Enough is enough

[knocked down]

This time, I will not renew my CPL ME/IR.
Already two "No Thank You" interviews this year. Where fellow friends, with less hours, busted countless skilltest got the job.

So, this time, I do not have the money or the attitute to send out CV and countinue this aviation career.

The brutal truth, owing money to the bank, no jobs, nothing to fall back on.

If I know what I known now...
Should have gone a different path...


:ugh:

[Abagnale]

In the current climate only the strongest survive...Sorry,you are just not one of them ;) Good for the rest though,less moaners=more chances to find a job.

[FrankAbagnale]

Why are you telling the whole world about it ?:\

[knocked down]

Well, it's more about quality of life in my case.
I do not have the money to keep renew my licenses.

I rather buy myself a decent apartment, a better car.

[Abagnale]

So? Buy yourself whatever you want,the only thing you can't buy is patience...And we don't want to know any other details of your miserable life. Good luck :}

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

If its any consolation you're joining a vast army of ex-Wannabes who attained a CPL but never found piloting employment. It is a silent army and therefore rarely noted or acknowledged.

Best of luck in whichever direction you head next.


WWW

[v6g]

Amazing how callous the other comments are. Most are still in the denial and anger stages. You've made it to the acceptance stage.

To the original poster - Remember, you will still hold a CPL so you can return to it in a few years time, if good times return.

I commend you for the decision to put mistakes behind you and move on with your life, and particularly so to state it publicly. That takes guts.

Once you have established yourself in a proper profession you may want to consider returning to aviation as a hobby, get an instructor rating and have fun at the weekends - lots of people do that.

Good luck.

[Pace152]

I totally agree with v6, theres comes a point where you do have to say enough is enough and to carry on becomes self defeating. This aviation thing takes so much out of you in terms of money and commitment that it really hurts to think that enough is enough and it takes guts to think that.

Failing an interview (especially in this environment) feels like you've just been kicked in the nads, especially when I reckon alot of the time its not so much the person being interviewed that isnt good enough its just that for whatever reason you dont have a good interview.

[MADTASS]

"Why are you telling the whole world about it"

It"s an open discussion forum.
I think this is how it works, someone post a Statement or Question and others try to Console / Answer or even offer Support. To be Totally Disregarding and Callous about His/Her situation is not being Helpful to anyone and one Wonders whether you Apply this kind of Attitude to the People you work with.
It"s little wonder this Country is so Depressed with that kind of Personality Wandering Around.
Perish the thought that your ever in His situation.
I could be wrong, but i think i know this Guy and you couldn"t meet a nicer person.

[Flintstone]

Abagnale.

I first hoped that your posts here were a clumsy attempt at reverse psychology but having now looked at your venomous outpourings on other threads clearly they're not. You really are a nasty little piece of work, aren't you?

Stop gloating and leave the guy/girl alone. In fact, do us all a favour and find somewhere else to spew your bile.

[b.a. Baracus]

And we don't want to know any other details of your miserable life. Good luck

That's a bit much, no need! :eek:

[woodcoc2000]

Abagnale

the original poster has just come out and said he has made the decision everyone has thought about it.. in this climate if you havnt at least thought of jacking it all in then you just arent thinking; period.. I have had my share of dissappointment and un-employment due to things beyond my control this past year and believe me i thought about it.. saying that aviation is only for the strong and therefore those who leave must be weak is only something a complete tit would imply..

to the original poster; well done in making such a choice. wasnt very easy and like someone else here has said you still have a CPL and can return should you ever want to.

[smith]

knocked down sounds like A320driver or ronconner, pigeon english moaning and a new poster, I smell a rat.

[thebeast]

you re not alone

i also know 3 friends who after obtaining a 'frozen' ATPL they couldnt find job , have let their licences lapse and now persue other careers.

Would be interesting to know how many CAA issued cpls are out there that have now lapsed...i think it will be a high number!

[antonov09]

Your post was totally uncalled for. As flintstone said you are a nasty piece of work.

[Rob1975]

Abagnale, apparently you are a captain, who has previously replied to someone you didn't agree with in a previous thread, that you will make "their life hell" if they ever are in the RHS in your a/c...agree with above posters..........:ugh:

[Abagnale]

There are some categories of people who always complain about everything and there are people who make things happen...We all know that it's not the best time for low houred pilots regarding job prospects.So,if you're extremely lucky,talented or rich there's a slim chance of getting hired even now.Otherwise all you can do is just work somewhere else and try to be current by the time when things improve...There's absolutely no need to call for compassion...It just shows that you're not committed enough...

[eph6]

knocked down... hopefully over the next couple of years you might see some more optimism creeping into the industry. Things are flat and depressed at the moment. However no winter lasts forever. Good luck.

abagnale ...Totally unnecessary. Sad and embarrassing. Here's one for you... you'll relate perfectly well to it. “I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature (http://thinkexist.com/quotation/i_do_not_see_why_man_should_not_be_just_as_cruel/189065.html)” adolf Hitler.

[dboy]

Knocked down,

let me refer to a post i made a few years ago:

http://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/190987-sick.html

Anno 2009 i'm flying the lear with a nice salary. AND yes it could happen to you if you just stop moaning and use your energy for flying.

Good luck.

[Nearly There]

Knocked down, chin up, easy to say I know.
You are doing something right by at least being invited for a couple of interviews, you must have something about you that an employer likes, its just another step to sort out the interview stuff, maybe look at working on where it went wrong, did you get any feedback from them afterwards?

[Flintstone]

Abagnale.

Nowhere did knocked down "call for compassion". In fact he/she seems to have been quite pragmatic about the whole thing.

Someone wrote that you're a captain? At least have the balls to apologise.

[TheBeak]

Knocked down, good on you for not throwing good money after bad, like buying a TR and some line hours, I am sure you could find a loved one who would put it on the house if you whinged and black mailed enough. I know your feeling very, very, very, very well, it is tough at the moment. V6gs advice is very good. You know why you decided to go down this route and if you wanted to then, I am sure you still want it now. I read on here something that stuck with me a few years back:

'Winners never quit and quitters never win'

Keep it in your mind.

To be as fair as one can be to the industry, it is going through the worst period in its history and the last 6 months (i.e. May to October) are the worst time to apply for pilot jobs in the Northern Hemisphere, even in a good year. Make sure you give yourself a fair test.

Abagnale, your words are unnecessary, I appreciate the tack you may have been taking (giving you the benefit of the doubt) but don't kick people when they are down, kick people when they do things like jump queues and ruin opportunities for others by being artificially cheaper.

[Abagnale]

To Flinstone: Apologise for what?This is an open place for discussion,right?I've got my point of view and it might seem a bit rough,but that's just the way I see it.Life is not a fairy tale,unfortunately.

[Pace152]

Abagnale if you are a captain why dont you tell us how you made it to your current position?

Did you have to struggle at all or did you just get lucky?

If you struggled and perservered I will have some respect for what you say (not the way you say it) but if you just got lucky then maybe you dont know what its really like to be in knocked downs position.

[Flintstone]

Abagnale.

The fact that you have to ask speaks volumes as do your other posts here. There are ways of putting ones opinion across, and ways of not doing so. I can see you're someone who revels in attention whether it be positive or otherwise. Very clever.

[Abagnale]

TheBeaK,I totally agree with your statement regarding the winners and I am not trying to kick anybody,just expressing a different point of view...It took me almost 10 years to get that first flying job,I just didn't have sufficient funds to pay for the training after school,went through college,worked for several years and did the training part-time,spread over a period of 5 years,during which I only had enough money to eat and pay for rent.No social life,no weekends,no friends... But I never complained about anything,never ever thought of quitting. "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger".

[Flintstone]

It took me almost 10 years to get that first flying job,I just didn't have sufficient funds to pay for the training after school,went through college,worked for several years and did the training part-time,spread over a period of 5 years,during which I only had enough money to eat and pay for rent.No social life,no weekends,no friends... But I never complained about anything,never ever thought of quitting.

....we don't want to know any other details of your miserable life.


Sometimes this stuff just writes itself.

[Anne.Nonymous]

Knocked down
Sorry to hear the way it has turned out so far and the best of luck in the future.

Abagnale
Great choice of moniker BTW!
Wiki
Abagnale, Jr. (born April 27, 1948) is an American security consultant best known for his history as a former confidence trickster, check forger, skilled impostor and escape artist

The tone and content of your post, not only in this thread, show you have a lot in common with your namesake!

Anne:)

[irishone]

Knocked you need to hang in there. I'm 13 months finished now and not even a whisper of a job interview. Cant get anything. Key is to keep yourself positive and keep your licenses current.
Get a job, doing whatever! It's money. It'll pay for your currency and renewals. I just renewed the MEIR last week, some say I'm mad the way things are. But I figure I'm interview ready for whenever the time comes.
You've got two interviews and havent gotten through. That's hard luck. But at least you've been called for two!
So you come across well on paper, maybe not so well in person. Get yourself in the right frame of mind and start again. Figure out what and where you're going wrong. Maybe meet with someone who knows about interviewing people and see what they say. If it's the simcheck that's getting to you, do some sim time if you cant afford it get flight sim. First things first get your license renewed. You can do the IR on the sim which makes it much cheaper.
You've worked so hard to get your license, dont give up at the first hurdle. If it was easy everyone would be doing it, so keep the head and dont give up...yet! :)

[McBruce]

Keep the chin up mate! we're going through the worst recession since records began: I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet but more or less take a step back for a year while keeping one eye on the ball, help remove the stress, just don't let you're IR lapse over 5 years otherwise (if I remember) you need to do the ATPL theory again.

