Sharp airlines

[peugeotboi]

Hey all.

I'm just wondering if anyone has went on and done the cadetship with sharp airlines, Is it recommend and is it a good stepping stone into Qantaslink if its what your aiming for.

Thank you

[highflyer87]

I haven’t done the cadetship so cannot comment of quality of training but I do have info on the employment side of it. But like most cadetships... they have their own pros and cons:

Pros:
- The course contains all theory and practical components for a start in aviation...cpl, aptl’s, mecir etc..
- 12 months employment after completion of training (only 10 months for the current graduates as they got behind schedule)
- Flying turboprop on RPT and charter in multi-crew environment
Come out with certificates and diplomas in aviation, which if you chose to go to uni down the track they do credit you for
- Good bunch to work with

Cons:
- Course cost is $109k or $98k with salary advance/bond (minus the metro endorsement you could get your cpl, mecir and atpl's for $70k give or take if done privately and self studied)

- Cadets only paid $400 a week for the 12 months employment and you work flat so no time for other second job

-A lot of secondary duties like check-in and ground handling

(all i can think of at the moment)

In the past some cadets have been kept on after their 12 months employment (not very many), and others got jobs with other operators on metros and single pilot twins. But in the current economic climate chances of being kept on are zero as there is another 13 or so cadets waiting to jump in after you finish. Also recent cadets who have finished their employment have found it difficult to get jobs and are looking at having to go back onto singles.


In the end mate, if you got the money to do it and don’t mind living off the smell of an oily rag for 12 months (or have your parents continue to support you) then it’s probably a good way to get a start in the industry. And by the time you did the 27 months (training and employment) the economy should be in better shape. But even when the economy is at its best you won’t jump from sharp into qantaslink.

Just my 2 cents worst... hope it helps :)

[msharp]

I tread where others dare to go...but must i say Highflyer nearly got it right but;

Pros/Cons.

1. 2009 contract was only for 10 months due to a reduction in the course length from 30 months to 27 months. This was because Rex/Qantas/Fastrack/Jetcraft etc all offered "short courses" not something I was happy about but guess how many still offer cadetships? This was spealt out in the 2009 contracts prior to sign up. On the flip side we offered NO reduction in flying hours i.e. we still promised the 500 hours of experience or 750 hours total as per the 12 month contract

2. Cadets are paid i.a.w. the Regional Airline Pilots award group 6 Co-Pilot i.e. $38,742 plus super etc (look it up). The reduction comes from your choice to take the reduced price i.e. $98K we then advance you $11K to help cover the course costs (mum and dad normally do not argue!!) This does then reduce your take home and this amount is bonded until you finish...no apologies for this.

3. Yes we work you hard but within duty limits but Gen Y sometimes have issues with working hard but don't get me started....no apologies for that as most pilots reading this including me worked their buts off to get where they are.

4. I cannot help current GFC but I can tell you there are 2 cadets left without jobs from 2008 course and I have secured them interviews in the next few weeks (they do not know this yet but will find out now no doubt!)

5. 19 years of running our cadetship has delivered a 85% success ratio something that I bet most larger courses would not get close to...no apologies for that! But when Jonny or Sammy says they find it all too hard and even though mum and dad have spent $100K on me I would rather take some time off to tour the world etc...I say fill your boots young fellow but you are wasting a great opportunity....you know you can lead the horse to water etc!!

6. A small majority of our pilots have gone to QL but most have gone to Jetstar, Virgin, Qantas, Cathay, Airnorth, Rex, Brindabella etc. Not always directly but that's aviation love it or hate it.

As HF says if you want to work hard get paid reasonably you will make it in aviation but its never a given. My first job was flogging around in a C210 then instructing (and I loved it) and after 1,500 hours I finally got some twin time only to have my job taken by the 89'ers, but no hard feelings to these guys as they did it hard as well.

So if getting your backside into a 250kt turboprop at 250 hours in a
multicrew enviroment at flight levels above most wx earning award wages is tough then try doing what I did and most other aviators have done before you....! also do not bother applying for our course.

So give me a call or send me an e-mail if you are interested and I will tell you how it is and how it should be...I make no apologies for that and the many that have been before me.

Sleep well.

Msharp.

