UK ARMED FORCES "STRETCHED TO LIMIT"

[BEagle]

From Ceefax p 104 160700L Jan 02:

<< UK ARMED FORCES "STRETCHED TO LIMIT"

Britain's armed forced are being stretched to the limit, Shadow Defence Secretary Bernard Jenkin has said.

Mr Jenkin says the latest deployment of 1800 UK troops to Afghanistan comes as the armed forces are shrinking and servicemen are under strain.

Armed forces should concentrate on direct threats and not, he says, "nannying broken states".

The House of Lords is due to debate the state of the armed forces later today. >>

[ 16 January 2002: Message edited by: BEagle ]</p>

[ScottishSteve]

Not sure if i am really qualified to comment on the extent of the truth to this statement however I am concerned that I may one day be joining an AirForce/Integrated Defence Force/EuroForce that is indeed overstretched. Im sure comments shall follow from qualified sources

I look forward to seeing what the Lords say today. Did they ask personnel their views on this?
SS

[lightbob]

Lord Guthrie agrees: "the former Chief of Defence Staff said that the Armed Forces were becoming “dangerously over-committed” and “increasingly overstretched”. " Buffoon has stated that whilst he 'takes note' of these views (the cynic says ignores)he takes advice from the current CDS (who has yet to get a Life Peerage!). Where next Tony, Somalia?

[RubiC Cube]

The TA have been called up to help our overstretched troops. Those being sent to Afghanistan will be replaced on roulement after 6 months. Sorry, I though we were only going to be there for 3 months. Did I miss something?

[MAXIMOL]

Was happening when the tories were last in power...........
Needs to be sorted but both parties would rather spend the money on hospitals and benifits.....
We could pay more tax I suppose!!!

[Loreto]

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1719000/1719117.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_1719000/1719117.stm</a>

<a href="http://www.tgarden.demon.co.uk/writings/articles/2000/000216source.html" target="_blank">http://www.tgarden.demon.co.uk/writings/articles/2000/000216source.html</a>

And, reassuringly:

<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4336423,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4336423,00.html</a>

[Doctor Cruces]

It's not a new thing this being stretched to the limit. And it's not just on overseas dets protecting the innocent in countries that have fallen apart. The UK is similarly stretched.

When I arrived at Marham in 1993, blokes were doing guard once in about 13 months or so. When I left The Mob in 1997 they were doing it 4 to 5 times a year.

This was, in my view, mostly due to all the so called support jobs being civilianised leaving gradually fewer and fewer RAF people to do the purely military duties. This also takes more tradesmen from squadron lines/bays etc and places more demands on those left to cover their work.

The problem is made worse by detachments which further denude squadron strength. Add this to the many Flt Lts who want to be Sqn Ldrs so when the boss says something like "Phwar phwar phwar by next Monday because phwar phwar phwar so working week end", Flt Lt (Jengo or whatever) says "OK Sir I'll tell the lads, no problem" Lads possibly already worked a 60 hour week to cover guards/dets etc but what the heck, it'll do my assesments the world of good.

There are also too many Sqn Ldrs who want to be Wincos, Wincos who want to be Groupies etc etc and as the rank gets higher so does the number of people affected by the particular persons ambition till there are whole stations working week ends because no one has the b**ls to say "NO." I use the week end working as just an example it could easily be something like "I want to to send 4 of our jets and a whole support package to outer wierdplace for a month for exercise waste of time" or something equally undesirable but the point remains the same.

Leadership is what is sorely lacking in todays Services. I am sorry to say that it seems (IMHO) that this has been replaced by self interest from Their Airships downward (How does it affect me? Apart from cudos from Tone and the boys it doesn't. Good, lets do it.) and I for one am thoroughly glad I am no longer in a position where I can be worked to death for the sake of someone's promotion prospects.

When will their Airships realise that although this "Can do" attitude is very laudable and one that should be striven for if possible, they must see that when flight safety is going to be compromised, the time has come to call a halt or review our commitments and see what can be scaled down in order to release resources for some new scheme.

Let there be no mistake, this IS costing lives whether because there is only an SNCO tradesman available to execute, oversee and sign off a job or a pilot who has been kept very busy on secondary duties and reports for flying duty tired (of course he is going to declare himself unfit due fatigue and have the Boss jump down his throat wearing his winter flying boots and damn his OWN assesments)or whatever, someone needs to call a halt.

Cynical? Possibly but the Air Force made me that way and I genuinly believe something has to be done as do many other writers to this erstwhile forum.

Hope it gets better Guys and Gals and keep up the good work.

Doc C.

[Doctor Cruces]

P.S.

I suppose we are going to have to mount an enourmous effort for the Jubilee as well, just to add to the strain!!

Doc C.

[Muff Coupling]

Interesting point brought to light by LightBob (forgive the pun).

Does Hoonigan really take advice from the current CDS? Does El Presidente listen to either of them?Me thinks not...you may recall they both got benched for "Striking Back - Chapter 1 Afghanistan"..as El Tony recalled Lord Guthrie for "advice". Bit of a slap in the face for "Ships"!

[Talking Radalt]

Doctor Duces says:
"there are whole stations working week ends because no one has the b**ls to say NO."
I agree with the lack of b&lls argument but, playing devils advocate for a mo, isn't bitching about working on, heaven forbid...a Saturday missing the point?
The average bloke on the hangar floor/in the cab of a bowser/ on the gate will happily work any day of the week as long as he doesn't have to work EVERY day of the week.
In my current line of employment we work weekends, evenings, Saturdays, match days, holidays, birthdays, we go to the desert, Northern Ireland, the Falkands, boggy fields in the barren North, we even go on that bloody light grey floaty thing. We don't mind, we some times even enjoy it but to those in so-called power...just stop taking it so blatantly for granted because thus it becomes the norm.

[Doctor Cruces]

Talkingradalt,

Yes that did simplify it a bit and that was not my intention as indeed I also said that this was just one example.

I agree with you whole heartedly. I worked week ends/nights/most bank hols etc etc but only got hacked off when it was taken for granted and didn't get ANY time off.

Doc C

[angrycat]

Vote with your feet then.

[TheWelshOne]

Dr C - We still have WOs who are always in a very good position to tell the Sqn Boss enough is enough. It is within his TORs to temper the over- enthusiastic flt cdr or indeed the sqn cdr. Maybe we do not have the good old WO these days who speak their mind and will listen to the trade managers and voice their concerns upwards, even direct to the Stn Cdr if need be.

All officers have ambition, that's why they went for a commission. I think it was Montgomery that told his troops to shut up and get on with it - he told them to stop 'belly aching' or words to that effect. Was Montgomery a great leader? To his troops at the time he was probably one of those officer types making them work weekends.

Don't get me wrong DC, a lot of what you said is true and we could do with more officers with 'morale courage' who do the right thing for the right reasons. I do not think the working weekend (whilst not detached)is the norm thoughout the sqns unless it is absolutely necessary - if it is then I stand to be corrected and have every sympathy with everybody who is forced into this working regime.