Whinging aircrew!

[Admin Guru]

Let me start by saying what a surprise to find a website full of aircrew moaning about pay and conditions!
After hearing about PPrune at work at a certain FJ base (which will remain nameless) I thought it would be interesting to see what the guys were talking about. Well to be honest it doesnt surprise me in the slightest that its full of you guys whinging and bleating about how hard done by you are.
Why cant you just accepet the fact that aircrew are not the be all and end all of the RAF. We in the support branches have just as important a role if not more so than the aircrew.
If not flying you sit around the crewroom with a copy of the telegraph moaning that you deserve more than the already significant flying pay the rest of us do not get! If your job is demanding for a couple of hours a day, twice a week, this is more than balanced by most jobs in the RAF that are demanding 10 hours a day regardless of the weather.
Following on from this I would like to address the elitism that all wearers of a brevet seem to carry with them. In USAF and the RCAF all branches/trades have a specific brevet with differing insignia. This recognises the importance of all trades including the highly worked adminers like myself! Why should this not be the case in the RAF.....a modern airforce? Brevets are after all a hangover from the wartime days arent they?!

I would appreciate any thoughts on the above issues.

[KD]

Suppose he`s got a point . . .

[Alf Aworna]

Admin guru I agree that there is no reason for aircrew to be elitist but your us and them attitude is cringeworthy. Let us get on with our job to the best of our ability and we'll let you get on with yours. I take offence at your implication that we don't do anything all day- get a life and check out some of the current deployments. As my IOT flight commander (an adminner and a good chap)said- the job of the airforce is to fly and fight, the job of those who don't is to support those who do. End of rant

[fobotcso]

Telegraph? TELEGRAPH! He can't be serious. Surely the modern aircrew only read The Times. I smell a Bluntie clone here.

What a surprise it is to find a bluntie moaning about aircrew moaning about pay and conditions!

Just another Troll to be allowed to slip down the page, I suggest.

[slim boy fat]

You want a brevet do you?
Despite your stinking attitude, you may be right about other branches having some sort of insignia on thier uniform to identify what they do- though I do think wings would be a going tad too far.

Come to think of it, what do you all think about the wearing of brevets on items of uniform other than just flying suits, jerseys and no.1s etc? I`m sure if we suggested brevets on shirts, for example, our bluntie colleagues would accuse us of wanting to show off.

As for elitism, Admin Guru, just remember- I could do your job any day- you could never do mine.
<img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[Fg Off Max Stout]

Admin Grunt: Interesting to see a bluntie visit the Pro PILOTS Ru Ne and throw in a grenade. 'Aircrew are not the be all and end all of the RAF'. Interesting point but we are not here to hurl paperclips at the baddies - read again what Alf Aworna said 'the job of those who don't...' With respect, Sir, ram it. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[Jackonicko]

Admin sec standards have slipped if he spells whingeing like that.....

Did he go to OASC wanting to be admin as his first choice, I wonder?

[Talking Radalt]

Boys and girls, relax. Read between the lines. This is so obviously someone's fishing exped it just isn't true.(Read Admin Guru's profile: Occupation, OC Admin at a "fast jet base that shall remain nameless". Oh do ***** off)
Whoever you are Admin Guru, if your initial comments are genuine I suggest you poke off;
On the other hand if you're some jibing idiot who likes to antagonise already stressed and weary people (of all trades) further still in the name of "humour" I suggest you poke off.
Your PPRuNe registration date suggests you thought of this little wheeze only this evening in the gap between Blue Peter and Neighbours.
I hope your next $hit is a hedgehog.....tail first...followed by it's extended family.

[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: Talking Radalt ]</p>

[whisperer]

Admin Guru has a valid point, even if he did not put it across very well, sure the members of the winged master race whinge a lot, if they didnt something would be VERY wrong <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> The grown up green men KNOW the importance of all their support staff and its up to them to teach their juniors the same. As for recognition well maybe if some of the `support` agencies actualy supported then maybe things would be better. For example, at a nameless FJ base Handbrake house closes it`s doors to customers when manning is tight, rather than taking the hit and working late or over the weekend. A lot of the so called `them and us` attitude is down to agencies complaining when their customers expect them to do the job they are paid for.

[Megaton]

Looks like it's the open season again. :)

[Arm out the window]

Of course, this 10 hours a day Admin 'Guru' refers to consists of 1/2 an hour each for morning and afternoon tea, an hour for lunch, ducking off to the gym for an hour and a quarter, going to the bank and the post office, punctuated by long bursts of swanning around to all your mates' offices drinking cups of tea and coffee and calling it 'liaison'.
After all that, no wonder he or she is feeling a bit knackered.

[EESDL]

Admin Guru extoll the virtues of the Septic Tanks' form of recognition and yet the Yanks wear their wings on everything, if there's room aside the medals.
So, yes Admin Guru, put an SRO out tomorrow (best wait 'til after the weekend, it's too close to Friday's afternoon run to the bank), ordering all aircrew to sew their wings on to their desert fatigues, their Mk 18a Wooley Pulley, one off..blah....blah

[OldBonaMate]

Admin Guru

Good post! You are obviously in the business of stirring the pot to get some reaction - you must be bored!

If you are serious (heaven forbid), all I can say is that you need reminding that without aircraft and hence aircrew you don't have an Air Farce. What would you do/or bellyache about then?

Get back to counting paperclips and ensuring that handbrake house is only open for the convenience of those who work there rather than their customers.

<img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[AllTrimDoubt]

Admin Guru

...hope your post was in jest, but even so you need to indent for 1x life. You, Sir, have the attitude and outlook of a Fishead. :)

[BEagle]

Whilst our blunt chum may well be a wind-up merchant, if he isn't then may I suggest that he reads the 'Latest TV advert' thread to understand how aircrew accept that their jobs wouldn't be possible without the supporting branches in the RAF.

Oh - and in your 10 hours at work today, O Blunt One, could you find out why I've been waiting for a pair of size 8 medium lightweight flying boots and an officer's SD cap to come into stores since 6 Nov 01; there is apparently 'an inability'? And then let us whinging aircrew know what active measures are being taken to improve matters?

Not a whinge, just curious.........

[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: BEagle ]</p>

[Mach the Knife]

Admin Guru

SOD OFF BLUNTIE

[spicycoke]

currently employed over on the green and oh so damp isle working a 21days on 7 off shift.Our blunt chums complain that we are treated with a preferencial time off. 1. its not only us it's the gingers who have a similar shift 2. on my only blank day, sunday i cant get any F*$**** admin done.Oh and we aircrew work a 14 hr shift. As for the cock ups adminers manage can we NCR your type yet cos sure as **** if as an eng(in my former life) i screwed up i would have been.My advice to you is go for re-selection and contact me when youve visited south Armagh for some enlightning tasking. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[St Johns Wort]

Admin Gonad is covering some very old ground, both of his issues have been covered in Air Clues. Remember the Provost Officer who wrote a very nasty letter about our heroic aircrew? Even further back was the issue of brevets (not flying badges) for all. There was a quill in a half wing for our yappy admin type but my favourite was a little embroided snowdrop in a half wing....sweet!
This thread should be in the burn bag and our fishing admin gonads catch should be two of Captain Birdseyes finest...salutea! :)

[Big Green Arrow]

I love this...when will we learn about the 'Japanese Trawlers' that appear on this site and their unscrupulous ways of getting a good 'catch'?

Come on guys...don't disappoint Admin Spanner!

[neilk]

If you don't like yer job b**ger off and find one you do like, I know many happy ground spikes who never want to fly, and all the rest do, as to a brevet, To55er!

[Flt Lt Spry]

I love Adminers. Who else would sort out my travel claims and rate 1s to help supplement my sadly deficient income?

[KD]

Before I get flashed at I`m only playing Devils Advocate here . .. . . .

Admin Guru , whoever he is (or isn`t) DOES have a point about the brevets . Having spent some time with the RCAF , every man and has dog has one , as well as a "flight suit" and as such , the "them and us" attitude is far less prevalent .
You can even get Admin Support Badges for a flying suit !!!

I can`t believe that everyone has ACTUALLY DONE WHAT THE GURU SAID IN HIS FIRST LINE !! The best way to humble him would have been to say nothing !!

Brevets for all ! Give us something to laugh about in Happy Hour wouldn`t it ?

[Admin Guru]

How unsurprised, I encounter the usual "shut up bluntie", "paperclip counter" attitude from those "well educated" aircrew types. For your information and those who did not read the first post properly, yesterday was my 1st experience of PPRune, hence my registration date.

I know I am not god-like aircrew, but I did not see the disclaimer banning anyone with related topics that arent pilots.

Bearing that in mind I have more to say. The attitude held by yourselves that we in handbrake house only drink coffee is as ill-informed as it is derogatory. Who processes your incorrectly written F1771s and F295d`s (for the young ones!).
Who looks after every single piece of admin that gets your jet in the air and your families medical and dental sorted out. All this without any threats of leaving for Anderson Consulting that would give me a salary dwarfing any offered by the airlines for pilots! On that subject I actually do have a PPL! So I am aware of the demands of flying.

I would like to see some reasoned arguements from the two wing master race answering my original questions. On the 2 wing master race, I would like to ask UAS "pilots" to kindly keep their weekend, student opinions to themselves. The issue of a white stripe, growbag and an attitude does not give you aircrew bragging "rights". I have more hours in my civvy log book than you will get on the Tutor.

I look forward to hearing some decent answers from you all.

[spencedavies]

Admin Guru!

Imposter!

A real OC Admin would spell and punctuate correctly.

A real OC Amin would not be at home posting to PPrune at 1630 on a Thursday.

A real OC Admin would have diligently read all the posts in this thread, not simply pounced on the ones which nearly stooped to the level of your opening remarks.

A real OC Admin would have checked pages 6 and 7 of the TV ad thread and been proud of the team spirit on display.

A real OC Admin would not have the time or money to waste on a PPL, which, I can assure you, is no introduction to the pressures of flying.

A real OC Admin wouldn't shout at the next generation, whose comments are as welcome here as anyone else's nonsense.

A real OC Admin wouldn't feel so unloved and unworthy as to have to provoke aircrew into admitting that blunties have a vital role to play.

A real OC Admin would be aware that aircrew do not work only for a couple of hours twice a week as evidenced by the quantity of paperwork required to detach and deploy them to 'interesting' places for long periods.

A real OC Admin would be aware that his limited experience in a very sheltered military environment would not get him a good job in the city.

A real OC Admin would have learned by now that if there really is a ground / aircrew divide that this will not be healed by bitterness.

Areal OC Admin...

... oh sod this I'm bored now. I'm off to book a week in the Seychelles and order my next Lotus.

[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: Fanta Drinking Jessie ]</p>

[KD]

FDJ,

Are you an adminer ? <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: KD ]</p>

[teawhite1]

Hey guys!
Thanks so much for this string! I was missing all this "us v them" backbiting. And it is still funny how pen-pushers can whinge on and on about bloody aircrew, when, as previously mentioned, I could do his job with my finger up me a*se, whereas he couldn't do ours as long as he has a hole up his.

[uncle peter]

I could say that you should have worked harder at school, upped your work rate fella etc .... but im not going to.

i am heartened by the fact you realise the error of your ways and still hold a candle for the position of 2 winged master, perhaps a perusal at the wannabes forum might be in order!

maybe this will answer some of your points: I believe I am presently the worst paid 4 engined jet captain in the uk. I receive flying pay for numerous reasons, including the fact that I am in possession of marketable skills that, as a PPL, you do not yet posses. although many are happy with their lot many peoples priorities change.

"aircrew are not the be all and end all of the RAF" oh really! and what would your branch incompetently support without us? Remember, without aircrew you would merely be a member of the Royal Force.

if you dont like the moaning dont listen and dont read.

come over to the dark side so you can whinge too, at least you may be able to run an imprest properly.

[spencedavies]

No, KD, I am of the 2-wing master-race. But you can't help feeling sorry for the poor ******s. It's sad enough that God didn't bless them with the skill or intellect to be aircrew without some complete imposter coming here and making them all look like bitter, narrow-minded to55ers.

[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: Fanta Drinking Jessie ]</p>

[Tonkenna]

Oh hurrahh,

Back to this again. Sir, if you are a "real OC Admin", what do you expect posting such thing on a pilot forum. If you really beleive taht we only do a couple hours of work a day then you are very, very out of touch.

