Flying coverall availability

[left one o clock]

Just been told by the squippers (and had confirmed by the boss) that there are no more flying coveralls available. Apparently, as they wear out they will be replaced by 're-furbished' ones. I kid you not!

[MrBernoulli]

I think this is due to ANOTHER change of suppliers. As usual the MOD always chooses the cheapest and ends up with tat for kit. The suppliers have not been up to the job so a new supplier is being sought/has been found but it will take time for the suits to start becoming available.

[Fox_4]

Great, refurbished kit. I wouldnt wish my old, smelly, refurbished grow-bag on anyone!. .. .Hope the MOD gets a new supplier quickily, if only to save us wearing ripped flying suits with lovely squipper repairs done to them and permanent under arm sweat stains!. .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />

[TqNrT4NgGreenlightCWP]

All true! A station somwhere in the midlands is about to offer second-hand kit to the first arrivals for a potentially prestigious overseas training contract. What's the old line about never getting a second channce to make a first impression..... .. .I despair!

[Admin Guru]

Gentlmen,. .I have just returned from another stimulating happy hour - the chat was racy and the lager free flowing. . .. .I must say that this is a victim of the bully that is budgets. I have a solution however. To save wear on the fabric and lengthen the life of the flying suit, I suggest that aircrew only wear their kit for flying. The rest of the time they could wear blues. This system works perfectly well at Brize Norton (in Oxfordshire.) In WWII pilots flew in their 1's all of the time. This could also go some way to resolving the them and us attitude.. .. .We do not see surgeons wearing masks in the street, builders wearing hats in the bar, or gardeners walking around with lawnmowers and gloves.

[yellow and black]

me thinks tis you who has the 'them and us' problem. . .. .Imagine getting a pair of blue trouser from stores to find the arse had already been shined for you!

[robspottydog]

AG, Keep up, BZN may have changed policy, I believe, just to keep pen pushing REMFs in their place (or keep fat folk in growbags?!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" />

[MSF]

You could always raid the grippers barrack block,. .after all there are probably more flying suits ,boots and jackets there than in stores

[BEagle]

The only vaguely blue-ish thing I ever wear at the Secret Oxfordshire Airbase is my SD Cap. Oh - and my Aircrew Leather Jacket which of course you blunt bug.gers aren't allowed to wear!!. .. .But if this rumour is true, then I shall certainly be dusting off the ancient slate grey Mk 11 flying suit and grey cold weather jacket which I've still got somewhere...... . . . <small>[ 09 March 2002, 10:33: Message edited by: BEagle ]</small>

[Max R8]

The scene; A UAS somwhere in England. Proud student called forward on training night to receive solo cert and Sqn badge from Boss. The boy done good and went solo in January after joining in November. "Well done" say Boss, "Now you can wear the Sqn badge with pride on your flying suit.". ."Er..I dont have a flying suit yet, Boss. I've been borrowing AEF kit to go flying..and when will I be getting some boots please?". .That's how we attract the best into today's RAF!

[Pub User]

I think AG's got a point here. Perhaps if we just wore No 1 uniform ALL the time, the suppliers wouldn't have such problems keeping the right stocks, and of course they are cheaper and more practical.. .. .Lager-drinking obviously rots the brain, as well as being extremely camp.. . . . <small>[ 09 March 2002, 11:01: Message edited by: Pub User ]</small>

[Dan Winterland]

Surely BEagle, you should have a complete set of Irvin leathers somewhere! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . .. .Never wore blues at Brize, except for that ridiculous flag ceremony. I didn't have a blue wooly pully for the last two years in the mob since I discovered the cat had been using it as a bed! SWO didn't like me wearing the blue leather jacket instead - think it was the nice red badge she didn't like.. .. .My attitude to blues was that I would start wearing them when they became free, like the flying kit.. .. .Current and ex Fighting Lions, WRT Admin Guru - Budgie code 107!

[Talking Radalt]

Well yah-boo sucks to you lot! Latest rumour is that at long bloomin' last the greener squadrons of the RAF are getting flying clothing designed especially for grubbing around in the back of flying four tonners....so now we'll all look like squaddies with knee pads. . .So long, International Dancing Suit of Ultimate Disciplinary Immunity. . .Thing is until the new stuff arrives in July (precise year undisclosed) we also have to make do with cast-offs and repairs.

[Big Green Arrow]

As awful as the following sounds (and I'm only just keeping my lunch down thinking it!)...I bet Admin Guru is the type who has one of the 'fake' sheep-skin bang-seat covers on his comfy office chair, a cardboard cockpit of a Hawk on the wall around the window and THE arse cut out of his shiny blue trousers...now what about those love eggs AG?..that's it I'm off to barf!. . . . <small>[ 09 March 2002, 17:34: Message edited by: Big Green Arrow ]</small>

[Jeep]

I have to disagree admin. I recently attended the EWO course at Cranwell and as an Army chap I wore working dress(combat 95), while the majority of my crab chums wore their grow bags. I was definitely at a disadvantage as they had many more pockets than I did. They were also at an advantage during the happy hour back in the mess as they were correctly dressed for drinking games whereas I had to be careful not to spill on my uniform. There is also the issue of badges. If only we were all allowed to wear our logbooks on other forms of dress, instead of just the fliegeanzug. Imagine how natty a winter pully would look with a sqn badge on the arm. Having recently seen a herc pilot start an aircraft, taxi past for a ground taxi check, all dressed in his civvies, perhaps we should be able buy our own suits, based on our own designs. Visiting choggie tailors would give herc drivers something to do on their stopovers. .. .On a more serious note, perhaps the imminent issue of nomex combat 95 could be used as a stopgap for the shortage of flying suits. Only wearing flying kit when on flying duties does make a lot of sense. Only a suggestion.. .. .I wonder what the name of the company is that has failed to deliver on time? Or who agreed to that company being awarded the contract? I bet they look lovely when they do turn up.. .. .As attractive as all the retention measures so far go, being turned away from the clothing store because of shortages does more damage to my perception of my employer and long-term plans than any amount of cash.

[kippermate]

I saw a signal from the head stacker that says there will not be any new fg kit for quite some time, and the delay is not going to get any shorter! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" />

[Mr C Hinecap]

Right - RIGHT - you've gone and done it now!!!!!. .A number of issues that REALLY gall the stacker in me here.. .1. Take the flying suits off those NOT flying - includes Trolley Dollys, Police, UKMAMS, in fact any plank who wants to 'look' like skygods. Although get something better for the Dollys than that grey thing they used to wear.. .2. Make all uniform free issue to zobs - this antiquated buying of uniform is a hangover from the Army buying into a regiment or something - stop the pitiful uniform allowance and just let us exchange the damn stuff like the airmen.. .3. It is the MOD Civil Servants who procure this stuff, not the stackers.. .. .There - its out now, feel better - blimey, NOT an AG thread and it got to me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

[lightningmate]

Equipment procurement generally rests with an IPT these days. The S&AD IPT looks after flying clothing, amongst other things. The civilian personnel with many years experience in the flying clothing field were moved from London to Abbey Wood when that establishment opened. Thereafter the Abbey Wood personnel and associated areas at Wyton were amalgamated to form the IPT.. .. .But it was a long way between the 2 locations:. .. .Pink Solution - locate the IPT at Wyton and move all the Abbey Wood people to Wyton.. .. .Solution Flaw - the Abbey Wood people did not relish the severe domestic upheaval involved in moving to Wyton, so they applied for other jobs at Abbey Wood and the IPT lost most of its hard won expertise.. .. .Current Situation - the IPT is established at Wyton. The inexperienced staff are reduced in numbers, are on a steep learning curve and individuals have more projects to run than their predecessors.. .. .Result - shortages of flying clothing.. .. .Just another example of the benefits of modern management and, allegedly, senior 'blue suit' people failing to understand that civilians do not have to jump when ordered to do so.. . . . <small>[ 10 March 2002, 10:24: Message edited by: lightningmate ]</small>

[Phil Terfull]

Seems like its time once again to look across the pond and go buy the American kit. Its good enough for Mr Whippey's sqn.. .As for only wearing the kit whilst flying, judging by some of the threads on this forum there are some parts of the RAF that could do with a reminder that we're in the business of operating aircraft.. .Rant over!

[jockspice]

But surely as SE, flying bags should only be worn on flying duties? We laffed ourselves silly one day at a meeting in Aldergrove, when everyone had arrived by civ air, all the light blue were in flying kit and the RN and Army were in blues and greens. Is it the need for crabs to wear badges that causes this or the lack of ironing ability? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" /> . .No wonder you are runnning out of the kit, its never off your back! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[jiffni]

Buy american kit? Once our system gets hold of that, it would probably struggle to issue a service deviation and that would be after years of extensive testing. Rather like the NVG lip light issue. The AAC withdrew all lip lights recently because of no service deviation. All of a sudden the apache pilots have been issued with them and an SD has been produced. Even spookier is the rumour that after 10 years of illegal use an SD for their use in Lynx might be issued. Probably nothing to do with the fact that the issuer is the next OC of the NI Lynx unit.

[jockspice]

jiffni. .Believe it or not, but it is supposed to be a JHC wide SD, meaning all the CHF flyers can get them too. About blimmin time.

[ashwelljames]

going back to fly suits and the lack of them. why not stop giving them to the bloody tristar crews especially the cabin crew. that would save us a few and make those queens wear aprons like they should.