[peugeotboi]

Thank you so much for that. I guess now i have a lot to think about, But it would be really nice if people who have done it could just spare a minute to drop something in about the cadetship

Thank you

[trashie]

peugeotboi

I have known MS for many years and seen his operation develop over the years from a small flying training school to the innovative operation it is today. (He probably does not know who I am these days). From the beginning he has established a professional and safety ethos that is second to none in the industry. If you are willing to work hard as he has stated you will become very employable in this industry.

[Wally Mk2]

Apart from the money this is a pretty cruzy way of getting a foot in the door of an industry that can be at times very fickled. I would imagine it's hard work to get thru it all but as MS said....we worked our butts off to get where we are.............

MS has always been a DTE guy, he's one of the few who will actually talk to you at ground level. Remember MS runs a business, he does this primarily to make money to live/survive like we all do. Try doing the same cheaper!
Just as a side note here. I used to own a hobby shop years ago & it was amazing the amount of customers whom asked for a discount even though an item was the cheapest you could find in any hobby store. I fixed that problem by putting a sign up above my counter. "Dear customer. If yr willing to tell yr employer that you will accept 10% less wages off next weeks pay then I'll ditto that same 10% here at point of sale"
I know above is a bit off track but it costs to be a pilot today anyway you look at it.

If cadet ship is the way of the future then MS is the future,shame about the hair though!!:ok:


Wmk2

p.s.........MS plz fwd bribe money to bank Acc xxxxx-xxxxx-xxxxxxx:}

[Pilotette]

peugeotboi...

The cadetship is structured very well and although I can't comment on the training first hand either, I have worked for the company and know you will get what you pay for. The groups are small enough that they are personal and therefore you will get the help and attention you need to progress consistently, you are not just another number like at some bigger schools. I'm sure you didn't expect MS himself to answer your post..as Wally already said, he is a really down to earth guy, very upfront and honest and runs the business and cadetship in a very professional and fair manner. Sure you will have to work hard but the cadets by no means work any harder than you would at other GA outfits...especially those out bush!! In fact, you are even able to stay in "civilization" while gaining some really valuable experience and really, if you can't handle the workload at Sharp, you are probably in the wrong industry. With regards to moving on to other companies, there have been enough quality pilots produced through the cadetship that have moved into the larger companies MS stated and therefore have created a good reputation for the future cadets. Of course, nothing is certain, but thats aviation for you.
Good luck with your decision and as MS said, give him a call if you have any questions...he doesn't beat around the bush. :ok:

Wally...haha yes, poor MS is lacking a bit in the hair department but it does give him some character! :p

[highflyer87]

MS cheers for correcting my information..:ok:


So peugeotboi I’d say mate if you got the money then do it!

If I had the money and knew about when I was looking to start my training I would have done it.

[Wally Mk2]

..'pilotette' oh MS is a character alright:-)...........apparently I believe being bald is a real turn on to a certain species of humans, I wouldn't know this of course as I have hair a plenty:} MS always seems to be smiling, me thinks I'm missing something here, well I'm not but I'd like to be!:}

Anyway if you can go by the words being said elsewhere in another thread about the Metro (mostly bad) then these young whipper snippers who step into one with being about as green as a blade of grass deserve some recognition!:ok:



Wmk2:)

[lowlite]

Anyway if you can go by the words being said elsewhere in another thread about the Metro (mostly bad) then these young whipper snippers who step into one with being about as green as a blade of grass deserve some recognition!

The whipper snippers don't know any better, it is the captains that fly with them that deserve the recognition !!

Anyway, for what it is worth I have flown with a couple of blokes who have come from the Sharp cadetship and they were pretty good. Green, yes, but safe, knew their limitations and the way around a metro.

[pc12togo]

I have worked with a number of young guys that have come through MS operation through the 90s and have all been very well trained. When we lost a pilot to the airlines we would look for one that had been trained by MS. They may have been green but were very good and with a year had moved on to the Airlines. Well done MS.

DU

[EXEK1996]

What do they use for training?

[startingout]

Cessna 172
Cessna 182
Piper Seneca PA34-220T
Fairchild Swearingen Metroliner SA227-AC/DC

SO :}

[j3pipercub]

eh?