I prefer to think that this is just some one on a wind up, an hey, thats cool cause we all like bashing other trades (its called banter, blunties often don't get it <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> )

Oh, and please don't have a go at UAS students and there postings, thats my job on my Sqn (Spacer, Flipper, are you out there?)

Anyway, I am sure the rest of you will continue bashing, and FDJ you are so right, Real OC Admin !!!!! <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Tonks

[Up Very Gently]

FDJ - quality response Sir!!

To be fair to "Admin Guru", we do have a serious problem with Admin retention in the RAF - they are leaving in droves, and it is only a question of time before overstretch of Tac Admin Wg becomes untenable. And then what will we do? No, far better to give them some form of Admin pay - perhaps performance related - and generate a brevet for them. In fact, has anyone got any good ideas other than a "winged pen"? Perhaps we could have a competition.

In short, bless "Admin Guru and his ilk, for they are what makes the world go round.

UVG
<img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[spencedavies]

Dearest Admin Guru,

I would like to offer you the reasoned arguments for which you ask...

We get paid more due to simple supply and demand pressures. I contest that MoD would not pay more than the minimum necessary to recruit and retain any branch; this is true for ac drivers, doctors, dentists and dog-handlers alike.

Creating extra brevets would be divisive. Better to reduce the number of different badges or brevets surely and employ the 'all of one company' approach to bridge the obvious divide.

I hope that this is a satisfactory reply, however I do suspect that you are merely spoiling for a battle of wits for which it appears you are ill-equipped. If so, please come and have a go if you think you're hard enough, but remember: to do the same damage, a blunt object needs more energy than a sharp one.

Love always,

FDJ

[skywatcher]

Typical Admin. Working 10 hour days yea right. Come back the days when we flew 8 hour missions. It ain't worth getting out of bed for less than 12 now. Having come back from some where hot and sandy, the blunties came up with an idea of having Ord Off/Ord Sgt. Now who was under employed to think that one up. not to mention work parties on our day off!!!

Ops Admin Admin Ops. MMMMMMMMM <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[Flatus Veteranus]

BEagle

Are you sure you did not mistype the size of your boots? Size 8 medium? I thought there was supposed to be a correlation between the size of one's foot and that of one's willy!

Ah the sweetness of power! As a Sqn Cdr at Waddo in the '60s you had virtually none. But just once I managed to pull rank to good effect. The word was out that the aircrew feeder was not opening in good time to get the "0800 slot" off with a decent breakfast inside them. At 0400 one morning a Co called in to say he was sick and wasn't going to make it, so I slunk off down to Ops and announced a "no-notice" crew check. Everything went off tickety-boo and according to SOPs until at the due time we went into the feeder for our fry-up. No cook. I phoned OC Catering Sqn at his home and told him to get his arse into ops pronto. He tried to remonstrate so I told him I was standing in for one of my Flying Officers so he could bloody well stand in for his Corporal. The only time I have had a meal cooked by a Sqn Ldr!

[Bervie]

Brevets for all - GET FU&lt;KED IMHO.

Why should everyone have a brevet with different symbology, I think thats toss. What are the admin staff going to have? A single wing with an embroidered laptop? Or maybe a scroll to keep with the modern air farce.

Keep brevets for aircrew only and keep the healthy rivalry that is there between ground branch and aircrew. After all, admin struggles are the basis of most good aircrew moans after a visit to handbrake house.

I do like the idea of laughing at KD`s spot of the 'ADMIN SUPPORT' flying suit badge in the bar. What self respecting adminer would sport such a ridiculous creation? But it would be funny to see.

Live the dream admin guys! What was the failing - apptitude or medical?

[Al Titude]

Brevets for blunties?
Good idea.

To make it fair though, I suggest a brevet size corresponding to the amount of time spent in training. Obviously with the wings representing up to four years, the admin course of 10 weeks at Halton should be 1/20th size. I suggest a small pin badge with a handbrake in the middle.


<img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[Reichman]

OC Admin at a fast jet base...?

Why not visit a fast jet base and tw*t the respective OC Admin - really hard. Got about a 1 in 6 chance of getting the right one.

[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: Reichman ]</p>

[Captain Kirk]

Admin Guru,

'I actually do have a PPL! So I am aware of the demands of flying'

I can drive Golf Gti so I would probably be able to hold my own with Michael Schumaker in F1!?!

OPERATING a complex and dynamic weapon system in an uncompromising environment is SLIGHTLY different from taking your mother up to see her house.

If you are serious old boy, I despair. I strongly suggest that you actually VISIT one of the FJ sqns on your base and see what is really happening. On my base we are very fortunate to have a great relationship with all of the supporting units. Nevertheless, and I say this without ANY fear of contradiction, there is no single branch that works harder, be it in absolute hours or intensity of task, than the pilots.

I will not even go into the consequences of error - you are not worthy of my absent friends.

Beam me up!

[circle kay]

Well I for one would love to be on Admin Guru's station. So OC Admin would sort out were my loved ones could go to the dentist!! He is a wonderful admin man or "Bluff Card" you be the judge. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[Sangiovese]

Gosh this must be the fastest growing thread ever!

Anyway Admin Chappie,

Your quote of:

'All this without any threats of leaving for Anderson Consulting that would give me a salary dwarfing any offered by the airlines for pilots!'

If you had any commercial knowledge, you would know that Andersen Consulting was split last year from Arthur Andersen (accounting) to become Accenture. So you obviously have a complete lack of simple commercial knowledge too! And there's no way they'd employ an MOD accountant!

Now go back to your tactical green biros.

[Talking Radalt]

Admin "Guru".
Congratualtions. You speak such clarity.
On the other hand...
You are clearly a fake, a charlatan, an imposter, a living breathing Walter Mitty who yearns self-important yet finite popularity amongst his equally short-sighted peers, brought about by the claim that he "got those aircrew guys a treat".

So I tip my hat to you, for today you are the wise guy.

Tomorrow we will all still be doing what we love - flying...and getting paid for it...and receiving the mix of admiration and envy of those who appreciate what we do, adminners included.
You on the other hand will be left to scavenge like a hungry dog for another equally shallow solution to your thirst for so-called fame.
If you were half as smart as you incorrectly perceive yourself to be, you'd notice that most people contribute to this forum in a chatty, conversational style, not the IOT-taught grammatically correct grammar-school form of English that you have researched and subsequently mimicked to try and add weight to your juvenile rantings.
Your comments are so transparent they simply defy a reasoned, well-balanced response.

Good initial joke mate, now go finish your homework, it's nearly bedtime.

[spencedavies]

Newsflash.

Check out the Guru's profile, he's changed it.

Now we know what he really does, and what he aspires to, we can feel even more sorry for him than we did before.

Oh, hang on... just in case he changes it again it now says '1st tour admin sec'.

Still, ten out of ten for coming clean. Much less embarrassing for any real OC Admins - I wonder if yours was watching.

[spencedavies]

Admin Guru!

Imposter!

A real 1st tourist adminner would have even worse spelling and punctuation.

A real 1st tourist adminner would be too meek, timid and generally in awe of aircrew to venture onto this site.

A real 1st tourist adminner wouldn't be able to afford a brevet even if entitled, so wouldn't want one.

You must be OC Admin after all.

--- disappears in a puff of logic

[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: Fanta Drinking Jessie ]</p>

[Capt Widebody]

Alright Guru.....

Yeah... good to see you. How's.. how's yer missus then? Good, yeah... well, give my love to the family... OK, see ya...


...(C**t!) :) :) :)

[Farfrompuken]

Admin Geekster seems to be from the same hospital that an OC Admin from a large tanker/transport base was recently discharged from.
That person was quoted as saying "If there were no jets here, my job would be so much easier". Even better, another clanger was dropped at a Flight Safety meeting: "What's Flight Safety got to do with Admin?".

At a certain 24 hour base in Oxon, there seems to be two tiers to the RAF: those that do the job, regardless of time of day/day of week, and those that have no real idea of the fact that is is the role of the RAF to fly and fight, and the job of those that don't is to support those that do.

AG - open your eyes and get a grip. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[Admin Guru]

OK I have come clean about my real post, of course Im not OC Admin (and if i was would i admit to it here) but would you lot reveal your actual identity?! I think not hence - "RAF Aircrew" under job title. So am I not entitled to be a bit vague too.

Firstly I contest this pathetic view that because I am a 1st tourist "bluntie" I dont have the courage to come on an aircrew forum and voice my opinion. I believe timid was the word used. As for being generally in awe of aircrew, come on! You are not all the bronzed, ultra-fit, model looks Tom Cruise type who straps the jet on his back and rips around Blighty defending the realm!
REALITY CHECK chaps!

FDJ - Think its weird Im posting on a thursday afternoon? Never heard of a day off! Anyway shouldnt you be heroically wizzing down the glens instead of being on PPRune during the day?!!!!

Capt Kirk - "Operating a complex and dynamic weapons system"....FJ`s Yes but what about Hercs at 150kts.

Al T - You have no idea about admin trg!

Talking Radalt - "defy a reasoned,well balanced response" Is this the chatty conversation style you endorse? Im amazed. How in the name of Bader can a well written and grammatically correct response be taken as justification for inaccurate content? I suggest sir, it is your grasp of the English language that is based purely on an IOT education. Oh aircrew Im not worthy - to use your chatty conversational style.

Capt Widebody - Nice to see a Derek & Clive fan, you must be a good lad!

To the rest of you. Im still waiting for the semblence of a reasonable argument. Dont equate "blunty" with not being able to kick your ass, blunt or not.

Originally my post did not dispute the obvious need for aircrew in the RAF. It was only asking why you all continually bleat about pay and conditions when that will do nothing to improve them.

[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: Admin Guru ]</p>

[spencedavies]

Admin Guru,

To take your points in turn...

We don't hide our identities very well; most of us know each other or can narrow it down to a few possibilities. Since I don't write anything here I'm ashamed of, you can call me on 95751 7700 and ask for Deputy OC D. Your turn.

Day off...? day off...? have to get back to you on that one. I'll ask in SHQ.

I've never flown Albert but I'm sure it is complex, dynamic and capable of carrying various weapons. Why would it be at 150 kts, is it landing?

Admin trg. All I know is that it obviously doesn't cover spelling, punctuation, grammar, tact, respect or honesty - or perhaps you just didn't do very well - yes that's it.

You think your posts were well written. See above.

Capt Widebody is clearly a good chap, but I believe he called you a c**t.

I'd stay up and chat but I have to be up for work at a time when your dreams of flying are still making your pyjamas crusty.

Goodnight.

[Captain Kirk]

Admin 'not yet' Guru

Use your first tour wisely - visit sqns, talk with aircrew, learn about the RAF.

Gents,

I suggest we leave this little lamb to get some time in...and for this thread to wither.

[OldBonaMate]

1st tour admin/sec now is he? Next we'll read that he's really the cleaner in SHQ.

Actually I just wanted to make the 47th post in 24 hours. Is this a record?

AG if you really are who you say you are, go to bed laddie and leave it alone.

Dammit 2 minutes early! edited for timing

[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: OldBonaMate ]</p>

[spencedavies]

47 was a record but now it's 48

[OldBonaMate]

Anybody know where I can buy a better watch my old Omega isn't keeping very good time these days.

[Fg Off Max Stout]

Admin Loser: You are so full of sh :p t.

Nice to see you lay into UAS studes asking them to keep their opinions to themselves and then say that your opinion is worth something.You don't apear to be too well qualified yourself.

As for bitching about putting down RAF Aircrew or similar for job description, it's a bit more upfront than saying OC Admin. You are a liar as well as a f :rolleyes: cking idiot.

You are clearly bitter about your sh!tty job - you whinge about aircrew and at the same time yearn to wear the brevet/wings/badges etc. Go out and buy a 'Top Gun' leatherette jacket - I'm sure you already use the pilot line to try to pull the girls. Loser.

I'm off now because I'm briefing at 0630 tomorrow for a 7hr sortie and no I won't be getting coffee breaks. I suggest you now f :mad: ck off out of the forum and browse some porn sites, reject some claim forms or whatever it is you do tomake your mundane life more bearable. As for hustling for a punch up, you're on your own against all aircrew and the majority of groundies who are intelligent and decent people. 'able to kick arse': you're retarded.

Oh I do love it when it gets angry.