[DP Harvey]

How many of us have ever handed a suit back because it had been worn out due to nornmal wear and tear? In 20 odd years of wearing them I have had to change them due to either damage or a developing body shape. Worn out? never.. .. .AG - not wearing a flying suit when not flying does not increase/maintain its life if it is used carefully when not flying. It will get damaged by the aircraft (locking wire and sharp edge tears, fuel and oil drips, sweat stains from the sim, etc) before it wears out due to sitting on a bar stool while taking the p~ss out of prats like you.. .. .Will you keep your ferkin nose out of this....

[DP Harvey]

Standing room - if a person flies full time, militarily- air steward included - that person should wear a flying suit. Its about wearing appropriate clothing in the working environment. Cabin fires, fuel spills, etc, are not selective in which aircraft they occur.. .. .Its up to the RAF to get their sh#t in a sock and get everybody properly dressed. Sure, we should not allow suits to be issued to non entitled persons. But that might save a only handful in the next few months.

[The Pilgrim]

Other than some arse saying it isnt allowed, Service Deviation/ Blah Blah. Why not just wear C95, it would be the first sensible thing anybody has done about flying clothing in years! and before some dull fart starts talking about crashes and burning and sewing on knife patches etc, please get a life.

[Talking Radalt]

So Super Stacker:. ."1. Take the flying suits off those NOT flying - includes Trolley Dollys, Police, UKMAMS, in fact any plank who wants to 'look' like skygods". .. ....and remove all aircrew wristwatches, ProBoots, Windproofs, aircrew polonecks, flying gloves et al from not-so-Super Stackers.. .Quote from forward delivery driver upon being questioned as to why he was wearing full windproofs inc the trousers to drive a Transit van.... ."It gets windy on the airfield"

[Mr C Hinecap]

Radalt and the rest - completely agree - nothing hacks me off more than that - I don't mind someone getting the right kit for the job, but stuff like watches & the rest - silly.. .As for previous 'right kit for job' posts - do the PAX fly in flying suits? Then why should the air stewards - don't remember the last mid air flash fire that claimed the life of an un-flying-suited civvy air steward. Flying suits are protective clothing specific for certain jobs & environments, not just easier to wear cos there's no buttons and good to swank in.. .. .Imagine just getting the right kit - not the best, not the cheapest, just the right kit....I have a dream......... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="redface.gif" />

[The Curator]

Having read two pages of this thread, I am amazed that no-one has come to this conclusion. Call me a "bluff old traditionalist" if you will, but, at a "rather large secret base" in Oxon, the aircrew actually fly AIRLINERS! Admittedly, one of the types is older than most who post at P.Prune. Here is an idea: - for A.T. tasks wear Blue Uniform!! Hey Presto!! More time for the squippers to service our flying suits!.........It has worked for the last 30 years, and is good enough for V.I.P. and Royal Duties. Or am I being too cynical?

[ashwelljames]

Well if AT want to wear flying suits , should they also do courses such as the A course or desert survival? . .If you were the enemy and managed to shoot down a tristar flying tactical at 30,000ft (as they quote in RAF News) would you want to or even try to catch the fools onboard. (thats if it even landed in one bit.)

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

OK you are a bluff old traditionalist,. . . .Nice thought and at the sleepy hollow you refer to probably eminantly sensible, however at the RAF's "main" AT base, a little south west of you, we would never be able to wear blue as Albert would tear it to shreds in no time at all. And the prospect of our female aircrew clambering over 70 or 80 items of "walking freight", in a nice blue skirt, in search of a curtained off loo....well I ask you.... .. .Super Stacker, two words that really don't belong together, you have answered your own question young man. The "air" steward, like the Alm and the Eng and the Nav and the Pilots is part of the "air" crew and is therefore, and quite rightly so, entitled to wear the appropriate "air" crew clothing whilst on duty in the "air"craft. If local policy further dictates that "air"crew can consider their flying clothing as normal working dress is it any wonder they wear it continuously as it is with out doubt far more comfortable than any version of the blue uniform I wore for 15 years prior to remustering to ALM. . .. .As for the criticism of our "Navel" asset, if you want/have to spend your spare time looking like every other "seaman stains" then please carry on, but as long as polilcy allows us professional aviators to look the part at every oppertunity why should we not do so? . .. .Happy Herc Mate. .. .any spelling mistakes are alcohol induced. . . . <small>[ 12 March 2002, 11:43: Message edited by: Always_broken_in_wilts ]</small>

[jockspice]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica"> As for the criticism of our "Navel" asset, if you want/have to spend your spare time looking like every other "seaman stains" then please carry on, but as long as polilcy allows us professional aviators to look the part at every oppertunity why should we not do so? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica">Firstly, its "Naval", secondly Daily Working Rig is your uniform, not your SE, and finally that is the reason you have ran out of flying overalls. As for professional, I can safely say you are the most professional overall wearers I have seen. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" />

[PTT]

Daily Working Rig, eh?. .. .Let me think, what "rig" do I wear daily when working?. .. .Oh yeah, that's right, a flying suit. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" /> . .. .PTT

[mousehands]

I think it is necessary to wear appropriate clothing to the job, and if loadmasters want to dress up as pilots then let them pretend.