[adverse-bump]

you managed to get 2 interviews this year!!! and failed both of them.

this tells us all two things about you (3 really)

1)your very good at selling yourself in letter
2)once employer meet you they must see your a knob!

number 3 is what I suspect is the only bit of truth I can get out of you post

you lying!!!! you have joined pprune just to knock other people back and put them of flying.

[Akrapovic]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abagnale
It took me almost 10 years to get that first flying job,I just didn't have sufficient funds to pay for the training after school,went through college,worked for several years and did the training part-time,spread over a period of 5 years,during which I only had enough money to eat and pay for rent.No social life,no weekends,no friends... But I never complained about anything,never ever thought of quitting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abagnale
....we don't want to know any other details of your miserable life.


Sometimes this stuff just writes itself.

How I laughed Flint! :ok:

[knocked down]

First of all, thank you for all good suggestion; I did not start this thread begging for sympatiy. I will not further comment on why I did not get eighter of the jobs. But I sure worked hard to get there.

What it all comes down to, in my case, I see fellow friends, not in the aviation business, have started to invest in nice apartments have good jobs. I’m stuck in a rat hole, and all my hard earned money goes towards renewal after renewal.

So this thread was a frustration act, so this year, I probably will let the renewal pass….

[wayupthere]

i was in the same place as TheBeak, failed 2 interviews. Then I did a class on how to interview properly and then passed my next 2 interviews, maybe worth a thought?
Always stay ready for an interview, I had a call to do one the next day once, was one of the ones i passed :}

[BoeingMEL]

Maybe you could use the next year or so constructively? How about you get together with Madtass and Reverse Bump to book some English tuition? Did you 3 guys all play truant together? Based upon what you guys have written I wouldn't employ you to sweep the hangar floor! Don't you boys realise that carelessness kills in this business! OFFS! :ugh: Good Luck anyway.

[Abagnale]

2 Anne.Nonymous (http://www.pprune.org/members/19328-anne-nonymous) : Sorry,Anne,I am married ;)

2 Everybody else:Ladies and gentelmen,you can say whatever you want but the truth is so obvious:The guy doesn't want to fly,he wants a big house,a nice car and a top model wife,didn't you get it yet?

Here are the key words:
What it all comes down to, in my case, I see fellow friends, not in the aviation business, have started to invest in nice apartments have good jobs.

Well, it's more about quality of life in my case.

I rather buy myself a decent apartment, a better car.

[Bealzebub]

Everybody else:Ladies and gentelmen,you can say whatever you want but the truth is so obvious:The guy doesn't want to fly,he wants a big house,a nice car and a top model wife,didn't you get it yet?

I am not sure some of you have "got it yet." The poster is fed up. It is as simple as that. Whatever he decides to do ultimately, he is simply exasperated. This is something that is going to become much more common in the near future. An ATPL or CPL/IR is not only a very expensive thing to procure, it is also a very expensive thing to maintain.

This forum is called "wannabes." It is not about people who want to fly for the pure thrill of being in the air, or view flying as some sort of religion. It as about people who want to make a career out of professional aviation. It is an intrinsic part of that career, that they utilize it to aquire the lifestyle they believe it should afford them. What is unusual about people aspiring to a big house or a nice car? When you see your classmates or compatriots achieving these things in their own lives, it can be quite depressing that your own choices have not yielded the same fruits.

So no the truth isn't that obvious. Wanting a lifestyle doesn't in any way equate to " the guy doesn't want to fly." I think a few of you need a serious reality check. However that shouldn't be a concern, because it is heading your way whether you are ready or not.

[FrankAbagnale]

:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}:}

[knocked down]

Bealzebub: You said it all..

[heli_port]

I throughly understand the frustrations of the orginal poster. I have many friends that have gained their licenses (high atpl percentages, first series pass) that have had enough and left aviation for good. One is a second year med student, another a phd student, another took a if you can't beat-em join em attitude and retrained to be a city trader, another is an accountant, another emigrated to new zealand and is not a sheep farmer etc (i could go on). All the people that i know were all integrated bar one. Some like me have gone on to fly but it's only a few. You could always find another career keep flying on the weekends for pleasure. Good luck.

[aquamon]

Do like me, don't depend on other people controlling your destiny/future. Instead, make them depend on you, as your customers.

In other words, START YOUR OWN COMPANY!

[Turkish777]

This type of post sounds familiar, blast from the past..Deja vu....Similar to one by an old friend of ours A320Ryder...I think he have had another identity too, Spaceman or something???