BTW, you'll find your mighty cessna performs better if you use diesel instead of avgas.

[Talking Radalt]

Nah Kirky lets keep baiting the geeky ickle twerp and that way he really will think he's errr... relevant? (Gee those aircrew guys just keep fighting back)
Can't you see we've got him biting back now? The idiot can't even see when it's not WHAT you're saying but the WAY in which you say it that's the real urine-extraction!
In a very pompous and unnecessarily complex reply I berated him for being too.....pompous and unnecessarily complex.
And the total tit bit back.

Like I said about him...
"So today you are the wise guy..."

Only today though, in fact I think his wisdom fizzled out when most of us got in from work and logged on.

Others have offered and I'll add to it, put your face where your BLUNT, BROKEN, SOFT-LEADED PENCIL is and come fly the unfriendly skies with the Crazy Horses, the Trunkies or S Club. Being frightfully brave we might even let you have a clutch and you can learn (a new experience there too) just how f***ing easy we MAKE IT LOOK and thus why we get paid so much. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

And as for not being worthy of using our "chatty conversational style", you're also light years away from being worthy of wearing the same uniform.

"Slider, You stink."

[ 17 January 2002: Message edited by: Talking Radalt ]</p>

[Surditas]

Righto, Mr Guru, I will bite.
Yep, no worries with you remaining anonymous, that is part of what the intermail thingy is all about. No worries with you saying that you blokes in admin are vital to the air force (RAF or RAAF, doesn't matter). No worries about us aircrew sitting around the crewie complaining about things when we are not flying. Everyone in the military complains. They always have and always will. No real worries about "...aircrew are not the be all and end all..." of the air force. We are a reasonably important part of it, tho.
The bits that do concern me (and you will note I am trying to counter your original post in a reasoned way) are as follows:
1) You complain about not getting flying pay. Is your work environment noisy, cramped, unbearably hot, unbearably cold, cargenogenic, and liable to transport you places that WILL kill you if you get it wrong? Ah, thought not.
2) Before you work for a "two hour" stretch do you have to sit down with the rest of your crew and plan, note, preflight your desk in any weather, supervise, liaise, consider, replan before you even start your task? Afterwards do you debrief? Oh, right.
3) Everytime you sit at your desk are you assessed by your juniors, peers and superiors? If you write a minute wrong are you placing yourself and others around you in danger or are you facing the possibility of being suspended from your primary duties? OK, so you just rewrite it then.
4) Have you put in years of training to get where you are now, only to realise that as a junior member of your Squadron you essentially know nothing and have everything to learn? Nup.
5) When you work your "two hours" at your desk are you concentrating 100%, not taking a break for a cuppa or a ciggie? Uh huh.
6) Brevets may be a "...hangover from the wartime days..." but the folks that wore them back then were the ones who put their lives on the line. How many adminos have won the VC?
OK, I don't look like Tom Cruise, I don't fly a FJ and I don't rip around "defending the realm" but I try and do my job as well and as professionally as I can and that is all I expect from other people in the service. I don't set out to denigrate other service members, except maybe navs.
Oh, and as for having a PPL and being "...aware of the demands of flying" I find that pretty amusing. I had a CPL before joing the RAAF and that prepared me for approx nothing with mil aviation. Just like FDJ I don't fly a Herc, but I am not about to believe that it is easy. Every aeroplane can be difficult in its own way. Sure, a Fast Jet is harder to operate than other types, but that doesn't mean that something with a couple of props is easier than walking (although some FJ guys would disagree :) . BTW that's called banter. Clearly, AG, you haven't heard of it.)
Now, I did set out to dispassionately argue my case, but I feel I may have become a little emotional about this, so I guess you achieved the aim Admin G. Say, are you related to Ali G? In that case I take it all back. Maximum respeck. Then again, no, I don't take it back.

Oh, and can anyone in Blighty lend us your cricket team. Ours appears U/S at the moment. Bloody kiwis, but that's another story.

[Talking Radalt]

OK OK all us aircrew have got it wrong...
You can tell this by all the other adminners who have rushed to defend Admin Zero's well balanced and thought-out prose and at the same time down-sized our preposterous delusions.
(And Yes AG other adminners do read this, yep even your boss. And if you're as gobby at work as you are on here he's probably pretty sure who you are!) <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[a_plane_like_this]

Although I have never been and hopefully never will be an Admino, I have been dare I say a B..B..B..Blunt (I hated that word then and still do) before seeing the light and becoming a member of the doubled winged master race. Therefore I have been part of conversations both bagging non-aircrew (as I prefer to call our non-brevet brethren) as well as the standard aircrew bashing. Aircrew do whinge, fact of life, but so do a lot of trades. Ever spent anytime in a maintenance hanger you will hear nothing but the sound of groundies complaining. Ask ATC what they think of Aircrew and they will probably react the same way you did but for different reasons. Ask what Pilots think about Navs, or Trash haulers about Knuckleheads and you'll get some spitting and gnashing of teeth. Its part of the Service. However at the end of the day, we must remember why we are here and the job we do. In a war, Aircrew are the ones who die. If fact in peace time, Aircrew have far more risk day to day than Non-Aircrew. Its not surprising there is a fair bit of elitism amongst us. No-one will ever say we don't need support, but if you want to lessen your worth, then keep writing posts that will clearly **** people off. You will find as your career progresses (assuming you remain in the service) all is not always what it seems.

[Ed Winchester]

Admin Guru (like that would take a lot of achieving),

After another hard day on the squadron, drinking coffee, smerking tabs and thinking of other ingenious ways to justify my ludicrous amounts of flying pay, I dipped into my bag of cunning banter and found it empty.

So, unfortunately, I will have to resort to the old not so cunning favourites:

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/flip.gif

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/knob.gif

Now I know you are a new kid on the block, so remember, it is banter. Don't shed any tears, you might smudge your mascara.

[FishHead]

Quite an amusing windup <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Really, the thing that says it all for me is the bit from AG about:
[quote]
Capt Kirk - "Operating a complex and dynamic weapons system"....FJ`s Yes but what about Hercs at 150kts.
<hr></blockquote>

Not being a trashie myself, but the idea that someone would sledge them like that when they obviously have no idea sums up their credibility.

Oh... and for AllTrimDoubt:
[quote]
You, Sir, have the attitude and outlook of a Fishead
<hr></blockquote>
Nothing wrong with being a FishHead!
(although we may have some translation thing happening between the RAAF and RAF)

Edited: I just realised - you couldn't have been talking about me, 'cause you were talking about a 'Fis head'......

[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: FishHead ]</p>

[Kaa050]

Ed Winchester,

Funniest Animations I've ever seen!!!!

Laft-Me-Ass_off!!!!!

Admin Chap.........

Stop being bitter, start being friendly. Who knows, one of those aircrew chaps might be your next best mate.

But, sadly, based on what you've said, probably not.

Hey Ho! I expect you'll be a miserable "B" for your whole service. But then, Money Eh????

Nah.....probably not that either.........
Sad, alone, in a flat in Bethnal Green.........


Chin Up!


Kaa <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[AllTrimDoubt]

For Fish Head

No offence Sir! I use the term liberally and equate AG to the very worst of the breed. (Qualified to do so since joined as one meself but I reckon 16 years and tours as both QFI and QHI equates to an honourable shag transfer!)

Regards
(and knob off to AG!) :) :)

[Ralf Wiggum]

Respect to our bluntie friend. He's got everyone out of the woodwork. I have still no idea what his/her intentions were/are, but some posters on the thread have made as much a fool of themselves as they have of him/her.

'Chill Winston' - Some of the remarks have been the most unconstructive drivel I've heard since joining this site. We all have a job to do and whilst I would not be able to fly a fast jet, while breathing and moaning at the same time, I could nnot do a bluntie's job either.

Some idiot early on in the post claimed that he could do an OC Admins job. Some of you can't even fill in a leave app or F1771 correctly and I dare say that the same idiot was one who has had his forms sent back on numerous occasions.

As for the whingeing thread. Yes, everyone whinges. Dare to deny it. I bet our bluntie friend does too, even though his balls probably haven't dropped yet or she hasn't started growing lady bumps.

This thread achieved so much more than most expected and I reckon that anyone outside the job, especially Hacks, will be p*ssing themselves with the drivel that's being spouted.

I have a good education, but remember that an education isn't everything. For one, it's not an elephanet.

(Edited for dyslec..Disl...Spelling)

[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: Ralf Wiggum ]</p>

[bigley]

Must be at the wrong station, cos everytime I make a mistake on a 1771 it's returned for ME to correct!!!

An' anover fing:

Just had an ACR returned because I didn't sign it in black ink!

[Tonkenna]

Dear Mr Admin Mate,

First of all, well done for admiting that you are not an OC Amin, it was very obvious.

Lets look at the points you raise in the initial post.

1. "Let me start by saying what a surprise to find a website full of aircrew moaning about pay and conditions!"

Well, it is a pilots forum. I have heard plenty of Adminers, suppliers, ATC, doctors etc etc moan about exactly the same kind of things, but they dont have a web site. Start one if you want but don't tell us what we can't complain about here.

2. "Why cant you just accepet the fact that aircrew are not the be all and end all of the RAF."

True, but we are all here to put bombs on targets, and at the moment that requires pilots so please accept that.

"We in the support branches have just as important a role if not more so than the aircrew."

Well yes you are are important, put you do not put that bomb on the target. Everyone has a job to do, you obviously have a hard on about something, you are the only one that can sort that out.

3. "If not flying you sit around the crewroom with a copy of the telegraph moaning that you deserve more than the already significant flying pay the rest of us do not get! If your job is demanding for a couple of hours a day, twice a week, this is more than balanced by most jobs in the RAF that are demanding 10 hours a day regardless of the weather."

Oh, if only. My current job sees me airborne 3-4 times per day weather permitting. If not then I have ****e loads of paperwork, reports and secondary duties to perform as well as preperation for lessons and tests. I am not on the front line at the moment, but have spent several years there. As a Tanker pilot I spent weeks out of the coutry working long hours and often at short notice. We all have our problems, but don't mouth off about things you don't understand.

4. "Following on from this I would like to address the elitism that all wearers of a brevet seem to carry with them. In USAF and the RCAF all branches/trades have a specific brevet with differing insignia. This recognises the importance of all trades including the highly worked adminers like myself!"

I worked bl00dy hard to get my wings, and it is what I wanted from the age of 6. If you want a brevet then fine, but the USAF have it wrong IMHO. Wings are for pilots and that is how it should stay. Perhaps you could have a set of crossed pens our something?

I fail to see why you are supprised that this site has complaints from aircrew, however, if you read other threads there is a lot of good stuff to. It is human nature to complain, and I think we have good reason. If there was no reason then why can't we keep aircrew in the RAF??

Tonks

Edited cause I am aircrew and can't spell/punctuate (oh, but neither can our blunty friend :) )

[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: Tonkenna ]</p>

[Jackonicko]

Poor chap.

Clearly failed aircrew or more likely a non-select at OASC to have that kind of attitude.

And with that kind of attitude to UAS studes, he must be at a FJ base which also has a UAS, or be terribly bitter about having been too thick for uni, which must be difficult now that even Derby Tech is a Uni, and you need only the most modest qualifications to get into higher/tertiary education. Or perhaps his UAS took one look at him and said: "No thanks."

Most of us who aren't aircrew recognise the sterling job you chaps do, are suitably grateful, and understand the difficult background against which you have to operate. Who wouldn't whinge at some of the $hit you have to put up with? (Even if most of you you lack the correct degree of respect and love for us poor hardworking journos.....! Oh, OK then!)

But not all those who are blunt are remotely like he is, and who knows, maybe he'll now go out and look at the sharp end with open eyes.

[Al Titude]

Refreshing that the (misguided) fool actually has the bollox to stand up and voice his opinions, even though they are utter s#ite!
Bloody funny forum though, haven't laughed so much at the Prune in ages - has the post generated a unified response from all aircrew for the first time?

However, Admin G, you are a w@nker

[Gainesy]

I can't help but feel sorry for the poor bloody airmen that work for the clot.

[Big Tudor]

Not just aircrew unified in their vitriol towards AG. As ex mil ATC I can say with some confidence that he is obviously a tw@t of the highest order.
Perhaps a special AG brevet could be issued. Any suggestions ??

As if correctly filling out an F1771 is something to write home about. AG, I can correctly fill out a F2905. Can you?? Do you even know what the chuff it is?

As has been pointed out on a number of previous posts aircrew are not the only ones to whinge (although they are very good at :) ) .
I feel an introduction to the erstwhile gentlemen of the RAF Regiment may be in order for AG. Preferably on a dark evening down a quiet alleyway.

[Rude C'man]

Sorry guys can't resist this one!!It'sa got to be done!!!!!
Admin bloke, **** off and co*k up someones life somewhere else will you! this is an aircrew forum and you were not invited in.
Don't like our banter or whinging? then don't sit near us, talk to us or even stay in the same room as us.

[Farfrompuken]

AG

The reason aircrew gripe and groan is because there are w@nkers like you to contend with on a daily basis. We do NOT get paid enough for that, I'm afraid.
For example, a crew of a heavy-jet in TTH (Look it up you loser) arrived to find themselves without accomodation available (should have been sorted out by the 'Support Staff'). No problem. Kip on the jet. The snag arose when they missed dinner, due to a 3 hour wait on the pan as a result of some very poor ground handling. The so-called 'Support Staff' refused to sign the F95, and claimed they should have anticipated the 3 hour wait and ordered a late meal! What planet are these people on?

AG, the worry is that you will remain in the RAF for some length of time, since even an outfit like Dixons would find your attitude well below the mark.
Aknowledged, there are some very helpful people out there, but you are obviously not one of them.

As for crass comments about Hercs at 150 Kts: have you ever been up in one at low level when they do their funky stuff? I didn't think so.

PVR now and do us all a favour. Let me know what Dixons say. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[Admin Guru]

You want to talk about Blunt - try FDJ, Deputy OC D Sqn. Quite obviousely an IOT Flt Cdr! Well, I rest my case on that one. Thanks for your phone number though!

I have obviously touched a few raw nerves and didnt want to appear too obtuse. But I am still greeted with responses no more imaginative or informative than a school child. "you are a w@nker" on every post is not the sort of response I would have expected from professional pilots.

Enjoy your weekend all God Like heroes. Oh and another thing, what happened to happy hour for all you under the thumb married chaps! Home already?

[Talking Radalt]

Errr did I miss something that's only obvious to geeky blunt admin wasters?
"You are a ****** wasn't the reply I was expecting".
What did you expect?
What did I miss in your original thread that endeared you so warmly to us that we should respond in any other fashion? You think WE'RE unreasonable and misguided?
Tell you what take a look at the odds here. YOU (singular) think ALL OF US (multiple) are twats. And WE all think YOU are a **** too. There's more of US than there are of you. That's settled then.

You are a ****.

You just don't get it do you? Take a long slow look at this thread from the very top and you'll notice one thing. I bet you're the kind of **** who marches along thinking "Oh look, it's everyone else who's out of step, not me"
And anuvver fing.
Do not start taking swipes at wives and girlfriends, simply because some folk have responsibilities elsewhere. I know your missus is made up of pixels & newsprint and is called "Donna, 23 from Chester" but OUR ladies are extremely supportive not just to their own family (and don't even think about taking that as meaning they $hag around); we consider them all part of the closely knit aircrew team that you will never, ever be part of.

And just to make sure let's try some thing:
All those who think Admin Zero is a complete **** say "Aye", no other comments just "Aye", agreed? And in seven days we'll have a count.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

What....home already like yourself? (unless you have access to a computer in the bar!)

Grow up you puerile tit

[Farfrompuken]

Touched a raw nerve, there, didn't I? Obviously got rejected from Dixons. Must really hurt.

As far as your comments about happy hour/weekends and thumb action, some of us work weekends, and are happily married to boot. Perhaps yours aint so happy, or your sexual orientation doesn't entitle you to an OMQ?

Either that or you're reeling me in..... <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[KD]

TR

Good points all valid , but there really is no need to flash up and use oofensive language to get your point across.

Personally , let him say what he wants . To get wound up by it to the extent you have is just ammo . What do you think AG does ?

Log on , sees a 40 , 50 ,60 replies to his threads and laughs at how much he is "winding up the aircrew community "

To get wound up is to give him what his own talents could never

" Lose sight , lose fight " ?

Cool wet grass , cool wet grass .

Spend your weekend spending flying pay , with the missus happy in the knowledge that next week brings more time in the air.

[Identified]

Dear Aircrew,

As a REMF myself I’m embarrassed at AG’s attitude. Please don’t think all of us are as narrow minded as him.

Ps
Sorry to the Nim crew who I turned 3 times to cross CAS near Aberdeen this morning. (civvy charter flight wasn’t as fast as I thought)

[Ralf Wiggum]

Gentlemen Please! Lets not get into an almighty slagging match. This bulletin board is not for that. I expected better things from Professional Aircrew, not childish purile tosh that is being posted in response to this awful rubbish from our Blunt friend.

This is not humour or banter, it's just down right pathetic. If you cannot control your thoughts on something so petty, what on earth are you doing in control of advanced weapons systems. May I suggest that this post is closed?

[AHORSE]

message from a horse's wife. I really wish I was married to an Admin Guru - home at 5:30 every evening, weekends free, no uncertainty ..... luxury .... what more can I say?

[ShyTorque]

Admin "Guru",

A few thoughts for you to bear in mind before you mouth off about aviation and admin next time, eh.

A first tourist cannot be a Guru, even in Admin. If you think otherwise then you have belittled your own occupation.

A PPL holder is very much on the bottom rung of aviation. He has bought his right to fly and not earned it like a military pilot must do.

Thanks for reminding me of why I voted with my feet and left the mob while you were probably still in primary school.

To you I bestow the honour of TOFO. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[Hengist Pod]

My head's in my hands. How could so many aircrew get wound up by him? Maybe we're not as bl00dy clever as we like to think. The, "I could do your job but you can't do mine" and "should have worked harder at school," brigades are just c*nts who think the world revolves around them and are as such the (indirect) cause of admin guru's post. If the likes of them didn't strut around treating the rest of the Air Force as underlings and telling them that they should have worked harder at school then the world would be a nicer place. I'm not with you AG, but you are right about one thing. Molly-coddled aircrew whinge like f*ck and it's very depressing considering the perks we enjoy.

[Captain Kirk]

Identified,

Worry not - we know!


Admin 'not yet' Guru,

I am very glad that you raised the IOT Flt Cdr subject. In point of fact, you have very graphically illustrated why there are significant concerns over the standards of IOT graduates.

TR,

Aye!

[Captain Kirk]

Sorry - me again.

Hengist Pod - sorry mate, but I don't see any 'Molly Coddled Aircrew' on my unit. If you are having it easy - enjoy it. Just don't assume that life is a breeze for everyone else out there!

Beam me up.

[Al Titude]

I reckon this Guru chap needs a back seat in something a little more punchy than his mahogany bomber. I reckon a little spell of ACT followed by some OLF might concentrate his mind.

[Ed Winchester]

Hengist Pod,

Sounds like you're the one getting worked up there, sport. Cool wet grass and all that......

Personally, I post on PPruNe for enjoyment and tend not to whinge, 'cos I enjoy my job toooooo much. However, in the past even that fact has incurred the wrath of fellow posters!

Surely Admin Guru (http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/mecry.gif) did not post his thoughts expecting an easy ride. Different people express themselves in different ways, that is the way of the world. Personally I like to use smilies (I've already been typing too long). http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/scared.gif

Ralf Wiggum,

I don't know where you work, but the majority of the professional aircrew I have had the pleasure of working with enjoy a good slanging match as much as the next guy. This is a bulletin board, not real life; read the disclaimers, relax and enjoy.

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/smokin.gif

[OldBonaMate]

Sad or what? You are slipping guys, only 82 posts in the last 48 hours, now 83.

This could go on for a long time and it's still providing a good laugh.

Well done AG!
Not!


:) :) :)

[spencedavies]

Admin Guru,

You haven't 'phoned me yet. I'm disappointed. Give me a call and I'll take you flying. You'll need to spend half a day with the sqn for 1 trip and I'm flying Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday next week. I'll be on that number from 0730 to 1730 on Monday, including lunchtime.

FDJ

[5ftBounce]

Admin Guru.

In response to your slagging of the UAS may I just say that you may have more hours just now but what is civvy flying anyway?

Do your civvy hours help you fly your desk?

[bootscooter]

Actualy, I have some sympathy for Admin Guru's point of veiw! In a similar vein, just te other day I was surfing the net, and came accross a bullitin board for NHS doctors and medical staff. Would you believe that all they had on it were threads about how under-valued they were by their organisation, and how recruiting and retaining quality doctors, nurses, and support staff was suffering what with pay and conditions being so bad! Bearing in mind that I did a 1st aid course a short while ago, I think I'm qualified to comment on such matters.
"The cheeky b@stards" I thought, "everyone knows they get paid shed-loads, and spend most of their time mincing around in their white coats with their stethoscopes around their necks, chatting up nurses!" Incedentally, why cant they give stethoscopes to everyone who woks in a Hospital? A
I got so angry that I felt like posting a reply (even though it had nothing to do with me) telling them what I thought, or adding something really constructive like "if you don't like it, vote with your feet!. But then I thought "no, only a complete t*sser would do some thing like that. :)

[ 19 January 2002: Message edited by: Boot Scooter ]</p>

[CJS]

Dear Admin Guru.

Firstly I can't believe I have even stooped so low as to reply to this complete load of C**p. I'm not sure which Air Force you are in, but it certainly isn't mine.

Where do you get off, claiming that all we do is complain and moan about what is happening in our lives. You are OBVIOUSLY a PPRuNe Virgin. If you were to read a bit more you would find that a lot of people have spent a lot of time passing comments on how they see the Air Force, both now and in the future, and commented on how it can be improved, mostly because they don't want to see the Service that they are proud to serve in go down the pan. It also contains information on events and touching memories of our Breveted Brethren who are no longer with us. (See the tributes to Bullseye/Horse recently, although I'd be surprised if you are even aware of his accident)

Your idea that Non-Aircrew should wear brevets is insulting. I have recently returned from 2 months in Kuwait, flying OP missions over Iraq, followed 3 weeks later, by another 2 months helping fight the war in Afghanistan, neither of which could have been done by anyone who was not Aircrew. When was the last time ANY non-Aircrew person was put in this position. In answer to your comment about us working for 2 hours a day, I spent my time away working 12 On, 12 Off every day for 2 months, with no days off, and have just finished my second week at work doing 12 hours a day, coming in to work at 0630. Oddly enough, no one was in Handbrake House to discuss any issues that we might have had at that time of day. This is not a moan, it is just HOW IT IS. I could go on about how my pay has been screwed around to the tune of £750 by a 'blunty' at Innsworth but I am not going to lower myself to this anymore. If he has a bad day, he just goes home and tells his wife. If I, or one of my fellow aircrew colleauges, has a bad day our wives get a visit from the Station Commander and the Padre.

I feel bad writing to you in this manner, as a lot of my friends work VERY hard to support the Aircrew at my station, but your immature, ill thought out and badly spelt thread has successfully managed to alienate the 2 sides, yet again. Why can't you accept that there are 2 sides to the Air Force, the side that flies and is involved in International Operations, and the side that is employed to support them.

I would love to host you on a visit to my Squadron and let you see that it isn't just a bunch of guys who arrive at work, have a coffee, go flying and then vanish to the pub. It is a highly trained, very professional bunch or men, who work VERY long hours, flying complex aircraft in a high risk environment, who spent large amounts of time away from home and who, quite reasonably, get a bit annoyed when someone criticises them with no knowledge of how they do their job or what it involves. See you at Met Brief at 0630.

I await your reply.

CJS

[ 19 January 2002: Message edited by: CJS ]</p>

[Jump jump John]

The really sad and worrying thing is that this complete waste of my precious oxygen might actually be serious.

As a UAS stude myself, I can happily state that I am in no way a fully-fledged member of the Air Farce and am well aware of the fact that those already in have far more right to whinge than I.
HOWEVER, it is very encouraging to see that clearly they are letting all sorts through Cranwell nowadays, and my 'lack of polish' is as nothing compared to some people.

Try learning to fly out of a base with every type currently in service in the circuit with you at the same time, and dealing with imbecilic doddering civil pilots as well before you spout such drivel about the standard of UAS flying.
We may be part-timers and on the VR list, but i can happily assure you that my approach to my soon-to-be-job (and that of my squadron mates) is a lot more professional than yours appears to be.
if you ever visited a UAS, you might actually realise that many of us fly Monday to Friday, not at weekend at all, and juggle a degree at the same time.

You are clearly the sort of clown who enjoys getting people's backs up - thank God most of the uspport staff in the RAF are absolutely nothing like you. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

Leave us alone you ignorant peasant.
ENDS.

(Sorry, rant over guys!)

[Gainesy]

On reflection, I think this Admin Gnu is the biggest wind up since Big Ben was commissioned. S/He is indeed therefore, a Master Baiter.
So who is it? TM? Nil Nos? BEags? Jacko? Probably not. Answers on a postcard to.....

[Tonkenna]

This is great, you can't beet a bit of Blunty Bashing at the weekend, after a days work. Oh yeah, Blunty mate, some of us work weekends.

This is either the best windup for a while (though I hope the feds don't turn up at my door like they did when Mr Brittney Spears posted a while back) or our Admin Guru (!!!???) just has no idea about the real world.

Mr Guru I would love to take you flying in my little plastic wonder, and we could see how good your PPL flying really is compared to some of our students. Come out and play some time <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Tonks <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[BEagle]

....or you could come and fly one of my little metal aeroplanes which are allowed into cloud (sorry, Tonks!) on your PPL. If you passed the Club check, of course.... Not for free though, sorry, - and you'd be amazed how well we do without any admin wallahs and their pettyfogging bureacracy getting in the way of running our small company! E.g. - an instructor puts in his/her claim, I trust him/her to be honest and I sign the cheque there and then. It's so easy - try it!!

[Sven Sixtoo]

Admin Guru

Sorry sorry missed you at Happy Hour.

had to go on standby with some nice boys.

As one Fri in 2 for about 12 yrs.

Your skills as a wind-up merchant are actually quite impressive.

Now please don't wind the men up any more, it does bad things to their blood pressure, or at least just stay away from the flyers - oops forgot you are one - may I worship at your feet? Just a teensy thought - can you leave your attitude on the ground? then it will only annoy people, not kill people.

lots of love

sven

Kissy kissy

[Skylark4]

One or two of you are using a rather wide tarry brush when referring to those of us who only have PPLs. Please remember that, for most of us who only have a PPL:-
1. It`s all we need.
2. We paid for it ourselves.
3. It`s our hobby, not our job.
4. With the training you had, at our expense, you damn well better be better at it than we are.
5. Before you come back at me with some remark you think is clever, think about Truck/Bus drivers and how unhappy you would be if they were as condecending of your driving abilities.

Mike W.

P.S. Your Flying pay, or not flying, but I could if they asked me to, Pay, is probably more than I get for fixing your Aeroplanes, refuelling them, strapping them to your arses and standing there in the cold and wet whilst yo.........

[Sven Sixtoo]

Skylark

happy to have you sharing the sky mate.

Most of us started in the same place.
And I can't fix my own aircraft.

But our blunt friend seems to think that his recreational qualification allows him to judge my professional skills. This leaves me worrying about what else he thinks himself professionally competent to do outside his own professional skills.

[Ex F111]

No Comment

[G.Khan]

Methinks AG didn't make it to University, didn't get through aircrew selection, ( or did and then washed out), and instead of turning his back on the RAF and taking his talents elsewhere he joined anyway - but now finds it hard to swallow the bitter pill of failure.

The brevet denotes someone who has passed a course and gained a qualification that involves being in an aircraft. Quite wrong for non-flyers to wear a brevet, just as wrong as the odd few who get 'honorary' wings when posted to a senior staff appointment within Army Aviation.

[FE Hoppy]

one of the best fishing trips I've seen in my many years of ppruneing.

well done admin boohoo.

you little tit.

[Firkin L]

Having been a support person for some 20 years in a military and civil enviroment I think that AG is speaking just for himself and doesn't represent anymore than a small ignorant minority. His comment about having a PPL so therefore understands your job is also bizarre. What does surprise me a little is the attack on civil flying/pilots by some of your UAS people with comments such as 'what is civil flying anyway' and 'imbecilic doddering civil pilots'. We all know you guys get the best training and best instruction ( I know, I pay for it!) but that doesn't give you the right to think that everyone else is crap. Perhaps JJJ and Bounce would like to come along with one of your Grobs to an aerobatic contest and we will see whose inverted spins, negative flicks and rolling circles are best! The first lesson in flying should be humility.

[BEagle]

Having been both a student and a QFI at a UAS and later a civil PPL examiner, my comparison between UAS flying and PPL flying is that the UAS wins on taking aeroplanes (well, before Das Teutor) to their limits, has the attraction of endless aeros, formation flying and a bit of low level (again, before the wretched Teutor), and generally requires a higher standard of airmanship and checklist knowledge.

BUT, and it is a big BUT, the average standard of theoretical knowledge of UK airspace, technical subjects, etc, etc taught at a UAS is pretty low. The biggest weakness shown by ex-UAS students is navigation. Most of them are lucky to be able to find their own backsides without a mirror; they have probably only flown a very limited number of easy navigation exercises which someone else chose for them in any case, have no idea about use of RT when communicating with anyone other than military radar units. The navigation 'instruction' seems to be based on the premise that the absolute minimum amount of medium level navigation is taught before they can start low level flying; at CFS the standard of navigation instruction when I went through was dismal - the only subject for which there was no 4-colour board brief and which most QFIs at my UAS couldn't be arsed to teach in any case (many actively avoided it!) Have things improved nowadays?

In summary, UAS flying teaches pilots sound airmanship and how to operate their aeroplanes towards their limits; PPL flying teaches people who just want to fly for fun and to take their friends from A to B how to do so in safety but it also gives them a far better level of theoretical knowledge than the UAS Janet-and-John books provided to their pilots when I was QFI-ing at a UAS. (I'd been far better taught when I was a UAS student on Chipmunks - we used to get proper groundschool instruction from our QFIs on training nights and had to write essay type answers for the Central Examining Board PFB exams.......but that was before multi-guess 'crit point' books came in, of course.)

Probably a bit controversial - but the weakest point noted at BAeS Prestwick during the trial ME training to RAF students (ex-BFS, not just UAS!!) some years ago was their low and inadequate level of theoretical knowledge, particularly about the UK airspace in which they'd been flying for many years....

Sorry for droning on a bit and going off-topic; Admin Guru may have made some very stupid remarks about some things, but the derogatory comments about PPL flyers made by some ignorant UAS students needed balancing!

[ 20 January 2002: Message edited by: BEagle ]</p>

[Jump jump John]

BEagle:
Hmmm, where to start? I don't think any of the staff on my UAS would be too happy with your description of our flying (and their instructional) talents. While hopefully no UAS chaps claim to know anything like everthing about flying in general, its a bit of a sweeping statement about the UAS system to claim that we couldn't nav our way through and open door.
Many of the instructors make a point of you planning your own navs, with only LL entry points and targets given to you, and at PNT level not even that.

Now whilst i'm not saying we are all great at nav (in fact, not even that i'm great at nav!), it doesn't mean that everyone in the UAS system is appalling either. I can't fly formation for toffee, but i know some guys who are better than the QFIs - everyone's good at something.

With regard to my remarks about PPL holders in my previous post, i didn't mean to tar all with the same brush and i apologise for sounding so derogatory. However, i guess Admin Gimps 'comments' just riled me a touch. I will hopefully be starting a PPL course in the summer, using the crossover for hours they are doing. As only 2 exams (and the FHT-equivalent) are needed to switch from UAS to civvie flying (i believe), then maybe the knowledge gap between the two isn't as wide as many would think.
I know that many serving guys in the RAF deride UAS studes as 'unproffessional student layabouts', but not all of us think we know it all, its just a few bad apples spoiling it for everyone.

Now, back to that Admin Gimp...

[MajorMadMax]

Admin Guru

Just come on over to the USAF, about ten years ago we figured out we could "improve" morale by giving everyone an occupational badge. Not wings, mind you, but a badge indicating the career field a person was in. (We later tried the same thing with leather jackets for aircrew, anyone want to comment on if it worked or not??)

The admin (oops, "Information Management" to use the politically correct term) badge is a nice scroll with a feather pen on top of a globe surrounded by a wreath. Just go to <a href="http://www.af.mil/photos/art_badges03.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.af.mil/photos/art_badges03.shtml</a> and look at the top center. Lovely, isn't it? If you want I'll send you one. And it sits right next to the Intelligence badge, which we all argued should be a DMPI (a red triangle with a dot in the middle, indicates the Desired Mean Point of Impact, or the best place to drop the bombs, on a target graphic) as by wearing it we are a walking target.

Yep, I'm intel <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> , probably loathed as much as admin (and I've done that job too <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> , so I can expect full laughter from this list, but to be honest I really didn't like it). Before I became an officer I worked in aircraft maintenance. So I've worked in quite a lot of career fields, and guess what I've learned, EVERYBODY complains! I have yet to find an apathetic soul in the bunch. But as a person who has had a nice, cushy office job, let me tell you, a lot of admin folks don't realize there is a big difference in the level of importance of getting a form filled out correctly (using regulation-approved punctuation, of course) and moving an aircraft (possibly with cargo and passengers) from one place to another. I've yet to see an incorrect form kill anyone, mistakes in the admin field are rarely fatal (just annoying). All jobs can be tough, it is just the consequences of some may be significantly higher than others. One of the most dullest jobs around that I can figure, being a missile launch officer, can be catastrophic if you screw up!

Probably the best advice given to you during this thread was to go out and make friends with some of the aircrew. I've done so throughout my career and it has made a big difference. Yes, some were complete idiots, but most were friendly chaps and a lot of fun. If you ever get a chance to deploy with a flying squadron (or even just go to Nellis AFB for RED FLAG), do it, as you’ll have the time of your life. You’ll never work as hard or play as hard as you will then. Plus you’ll have great stories you can tell (and some you can’t!) for the rest of your life. The flying side of the house is not the enemy, and you don’t have to wear a bag (flight suit) to be a part of the fun, but I can tell you the standards area high and they expect the same hard work and dedication out of you as they expect out of themselves.

I give you credit for fueling such a great thread, I got a good chuckle out of a lot of the responses, and wonder how all these eternally busy folks find time to post them (I for one find time to check out PPRuNe at work, and I am sure some others out there do the same). I strongly suspect you are an ingenious aircrew having a go at the list, things were getting a bit boring and you've definitely brought it back to life. And if you are really an admin troopie, credit for poking everyone with a stick. We all need some prodding once and a while.

Just my two euros...

Cheers!

[ 20 January 2002: Message edited by: MajorMadMax ]

[ 20 January 2002: Message edited by: MajorMadMax ]</p>

[Spacer]

Hey Tonks. Sorry about taking so long to reply. I've been taking a break as I've had a ton of work to do for the exams. And I believe Flipper is still on his "break" from Pprune <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Admin Guru:- I am indeed a UAS stude, and I make no shame in expressing this fact. I never have, and never will pretend to be anything other than this, and I am proud of it too. I worked hard to be here, and I continue to work hard to ensure I stay here (both at uni and on the UAS).

I will also pi$$ on your bonfire of your civvy hours. I have some civvy hours (and your will almost certainly have more hours than me, but hey, we didn't all start life with 1000 hours), but as I myself found, this counts for nothing in the military world. To say military flying is a more exacting skill is only the beginning...
I would also like to ask why you have such a negative attitude towards aircrew? I have met some idiots in my limited time, but you just get on with it. Its like every occupation in life. There seem to be twats in them all. I hear Admin has a few...

&lt;Edited for poor spelling!&gt;

[ 20 January 2002: Message edited by: Spacer ]</p>

[Chinese Vic]

Well, quite frankly I am disgusted by AG's comments. I'm not aircrew but as you will see from my profile I am one of those who directly support flying ops (400 days away in 30 months and still going...) and cannot believe anyone in today's RAF (even in Admin) can be so blinkered in their viewpoint. To the aviators, please don't let one idiot's views colour your persective of the rest of us who remain ground-bound!

Cheers

CV

[Capt Widebody]

What a laugh!

Admin Guru... if all of this was actually your aim all along, then to you I tip my hat.

Sadly, I fear that your post was in earnest, and heartfelt rather than a sly cast with an expertly chosen fly. For me, the giveaway was in your unsubtle backpedalling from good old fashioned slanging and slagging to the childrens school of mass debate and parliamentary logic.

That said, it did pull even the most cautious stallwarts into the melee. Interesting reading though the debate is, I won't get too involved. Probably another 45 hours plus flying and 70 hours plus at work to do next week from my noisy base at dusty tent city. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

But just for the record, I stand by my earlier assessment, irrespective. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[SAGA LOUT]

Admin Guru, I think you have a mental problem 'f@@k off you prat!'

[Big Green Arrow]

This is making me laugh...alot..so much so I can hardly type for giggling...the fisherman has caught the behemoth of all splendid catches with this one...well done whoever you are!

Scarlet Pimps...you should not be here...get changing those nappies you slacker!

FDJ. Dep OC D of where..not IOT I take it?

Shalom u.s.W

BGA <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> :)

[ 20 January 2002: Message edited by: Big Green Arrow ]</p>

[Swing Wing]

This gets better and better....

I hav'nt seen a funnier thread in a while.

Reminds me of a similar argument at Chiv a few years back. OC Admin wanted flying pay equivalent - OC OPs agreed, as long as, each year, all admin staff were lined up at SHQ and one of them was shot.

Harsh but fair, doncha think.... <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[KD]

108 Replies !!!

GET A GRIP PEOPLE !!!

[Tamaze Man]

Chinese Vic,. .good to see some constructive comments. Are you the same Chinese Vic who made me supper in Gioia? If so, the lanky boozer says hello.

"We might go up-diddly-up, but we're still gits!"

[ 21 January 2002: Message edited by: Tamaze Man ]</p>

[spencedavies]

Friends and QFIs,

I'm sorry to report that AG didn't 'phone me today, but the offer still stands.

Can the nice chap who 'phoned long distace for a chat please post a message here so that I know it wasn't AG in disguise. I wouldn't unmask anyone, I'm just curious.

If it was AG 'phoning, you sounded like a decent chap and since where you are is a large place, I guess we'll never know who you are. Besides, I agree that it's all been very entertaining.

FDJ

[Big Green Arrow]

Fanta..twas me..not Admin Pleb...you sounded shocked that someone would ring you...I was shocked you answered!

Pimps...good to see you haven't posted yet..the 'bundle of joy' must be keeping you busy..keep it up!

BGA

[KD]

BGA , you ringin IOT ????!!!????

Did ya manage to wangle yerself a flight !!

[BEagle]

Well bug ger me with a fish fork, my blunt admin guru, but your supply chums have extracted the digit! Barely had I asked you to find out why my new SD hat still hadn't arrived at stores after nearly 3 months than the thing turned up today! Thank you indeed - it was down to you, mate, wasn't it.....??

V cheap too!!

[ShyTorque]

Chaps,

Admin Guru seems to have gone awol. Perhaps he has fallen into his empty in-tray.

[The Mistress]

Gainesy

Not guilty.

I say again for the benefit of hard of hearing people with ecclesiastical names. NOT GUILTY <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Keep scooping the poop Mike <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Love. .TM

[sf mov]

"When was the last time any non-aircrew person was put in that position".. .very embarassing statement CJS, myself and multitudes of others unfortunately have "been put in that position", or did I spend 25 years in a different air force to you ?.. .on average I spent 5/6 months trailing aound the world in the back of an albert going to far flung places for 6-9 weeks at a time, for a holiday by the pool ? I THINK NOT !!

[Dan Winterland]

Wind up or not, I'd like to thank everyone who has posted on this thread. Not that I need many reminders why I left.....

[KD]

BGA

Tried e mailing you but pprune won`t let me . How do I go about it ?

KD

[propsr4boats]

Listen you lot, you r all destined for the bottom of the seniority list once you r on civy street.

On second thoughts don't bother leaving everyone hates you anyway. Just ask your colleagues that left recently..... and r now trying to rejoin that warm comfy place called the MILLITARY

[Sangiovese]

One senses that propsr4boats is another bitter and twisted little oik. Ho hum, can't even be bothered to rise to the bait (except upon the atrocious spelling - hope he can program the FMS better).

[Bervie]

I am now strongly debating whether Propsr4boats is a complete w@nker that is just REALLY jealous of those lucky enough to fly military? or, has he just stumbled on here and spouted complete drivel.. .Can anyone help?. .Sangiovese - He probably doesnt have the seniority or knowledge to program the FMS on his own!

Hope to hear your pearls of wisdom next time I (begrudgingly) fly civvy Propsr4boats! I will try not to p1ss myself laughing at your humour. Or will you just be offering me another drink from your trolley.

Awaits a response!

[Al Titude]

Great!. .Propsr4boats must be one of those civvy pilots who must be a real treat to fly with, especially if you're ex mil. He's probably done a great deal to help with x-overs for the mil guys and no doubt always makes them welcome in his amazing company. . .Wouldn't be surprised if this 'attitude' that some claim mil pilots posses with regard to civvy flying may come from the mouths of a tool like this!

[goldcup]

Still, he is very literate isn't he. Probably has difficulty spelling FMS, let alone programming one.

i luV bing in teh millitary tho.

Cnut.

[6nandneutral]

I disagree that Mr Paperclip Counter has been to IOT, I'm guessing that he is an LAC or SAC at the most, due to his lack of basic service knowledge. I'm assuing, that he is in the RAF as he mentions 1771,s, but where do families get Dental Treatment?.

Paperclip Guru, get a life, and at the same time get your facts straight, and may the family of hedgehogs be followed by a rearwards facing porcupine.

[Alf Aworna]

Pratinaboat or whatever your name is, I'll have my Big Mac and fries when you're ready. Off you go now before the manager catches you, there's a good chap. Anyone else hungry?

[15/15 flex]

Admin Guru..

I'm a little late to this one....courtesy of some ad hoc skiing up the road, so apologies if anyone has already pointed out that:

1. The RCAF no longer exists, nor has it done for about the last 30 years or so.

2. Not everyone in the CF (to give it the proper terminology) wears a trade badge - but you're right, many do.

3. Many pilots are pi$$ed off that "other aircrew" wear the full wing.

4. CF pilots get paid a different (higher) BASIC pay than the blunties, sorry, general list officers. This, of course, is pensionable.

5. The CF issue a rather natty set of metal wings, similar to those worn by the USAF, for aircrew to wear on their shirts, when blues is the order of the day. "Other" trades don't have these, just the cloth ones for wearing on one's general purpose jacket, and S3 (that's No1 to you) dress.

Right, now back to the next nine pages before I toddle off to Miami at the weekend.....

<img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[ 23 January 2002: Message edited by: 15/15 flex ]

[ 23 January 2002: Message edited by: 15/15 flex ]</p>

[Dunhovrin]

Blimey,

One blunty re-iritates an old chestnut and you lot spend 9 pages telling him to wind his neck in. You lot obviously aren't working hard enough nowadays. Of course in my day things were a lot harder, you youngsters don't know that you're born...oh bollocks I'm too tired to wind anyone up but here's a genuine tale for comment....

I was sitting chatting to a civvie self-improver about work and conditions in our airline and the conversation went:

Me:"To be honest as ex-RAF I can't complain about any of our hotels we [airline blokes] stay in. They're all a lot better than a tent next to an active runway". .Him:"Aye well [for he was Scottish but miserable enough to have been Welsh], you don't go to admire council buildings do you?". ."Eh?". ."I mean the taxpayer has to fund the RAF and let's face it airline pilots are in the job of saving lives, whereas the military is about taking lives. So decent crew rest isn't as important". .[Now at this point I started to stutter thinking I must be hallucinating].. ."Errr, so you think it's OK to send, say, 12 Tornadoes to Bosnia and plan on losing 3 on the way because the crews slept on the floor of the hangar". ."Well that's what losses are budgeted for isn't it?". .Me:"Oh here's my stop - I'll get me coat"

I realise this has nothing to do with blunties and their perennial jealousy regarding the superiority of pilots and thingies (umm navigators) but I thought I should share this little gem. What would you have said, (not done- as violence is the last resort of the incompetant)?

[Sven Sixtoo]

Dunhovrin

I'm <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> Are you in any position to provide some insight into your colleague's mental processes? Where do the council houses (or was that cooncil hooses) come into it? And which lives would he be after saving in your 747 or whatever? And does he have these sort of ideas in flight, or just on the ground? <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> :)

[Megaton]

It's obviously got nothing to do with being a Blunty or a self-improver or, for that matter, aircrew. An arse is an arse no matter what he smells like.

[PlasticCabDriver]

Unfortunately, Admin Guano is only one of a growing number of people, of all trades, even aircrew, who are losing sight of what this business is all about. The business of the RAF is the mission. Thats it. Whether it is dropping a bomb, delivering troops, refuelling jets or whatever. The final delivery of whatever it is, by aircraft. Every action or decision, however trivial, that every person in the RAF makes, of whatever rank, should be made with the thought 'Does this help towards achieving the mission?' somewhere in the back of their minds. Every person, section and flight will have its own missions, but achieving those missions must still be geared to achieving bigger missions, and so on and so on until we come to the top, the big one, the actual dropping of the bombs (or whatever).

The mission has to be right at the top of the tree. It supports nothing else, it is the whole point of the organisation. Right underneath that, is the aircraft itself. Without that, there really will be no mission. Everything else goes to support that, that is what everything else is there for. However, when that aircraft goes on its mission, there are aircrew in it, and that makes us part of the aircraft.

That puts us above you, Guano, in the tree.. .That is the way it is. It is not that we are better people than the rest of you, or superior to you, or morally more pure, or just better looking (though that's usually true!), its just that's where our job puts us in the big organisational tree. We have our fair share of w*nkers too, I cannot deny, but what we expect of you, is your support, your unswerving support, every day, for us as we go about our business of achieving the mission. We appreciate your support. We are not so blinkered that we cannot see that the mission will fail without your support. It just that you support us, and not the other way round, and the sooner that you and your like minded kin appreciate that, the sooner we will get some way back to being the sort of organisation that we were once proud of.

(I know that there are trades and jobs out there who do not fall strictly into the above, but they are a tiny minority, so my points are valid for the vast majority of the RAF, particularly 1st tourist Admin Officers)

Fvck me readers, that was a bit serious!

Nob, Poo, Bum! That's better!

PS. Dunhovrin'. Long time no see, are you going to come and visit us ever again?

[PowerRanger]

Hey guys. It is clear that Admin Grunt is a serial loser.

Rarely has so large an inferiority complex manifested itself in this place.

Go back to straightening chairs you rubber desk johnny and leave the real men to get on with their real jobs undistracted by sour grapes losers like you.

BLUNT TO$$ER! <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[Min Decent Ht]

Will the real "Admin Guru" please stand up. Or perhaps reveal more about yourself.

<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Great wind-up, you must have great tackle. Love it. :)

[Doctor Cruces]

Admin Guru,

As you are a first tourist may I humbly request that you Shut the F**k up until you have enough time in to understand what actually goes on in your chosen Service? Especially at the sharp end. Never forget that the SOLE function of any flying station is to SUPPORT the FLYING role of that station.

I am not aircrew myself, but all my years in the RAF I worked very closely with them and have to say that every one of them has good reason to be proud of what they have achieved and are achieving on a daily basis.

Of course they bleat and whine about how bad their lot is, but doesn't everyone? Someone (and I can't for the life of me remember who) once said that a soldier who was not moaning was a cause for worry. Of course they usually get more on highest rate flying pay than many airmen get for a months salary, but how many "blunties" go out to work and may not come back again that evening due to a technical malfunction of their photocopier or a moment of inattention processing someones leave pass?

When I joined I also thought, "Gawd, what a life, easy or what?" Then I grew up. Sometimes I saw the guys coming back after a hard ACM sortie (you DO know what that is, don't you?) drenched in sweat and looking like they'd spent that afternoon shovelling coal and then dropping absolutely drained into their comfy chair in the crewroom (with their telegraph and cuppa?). How often does your grappling with a particularly difficult F1771 leave you like that?

You make my blood boil and I've been out of the RAF for five years. With blokes like you in handbrake house, no wonder the service can be the rest of us receive is bl**dy awful on some stations.

There is so much I want to say to you, none of it complementary that I am going to stop now lest I go too far.

Aircrew, keep it up. I was proud to work with you regardless of what this bluntie tw*t says.

Doc C.

