manual loadsheet help

[OTA]

Hi
I need help with Manual Loadsheet.
Does anybody can help me with that?
What does means each item of the manual loadsheet?
It there any formula do understand how to make easily one manual loadsheet?
If you have some, what I can train I will appreciate, send it to my mail
Many thanks
Best rgds
Rui

[Founder]

There is a great book from Airbus called getting to grips with weight and balance, at the 2 last chapters of that book they explain every detail you could imagine about the manual loadsheet... I suggest you read that one!

You'll find it here: http://www.smartcockpit.com/data/pdfs/flightops/aerodynamics/Getting_To_Grips_With_Weight_and_Balance.pdf

[OTA]

Thanks a lot for the link.
I was just having a look, and I need the explanation of all the items what is in the manual loadsheet, like what means Operating Weight.
And all the others items
Thanks
Rui

[Grasscarp]

Operating empty weight (OEW) is the basic weight of an aircraft including the crew, all fluids necessary for operation such as engine oil, engine coolant, and all the gear required for flight but not including fuel and the payload.

[OTA]

Hi and thanks a lot for your answer , but how it can be without fuel, if in the loadsheet it becomes after the fuel ??
Is dow + fuel = Operating Weight

If anybody knows a good formula to make it easily , explanation of manual loadsheet

Thanks

[polarbearjim]

Hello. The mix up here is between the 'Dry Operating Weight' (no fuel) and 'Wet Operating Weight' (with fuel). WOW = DOW + take off fuel

The confusion has arisen here because sometimes 'Wet Operating Weight' is just called 'Operating weight'.


Any more questions and I'll try and help.

[CR2]

Rui, which aircraft are you working with? Weight & Balance is my speciality (B747F). I don't quite understand your question.

OEW Operational Empty Weight (includes crew, catering, unusable fuel) + cargo (or pax) = Zero Fuel Weight + Fuel = Ramp Weight (or taxi weight) - taxi fuel = Take Off Weight. TOW - BurnOff = Estimated Landing Weight.

If you have some specific questions, I'm happy to help.

[OTA]

Hello
Thanks a lot for your help
If it is possible and I would like to have is, the explanation of each item of the manual loadsheet. Is any where I can go and get it?
What means DOI ? How we can calculate that??
Have you got any manual loadsheet of aircraft 737, A320? I would like to train making it?
Or there is any where I can go and get it???
Hope you can help
Many thanks
Rui

[pilotms]

The best will be that you get an AHM (Aircraft Handling Manual) or a GHM (Ground Handling Manual). In these Manuals all the Items are explained.
Also, you will find examples for manuall Loadsheets there.

[OTA]

Hello thanks a lot for your replay
already found the GHM, where i can find those explanation?
Thanks a lot
Best rgds
Rui

[john_tullamarine]

A search in the archives will find a number of threads which discuss trimsheet design. One example is this one (http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/177477-load-sheet-construction.html) in which we discuss the basics of trimsheet workup design. May provide another slant in addition to the Airbus document .. however the basics are pretty standard so the two will cover much the same stuff.

Best option is to scan and post a copy of the particular trimsheet in question and we can pull it apart to show how it has been designed and drawn up (otherwise called "reverse engineering").

[polarbearjim]

DOI stands for Dry Operating Index. It gives an indication of the position of the centre of gravity at dry operating mass. It's really a moment (mass multiplied by the distance from a defined datum) which is usually reduced to a smaller workable number by multiplication with a constant. This makes calculations easier as indexs are just added to each other.

Normally the operator will be able to supply the figures for the dry operating mass and index. For air transport they are required to weigh their Aircraft ever four years and record these figures in a weight schedule.

Here's a loadsheet for a CRJ I found with google. If you want I could guide you through it.

[Rainboe]

I think the poster really needs a basic and structured course on aircraft dispatching, not picking up snippets on an anonymous forum! He will end up with holes in his knowledge that if he tries to apply this stuff in a professional context will cause danger!

[OTA]

Hello
I am trying to understand the minimum of
Just to make the selection, and sure after words I will be able to take that course.
Thanks a lot for the help, and if any body could say any thing I will appreciate
Thanks
Rui

[CR2]

Yes Rainboe, I agree with you. We can explain the basics, that's about it.

Rui: as part of your understanding, google or look in the AHM for Mean Aerodynamic Chord, you will see it represented as % MAC. An index is used to determine what the MAC is (index is an easier calculation that MAC). MAC shows the center of gravity on the wing, where 0% is the front, 100% the rear of the wing. There will be a safe range (747F 9% max fwd, 33% max aft). Understanding MAC is critical as the angle on the horizontal stabilisor is set according to weight & MAC. Also know as "trim".

Edit: Take a look here, there are some explanations for you. Center of gravity of an aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_of_gravity_of_an_aircraft)

[pmartins]

Hi Rui!

If you need any explanation (in portuguese if you want), you may contact me.

[OTA]

Ola, boa tarde, a muito que estava para te responder,
Se tiveres ou poderes, agradeço que me envies para o meu mail,
Precisava de tudo sobre folhas de carga manuais
Obrigado
Rui

[SMT Member]

OTA

Get yourself on a Mass & Balance course, it's the only way to learn the ins and outs of manual load-sheets. This from a guy who used to teach M&B professionally for a number of years.

As a previous poster said, picking up bits of information on a message board will leave rather large holes in your knowledge. Furthermore, there are a number of different load-sheet lay-outs and philosophies, and while they all effectively do the same thing, there are different ways you get to the end result depending on the lay-out and philosophy of any given load-sheet, i.e. is the trimming done by whizz-wheel, drop-down box, christmas tree or index numbers?