[C130KBloke]

Blessed Beard;. .. .I put it to you...young/old man, that if Herc pilots want to dress as LoadMasters, then they can certainly do so. I seem to recall that it is harder to clamber over pallets, bags, pax etc than to sit and play with my AutoPilot in a furry seat.. .. .I hasten to add, that I am not good/skilfull enough to join the 2 wing master race. I look up to them except when the Co is trying to hold on to the bar floor in case he falls off.. .. .regards....SFS

[C130KBloke]

Also...while I'm at it.... .. .It is Station/Squadron policy for all operating crew to look similar...image and all that.. .. .And from a Flt Safety point of view...after the accident. It makes it easier for the Rescue services to ident the crew from the freight!!!. .. .Regards...SFS

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Black Beard.........(tongue firmly in cheek) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> . .. .Oh that I were clever enough, or good looking enough for that matter to be a two winged sky god. But I'm not and I settle for the lot I have and feel priveledged to be able to wear the same clothes as my lords and masters as my daily rig.. .. .As for "JS" if, when not flying, he has to dress the same as the rest of the semen then it must be down to one of those fairly antiquated navel regs, like rubber rings and the grass. Ho hum . .. .Happy Herc Mate. .. .all spelling mistakes are alcohol induced. . . . <small>[ 12 March 2002, 22:38: Message edited by: Always_broken_in_wilts ]</small>

[mousehands]

Obviously my last post was tongue in cheek, but I believe that all aircrew (including loadies) should wear the suitable clothing for the job, and if that happens to be a flying suit then so be it. It is a sad indication of our armed forces if its personnel are forced to argue amoungst themselves as to who gets to wear a flying suit. Having stocks of suitable clothing seems like a basic, essential prerequisite of any organisation. Next you'll be telling me that the armys' radios and rifles don't work. . .. .The coverall shortage isn't due to VC10 crews (or loadies)wearing it, but because of a government and hierachy that seems, at best, unable to foresee the obvious.. .. .There also seems to be a problem within the RAF from ground trades resenting aircrew for wearing their flying suits-which seems quite sad. Of couse aircrew wear flying suits: they fly! (RAF police wear white caps, why can't navigators?) Nobody in the RAF was forced to join or do their current trade, so a swift removal of all chips from shoulders is long overdue. . .. .Not having enough of the basic kit is frankly embarrasing as it highlights just how poor things have become.. .. .Rant over!

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

BB,. .. .Could'nt have put it better myself, but as we don't do ISS etc, no surprises there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .Happy Herc Mate. .. .all spelling mistakes are alcohol induced. . . . <small>[ 13 March 2002, 13:16: Message edited by: Always_broken_in_wilts ]</small>

[teeteringhead]

I hate to be pedantic, but grobags for crabs is/are uniform. Should you consult AP 1358 - RAF Dress Regulations, you will find at Chapter 6 that flying suits are No 14 Home Dress. Even the awful, posy biker jacket is there as No 14C. Nuff said?. .. .Shouldn't AG know that,rather than have to be told by a gentleman aviator such as ...... moi!

[Admin Guru]

I know that they are uniform, but my response was in reaction to the fact there is a shortage of flying suits. I wasn't aware that they never wore out, as claimed. Indeed, if this is the case, why is there a shortage?

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

AG young man at least have the good grace to read all the replies. The reason there is a shortage is because :. .. .a. There are more wannabe's wearing aircrew clothing than there are aircrew wearing aircrew clothing. .. .b. The important man who counts the beans did'nt set enough aside for most of the the important things in life.. .. .c. A similarly important man, who no doubt used to count beans, but now signs contracts to procure's things could'nt be trusted to buy a bag of apples.. .. .Nuff said!. .. .Happy Herc Mate. .. .all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Skylark 4 BLW]

Maybe now would be a good time to offer up for sale a couple of the old Mk14 flying suits I used to wear when gliding until I discovered the USAF and Dutch flying suits...??? The Dutch suits are basically very similar to the USAF ones but tend to come in sizes other than 38L for the more amply proportioned amongst us!. .. .On a more 'anorakish' note, wasn't the RAF in the process of changing from the traditional plunging neckline Mk14A suit to a high neck darker green suit more in keeping with the USAf type...???. .. .Putting my serious hat on for a minute, as a civvie aviator I despair that guys like you at the sharp end aren't getting the kit you rightly deserve. Whay can I see parallels with the 1939 Defence Policy...???

[Harry Peacock]

A couple of points .... . I'm now having to wear USAF type ovies and I miss the old Pom version as it had decent pockets to keep your hands warm, could hold two beers at landaways and upset the Senior P as you slouched around!!. . Also years ago I heard (In the bar!!!) that the company selected for the then new supply of ovies managed a swift one in that their 'regular range was in all coulours of the rainbow for the display posers and civie companies, BUT if the MOD wanted olive green that would be an extra xx% thank you very much!!!. . Don't know if it's true but knowing the MOD there's a high probability!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" />

[cobaltfrog]

SOD IT! LETS ALL ADOPT THE FOLLOWING RIG/DRESS!. .. .SUMMER: SHORTS AND T SHIRT AND FLIP FLOPS (DRESSES OPTIONAL FOR ROYAL!). .. .WINTER: JEANS, TIMBERLANDS AND FLEECE!. .. .OH.........657 ALREADY DO THAT ALONG WITH 7 DONT THEY!

[6nandneutral]

Skylark said "Why can I see parallels with the 1939 Defence Policy...???", and I add, "look what happened in 1939"

[Skylark4]

I am the Original Skylark 4 (BNK). Beware of imitations.. .Even I am not old enough to remember the 1939 Defence Review, but I know what you mean and see the analogy. Didn`t I see in the Telegraph a few days ago that Blair was going to allocate 25,000 Sojers to some Euro-Army. By my reckoning, that`s about one quarter of all we`ve got. Who is going to do all the other things that soldiers do, like keep the Irish from murdering each other, UN Duties etc.. Same goes for kit. You can only send half the fleet if you have more than one ship.. .. .Mike W

[6nandneutral]

When we (that is HM Forces in general)get involved in an operation it hits the press for maybe a week or two and then it gets forgotten about. Then something else blows up (excuse the pun), and off we go again. What I think a lot of people tend to forget about, or not be aware of is that we don't just all pull out and go home. We leave people behind who need supplying and re-supplying and changing over and 11 divided by 10 does not go.

[Skylark 4 BLW]

Mike,. .. .Nice to see us Skylark pilots have such impeccable taste in flying clothing and also appear to share the wisdom that only comes from flying 30+ years old aircraft...!!. .. .'Not the tall one'

[snafu]

If you're not actually intending to fly on a particular day that you decide to turn up to work, why do Crabs aircrew always have to wear ovies?? Are you lot really that insecure that you're worried someone might not realise you're aircrew unless you're wearing a gro-bag? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" /> . .. .Hell, if that's the problem, why not carry your helmet/headset all the time and put a lifejacket on just to make sure they can't miss it!! (After all, your predecessors in WW2 did it!). .. .Funniest and saddest thing to watch is the Crab that drives to another base for happy hour. He'll quite happily change into civvies to drive but then has to get back into ovies at the new base!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" /> . .. .Helmet on, "INCOMING!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[BEagle]

snafu - Presumably what you refer to as 'Ovies' is what is now known as No 14 Dress in the RAF?. .. .Best you don't go to certain RAF aerodromes in your sailor suit - you might be confused for a customs and immigration wallah!. .. .Personally I think that the only decent RAF working dress was the Lightning/Vulcan era barathea battledress - the one with flush epaulettes and zipped pockets. Wedgewood blue shirt, tie and No 2 slacks looks fine with the Aircrew Leather Jacket, of course, but it isn't allowed.....although it's much smarter than No 14 Dress!

[Mmmmnice]

Admit it SNAFU; you find us all absolutely irresistable. If you carry on like this I shall stop visiting that grey abomination you all bob around in - don't anyone say the O word!!! pip pip

[Helmut Visorcover]

It's true what some are saying though. If your not actually on a flying duty that day, then wear other kit. Even if it is your no 14 b o l locks or what ever. If I'm not flying, I wear CS95. Do you have to prove you are pilots all the time by wearing a grow bag? Or is it insecurity?

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

I wonder why our Navel chums are so concerned with what other men are wearing this year, I hope it's not the usual Blue Oyster Club thing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" /> . .. .Or maybe it's that they feel a bit threatened now that the RAF are about to re equip their flat top boats with proper Harriers to replace the ageing birds they currently own. Add to that there seems to be a need for proper heli's at sea hence the increased use of the "Chinny" and soon us "crabs", in our bags!, will outnumber them onboard. With that in mind it's only a matter of time, as a cost saving measure of course, before one of our "fj" mates does a 2 week "cross over" to become ships captain.....imagine that.. .. ." ankers away". .. .Happy Herc Mate. .. .all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced. . . . <small>[ 17 March 2002, 05:17: Message edited by: Always_broken_in_wilts ]</small>

[2 TWU]

I suggest the best answer to this shortage of flying kit is for all to do what one of the Lightning Sqns (Tremblers I think) did on it's first deployment to Cyprus.. .. .On arrival, all the pilots doffed their goon bags on the pan to reveal some very crumpled but complete DJs underneath--this was shortly after a certain James Bond film was on the streets. Now, this would solve all problems; I'm off to stores to try to get issued with a DJ, hopefully a new one in the wrapper and not a refurbished one from a chopped (sorry, restreamed) student.

[BEagle]

What's 'CS95'? Sounds like some advert for aftershave worn by the mud-dwellers: "After flying in my helo, I always wear CS95. It makes me fink I'm a real ruffy-tuffy". .. .The current guidance regarding the wearing of No14 is fine - but I do agree that it takes a really small-willied person to wear a flying suit on some of the occasions suggested here!. .. .Perhaps we should junk all variants of the RAF's No 2 uniform and make everyone wear either CS95 in either its current 'grunt with gun' version or in a version suitable for flying any military ac. I don't see the need for all the 'fifty hours over North Yorkshire' badges - just a tone-down name-and-brevet badge on the left tit and a tone-down national flag on the left shoulder would do.

[Mr C Hinecap]

SNAFU - you hit the nail on the head - everyone must know who is aircrew - it is the law. Whe else would you see 'em sweating like the proverbial on the occasional sunny day if they have to wear blues? It is because you wear a brevet on your jumper and not on a shirt - 'they' would just look like one of 'us' otherwise. Don't argue, we know it's true! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[15/15 flex]

Abso-bloody-lutely Stacker!! My solution is for RAF PILOT on the rank slides. Let's face it, just about every other branch/trade does it...RAF REGT, RAF POLICE, UKMAMS, TCW, TAC ADMIN (for f*cks sake!) - what DO they do by the way?. .. .Hurrah for us!. .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[Max R8]

I find it amazing that so many on this thread feel that the wearing of flying clothing by...er...flyers is indicative of insecurity. I would have thought the constant bleating by the non-aviators on this issue displays almost Freudian envy of our humble No 14 working dress. I wonder if the USN/USAF have to endure this pathetic debate? Probably not as all flyers up to General rank wear the kit all the time as a matter of professional pride in their primary job of their service.. .. .The original issue on this thread has been lost, in that when are we going to sort out this scandalous shortage of flying kit? The attitude of those who stack the stuff is not very promising of an early solution to the problem.

[Sloppy Link]

BEagle,. .Badges, who needs stinking badges? My view is that I know what I do and if anyone else needs to know, I will tell them, otherwise, their ignorance is bliss. Badges and baubles are OK for formal occasions if that is what flicks your wire but for normal use, NO!

[Mr C Hinecap]

Max - I may be a minority amongst stackers (tho I think not), but I'd really love to say 'yes' to every request for kit, especially to those who need it to do their job. What gets my goat is when those who do not need such specialist protective equipment, and let us not forget that, purloin it for their own use. When highly paid help decide all stewards at certain secret Oxfordshire bases should wear flying suits that they were NEVER scaled for, a huge number of flying suits vanished from the system. You do the sums. Since those early days of this thread it has degenerated into childish banter - one of the reasons I read PPRUNE. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />

[Baz Heath]

What utter nonesence SNAFU & SuperStacker,. .I agree that many of us wear flying suits on days we don't fly, but so what? What is your problem?. .Would you wear one if you were aircrew?. .Have you ever been into a sqn groundcrew crewroom? You won't see aircraft groundcrew all sitting around in neatly pressed blue shirts etc. they will be in their working dress - denims. But does anyone complain about that? of course not, because those of us with half a brain cell understand and appreciate that it's just not important! . .Do you complain about dentists wearing coveralls as well?. .The thing that grips our $hit is that when we go to stores to get a new suit, we are often told 'sorry Sir, we aint got any!' particularly when your mates in movements, supply officers, ukmams and every man and his dog in the supply world has a nice new flying suit hanging up in their offices. . .Why is it, when you have such a low opinion of aircrew, you so much want to dress like us? could it be just a hint of jealousy I wonder?. .Of course if you think you're up to joining us, then feel free! aircrew are crying out for recruits in all branches, and we'de love to meet you.. .In the meantime, keep stacking them blankets, counting them beans and find something worthwhile to bleat about.. .. .Power to the flight deck. .MM. . . . <small>[ 18 March 2002, 13:29: Message edited by: MagicMan ]</small>

[jockspice]

Magic Man. .I suggest you fully read the profiles of the people you are having a go at. That way, you will not make yourself look such a massive chimp when you reply.. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> . .Working dress is 3A in the RN (denims) and overalls are worn when working on the aircraft. I suspect we may have had a bit more interaction with our groundcrew than you, being locked in with them in a ship for 3 months at a time. You also wont see a dentist in their gown every hour of the day, whether they are having a surgery or not.. .To go back to the original reason for this thread, I agree that if all the hangers on stopped drawing the kit, it may be available for those who are actually in the job. On the other hand, knicks and flip flops in hotter climates works just as well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[DP Harvey]

We have NOT run out of the kit because of unauthorised use by non-aircrew or inappropriate use by aircrew. These activities have been happening for many years and have not been an issue in previously due to the copious amounts of gear that was available (too much sometimes).. .. .Our current shortage is simply because we do not now have a contracted supplier. It is inevitable that we would run out.. .. .Why are we accusing each other, when we need only look upwards with disdain?

[Biggus]

In an attempt to drag this thread back to it's original topic, namely the lack of flying coveralls, I would ask the question "is anyone out there suffering from other flying clothing shortages?". It is impossible to get any longjohns in my current location, and they are just commercially available Jockeys for goodness sake, which you can get on most high streets! Not so long ago it was flying socks that were like rocking horse pooh!. .. .I have a theory that it is all part of a conspiracy by the Treasury to save money by slowly getting us to buy all our own kit. People are already buying their own sleeping bags, waterproofs, boots, torches .... etc. . .. .Remember, just because you are paranoid it doesn't mean they are not out to get you.

[stablepowerset]

Superstacker did get one thing right!!!! it wasnt the sqn or the stewards who decided that everybody on the VC10 and Tristar fleet!!! ooops sorry forgot "ageing" fleet should wear gro-bags, it was way up the line!!! hence the sudden demand to kit out the "crew" . .Blues worked well enough and personally i prefered them!! apart from having to iron a shirt everyday. .As for wearing my flying suit all the time! I dont come to work unless i am going flying or going in the sim!!! and more to the point if I do come in to work for niff naff and trivia (not often) if i aint got my flying kit available then i cant be called on to go flying at short notice!! And if the response to that is keep it in a locker, fine get me a locker over in flying clothing coz there aint room on the sqn, and man it 24/7, contrary to popular belief Brize is a 24/7 unit.. .It still confuses me tho why the Movers and Police have to wear flying kit down the back of the 10 or the tri-motor.. .bring back blues on the A/T fleet is what i say!!!! and only were flying suit for ops!!!!

[XV666]

Dunno if such a move is available these days, but when we moved from the old two piece goon suits into the snazzy new one piece, as junior sub on 826 I was last in line. When no suits were available, the Boss signalled Admiralty that we were no longer fully operational as a front line squadron, citing lack of kit.. .. .New goon suit found within 24 hours.. .. .Or is this too simplistic in this modern age of electronic communications, or don't the current range of Bosses have the wherewithall to make such prognostications?

[Chinook]

Gentlemen,. .. .The issue of what to wear ... such an emotive issue the world over.. .. .I found the UK stores system exasperating to say the least, they do seem to be in 'stores denial' mode, however .... .. .If there is a lack of those stylish open necked green bags (and Lord knows I kept a couple to keep as souvenirs) spare a thought for the gopping 'hearts and bunnies' flying clothing we in HM Australian Army Aviation are supplied with ... . .. .It don't matter what you're wearing, it's what you act like wearing it.. .. .Perhaps the chick need to be made aware that your blues / indoor working dress still conceals that 10" dong she perceives hiding in a zoom bag?!!. .. .A famous General once said:. .. ."The better we dress the soldier, the more he will be admired by the ladies, and consequently, himself". .. .I imagine Freud read the RMA Leadership Manual .... .. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[left one o clock]

Since starting this thread, I have now heard strong rumours of bright orange flying suits being introduced to the system. I know certain of our European colleagues have AEA of this type. If true, how would it be met by the RAF, and would UKMAMS et al still want to wear it?

[BEagle]

I was going to start suggesting bright orange flying suits a while ago when the nanny society started making people wear those b£oody stupid yellow road-digger's bibs! Plus it'd make the transition to EasyJet easier for many!. .. .Still waiting for my Boots (Lightweight) Size 8 medium - and have been since 8 Nov 01....... .. .Perhaps the future's bright, the future's really going to be orange?. . . . <small>[ 19 March 2002, 08:25: Message edited by: BEagle ]</small>

[Sailor boy]

I've just got a new pair

[Skylark 4 BLW]

Beagle,. .. .Hmmm future brightness eh..??. .. .Does that mean those of us who work for Orange will now be able to wear flying suits to work each day? If so, I'd better dig out those old Mk14A grow bags I have in the wardrobe. It puts 'dress down' Fridays in a whole new light...??. .. .On a serious note, I hope your kit shortages are sorted quickly, as a tax payer I'd like to think the guys get the kit they need, when they need it.

