How thick were the F-104's wings?

[stepwilk]

Okay, so I'm reading Kelly Johnson's autobiography, "More Than My Share of It All," and in it, he claims that the F-104 (which he designed) had wings "about as thick as a pair of razor blades." An exaggeration, right? I'm doing an article on Johnson for Aviation History magazine, so can anybody tell me roughly how thick a Starfighter's wing was at mid-chord?

[Green Flash]

What wings? :)

[Buster Hyman]

Can't tell you the actual thickness, but I believe they had to put covers over the leading edges to stop people getting injured!:uhoh:

(Great aircraft btw!) :ok:

[BOAC]

I'd guess no more than 5 inches at the root and bleedin' sharp at the front and back! Cannot now remember the wingspan, but I guess around 20ft.

[henry crun]

One Google link says "The actual thickness of the wing varied from a maximum of 4.2 inches at the root to 1.96 inches at the tip.".

[henry crun]

Replied in Mil.

[papazulu]

WIKI (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_XF-104) for once has the right answer. "Kelly" was quote also by F104's test-pilot Tony LeVier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_LeVier) on the thickness-to-chord and razor-blade comparison...

PZ :ok:

[Rigga]

Buster & BOAC are just about right - though I never actually noted the depth of the stubs, they were about 7/8ft long each and about 4-5 inches deep(from memory).

And I did put guards on the leading and trailing edges to stop damage (but to what/whom?).

I used to chuckle at the rescue markings below the canopy (to be read in a yorkish accent) "Break Glass and Pull 'T' Handle..."

[Speed Twelve]

I had a look round an ex-Luftwaffe F104G recently, and bearing in mind the old 'razor blade leading edge' thing found the reality to be no worse than the leading edge on a metal propeller. In other words, although the wing is comically thin, even for a fast-jet, it isn't a problem to run your hand along the leading edge.

I could only see a problem for dwarves running into the unprotected wing at high speed.

[dmussen]

Saw pair of Dutch 104s attempt a formation take-off with full afterburner at RAF Leeming after they had diverted there back in the seventies.
The leader got airbourne demonsrating a sensational rate of climb. His no.2 sat on the piano keys blowing massive amounts of smoke until he shut the beast down exited the aircraft and proceeded to take f****** large fast steps across the grass.
I reckon he could have won a medal at the Olympics.

[Fris B. Fairing]

F-104 Starfighter - Modern Combat Aircraft 9
by Arthur Reed, Ian Allan 1981 (p.18) states:

From the side of the fuselage to the tip, each was only seven feet seven inches long. With a thickness ratio of 3.36%, and with a maximum thickness of 4.2in next to the fuselage, it slimmed down to only 1.96in at its extremity. The theory in Lockheed was that its leading-edge flap was sharp enough to cut steak with. Whether anybody ever tried is not recorded. What is fact is that it was such a dangerous object for ground staff to walk into that special felt pad guards were provided.

My personal favourite nickname for the F-104 is "Bullet and Blades"

Rgds

[Ridge Runner]

Saw pair of Dutch 104s attempt a formation take-off with full afterburner at RAF Leeming after they had diverted there back in the seventies.
The leader got airbourne demonsrating a sensational rate of climb. His no.2 sat on the piano keys blowing massive amounts of smoke until he shut the beast down exited the aircraft and proceeded to take f****** large fast steps across the grass.
I reckon he could have won a medal at the Olympics.


Your point?

[dmussen]

Just a true story. Looked very nasty to me.:=

[tinpis]

Was sat behind one once in line for take off at Torino
We were having to lumber through France as we would be unable to cilmb direct through the Alps :(
They cleared him for take off and asked him to "call when passing FL250"
Bugger me, he took off climbed in a right turn and when crosswind called through 25 grand!
"Bueno, call Milano, ciao"

[Kerosene Kraut]

Those leading edges were certainly not "razor sharp". You could not use them like a knife's blade or something. The metal-propblade comparison above seems quite right. The wing stubs are still impressively small. Especially on the stretched nuke-bomber version we had back then. And blown flaps she had.

BTW is NASA still flying it's used german F-104G's?

[Gainesy]

but perhaps you old farts are more knowledgeable...



More than you anyway.:E

[brakedwell]

These photos photos of a Luftwaffe F-104 in the Deutsches Museum - Flugwerft Schleissheim near Munich some idea of the wing thickness.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/IMG_0265.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c32/sedgwickjames/IMG_0258.jpg

[Lightning Mate]

Fris B has given the correct answer.
The wing thickness/chord ratio was 3.36.

Schhh.......I've flown it. :)

[grobace]

They cleared him for take off and asked him to "call when passing FL250"
Bugger me, he took off climbed in a right turn and when crosswind called through 25 grand!

Which just serves to remind us all what a poor turn performance it had!

[stepwilk]

I might add that one of the things I've already learned from the knowledgeable and experienced people who have replied is that though for decades "aviation journalists" have witlessly perpetuated the myth that the F-104's wings were literally razor-sharp, that's an urban myth. they're apparently "sharp" for an airfoil but no worse than a prop blade. I've walked into many a stopped prop when preflighting an aircraft, and I'm still here--slightly bloodied at times, but never scalped.

That's why coming to the pros is often better than "research."

Oh, and by the way, my "old farts" remark was in jest. I'm 73.

[Rigga]

I think the point of protecting the leading edge was to prevent the smallest of dents and dings causing turbulence across the aerofoil - such a small and critically profiled wing probably needed as much lift as it could get!

[papazulu]

Just to cut all the gossip THIN, very THIN...:E

A friend gave me permission to publish this snap of the former IAF spear-head...

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4773/f104leadingedgemod.jpg

Any more requests?

PZ :ok: