To be an Engineer or not be an Engineer-What should I do?

[aviatordom]

Hi PPRuNer's,

That time in my life has finally come for me. The time when I can finally start to make decisions about what I would like to do after I leave school, there is the option of:

Sixth Form
College
or an Apprenticeship Scheme

Like many people my age I really don't know what I want to do 100%

Now, my manual dexterity isn't brilliant, I haven't got the co-ordination of an Air Force pilot and my Maths is pretty shoddy! (i'm achieving steady C's, but i'm not really that brilliant)

So far, it doesn't sound as if i'm really the right person to be fixing a big Airbus or Boeing or designing a Bridge, etc..

Right, down to the nitty gritty. Deciding that I want to go into the world of aircraft engineering, my assumption is that a B2 Avionic engineer doesn't neccessarily have to be as skilled when it comes to using tools, would I be right in saying this? Or is that complete rubbish?

Are both B1 & B2 on par in terms of dexterity level?

Finally, should I go to College or Sixth Form and take A-levels, keeping my options open and having back-up plans? or would it be best to apply for an apprenticeship?

[smudgethecat]

You sound ideal avionics material to me :}

[Alber Ratman]

If you cannot handle a spanner. screwdriver and a soldering iron, you will be cr*p at both!! Only Joking!! B1 and B2 do have a cross over point (more towards B2), however with the age old British conservatism you will find that the trade demarcation is still a solid line (depending if all the B1's are on grandfather rights and have the limitations!)

If you have any aptitude to mechanical and electrical engineering , you will love aircraft maintenance, however if you can do "A" Levels and Uni, I would go that route first and enjoy life!!

[simonchowder]

As said dont be put off, if things get realy tricky you can always call for a A & C bloke

[EGT Redline]

My Maths is pretty shoddy too but its never held me back and I'm a B2 by trade. Theres very little 'calculating' in our day to day work but whenever it is called for you can use a calculator

The only time you'll see a B2 guy using his calculator is when calculating how many hours sleep he's going to get on a night shift or how many replacement screws he'll need for an access panel after rounding them all off trying to remove it :)

[Grambo]

Do you engineers use the tools every minute of the day?

[Alber Ratman]

The only tools an inspector (B1 or B2) needs is his maglite, mirror, black biro and his stamp! LOL

No, seriously line maintenance and base maintenance certifying staff use their tools as required to do their tasks.. However as their mechanic, you will use your tools required to do the tasks delegated for you to do, unless they are the larger or type specific tools that the company SHOULD hold to fulfil the requirements of their PART 145 approval!!:uhoh:

"Yes" is the answer to your question. Line stations and MROs will have a minimum tooling list for engineers in most cases. Some of the european operators have their own supplied tool kits that are issued, but this ain't the case in the UK. Your tools will be your livehood, so its wise to get the best you can, especially the high use items!

[vs69]

EGT Redline: Those calculations are only carried out AFTER 'rounding off' doughnuts are bought and the formula for those is easily done by doubling the number of people on shift when said screws were rounded off......

[Grambo]

AR..."No, seriously line maintenance and base maintenance certifying staff use their tools as required to do their tasks.. However as their mechanic, you will use your tools required to do the tasks delegated for you to do, unless they are the larger or type specific tools that the company SHOULD hold to fulfil the requirements of their PART 145 approval!!"

Im confused AR, as 'their mechanic', what do you exactly mean?

Is their mechanic a B1/B2 licenced engineer, or someone less qualified?

I thought that the team was made of all B1/B2 licenced engineers, with no level of hierarchy..

[Alber Ratman]

A licenced engineer gains his licence by obtaining the required licence module examinations for his chosen path, backed up (more importantly) by recording practical tasks (authenticated by the licenced engineer certifying them) that his national regulatory authority require and a minimum timespan of experience within a PART 145 maintenance enviroment (also authenticated). The CAA is one of the tightest on the requirements in EASA on practical experience. This is not including the type rating requirements and the company approval that is required to be authorised to sign off CRS's on commerical air transport aircraft.


