Big announcement at Lyneham on Tuesday

[SET 18]

We have all been called to a VERY important announcement by Harry on Tuesday. The rumours as to why range from the imminent disbandment of 2 Sqns to the "route only" status of 47 Sqn. I know it is foolish to speculate, but does anyone out there have any idea as to what the Stn Cdr is going to say? I have heard several rumours but would like to hear what anyone else thinks. By all accounts though, there are some MAJOR changes on the way.

[BEagle]

No more C130Js?
The time-expired C130Ks will be scrapped?
Only sufficient crews will be needed to fly the remaining few C130Ks; the rest will be 'relocated'?
Major works service programme for the A400M?
Swindon International Airport?
Free pies for life?
The OCU will go and LTF will take its place?
The army have finally realised that it did't work at Arnhem, Suez or the Kiel canal and that mass para drops are as appropriate in the 21st century as cavalry charges - so you'll only drop you-know-who from Albert on special ops?
No more passengers will ever be carried in the C130 - except for the aforementioned 'special passengers' - so the scale of 'route' flying will be massively reduced to purely that needed to carry freight on intra-theatre tasks?

Who knows. But at least it seems that you're being told upfront rather than through osmosis. Guess you'll just have to wait - but do tell when you've found out.

Best wishes to all at the secret Wiltshire airbase down WootyB way.

[The Gorilla]

Good Luck, but please do tell!!

[Shouting Rad-Alt]

Moving on from BEagle -
Therefor, all the xs ALM's get to go rotary. This ties in well with the Odiham move to Yeo' no more manning problems for the Boeing death Banana!!!!

[Crab Fat]

Never say never. A coy/coy+ sized para drop could be used in peace support operations to secure a bridgehead.

I do agree that the 'total war' mass para drop days may well be done.

Remember the maroon machine battle honours:

Arnhem, Farnham, Crete, Fleet, and Hankley Common.

[6nandneutral]

Hows about
1. Lend us 5 mil to help with my budget.
2. Close Lyneham for developmnent (housing, industrial estate etc, and sell Brize to Richard Branston and move any transport fleet left and re-open fairford as a central transport base so that all of our transport assets could be taken out at any time with one big bomb.
3. Close the OCU.
4. Stop TS or should I say TAC AT.
5. Close The secret base in wiltshire for a month and save a few quid.
After all this is a Rumour Network.

[VP8]

They are replacing it all with the AN124 to be based at MSE!!!!!!

[BEagle]

So if Lyneham's capability gets smaller, will there be any parallel cuts at the top in 2Gp?

"Ahh - we have to tread carefully here. In the deep blue water of jointery we hear what you say but need to be proactive here in the light of the big picture" = NO.

PS - I guess 'MSE' is mover-speak for EGUM??


[This message has been edited by BEagle (edited 10 June 2001).]

[VP8]

Beags..

I think it' EGMH in ICAO MSE in IATA speak

[BEagle]

OK - Manston then! EGUM was what it was called when HMFC operated the place; now it's London(Manston) or some such joke name, I guess they've changed the ICAO locator code to EGMH.
But better that than the baggage-handlers trigraphs in common use nowadays by people-tube aircrew!!

[T_Handle]

I'm starting the rumour that 24 Sqn (or sould I say XXIV Sqn) are going to be detached to Akro in the summer and Cape Canavral in the winter!!! ....oh yes and we are all going to get £30,000 pay rise for being bloody nice blokes!

You know the old prophesy... start a rumour and it is bound to come true!

love and kisses and keep on truckin

T


Happiness is 70 tons and a HUD

[VP8]

Beagle..

I also remember it in those heady days of my time in Her Majesties Flying Club.

Regards
VP8

[fobotcso]

Well, it's nearly Tuesday. I hope this is going to be good. Please will someone give us all the gen tomorrow. The suspense is almost unbearable!

[Stress Snake]

It's Tuesday, so what happened????

[yodason45]

Sounds like a damp squib! Either that or the boys are so pissed off(or pleased)that Harry opened the bar and we won't hear till tomorrow! By the way, official, Hotel Saif Suriaya, for Seeb, is an Air Conditioned tent. Have fun but few allowances.

[Suit]

Well!

Pie sales are going to be WELL down in the vicinity of a certain secret transport base in W*******e in the near future, aren't they!

You can always join MFTS????????


------------------
If the suit fits.........

[FJJP]

So what happened?

[Stress Snake]

ooohhh please tell me..... The suspense is killing me.

[snaggletooth]

Come on, one of you FPBs put us out of our misery!? :)

------------------
Lend me £10, I'll buy you a drink & Mother wake me early in the morning...

[Cy Nichol]

It goes something like this: Lockheed screwed up by being late with the J which caused Binnsworth, who can’t count, to screw up the manning levels meaning too many pilots and barely enough flying for currency. So big slim down of the station, total re-org of sqns. Keep spare pilots just now for safes ‘R’ us then bin ‘em after coz we only need them for a big exercise or a war… doh!

All because of Lockheed…….. Bloody Americans eh!

[Rude Kid]

Apparently today some guys from new 'Odds and Sods' sqn couldn't fly due to Auths' worries about "Mental anguish" following Harry's bombshell!!

Morale,bloody luxury!

[This message has been edited by Rude Kid (edited 13 June 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Rude Kid (edited 13 June 2001).]

[Gainesy]

What is the deal are they going to chop/combine Sqns/roles or what?
SS You still got a job?

[Stress Snake]

Gainsey, I'm from West Oxfordshires finest non-nuclear proliferation base, so we're ok (at the mo!). Heard several bits of gen floating around today on the mate-vine about gardening leave for some and J/K sqns, but no hard facts/figures etc

[Cy Nichol]

It’s a wonder folk aren’t leaving with man management like this.

Hey wait a minute, that would solve the problem ‘bulge’ of pilots and save us finding them jobs – aren’t we clever.

So lets bugger ‘em around some more……

[ewe.lander]

Some awful decisions made yesterday at Lyneham.The 'K' Sqns and their respective Eng support had got something going 'southside',the 'J' had all it's crews and support northside - so I suppose somebody had to ruin it, and mix it all back up.

First time I ever felt sorry for a Nav! OC 47 has shown a rare quality in the Air Force today - downwards loyalty to his crews, though when the rest of the heirachy finish, I cannot see him getting his crews decent postings.

Who needs Innsworth? These boys are organising our futures on the back of a fag packet!

[Gainesy]

SS
Expect soonest a delegation from the Defence Pie Manufacturer's Ascotiation
What TF are they going to pull next?
Rankers! (Pron as JASDF exchange mate)

[StopStart]

The “announcement” concerned reallocation of sqn tasks and roles as well the current overmanning situation and lack of currency we face here at the Secret Wiltshire Air Base.

As far as I am aware this is not the end of the world as we know it. Yes the decisions being made about what sqns do what do seem a bit odd and yes we do appear to have 5 sqns where we once had 4. At the same time, the current over manning we (K sqns) are suffering is, as the staish said, becoming unworkable and something had to be done.

Let’s be blunt here. Delays on the J conversion (it would be difficult blaming that on anyone at Lyneham) and the continued churning out of K captains from the Heinz 57 Varieties sausage factory has meant that the K sqns are hugely over-manned (captains-wise) and there is a lot of thumb twiddling going on. I’ve had a sim and a day trip in the last 44 days. An ideal level of tasking for a first tourist captain I think you’ll agree. Not.

At the same time the J sqns are hugely undermanned (and hugely overworked) as JCTF struggles to get crews onto the sqn in the numbers the sqn needs. Additionally, as the J “has to be seen to be doing” useful things, it gets the thick end of the tasking (8 crews getting 50% of the stn route tasking I believe – that may be an exaggeration but it’s not far off).

So what to do? As has been suggested already - start pushing the excess K Captains and ALMs into short term holding jobs and detachments. These would be the people awaiting a J course and frankly it does make some sense for them to stop flying the K so that those staying on the K can at least get some continuity. There will probably also be some early postings to other types and CFS etc.

The other mad and radical suggestion would be to admit that there have been delays, face facts and reduce J tasking, passing it back onto the K. This would up the tasking for the K boys allowing more continuity whilst at the same time taking some of the pressure off the J boys. This won’t happen because of what we laughing call “politics”. Ho hum.

It is worth pointing out that there is going to be a shortfall of ME pilots (especially experienced ones) within the next 2 years or so. Mass sackings are, therefore, probably not the order of the day.