So a 172, 182, Seneca and Metro III and 23, is that what you were trying to say...

[D-J]

I suppose so.

Effective communication is not one of your strong point's it would seem. :E

[schoolboy]

They seem to be a good airline and it's a good way in.

[peugeotboi]

Alot of people at my flying school arn't recommending it at all, even my own instructor said its a waste of money, all they do is take you in for your money, once your done trainning they simply tell you "your on your own".

I know malcolm posted, its clear that his going to make his cadetship sound good, but the question is, IF it's a cadetship WHY are cadets paying for it???....in my eyes that doesnt make any sence.

Malcolm if you do read this post please comment, i have one question for you, How many cadets are you taking in for next year and how many applied??

[capt787]

a cert/diploma/degree in aviation is useful when/if you decide to go to uni 10/15 years down the track. however if you do decide to get a diploma.degree you should choose something other than aviation (engineering, commerce or beer making)

[kalavo]

Ahh Peugeotboi :) Nobody is holding a gun to your head and saying you must do the Sharp course otherwise you'll never ever be a real pilot. But you have to start asking yourself some questions... Has anyone at your current flying school flown anything bigger than a Cessna 210? Out of those still standing, how many stand to lose out if you decide to do all your training with Sharp rather than at your current flying school... CPL would be at least $50,000 these days? $70,000 by the time you add an instrument rating. Most pilots will have spent 100k by the time they make it to an airline.

"All they do is take you in for your money, once your done trainning they simply tell you "your on your own" - sounds like most flying schools to me ;)

If a commercial license has no guarantee of a job at the end of it, why are people still lining up to pay for it? :)


There's a _LOT_ of things you learn once you get out of your flying school and go in to the real world of GA. MS has put his own name on a product and obviously values it enough to make sure by the time you've left, he's taught you as much as he can about the industry and given you exposure to a multicrew RPT in complex aircraft. The endorsement on the Metro isn't cheap and appears to be the difference between the cost of his course and most schools. He's also giving you a lot of experience in the right seat once you're qualified and paying you for it. Sure the copilot time won't help you get in to the left hand seat for LC-RPT, but you're also not walking away as a 200 hour bare CPL with no people/passenger management skills competing against every other 200 hour CPL for a job.

While it appears to be a good course, I personally think you're missing out if you don't head North and fly 210s to the middle of no where - so many stories to tell which just don't happen in RPT :)

[deano65]

Is there a strict maximum age for cadets or can anyone with the right credentials and obviously enough money embark on one of these?

[peugeotboi]

i just fail to understand why cadets are paying for the course, Its a cadetship, Cadets arn't ment to be paying for there education.

Does anyone know of anyone that has taken up this cadetship?? ovusly only they will know.

Also how many people are they taking in for the 2010 cadetship.

[mcgrath50]

Sadly boi, if you want any type of cadetship with an Australian company, you HAVE to pay. Wether that is right or like in the GA topic it's part of the degenerating conditions is another matter, but in Australia you have to redefine the word cadetship, it's not what the Europeans get.

The benefits are there to different degrees (compare benefits of Rex v Qantas cadetships) but like anything you do miss experiences, same as if you take a GA route or a RAAF route. In the end whichever way you go, with the right attitude you will get wherever you want (that's what I am banking on anyway ;))

[smiling monkey]

i just fail to understand why cadets are paying for the course, Its a cadetship, Cadets arn't ment to be paying for there education.

You must be new around here. Mate, even Qantas cadets pay for their own training. No such thing as a free ride here in Aus; it's not Asia, you know. :rolleyes:

[RXman]

And gee P boi, have you checked out the cost of any tertiary education in Australia?

- A basic Arts degree is going to have you shelling out several 10's of thousands or several years of HECS debt for a 3 year pass degree....

Nothing is free anymore .

[msharp]

peugeotboi (AA)

I suggest you wind it up now its not doing your application any good! :ugh:

But since you asked and for the record again....ALL cadets get offered 12 months employment and over 19 years we have achieved 85% employment success.

Most cadets are turned away at pre-application point i.e. on receipt of their resume and academic results. We probably get 80-100 per year but I never really count them I just try and pick the best ones.