A B1 or B2 doesn't walk straight into the industry. He will go through lower levels first of all. In your case, you will have to either:

Do five years as a maintenance worker/mechanic at a line station/base maintenance facility if you do the modules as a self improver route.

Do two years minimum if you have done a recognised PART 147 course of instruction (usually the foundation degree course like Kingston Uni, LRTT, AST Perth etc) that includes practical training and the module exams

or another industry field that is acceptable to the CAA

Do one year minimum if you have serve a required time on military aircraft maintenance (although you will have to supply authenticated documentation of this)


In a line station, the B1 or B2 Tech will be responsible for overhaul certifying release of maintenance on an aircraft (to his particular boundary), however he will have "A" licenced certifying mechanics (who can self sign off tasks that are limited in scope and he is authorised to do so) and mechanics / maintenance workers who do required tasks at the request of the Tech.

In a base MRO, the B1 and B2 are support certifying staff, who will run various zones of the aircraft (with supporting mechanics / maintenance workers / cleaners etc) and sign off the relevent workpack tasks as they are completed. However the main CRS for the maintenance pack and the tech log entry CRS for the maintenance check will be signed off by a "C" licenced engineer (who runs the show for that check). The "C" Engineer is a suitably trained and experienced "B" engineer, who has fulfiled the requirements of the CAA and his company..:ok:

There is a heirarchy, same as any workplace.

[h3dxb]

As said dont be put off, if things get realy tricky you can always call for a A & C bloke


BECAUSE, A REALLY BAD A&C CAN BE STILL A GOOD AVIONIC ENGINEER :ok::D

[Alber Ratman]

Why confuse the guy wth BCAR section L A + C??:confused:

Pre B1 licence with no electrics BTW.:E

[Grambo]

Thanks AR once again, this is amazing info...

So say I am B1/B2 licenced. Is my job title a 'line engineer'?

And is a type engineer different (and higher paid) than a line engineer?

[Alber Ratman]

Line Certifying Techinians refers to the engineers that check and sign off aircraft maintenance for your Ryan Air 737 at that gate of Glasgow airport etc. The controlling document for maintenance is the aircrafts tech log. they will run a team to do the daily pre flight check, the sector turnround checks, any Minimum Equipment List / Despatch Defect List entries limiting unservicable equipment that the aircraft can still operate without or replacing them between flights (why your aircraft is delayed on your holiday), replenishments, post operation rectification and any scheduled maintenance required on that line stations fleet of aircraft and any other aircraft that the station has responsibly for. The work will be shift, with possible overtime and trips away to recover AOG from other locations. The pay corresponds this high tempo / high responsibly position. The more type ratings the guy has for the various aircraft found in a fleet will increase his pay. All certifying techs have a type rating, because they wouldn't be certifying without one legally.

Base Certifying staff work at Maintenance Repair and Overhaul facilities (MRO), certifying work on aircraft that are under heavier scheduled maintenance or modification programmes. The tempo of work is less, thus pay reflects this too. Shift work pays more and overtime is not uncommon too.

[Grambo]

Thanks AR,

I take it both are licenced though?

And also, the MRO guys, can they still make £50k+...

[Alber Ratman]

Yes..

MRO techs can make 50K.. but only as Connies!!;)

A basic MRO Tech, not classed as a supervisor will earn considerably less than 50K. In fact in the worst paying places almost half!.. That level of pay is what a "C" Cert will get.

Your pay will depend on what you have got in the way of types and what type of shift you work in both sides.

However, in your stage of life, this sort of info is irrelevent (as it is for me as I'm still a mechanic BTW!)

Mechs pay is around £11 PH for permies and for Connies is 13 to 18 in the UK (depending on company rates and what they want!). Maintenance workers is less and appos get peanuts..

[Grambo]

So the line guys, do they just do the checks or actually fix the aircraft? Or both?

[Alber Ratman]

When up to 10 people of all grades have up to 60 + movements a shift to deal with.. What do you think?? Only a tech will go and do an AOG trip unless the task will require more than one person to do it. An LRU change etc, doesn't need two people to do it (unless its a duplicate inspection task!)

Some MROs will see Techs just inspecting, but its more common to see them do some production during the day in others..:E