Anyway same negativity and context....It also seems a bit strange to write all that for your your first post?? and you only subscribed yesterday??..One would have thought you may have asked for some advice on here prior to this submission...

Sorry dont believe a word of it...

[ford cortina]

You trolling turkish????
When are we going to have the pleasure of your companmy down here mate.

Sorry for drift, Knocked down sorry to hear it, but that happens so much, it took me several years to get in along with many others i know.:ok:

[sbetts]

I let my ME/IR lapse a couple of years ago, had tried for 5 years to get a job, I was so focused on trying, I let everything else slip, I turned into a bitter cynical git.
I am totally relieved now that I let it go, looking back I can't really see why I was so desperate to get into a career full of equally bitter people, laughable T&C's, and the prospect of living in a hotel.
I now do what I should have done in the first place - fly for pleasure, under my terms.

Good luck Knocked down. :)

[student88]

In other words, START YOUR OWN COMPANY!

- one that's not fossil fuel dependant!

[happyjack]

Abagnale's attitude is just what is so wrong in this industry.

"It's all me me me. I want to fly so I'll spit on you, walk all over you and accept any T'c & C's to be ahead of you. If you don't like it you are a winger and not commited enough. When I'm working I'll stab you in the back at the first opportunity so there's less competition or maybe just for fun.
I'll show you that my ego is bigger than your house and that I know all there is to know about aviation."

If we could just get rid of the abanale's in this business we all might stand 1/2 a chance of having an enjoyable, rewarding, secure career!

[student88]

Amen happy jack.

Amen.

[pacole]

I cant believe some of the comments to the original post. :=We have all been there trying to get that first job. I remember well the training schools saying it will take 1 1/2 years and then the companies will be queing up to give you the right hand seat and a fat cheque. All rubbish. I eventually got there but only with six years of various training. wasted money. Flight instruction for peanuts and then buying a type rating and line training. I was lucky with a father who could lend the money for the type and line training with no idea when he will get paid back. Now after two years i have been laid off. At least i have a 1000 hours on type so a better chance. But in this climate who knows. So I just wish the training schools would give the wanabees a more realistic idea of their chances and the pitfalls of this line of work and stop showing fresh faced guys in glossy mags with their raybays and smug smiles. Its all rubbish. Your better of going for the x factor - you have more chance of winning that at the moment and at least you get a better contract with simon cowell. :*

[Rob1975]

knocked_down, do not despair! There are doom-mongers on here who will tell of no jobs 'till 2035 et al.. what are you doing now,work-wise?

Can you not get into instructing/GA side?

Rob1975

[TheBeak]

Can you not get into instructing/GA side?

I am sure he/she can 'get into' instructing/GA side - provided he/she has a CPL (possibly and IR) and the ability to pay for an FI rating.

The question of whether he/she will 'get into' it is a completely different one. With an almost certain answer of no. And suggesting someone pays £6-7K for an FI rating to get 'part time' work which pays £250 a month is easier said than done.

Where has this myth come from that everyone will only resort to a Cargo, GA or a Flying instructor job if they are on the verge of losing everything and have no other option? Or that it hasn't occured to us to try these other branches of commercial aviation? If I get asked whether I would consider flying instruction of flying 'little private jets' again I think I will scream.

[Rob's Dad]

Beak

Have you considered instructing or flying little private jets?

:}

RD

[Jonty]

I don't know why your all so surprised, back in the hiring boom days of the mid 2000s 75% of people who took an initial class one medical never achieved an ATPL. Why should now be any different?

[McNulty]

Beak,

Have you considered flying instruction or flying little private jets?

[TheBeak]

I am screaming.

[Halfwayback]

That's true!:} :ok:

HWB

[Adios]

Some people work hard to be arses, but for some, it just comes naturally. It makes me wonder if Abagnale's real name has an O'Leary in it. Not the big M, he's too busy toying with BBC reporters for Pprune, but the family resemblance is striking.

[WMB]

This thread started with a fairly simple question,"When do I give up?", and has turned into the usual PPRUNE squabble. If we are honest we have all been in that postion, some of us can say we came so close to giving up, but kept the faith and everything worked out. Others I know, had a very different result, not because they were bad pilots or people, but because they just never got a break. Unfortunately PPRUNE, is NOT the place to look for answers to this question. It is only you who knows how much you want to fly, and how much time and money you can devote to achieve your goal. To quote a rather corny line from the Rocky films " It ain't how hard you can hit, it's how many times you can get hit and still get up!" So I ask you, are you out for the count?

[knocked down]

Then office job is a reality; 43.000 euro a year, home everyday, free cellphone.

Have I done the right thing. Not sure.

[WMB]

By the time you know, it will be too late to change, hope you have made the right choice.........:hmm: