Wings Flight Training, NZ - Is it really that bad??

[honnete_aviateur]

I've heard heaps of dodgy stories abt this place in palmerston north.. students overlogging their hrs.. some instructors themselves indulging in dodgy stuff... Is it true that its amongst the worst flying schools in new zealand?? coz i was under the impression that the flying standards in new zealand are amongst the highest in the world..??? i've been talking to different people n its a little obvious that the reputation of the school isnt very good..


Was pretty keen to know the views of different pilots/instructors/students in new zealand....

[S.E.A.L.11]

Good 'ole Wings....

Well Ive heard many things much like you probably have, and have seen some 'unusual' things aswell. There are some great instructor's there unfortunately working for very little and getting very little in return in order that higher being's get alot more for alot more. :ugh:

But hey there are pro's and con's to every place right? Just how many con's will you put up with in order to justify the pro's? :confused:

[percy-logfire]

many of the rumors are blown out of proportion like most rumors. however, some of them are true just not as bad as made out. the school will be really good if they had the right people in charge which has happened before.

[ZKSUJ]

Wings Flight training Academy.... what a place

Things were looking good late last year when a certain CFI was at the reigns but then joined CAA, where as now..... from what I've seen and heard things have slipped and can be ALOT better.

I agree with Seal, I know of a small group of staff at Wings who are by the book and have no skeletons in their closet

[honnete_aviateur]

@percy

yea i do agree that sometimes rumours are blown out of proportion.. but i've heard some stuf like the new cfi failing his c cat a couple of times before going off to ozzie n doing the casa B cat equivalent n then converting it bcoz its a lot easier??

@ seal

umm, unusual stuff like what, if u dont mind?? :uhoh: :uhoh:

[cavemanzk]

coz i was under the impression that the flying standards in new zealand are amongst the highest in the world..???

We let 16yo fly solo after 10hrs in air training. So I don't think our standards are that high.

[S.E.A.L.11]

Honnete,

I try avoid speculating or rumouring (new word?) on this forum so the following are facts:

CFI failed C-Cat 6 times, twice at 3 different locations and got it on his 7th attempt. Couldnt be bothered putting in the effort (actually I dont know that for sure, but if ya know the guy...) for a NZ B-Cat so gapped over to Aus to get a Grade 2, before converting it back to a B-Cat and then took up his current job at Wings.

I quote words from CFI's own mouth, "I dont really care about students, I just care about how many twin hours I get" :=. I'm not the only one to have heard these exact words.

The place has tons of potential, but as percy-logfire said if it was run by the right people. :rolleyes:

SUJ has the idea, there are some folk there who are by the book and have no skeletons. Not everyone though...

Im not going to say much honnete, but I do no the Wings the CAA and NMIT (the student loan funding institution for Wings) know is not quite the same as reality. :sad:

[honnete_aviateur]

@seal
fail C-Cat 6 times?? well now its a little obvious why he didnt want to put in the effort to get upto speed for a B cat flight test isnt it???

[longrass]

Yes it is... But only because it is in NZ

[percy-logfire]

firstly good on the instructors keeping by the book. i heard its not easy when u keep getting asked by management to do stupid stuff

its all down to the lack of discipline installed into the students. their radio calls are proof enough and what can be seen by there circuit pattern.

@seal
dnt forget. "i know i should care about my instructors but i dnt" has also been heard. a few people tell me he just wants hours and changes the rules to suit him.

@ honnete
i heard the CAA didnt like the fact he did that and made him do extra stuff before they converted it. doesnt change the fact that that place needs a new CFI.

@cavemanzk

we may let them go solo early but the CPL MEIR is as good as a uk ATPL.

[honnete_aviateur]

@percy-logfire

well failed C-Cat 6 times n then converts a Grade 2 to a B-Cat.. N CAA allow him to be the CFI?? There's something seriously dodgy going on then coz dont the caa need to approve a CFI?????...:suspect::suspect:

[S.E.A.L.11]

The CAA required said CFI to have an instructor renewal with an A-Cat at his previous employment place to validate his B-Cat. Im not sure how objective or subjective that was though (another story altogether) :suspect:. CFI promptly moved to Wings and took up the position then...:uhoh:

[lilflyboy262]

I personally flew with and trained with the CFI at wings when he was in auckland.
The auckland school had a bit of a rift over the licence as one instructor refused to recognise his privledges as the other did.
Failed the C-cat not just due to lack of effort, but also did not like taking instruction and advice from his instructors that trained with him.

On the other hand, He is one hell of a nice guy.

Before he even left auckland, he also told me the same thing regarding twin hours. But if you were new and unexperienced, wouldnt you?

[ranfurly]

Well if you dont like the scene at Wings you can always go across to other - Flight Training Manawatu at Feilding only 4nm away. They appear to be doing a pretty good job - certainly training a big number of students and busy all the time. I hear they will have a King Air C90 on line at Palmerston North next month for advanced multi training , so must be doing something right .

[amlan]

Seal,
Failed C-Cat 6 times???:uhoh::uhoh: Well, I was under the impression that he failed once. I know the guy personally and he once told that the CAA weren’t really happy to endorse the B-Cat on his New Zealand licence on the basis of his Australian Grade 2 instructor rating :confused:and therefore he was made to do a B-Cat “Flight Test”…
But, I do agree with the fact that the place has tons of potential and if run in a better way, would be a lot better than it is now.:ok:
Honnete,
You need CAA approval to appoint someone as the CFI. From memory, he was the acting CFI of wings (in which case you just need to inform the CAA I guess) when he joined the organization.:)
Lilflyboy,
Um did one of the instructors refuse to acknowledge that he’s a B-Cat due to which he left the flying school at Auckland????:confused::hmm:
And I somewhat disagree with you on him being new and inexperienced. 1100 hrs (which is the number of hrs he had when he joined wings) isn’t a lot of experience but it certainly doesn’t mean that u are new and inexperienced either:=. And there certainly is no need to say things like “Rules are meant to be broken” and “I don’t really care about the students.. I just care about how many twin hours I get” :=.. Because being the cfi one’s responsible for training standards and safety for heaven’s sake!!! :ugh:
And from what I’ve heard from the students/instructors he’s become quite power hungry of lately:E and there's a great deal of favoritism going on at that place:sad:.. i've also heard stories about people being neglected before their CPL just because the CFI wanted to fly in the multi ( btw no one's ready for a flight test until the CFI says he/she 's ready).. Is that fair on the student???:=

[percy-logfire]

@honnete

there is no requirement for CAA to approve the CFI because wings operates under part 91. and the technical side is that RP is CFI and AG is CFI under training.

and from a good source, he only acts nice and will stab you in the back to get what he wants.

[lilflyboy262]

No he refused to accept it while he was flying at the school.

He didnt believe he had enough training to know when to let students go solo etc, because correct me if im wrong, the grade 2 casa endorsement does not cover that?

Hours does not mean experience Amlan, but I wasnt meaning him specifically. I was meaning in a general term. If I was instructing, the moment I got the right amount of hours to land a Airline job, I would be out of there.
Hence why I would NEVER make a good instructor.

What the poor guy doesnt realise is, is how small the industry is in NZ, and he is seriously shooting himself in the foot with the way he is carrying on. The big boys read these forums too.

[amlan]

lilflyboy,

well yea suppose so.. but there's no need say the kind of stuff he said anyway.. and i wouldnt really have a clue of what's covered and what's not in the CASA Grade 2 flight test. I got my B Cat the 'proper' way u see:cool: :ok: haha jokes..

[ZKSUJ]

lilflyboy - I disagree with you saying someone who wants to go airline would not make a good instructor. We all know that not many people actually go into instructing to be there long term, they are there to eventually move on to bigger and faster things. However, being a good instructor in my view is not to do with where you want to end up. It is about taking the student's interest first, and not looking at the job as nothing but a means to rack up the hours.

Sounds like CFI has changed a bit since he left Auckland (i.e the debate on niceness)

[lilflyboy262]

SUJ, Thats exactly what I was getting at. When you are there purely with the view that you dont care, that you are there only for the hours, you will never be a good instructor.
Obviously you have your own interests first, and not the students.

[remainderdrag]

worked down the road from those guys and i've heard a few rumours. heard that those students are pretty shocking at logging (whether its padding out the time for a flight or just making it up i'm not sure)..the place is a joke from what i've heard..i dont understand how they're still operating. the rest of the country gets a hard time if one debrief isnt complete in the student training records and these guys get away with pulling the finger at pretty much every law...

As for the cfi failing 5 or 6 times or whatever..what a joke! wouldn't someone get the hint when they had to ask for another flight test after spending $5000 cocking up what most people pass in one or two gos? as for the ""captain""...fuel starvation (resulting in a partenavia in a paddock) is the retards way of saying they dont understand or practice fuel management (my reference: cpl flight test standards guide...). how do they keep getting students? whats wrong with ftm or mainland???

[remoak]

percy_logfire

[quote][we may let them go solo early but the CPL MEIR is as good as a uk ATPL. /QUOTE]

Complete nonsense, particularly as the requirements for ATPL issue in the UK normally involve an LPC which for most people will be on a complex turboprop or jet. Not sure why you think banging around the Manawatu in P68 or whatever compares to that. The NZ CPL MEIR may throw a few more curlies into the mix, but the skill required to manage a decent-sized jet is considerably greater, particularly as the systems are far more complex and the number of failures that you can simulate is a lot higher. Not only that, but the whole exercise is carefully monitored by an examiner with a lot more capacity to observe, and on many types the entire flight can be recorded for later CBT critique.

And I have done both...

[Rich Pitch Power]

sounds so much like a place called Simuflight that ended up morphing into what is now CTC in Hamilton. I am so glad I am past this nonsense....It seems aviation can't change it's spots and become a trustworthy, well run enterprise....