I am not really concerned about what others think as we have been doing it long enough and have the runs on the board. Most of our cadets work their guts out to get to where they are so you are probably doing them an injustice....I can handle the critisism.

But that is a lesson you will need to learn.....as the others have said there is no free ride in this world son! :O

msharp.

p.s. that smilie looks a bit like me...enough of the hair jokes guys!!!

[EXEK1996]

msharp,

Saw 2 x your Metros at ADL last week great looking ships!

I hope your RPT runs are holding up okay.

Well Done:ok:

[clinty83]

Hi all

Does anyone know if REX accept applicants to their cadetships that hold CPL and MECIR, 2 almost 3 ATPL's and about 300hrs??

I'd love to fly something like night freight metros or saabs etc. I know its a long shot but I'm very enthusiastic to get a start ASAP. Working off an endorsement does't bother me. If a contract for 3,4,5 years was put in front of me it'd be signed in about 2.5 sec.

Clinty83

[Chadzat]

And this is why aviation is in the state its currently in....:ugh:

[j3pipercub]

Sweet looking paint jobs on the Metro's too!

Peugeotboi, are you serious?

j3

[clinty83]

Chadzat

I'm sure you also had to start somewhere. If you know of any GA jobs around for people of my level of experience feel free to let me know.

[Chadzat]

Mate I would, if I knew you, thats kinda how it works, you get talking with people everywhere you go connected to Aviation and something will turn up. Have you had a go at heading West (normally its north but I see you are in Qld)?

Im not having a go at you for being enthusiastic, thats fantastic and it will see you get far. But dont stoop to the lowest level until you have tried everything else first.

You're not going to make too many friends around the place if you go sprouting off about offering to pay for endorsements and especially the ridiculous T's and C's that go with the Rex cadetship.

[clinty83]

Well mate I suppose all are entitled to their own opinion. It would suit me a hell of a lot better for family reasons to be able to stay in YBBN. If I'm not successful here then yes I will have to head west, I really want to get out of my current nonflying job just afetr xmas.

[j3pipercub]

Hi Clinty,

I can understand your desire to stay in BN, however, I do not think that it is a possibility. You may be able to be close to BN (3-4 hours drive) but a job in BN with your experience is highly unlikely IMO. I didn't think REX had a BN base anyway?

j3

[clinty83]

I know that is mre than likely the case.:) Rex don't have a BN base but I know of two lucky people who landed a job with Pel Air on metros with my hrs. I think Pel Air is a subsidury of REX?? Just hopeful I suppose.

The western ave is looking to be the best option. But it is still very quiet in GA.

[kalavo]

Yeah very quiet here.. I've seen four people start new jobs in the past fortnight. :rolleyes: Seen a few other new faces around the place but haven't spoken to them yet.

Not to worry, if the very enthusiastic are all staying in Brisbane, then I guess operators will just have to keep giving the jobs to the unenthusiastic people who find it all too hard to stay in a capital city and have packed up the car to meet and greet operators.

[puff]

Clinty - do all those guys that got jobs at Pel-Air still have their jobs, because Pel basically closed down it's Metro ops and most of the guys were all given the heave ho.

Even in Virgin and Qantas - BN is one of the hardest bases to get into

[Flying Meat Cleaver]

Well said Chadzat and Kalavo! :D:D:D

The industry is what it is take it or leave it! (many end up leaving) Knowing people and being in the right place at the right time are the keys. Anyone who thinks they're in for an easy ride is in for a real shock. I think even some of the cadets of various operators are finding that one out. There will be the odd golden boy/girl story but for the majority its not an easy path and there are no real shortcuts. Certainly not ones that won't come back to bite you on the rear end in some form.

FMC.

[the air up there]

Surely clinty83 is a windup.

CPL and MECIR, 2 almost 3 ATPL's and about 300hrs??


Either that, or you have been badly mislead on the first job front. For all the newbies out there, here are the numbers that you need to be looking at.

First Job
CPL and 200-250hrs+ but the more the better, then all you need to worry about is reaching 1000/200. Meaning 1000hrs TT on a 200 series something similiar (Airvan, Bonanza, etc)

Then you can start thinking about 500/2, or 500 multi engine. Note I said start thinking, 1000hrs doesn't magically gift a job in a twin, could be 800, could be 1500 TT.

Once you have 2000TT and 500 multi, then you can start to look for metro/saab night freight jobs on the east coast.

I'm not being being mean, I'm stating the likely course your career will take. Anything other than this is more an exception than a rule.

To state that you will sign a long term contract and pay off an endorsment just to make life easier will only backfire on you in the longterm, and makes life harder for those more qualified to earn a better wage.

[peugeotboi]

Sorry for asking about if its free, i know nothing is free these days.

i have acouple of friends up in Kuwait and Qatar they're doing a cadetship and they're not paying for it. I just thought l'll ask. I did read on the website of sharp airlines that you do have to pay, but i thought l'll ask in general.


malcolm, i guarantee you that i will work harder then any cadet you've came across, i just hope you give me that chance to prove so.


thank you.

[the air up there]

thanks minger, coz I aint changing my handle to "the air up their" sounds a little suss.

[minger]

It wasn't directed towards you because there is nothing wrong with it.

[the air up there]

yea, i know, I was more agreeing with you. :ok:

Saying that if I used his interpretation it would sound suss.:}

[Towering Q]

they're....not their.

How to Use There, Their and They're - wikiHow (http://www.wikihow.com/Use-There,-Their-and-They're)

[DAHMAH]

Might be nice to get back to the original topic.

[Soar2384]

Out of curiosity, does anyone else find it a bit strange that the so called "good" operator is thretening not to accept an application because of fair questions asked by someone who doesn't know aviation yet? I mean what injustice is being done to the current cadets by opening this thread? Sounds like everyone that's worked there was happy enough but i get concerned when I hear an employer talk like that. Especially when it's on PPruNe of all places!

[j3pipercub]

Good for you, your concern is noted...

It reflects a work ethic, IMHO. The Original Poster was told what to expect from the horses mouth, and then began to question things, despite having little to no knowledge about the industry.

j3.

[mlesser]

If you are having such doubts about it, then it probably isnt for you. Going bush isnt the most glamorous thing i have done, but its certainly been a lot of fun. I can see why most would want to fast track their careers as pilots, but smelling some roses on the way isnt such a bad thing.

[Soar2384]

j3

Yeah I get the work ethic concern but I don't think peugeotboi was ever after a comment from MS. If he wanted that, then he could have just sent off an email or picked up the phone to get the advertisement info. I will admit though, no point asking the same question twice when it's already been answered...

Yes cadetships do cost money in Aus peugotboi. No matter which airline it's for.

I can't see anything being asked on PPRuNe harming your application though. Not unless you state your name anyway!

[j3pipercub]

Well maybe pergeotboi showed up to the interview with a tell tale tie pin, or drove there in his very own Mi-16....

And what he said was silly, MS answered hIs question rather failry. and the newbie starts questioning why it costs???

j3

[Soar2384]

Purely a misunderstanding of the word "cadetship" I think. My point about peugeotboi not wanting to speak MS but actually the guys who have done the cadetship is that it's not whether the question was answered but who it was answered by. For example if you wanted to work for a different airline and started a thread to ask people whether it was a good airline or not and the CEO/GM wrote a reply saying that it was a great airline, you wouldn't exactly say you got your answer. I understand that the questions asked from peugeotboi wouldn't be the sought you'd ask your employer, but I can understand him asking fellow PPRuNer's. :ok:

[dudduddud]

heh yeah I'd park round the corner, or take the bus.

[mjohnstone]

Yer im currently in the cadetship, and im loving it. One of the best courses you will ever find. Im currently doing my CPL then going onto doing ATPL subjects then multi engine instrument rating. With 12 months on a Metro, 500+ hours ICUS and FO on a twin turbo-prop RPT.....CANT BEAT IT.... where else are you gaurenteed such work????...... I highly recomend it.....

[mjohnstone]

You honestly wont get far in life if you want to get payed for everything. To get things you need to do the hard yards, its not just going to magically appear on your front door step and you get off the couch and open the door and its there. The ones that have currently succeeded have put everything into it, and deserve all the credit.