As for weights and indicies, that's relatively simple - but won't teach you how to do a load-sheet: Furthermore, the terms used differ from airline to airline, just to make things a tad more complicated. But here's a short rundown:

DOW - Dry Operating Weight (Same as OEW) = Aircraft + crew and standard items (catering, oil, ships documents, catering etc)
DOI - Dry Operating Index = Centre of Gravity at DOW
OW - Operating Weight = DOW + Take-off Fuel
ZFW - Zero Fuel Weight = DOW + payload
LIZFW - Loaded Index ZFW = Centre of Gravity at ZFW, can be translated into a MAC%
RAW - Ramp Weight = ZFW + Ramp Fuel
TOW - Take-off Weight = RAW - taxi fuel
LITOW - Loaded Index TOW = Centre of Gravity at TOW, can be translated into a MAC%
LAW - Landing Weight = TOW - trip fuel
LILAW - Loaded Index LAW = Centre of Gravity at LAW, can be translated into a MAC%

[vangelisb]

Hello if you still need any help with the loadsheet mail at info(at)baggelis.com
and we could arange an meeting in skype and i will try to answer you questions regarding the loadsheet

[Schibulsky]

OTA please tell me you dont work for any airline/ground handler!
And if you do please tell me what it is so I can avoid flying with them!
Hope you are just generally interested in the topic and its not your company's idea of "training" to let you fish for info on the internet!!
Anyway, get some proper training, there are enough half trained guys in the business!:ugh:

[scotiat]

I have to agree with you Schibulsky and SMT member, some of the questions being posted are very concerning.

I run my own company and have been producing manual loading systems for all types of aircraft and I can say that each operator, type of operation, company ground ops procedures, A/c manufacturer, type, model, fuel tank configuration and interior configuration will have a massive impact on what type of trimsheet is produced and how the curtailed flight envelope limits are derived.

This is just the start as you then have to ensure that graphically the trimsheet is presentable, easily populated and produces acurate results for take-off landing etc.

I agree that there are a lot of half trained people out there producing W&B docs thinking that they know what they are doing is correct.

The other issue is that by using other trimsheets as examples to base your trimsheet on is not good practice unless you have the full substantiating data/report that the trimsheet was derived from. That way you can acuratly determine if the trimsheet is accurate and can be used for the basis of your calculations or for reference.

If and when you produce a new trimsheet for your aircraft and if there are any errors within it. It may also end up in someone elses hands being used an example of how to produce their trimsheet and even worse, actually used for their operation. I have known for this to happen with more than one airline.

Anyway, If I can be of any further assistance to you, then please contact me on [email protected]

[Dog Star]

Anyone know why?

On the right side of the chart/sheet where the I.U. is adjusted we first bring the line down from the top, through the pax for zones A, B, and C then the cargo/freight for CP/cargo bays 1,2,3,4, and 5.

Question is:

Why then as we drop down to further adjust for the fuel do the lines go all funny? I mean that rather than continuing to be straight they then become curved?

Any answers? :hmm:

[yuriev]

do you wonder effect of fuel ? i mean fuel index.

[Blue-Shamrock 89]

I agree with the comments above a lot of these questions are very concerning, however it wouldn't surprise me if staff in CLC centres around the world do their training this way.

The lack of confidence in a lot of these guys is frightening it is almost like dealing with call centres where people read off a script, that is why the actual job of load control is / has been diluted, I recall completing re trimming at A/C side due to stop issues on a B747-400 whilst doing a manual load sheet, nowadays someone stands at the Aircraft makes a call and asks to swap 2 bins and gets told no.

Still that's progress I guess airlines like it that way and there is minimal training required at either end.

[pinarelloman]

Dog star,
Think of the effect of fuelling the aircraft. As the fuel fills in the wings(747-400)The fuel effect takes the fuel vector along way forward up to 125,000kg. After this the tail tank comes into play and as it fills at a ratio of 1kgaft/9fwd approx., the trim effect moves aft.
So much so that at MTOW 397210kg approx., if a/c is too tail heavy at ZFW a fuel change of 100kg in the tail tank will put a/c out of trim at TOW.
The shape of the lines reflects the way the fuel travels/fills the wings during fuelling. Except for non standard fuelling scenarios.

[john_tullamarine]

Or, to summarise pinarelloman's post (in italics)

(a) curved lines against a particular load indicate that the load's mean CG varies with the load - most commonly seen with non-prismatic fuel tanks.

For smaller aircraft the designer often approximates varying CG to a constant CG, taking out the error by tweaking the envelope limits. For larger aircraft, especially swept wing, this is not feasible hence you get the actual CG story. Several ways to approach the problem but all have the same result for the calculations ..

It is worth noting that, on occasion, you will see curved lines other than for a load position. Generally, this will occur for aircraft with widely disparate ZFW and in-flight envelopes. Examples are the GII and, if my recollection is correct, the HS125 (although the latter generally doesn't warrant a trimsheet). If this is the situation, there will be a strange-looking grid between the final ZFW trimline and the fuel line(s) ... or the fuel trim can be incorporated into that grid.

Reason, in this case, is to re-scale and then relocate the re-scaled IU scale .. it sounds more complicated than it really is ..

First one of these for which I had to design a sheet (GII 35-odd years ago) caused me a headache until I got my head around that point ...

(b) straight lines (or the simpler tick approach) indicate a constant CG with varying load

.. have to agree with a number of comments/concerns above relating to the oft-seen poor level of understanding on the line and in the backroom ..