[ 24 January 2002: Message edited by: Doctor Cruces ]</p>

[devilsadvocate666]

Dear Wg Cdr Guru, oh sorry it's APO isn't it, or should that be SAC? I think you have a very valid point. It would be a real shame to let such a funny thread fizzle out so why don't you post another gem of admin wisdom.

Here's one for starters - all aircrew are neo-chauvinist macho glory seeking repressed homosexuals, and flying sqn should be replaced with therapy groups.

Light blue touch paper and retire. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[AHORSE]

Careful, <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> he's already made another ill-informed comment on the aircrew retention thread. I'm glad he's not working at the same place as me. Our handbrake house is full of civvies who are mostly onside and actually work in our favour.. .They may be not be in a blue suit but they have been there long enough to know how it really is.

[jockspice]

Can't this thread die? 10 pages of whinging about being called whingers? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

I know crab baiting can be a job and not just a hobby, but admin guru has excelled beyond the bounds of all expectation. <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

What's next? A thread about crab aircrew turning up in flying overalls for every occasion? Dont think the server is big enough to cope with that one. :)

[Madness]

Admin Guru

We all winge about pay and conditions but we have to earn our money the hard way some of the time. Last year I was on bottom rate flying pay, about 10 quid a day, during the year I spent 5 months away on ops, but far worse I was on standby in a Puma waiting to go to a crash site to pick up 2 dead friends; I carried the coffin of one of these friends at the repatriation ceremony, I went to the memorial service of the other one; later in the year I went to the funeral of another friend killed whilst flying and finally found out that another guy I worked with on Ops was killed in a helicopter crash. I know that flying pay is not officially danger money but that was hard earned flying pay, what ****ing danger have you ever faced?

RIP Andy, Magoo, Jas and Simon

[KD]

Madness

My sympathy to you and what you`ve been through. Everyone`s thoughts on this website go out to you and the families of those involved.

While AG has come across as a complete tw@t I don`t think he ( or anyone else ) would ever dismiss the ACTUAL job we do. He never denied the right to flying pay and his views while immature have never ventured into being sick and twisted.

There`s a difference between banter and being an ar$e to crossing the line and attacking those who lose their lives doing the job that at the end of the day everyone is in debt to them for.

In fairness I think AG has not crossed that line and you`ve taken some anger out on him over something that he would undoubtedly have sympathy with you over.

[Judge Rembrandt]

Admin Gnu,. .I see on another thread that you would like to be a Navigator. Why would you want to leave the highly demanding job - scribbly - which is "as important,if not more so" than aircrew? Surely you do not want to sit around the crewroom reading your Telegraph with a bunch of whinging, brevet-wearing elitists? No! Do not do it! Your Branch need you, now more than ever!. .Keep them coming, they are getting funnier every time. Some points for you to ponder:

Like it or not:. .if you look at your own mind. .you will discover it is void and groundless,. .insubstantial as empty space.. . Padmasambhava. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[Admin Guru]

Rembrandt - thanks for your comments. I would appreciate your thoughts on the need for F3s in the Falkands. As a Nav I wouldn't expect to sit around - I hear they pretty much run the sorties and are in charge of tactics etc?? . .Hopefully this thread will die now that aircrew have got their FRI.

Look forward to shooting the proverbial with you in a crewroom soon. (Same for you Sven)

[cheapseat]

Admin Rugu

Are you actually in the Royal Air Force? I think you'll find that about 80% of RAF aircrew have been awarded the FRI.

The intelligent management of SNCO Aircrew by our commissioned leaders shows that there will always be a place for you in this mob.

[shipwreck]

For all the adminers, PTOs, GST staff and suppliers who moan about flying pay. Fine. You can have your flying pay if, once a year we take ten of you outside and shoot you. Money well earned for the odds? Stop dripping and get some f@@@ing time in!

[devilsadvocate666]

why dont bluties lay off the aircrew. we may fly just one hour a day but we can get chopped from that hour! you should thibk about us brfore you thinbk about yourself.

[DeeTee]

I used to be a Bluntie but I got better. it just takes time. Sort of a care in the community project if you will.

I did get the opportunity to be the Flg Trg Wg Adjt at Valley when it was a bluntie post. Had a fantastic time with the chaps. wasn't allowed to do ACT, but did get to go on the SAP's upto SAP5. Great laugh. Belated thanks to Gary Thomas (Now Cathay I think) and 'Stumpie'Stoner (still tearing around in Hunters in his retirement lucky sod) and all the rest of you who put up with me asking stupid questions down the back. To Sqn Ldr Little...yep I did finally get the hang of a spin recovery in a Hawk. All in all over 50 hrs back seat in Hawks. A tremendous thrill and absolute pleasure...well I was sick a couple of times and that was not nice.

Anyway, took a leaf from GT and left to the civvy world. Now fly commercial jets...its not military but it is flying.

Actually a lot of ex mil mates with us. All very good, but no surprises there...even the army rotary boys seem to know what they are doing.

And just so I don't get accused of spoiling a good thred....

bollox, Ar*e, Wa*k.

I thank you. . <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[MajorMadMax]

...149... <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[MajorMadMax]

...150! <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> Could it be a PRuNe record?!? Possibly...for the biggest leg pulling in history.

OK, Admin Guru, you've hit the mark, now tell us who you really are, you bast*rd!

I still think you are some bored jet jockey getting a mighty big laugh out of all the replies!

Cheers!

[ 02 February 2002: Message edited by: MajorMadMax ]</p>

[ORAC]

Ed Winchester posted this in Jet Blast. To is so apposite I just had to post the link. It is a letter from Wellington .

<a href="http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=006005&p=2" target="_blank">http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=4&t=006005&p=2</a>

[ 02 February 2002: Message edited by: ORAC ]</p>

[whowhenwhy]

Jay Foe and I think we have found AG! And if it's not him, there's another whingy, first-tourist adminer who sounds a lot like him! Maybe they were indoctrinated on their blunty course by some chopped aircrew turned blunty with a grudge? Whatever, if it is him, he's a lot further south than has been previously pondered, and resides at the home of the most fantastic fighter-bomber the world has ever seen. (Although I have heard elastic band supplies are of a lower quality than usual, something to do with a blunty again no doubt, so we may start having more problems than usual generating enough power for take-off!) :) :) :)

Things are always worse than they seem!

[Capt Widebody]

Throw him into the river and see if he floats. If you have a large set of weighing scales, see if he is heavier than a duck.

Or some little rocks.

Go on, it's the only way we'll know.

:) :) "Stone him!!" :) :)

[solotk]

From an Army point of view........

I have the strangest feeling, that AG is actually a bored FJ, and what's more, quite a senior one too. I mean, no one, could actually post deliberately, in such an obvious, self-opiniated first tourist fashion,and be serious could they?

I think you guys need to be watching your oppos a bit more closely <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Just my 30 rounds worth

Tony

[Admin Guru]

I see that my intial post generated quite a lot of interest from aircrew. From the slatings I got on Friday I have been cooling off because I felt very unjustifiably attacked. Pointing out a gross spelling error of Jacko's (a journalist) somehow got turned around to an error on my part. Grow up to those involved.. .Just thought it would be interesting to point out that of 150 odd replies, very few state more that 'you are a tw@t'. Hmmm.

Not exactly the reaction I was hoping for but basically the reaction I was expecting hence the intial post.

To all aircrew: STOP WHINGING. You have a good lot in life, especially after FRI.

[OldBonaMate]

And still he continues to turn the wind-up key!. . <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

[Admin Guru]

OBM

Your last two posts have said the same thing (for those interested also see Falklands forum) which I find AMAZINGLY dull. Not only are you out of the loop judging by your name and location , but if you don't have anything constructive to write, kindly stay off an otherwise interesting forum.

[Dr Schlong]

AG - Yawn <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

This is getting ever so dull now, please give it a rest - I believe a lorry load of paperclips have just arrived! :)

Don't bite - can this thread now die a dignified death now, please?

[amyoungz]

Plus ça change...plus c'est la même chose. Left the RAF four-and-a-half years ago and the same old chestnuts are still roasting! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[YumYum]

The answer is quite simple. Pay everyone - yes, even duvet accountants, fg pay. But the pay back is that, once a year, 3 or 4 names can be pulled out of a hat, said people to be shot. Points, questions? <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[Snow Dog]

Admin Runt

Are you the same professional from the great band of busy adminners who are unable to set up the new OJAR report, who can't plan and buy enough underwear, flying suits or MDC for the service, who start work after we're airborne and take lunch when we land.

Or are you the type who shatters the promise of non-remuneration retention initiatives (which affect everyone) by discovering and implementing rules regarding the use of mess bills. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">

[Uncle Ginsters]

Well, AG, what have you done???. .I quote "Just thought it would be interesting to point out that of 150 odd replies, very few state more that 'you are a tw@t'. Hmmm."

Hmmmmm.....and you still haven't got the message?

Stick to being blunt, mate!

Just thought i'd recall a bluntie story from a certain secret base in Oxfordshire - OCGD, when asked why aircrew seemed to be doing 99% of the weekend SDOs, replied - " Because they work weekends anyway!"

I'm not bitter, you've got to pity anyone that blunt really!!

[Capt Widebody]

:) :) :) :) :)

Brilliant!!!!

Back to the top. Someone please out this genius!

PS: Anyone seen the film "Heaven Can Wait"??? Maybe....just maybe... <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[Mr C Hinecap]

OY! Cow Man! Chill! Us Duvet Technicians were staying out of this "I'm not biting BUT..." fest and watching the eternal battle between Handbrake House (if that is where AG lives) and the 2-winged master race. This is a modern day epic thread & I congratulate AG on eliciting the response he has. PLEASE remember there are knackers in every branch/trade and some of us actually enjoy playing our part without punching holes in sky etc. You may look down on me, but don't expect to see me looking up at you. . .Love, peace & understanding. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[Jackonicko]

Admin Guru,

My supposed "gross spelling error" (which was so unfairly turned around to be an error on your part) occurred on your Falklands Farce strand, dimwit, not this one.

And the 'error' was that I used the word apposite - it may have been an error to use a word of more than one syllable, since you clearly weren't familiar with it.

But when I referred to the phrase ‘w@nker on your wing’ being apposite, I meant apposite. Not opposite.

Apposite, as in ‘apt, well suited for the purpose, appropriate’. I suggest that you look it up in a dictionary if you need further clarification. And in future please check before correcting my spelling.

I'm still puzzled how someone with your vocabulary, spelling and grammar could have passed through IOT, let alone gained a geography degree.

And just for the stats, my considered contribution is that:

You are a complete tw@t.

[Croqueteer]

The difference between a pilot and a jet engine? At the end of a flight the jet engine stops whining.

[Rude C'man]

Without a shadow of doubt this thread has made my day ! After three weeks at sea I finally got onto dry land to sit around waiting for airtests, the last hour has flown by , some of the replies had me in tears some well, I nearly wet myself. Can't chat any more off to have a great time with some hosties. TTFN see you all end of march .... dream on <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[Simon R]

I'm a fishead working on an RAF base. When I joined the RN I took my fair share of banter about being a WAFU- from ignorant pussers who had no comprehention of air-power. It never ceases to amaze me the you could join the Royal AIR FORCE ( note AIR FORCE)and winge about aircrew!You do yourself, nor your service, any justice. Grow up!

[better livin]

Don't know quite how you've managed it Si, but you've slated the idea of whinging, by whinging about an RAF bluntie whinging about whinging aircrew. Good work Fishhead!!

How's the hallowed Isle?. .MS

[Admin Guru]

After a great weekend, I feel compelled to write and keep this forum ongoing because of the bleatings of a naval fishhead STILL in the training system by the looks of it. Are you on SARTU by any chance? You dont sound punchy enough to be a fast jet trainee.

Jacko - Thanks for YET again pointing out my error that you so clearly and eloquently repeated on my other forum.

Superstacker - thanks for the obvious support.

Just a final point. Why do the pilots on my station never fly on a friday afternoon? I find it hard to believe they are too busy because they are always in happy hour waiting for the bar to open!

[Hertz Van Rental]

God there's more of them. Just goes to show, if you feed Trolls they breed.

[Jackonicko]

AG, mate.

Sorry about the 'opposite' correction, but you asked for it.

Puzzled though, "not punchy enough to be FJ?", but presumably punchy enough to have been selected for other than Admin Sec?

