002: Message edited by: BEagle ]</p>

[Fox_4]

Again BEagle adopts hero status with his million hrs on numerous types. Nice

<img src="cool.gif" border="0"> :) <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[peterward]

Beags, I take it the "airframe" is limited to 1.1g now.....!!!! <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[BEagle]

Not if I can get hold of something with more than a +1.35 Gz limit, it isn't! Now and again my flying club hires something in which one can turn one's bum to the sun.....and then the horns come out, as they say! Oh for the opportunity to do some tailchasing again.......

You can take the man out of the fighter, but never the other way around!

[Cooperman]

We Grad 4 more RAF mates from NFTC today.

All 4 OCUs benefit from the latest batch - good luck fellas and hope to see you back here for Maple Flag sometime.

:)

[peterward]

Thanks for freeing up the program chaps! All the best back in Blighty, enjoy the Burner action (except Viff Viff chocolate milk loser.....!) Check Six-you never know where I'll pop up next...... <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[Cooperman]

How about popping up for work? <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[peterward]

Coops-Hard at work as always serving Queen and Country...... <img src="wink.gif" border="0">