There was always going to be a big bun fight when the J came on line at Lyneham, we all knew that. The suggested rationalisations of sqns have caused a bit of head scratching and seem to generate little more than a new Lyneham telephone directory. Yes, certain people and certain sqns are going to be hacked off but that always going to be the case. How and if the “new” system will work is, frankly, open to debate. On the issue of over manning, those of us sitting around the sections wondering if man really can fly, would really have to have been kidding ourselves if we thought something along these lines wouldn’t happen.

It is however a fairly safe bet that Wiltshire Pie Industires will remain a safe long-term investment.

PS. No, I don’t have a J course and no I have no idea what’s going to happen to me postings wise. I’m a first tourist K captain and do not expect to get a second tour K. However, 36 months of holding in the trg system, has taught me to expect nothing and receive it in abundance. That said I do expect to receive a rubber dicking of RAF-personnel-management style proportions over the next few months and I can probably guarantee that.

Still, at least the weather’s nice.

[Dan Winterland]

Er, have you seen this weekend's forecast?

[Stress Snake]

Stopstart. Thanks for clearing up the mystery. Good luck with the changes mate.

Best regards from West Oxfordshires non-nuclear proliferation airfield.

[The Mighty Hunter]

Well after all this surely the RAF will streamline their proceedure to integrate a new aircraft with an old one more smoothly. And ever the optimist i can expect the transition from Nimrod MR2 to Nimrod MRA4 to be extra specially smooth, all because of lessons learnt from this fiasco.......

YEAH RIGHT, Kinloss will be in as much poo as Lyneham in about 5 Years time (definitely the optimist)

Sorry to change the subject slightly, but still relevant i think.

Bye for now

[Cy Nichol]

Couple of points;

SS, it's all very well giving J tasking to the K but what are they going to use, wheelbarrows?

So we can reduce the station aircrew establishmnent by 20%(?) and still have the same no of Wingcos and Sqn Ldrs - jobs for the boys?

PS. At least everyone's forgotten about the Classics on a Wing fiasco.

[StopStart]

Cy

Fair point about the lack of Ks although chances are if we actually used the things instead of leaving on the pan for weeks on end then they might actually work. Who knows...

The manning issue is surely just a transitory thing. As has been suggested, the K is currently manned at 3 crews per aircraft instead of the established 2:1. At the same time the J is manned nearly 1 crew to 3 aircraft. It's mostly going to be a case of taking the excess K crews and retraining onto the J. As I said earlier, the reason we have an excess of K crews is that people are backing up waiting for a J course; simple as that really.
Once JCTF starts pushing out more J crews then the K excess will disappear, eventually leading, no doubt, to a shortage of ME pilots :)

As regards jobs for the boys I agree entirely. Some of the suggested sqn moves smell highly of horse-trading and job creation schemes... We do not need 5 sqns. The suggested South side plot frankly makes little or no sense.

[RompersGreen]

In fact there will be a new Wg Cdr appointment announced soon.

Wg Cdr T-Shirts (Wg Cdr TS) will be responsible for co-ordinating T-Shirt policy (TS Pol) at the Secret Wiltsire Airbase. This has been necessary due to the numerous changes in T-shirt colour experianced over the past 2 years and the changes that will now be be caused by the big reshuffle.

This will be a high profile position in view of the obsession with T-shirt colour of certain senior officers at said Secret Wiltshire Airbase. The gapping of 2 junior officer posts in order to pay for the new appointment is seen to be a small price to pay.

[Jackonicko]

Ewe Lander,

So what has OC 47 done? Please blow his trumpet! Sounds like a senior officer who knows his @rse from his elbow.

Stop Start,

So what has the reorganisation meant what Sqns now do what? Do tell.

[StopStart]

Any suggested sqn reorganisations will not take place for a while yet (well a couple of months anyway). I'd rather not be the one to say who's doing what until it's been round the houses a few times and all the details thrashed out. Suffice it to say no sqns are closing (although one should be).

Can't say what OC47 said/did as I wasn't there when he said it...

[sad sad sad]

Why are all you Brize people so concerned about events at Lyneham? Are you just seeking ammunition for more silly snipes about OUR new aircraft?

[Cy Nichol]

Too much fact getting into the rumour net just now, how's this for the latest?

Seemingly none of the big re-org may happen yet, I heard that Harry didn't check it out with the Star Council first and they're shaking their heads.

Wonder if he'll have a job to come back to.

[StopStart]

Like I said, Cy, no point commenting on what's being done 'til it's been round the houses a bit....

Wouldn't be at all surprised if it went pear-shaped though! :)

[SinglePin]

Wanted new rudder for secret Wilts airbase, old rudder unreliable and provides unpredictable handling. Hope Harry had holiday insurance, it's expensive to cancel!

[SinglePin]

Wanted new rudder for secret Wilts airbase, old rudder unreliable and unpredictable. Hope Harry had holiday insurance, it's expensive to cancel.

Bugger how did that happen?

[This message has been edited by SinglePin (edited 15 June 2001).]

[ButtonOut]

ewelander
Your never to late for a career push, any more news from the fighting 47th?

[Zorba the Doc]

So, more fodder for messrs BA and Virgin????

[This message has been edited by Zorba the Doc (edited 15 June 2001).]

[lowflier]

How about sending a few K captains over to Canada? We could use the help until your J mess is sorted!

[StopStart]

lowflier - where do I sign?

[sad sad sad]

lowflier, describe J mess... Over!

Are you an expert?

[lowflier]

Being a lowly E and H model driver I must confess that I am no expert on the J. I have followed the program from the outset and have found it very entertaining. I can only hope that by the time our 40,000hr hercs are finally replaced that our commonwealth brethern have paved the road to transition.

As for sending your excess Captains to Canada I was only half joking - we truly are quite short of Captains in all our Sqns. The airlines have done well by our military and the bleeding, although somewhat stemmed, continues. I understand there was just a high-level meeting at 1 CAD, our HQ, between the grown-ups and the Sqn COs. The problem is further exacerbated by the fact that a signing bonus, given to pilots three years ago ($50-75K), will expire in two years. MANY will be departing then.

We do have an exchange Nav position with Lyneham, but sadly no pilots. Perhaps this is the perfect time?

[beamer]

Been away from Lyneham for a while now - could somebody post a list of those senior
officers who are in charge of respective
squadrons at the moment - oh yes and the
staish as well - just for interest to see
who stayed in and beat the system.

cheers

nb. the old Mk1/Mk3's were knackered when I
left ten years ago !

[Cy Nichol]

Beamer

All changing so fast even Innsworth can't keep up.

New paint on 1s & 3s seems to be holding them together.

Need shorter urinal drains though.

Regards

[RubiC Cube]

Cy Nichol,

So what was the fiasco with the Classic on the Wing?

[mr ripley]

BTW what exactly is the problem?

mr ripley

[StopStart]

ACM, sir.

I think we All know whAt the result wAs but it would unwise to discuss it in A plAce like this.

[AirScream]

Classics on a wing fiasco - I didn't think so. Turned up - ate, drank, sang, waved what a great night. Good to see a huge range of RAF equipment especially the big stuff slow flypast at sunset.

My only criticism would be that no one knew when the flying would start as it was not on the ticket, subsequently missed the Reds entirely. Overall a great laugh. The conductor was something else, instead of the staid baton twicthing norm he was Can-Canning in a Union Jack tail coat high kicking akin to Basil Fawlty's nazi march. Well worth the admission fee and made up for missing the Reds.

[BEagle]

So - is it Order, Counter-order, Disorder down at the Secret Wiltshire Transport Base near WootyB??

Is it 'Delete all after "Good Morning"'?

Now that Thrombo is leaving, what will the future bring, one wonders? But how interesting to learn that some very big wheels indeed knew absolutely nothing about the demoralising havoc being wrought upon the luckless folk at another Secret Airbase somewhere in Central England!

[OscarCOG]

I hear a certain Group Captain is sharpening his sword!!!

[Whossat Forrus]

In anticipation that he may be about to fall upon it himself perhaps??????

[EESDL]

Or is it because he will find it easier to put into an unsuspecting back?

[Cy Nichol]

Well the cricket bats were out at Binnswrath on Friday, ground tours were sprung on at least 2 first year captains. Still posting captains in though, oh and still those really useful VR blokes taking up space on the board.

Best bit is that one of them just got £10k retention coz we're short of pilots!

We really do have a problem.

[SET 18]

Well, now that their airships have had time to dwell on the proposed changes at the secret Wiltshire airbase, they have seen fit to alter the original proposals. It was rumoured that the Staish would broadcast the al 1 this pm (Friday) but apparently this has been delayed 'til next week. We wait with baited breath....

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

I hear that there has been a development. Do tell chaps, I'm stuck downroute.