[ 11 February 2002: Message edited by: Jackonicko ]</p>

[Simon R]

Dear AG,. . Sorry to dispell your perception that FJ trainees sound punchy all the time.. . I don't want to get into a slanging match about who has the hardest job. I was disappointed that you slag me off for STILL being in training. Is it because my training takes 4 and a half years?. . By the way, most of that has been spent working bl***y hard, not reading the Telegraph.. .Sorry to dissapoint. Let this be the end of it!

[ 11 February 2002: Message edited by: Si ]

[ 11 February 2002: Message edited by: Si ]</p>

[Barn Doors]

Si, don't bother with AG!

He/she really isn't worth the fuss, and 180-odd people cannot be wrong in thinking this. I, like both you and my colleagues, put up with this crap nearly every week. However, most of the guys/girls who give the 'banter' can also take it.... light-heartedly too.

AG, this is my 'aircrew' outlook....

I do my job as well as I am capable of (look up . .Professionalism) and I'll continue to do so, regardless of childish taunts from the likes of you. No-one gives a **** whether you have a 2-1, 2-2, or no degree. In the Air Force, your credibility and competence counts. Your arguments so far show signs of neither, I would suggest. If you wanted to be aircrew (or still want to!) but for some fair reason couldn't, shut up and put up or leave! Simple! <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[spectre150]

There are a number of reasons why there is no flying on Friday afternoons. I can't speak for AG's unit because I do not know where he is stationed but from my experience Friday afternoons are usually spent doing ground training (lectures and the like - necessary but tedious, we would rather have been flying) and it gave the groundcrew the chance to fix all the jets that we had broken during the week to get a reasonable number on first line for Monday morning.

Unemotive posts are boring arent they <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[slj]

Barn Doors

Your statement "In the Air Force, your credibility and competence counts."

There are notable exceptions to the general rule such as Day and Wratten

[Farfrompuken]

AG, you dullard,

you are becoming a complete caricature of all that's negative in the eyes of aircrew, concerning your trade. I suggest you stop now, and vent you views on Professional Admin NeTworking Society, available on <a href="http://www.pants.org" target="_blank">www.pants.org</a>

I'm sure you'll relate well, since you talk through your sphincter most of the time.

Please don't bother pointing out any spelling errors, because no-one gives a stuff.

PVR now, do us all a favour <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[nrkingdon]

Hmmmm...AG,. . It's interesting to see that you have such a low opinion of SARTU. You appear to grade aircrew by the type of aircraft they fly, thus destroying your credibility, PPL-boy. Keep burning those bridges Son, perhaps you'll need those SAR chaps one day (dangerous things those Cessnas).

As an Officer in the RAF, irrespective of branch, you need to develop some respect for the aircrew in our service that fought and died on behalf of our country. The wings that I wear represent the finest traditions set by them that are respected around the world. If you don't like that status(which comes with a price), then earn it yourself and tell me all about it three years later.

Wind your neck in.

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Si

I am suprised that any of you fellow RN personnel could seriously criticise you for being an aviator. Anybody with a brain realises that the FAA is a VITAL part of the Navy....

[Barn Doors]

slj, your point is a valid one and I'm in agreement that there are exceptions.... I was merely pointing out to AG that he is also one! <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[ROTAR EE]

Bloody Adminers!!

I cannot believe the bare faced cheek of it. RAF (and the other services) aircrew are just about the best anywhere in the world. They are good enough, hard working enough and professional enough to get the best out of the poor and ageing equipment in our inventory. Despite the paucity (look it up thick boy) of the kit we are provided with, we manage to give everyone else a run for their money, even when they are in vastly superior machines.

As well as having to be good at our own jobs, why is it we also have to be good at yours too (not that it's rocket bloody science)? I joined the Air Force to fly, not do the paperwork that some underachieving dimwit "hasn't got time to do".

Go to SHQ and it would seem that all the IT is fully swept up, everyone has a nice comfy swivel chair and foot rest and the temperature is carefully regulated lest anyone breaks into a sweat. It makes me sick. Anybody's Sqn building as well equipped? Don't all rush to respond. HMS Ocean is very nice though.

A few years back a good friend of mine died whilst on duty and an impromptu (unplanned) wake was held in the Sgts' Mess that night. We asked the Snr Member if the O's could join us (mixed rank crews) and it was approved. Sorted. Or so one would think. Half way through their 1st pint, the O's were forced to leave by a chief blunty and told to report to the Stn Cdr's office the following day. I know there are rules but for Pete's sake, when was the last time a blunty got anything more than a paper cut?? What a blatent lack of spirit and camaraderie. Just the kind of thing that is bringing HMF to their knees.

I have got no gripes whatsoever with any member of the RAF who does his or her job to the utmost of their ability. Indeed, given the current climate, they should be given a hearty slap on the back. Everyone, from the chefs, gunners, suppliers and police (OK, so I may be taking it a little far <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> ) to the steely eyed front line aircrew has a role and a place.

Just don't forget where your job fits in to the big picture, or the tail wags so hard, the dog's head falls off. And then where would the tail be smart boy?

End of rant.

... now that feels better, even if it is all one big wind up.

. .PS

How would YOU spend 30 Grand?

:)

[ 13 February 2002: Message edited by: ShutUp and Drive ]</p>

[Oh I See]

Hey A G

If some one at Cranners sees you for the t*** you are DO NOT PANIC. Call BA as they know the value of a good adminer.

Doh!. . :) :) :) :)

[Jump jump John]

Sorry, but if this IS genuine then Admin Gurner is the biggest class-1 C*NT of all time.

Stone him. Hard. Even if I don't say 'Jehova'!

[sennadog]

Chatty thread and very funny.

Can someone explain what a blunty is? And also a Ground Spike?

Yours, a civvy.

[ 14 February 2002: Message edited by: sennadog ]</p>

[AllTrimDoubt]

Hey AG (aka Tw*t)

Might I just point out on behalf of Si - and as fully qualified aircrew/another Fishead on an RAF station - that his contribution to the needs of Queen and Country undoubtedly far outweigh your meagre administrative effort.

I would suggest you consider a poll of people's views re your own credibility before querying a member of the Senior Service, let alone Aircrew.

If all else fails, perhaps you might ask NASA for vectors back to Earth..

<img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0"> <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[FJJP]

I can't believe this thread is still running. Why don't we all just ignore any more topics from AG and he will get bored and go away. All comment is fuelling the tw*t and giving him an incentive to keep posting. We all have our own views in blunties (some good, some bad). By reacting to this one it sh*t stirs and doesn't serve any purpose other than to leave us in a bad light.

Let's kill this one stone dead and leave him to gripe in public on his own base.

[ROTAR EE]

FJJP

I agree with your sentiment wholeheartedly, but if nothing else, it allows people to get things off their chest, and that has got to be a good thing.

After all, we can't be too vociferous at work lest we upset someone and ruin our careers...

I have a wonderful career behind me... :)

Gawd Bless 'em all.

[Admin Guru]

JJJ - Such a good use of the English language. You sound like the kind of man that is still a virgin. The ladies must love your quick witted dinner chat. . .I will accept the banter once you get into the air force proper. Now hurry off and write your essays like a good little student.

[Dr Schlong]

AG - What the hell is your problem? Is this some way of inflating your ego by fishing for bites? I suggest you read through the previous replies and take on board the fact that no-one thinks you're clever - just a frustrated little boy trying to take cheap potshots at the people that it is your job to support. Don't ever forget where your place is in the whole system, I'm not belittling any of the non-aircrew branches - they all have their place in the projection of air power which, like it or not, is what we are all about.

This a pilots' forum (and for that read aircrew) and, as mentioned earlier this is the only place where people can rant and not have it affect their careers. Please respect the spirit of PPRuNe and find another way to vent your frustrations - it's never too late to PVR if you hate aircrew so much!

[Simon R]

This guy just keeps on getting better. Have to agree with the last comments. AG, by his own admmision, is a first tourist adminer. His last comment just proves that the only reason he's on this sight is to pi*s us off. Best just ignore him and talk about some real issues, other then the ravings of a Fg Off adminer. Its been fun!

[ROTAR EE]

Only really posting so I can go past my 13th post quickly.

Shame to waste it though...

AG, you are a syphillitic snotgobbler.

And frnkly I couldnt give 2 hoots about my spelling or grammar. It's not my profession.

Did you know navigator is an anagram of "vagina rot"?

Was daddy an Air Marshall AG? May explain your success at OASC...

Per Ardua Vauxhall Astra

[positive_rate]

AG

Sitting at a computer at 21:30 on Valentine's Day and you have the cheek to call other people virgins?!!!!!

What's the matter, your blow-up doll got a puncture?

[Ralf Wiggum]

193 replies - Point proven, aircrew are whingers!

AG close this crap please, as I'm sure we all whinge even though it's not as much as Aircrew.

[Admin Guru]

Gentlemen, it has been an interesting few weeks for everyone with my forum running. I still feel that my intial post, whilst slightly provocative, was justified as the 194 replies of 'you are a tool' have substantiated.. .Until I start my next forum of 'Whinging aircrew, still hitting back' I am willing to let this forum die, and let aircrew focus on slating the weather man for doing his job of predicting the weather, or BAe for procuring the EFA.. .For now, I will shut up about the whining nature of aircrew to let a few people calm down about these home truths I've brought to light.

I shall save my other comments for other people's forums.

[FJJP]

Hooray! Goodnight, children, goodnight...

[Captain Kirk]

Admin Gunk,

You ask but you do not listen. Whilst you have, quite understandably, elicited some vigorously curt responses to you unsubstantiated insults, a good number of PPRuNers have gone to some trouble to provide constructive replies that expose your inexperience and immaturity for what it is. Do YOURSELF a favour - read and understand. Your time in the RAF is going to be miserable if you do not.

Beam me up!

[Madam ATCO]

Came to this site late so is now a good time to ask how some of our Admin brethren got promoted recently on 2-3 points? Don't you just have to breathe to get those?

[eye_spy]

Just stumbled on to the thread after it's obviously almost dead and buried but couldn't let this one go....first post too, what a way to do it.

Admin "Guru" (and I use Guru loosely). Were you dropped on your head soon after birth? You have a whinge about aircrew whinging....pot calling kettle black? I'm a "bluntie" like you, work with aircrew every day, and if you really are at a FJ Sqn and had half a clue you would know what those guys/gals who fly the machinery get up to day-to-day. Damn right they can whinge! Hell, if I was them quite frankly I'd have a whinge too.

Consider where you sit in the wider scheme of things....admin=not hard flying=hard...figure it out. Go have a run in the sim, see how busy and involved it is, then imagine that at 500+kts just off the deck pulling G's. Would you rather sign the paperwork on your desk? Or go have a coffee and think about it?

The people that fly these things work their butts off to get where they are. This forum here is the Professional Pilots forum, hence why I as a bluntie lurk here...but you just inspired me to comment. I suggest you sit here and lurk as I do, saying nothing, or pee off and go establish the Professional Admin O's forum where you can discuss leave apps and the latest form for advising next of kin...If you are wondering what kind of bluntie I am check out my profile here.

All I can say is get a grip and have a look at yourself...

[NavyNav]

Any suggestions on what I should spend my £30K bonus on?

[D-IFF_ident]

£12K on tax?

[Mike RO'Channel]

I don't who this Admin wallah is but he is in need of help - serious help. This 'us and them' thing is most unhelpful and is nearly always caused by a lack of understanding on both sides. If someone knows who AG is, please take a bit of time to educate him - take him flying, on detachment (working of course) - anything to help him understand that we are meant to be team and not causing eachother heartache. If no-one helps him then he will never learn.

That is all

AG, if no-one on your Stn is willing to help, please e-mail me.

[solotk]

Admin Guru,
Interesting thread developing in JetBlast at the moment....

Are you in fact, a 19 year old female, failed GD(air) bod, currently under training as a pilot for Crossair, lately known as Moritz Suter?

I just wondered, because you do seem to know a lot about Crabair, but strangely enough, fcukall about airworks or operational flying. In fact, a lot of what you spout, seems distinctly second hand, almost as if you've been invited to Happy hours, because you may have a relative in the Air Force.

Just out of interest, when did you graduate from IOT?

....and if you are indeed a 19 year old female, and wind-up merchant extraordinaire, then I think certain of my Light Blue forces bretheren, may want to get into an alcohol fuelled, sub-duvet knife fight with you.....

Tony