[Cooperman]

I can get my hands on a supply of slightly soiled Canadian flying suits if anyone's interested.......... .. .I'll get my coat <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

[It's Not Over Until......]

Cooperman,. .. .So you have time to look at PPRuNe! . .. .A friend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 20 March 2002, 17:45: Message edited by: It's Not Over Until...... ]</small>

[barry007]

I had to get a new grow bag recently due to POL contamination. .due to the shortage of kit I had to make do with a second hand. .suite. The good thing is it was previously a females, it had a. .rather strange but quaint smell to it!!. .(when we are not moaning about money)

[PICKS135]

Short of Gro-bags. Get in touch with the guy off Channel 4's 'Salvage Squad'. He seems to have plenty of them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 20 March 2002, 20:55: Message edited by: PICKS135 ]</small>

[PICKS135]

once snagged a canberra drivers suit due to knacked neck seal. They were staying overnight so I got a neck seal and fixed it myself in the flying clothing section. Next night he went off back home quite a happy man. Why didnt the squippers do the repair themselves, SH ?

[The English Passenger]

Only been waiting a few months for kit.....Get in the Queue!. .. .I have been here in Cyprus on 84 Sqn since Jan 01, squippers put in order for 2 lightweight flying suits (quite essential when it's 40 degs and you are sat in awessex for 4-5 hours doing firefighting in the summer...gets a bit warm like). . .. .In Sep two fling suits turned up marked as 15T (tropical), but looked and felt strangely familiar to normal ones. Squippers phoned the suppliers and were told "there are no 15T flying suits anymore due to the lack of a manufacture, so we just label the ordinary ones as 15T, what's the problem?". .. .Oh what a wonderful military world we live in, I think I was supposed to keep on stewing. Problem was only solved by my being grounded for back problems, hence no need for suits anymore for me anyway!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> . .. ."I see you are using Bonetti's defence"... "It seemed suitable with the rocky terrain"

[Mad_Mark]

Lovely orange flying suits, now there's a top idea <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . .. .I could wear it over my lovely bright immersion/survival suit in case I ended up in the water. In case of conflict (oh yes, we are a fighting force!) I would have nice green flying suits too - you know, tactical stuff in case I end up in the nasty mans back yard. (You never know, I might even get issued with those lovely sandy coloured ones, since that is the colour of the ground I seem to see most often these days.) So, I could have a bigger colour choice and the best bit is, since it is free it costs me nothing. Oh, hang on! I pay taxes, so I will be paying for all those extra flying suits in the many available colours planned. Jolly good idea! I am convinced that their Airships that come up with these great ideas have shares in the companies that supply us.. .. .Mad Mark!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" />

[Cooperman]

It's Not Over Until......howdy. Did you note the time of my post? I was at work, obviously!. .. .Jokin' aside...wanna buy some cheap blue gear? CF are all wearin' US stuff now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />

[stokie]

I got my flying suit back after servicing to find the pocket had not been stiched back up. I handed it back in for repair to be told some days later that it was now scrapped. I suggest that the shortage might be due to certain individuals who can't be ar$ed to repair stuff as it is obviously easier to scrap it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" /> .. .. .I too would like a variety of coloured flying suits depending on the environment I am operating in at the time.. .. .I wear flying suit most of the time on the sqn, as I have been called on to fly for someone at very short notice more than once.

[bad livin']

Lads n lassies, was having a look at a link on another thread for mart aviation (www.mart-aviation.co.uk)...check out the number of "new and unissued" growbags they seem to have (for most airforces it seems, not just ours). Think on...just direct your friendly unit squippers to their website!

[raytofclimb]

Hi bad livin. You earning a decent living yet?. .. .Back to the thread.... a certain 2002 display pilot has been recently fitted for his suit by a particular manufacturer who admitted to having loads of the new and apparently 'USAF -ish' type suits almost ready for dispatch. But guess what?..... they haven't been payed yet. Maybe theres no cash until 1 April.. .. .Also its not just coveralls, its anything. eg. socks, jockeys, thermals, boots, goon bags and parts, and my new Mk10 dome that we dont have. This cant be all due to non aircrew wearing it. Non aircrew wouldn't wear those awfull Y-front long johns if they knew they lurked under most bunny suits.. .. .Anyone still wondering why we have a need for ARR FRIs?

[bad livin']

ROC, roger. War canoe driver UT, HM RN.... .. .TTFN!. .D