[Van Gough]

Yer im currently in the cadetship, and im loving it. One of the best courses you will ever find. Im currently doing my CPL then going onto doing ATPL subjects then multi engine instrument rating. With 12 months on a Metro, 500+ hours ICUS and FO on a twin turbo-prop RPT.....CANT BEAT IT.... where else are you gaurenteed such work????...... I highly recomend it.....

good on ya!:ok: You will be well placed to buy your next job at Jetstar!

[The Green Goblin]

Looks like now that Rex, the link and Jetstar have cadet programs the quality of the participants in the Sharp program have somewhat slipped judging by the ramblings of the above poster.

[Pinky the pilot]

the quality of the participants in the Sharp program have somewhat slipped

Definitely in the standards of English language spelling and grammar at the least, TGG.

And yes it does matter, as one of my Employers in PNG once threw a resume from someone who actually met all requirements for a job with us into the `circular filing cabinet` purely because it was full of spelling and grammatical errors. His reasoning was that if the applicant was that careless with his English language skills he could also be just as careless with his flying.

Possibly a long bow was being drawn and the Boss even admitted so but he was not prepared to pay to bring this individual up from Australia and put him through all checks to line and find out the hard way.

[Roxy_Chick_1989]

Gotta love the probational PPRuNer's and their "insights"

[The Green Goblin]

Gotta love the probational PPRuNer's and their "insights"

Shall I bite? Or shall I leave it to J3 :E

[Jethro Gibbs]

So it has happened workers are now paying the employer :ugh:
Its come to this what a sad end :(

[The Green Goblin]

GG............She IS right though

Perhaps, but most of them are regular users who want to get their point across without tarnishing their usernames.

I started GG to do a bit of stirring, turns out I enjoyed the persona :}

http://www.samruby.com/Villains/GreenGoblinII/GreenGoblinDream.gif

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

12 months on a Metro, 500+ hours ICUS and FO on a twin turbo-prop RPT.....CANT BEAT IT

:ouch:

I'm sure the passengers will thank you for those difficult months you spent 'doing the hard yards' on your parents' dollar as they bask in all thine glory from the rear of a Merlin

FRQ CB

[Jethro Gibbs]

If your paying its not a job simple as that !:ugh:

[j3pipercub]

Shall I bite? Or shall I leave it to J3

My ears were burning. What GG was referring to Owen is the fact that not that long ago, Miss Roxy was that stirring Probationary with little to no clue.

I reckon old mjohnstone is legit. Who else would put their first initial and last name for a stirring username...

mjohnstone

To get things you need to do the hard yards, its not just going to magically appear on your front door step and you get off the couch and open the door and its there. The ones that have currently succeeded have put everything into it, and deserve all the credit.

That's what I've been doing wrong all these years... Here I was thinking that finding those 2 week old pizza shapes in between the couch cushions was hard work... You've got it soooo much harder, F/O on a single pilot certified aircraft... Technically an autopilot or Flight Attendant...

How did you come by the funds to pay your first years wage plus training?

j3

[bungeye]

Hey Mate. What do you do and what do you fly?? cheers

[mjohnstone]

Hey mate. Hate to break it to you but you got your facts wrong. RPT has to be two pilots, anything above 9 pax requires two pilots, therefor obviously Sharp require aCaptain and an FO. By the way does anyone who replied to my comments fly anything bigger than a single engine piston?:=:=:=

[The Green Goblin]

Hey mate. Hate to break it to you but you got your facts wrong. RPT has to be two pilots, anything above 9 pax requires two pilots, therefor obviously Sharp require aCaptain and an FO. By the way does anyone who replied to my comments fly anything bigger than a single engine piston?

Yep, was flying a Metro after 2 years in GA with 1500TT/500 multi command, ATPL requirements sitting pretty waiting for a command.

You'll have 500 hours on a metro with no command time, no prospect of getting a command and the reality that you may have to go and fly through the GA ranks on one of those dreaded 210s to get back to the Metro :}

[mjohnstone]

Like most people, saved up as much as possible and borrowed the rest from my parents, and plan to pay it back in the next 3-6 years, so how did you afford your carrer and how much did it cost?
cheer's

[Wanderin_dave]

mjohnstone. Read your regs more thoroughly. The Metro is certified single pilot. The operation isn't. There's a difference.

And maybe look around the forum....pretty easy to figure out what these guys fly -hint it ain't single engine piston

[j3pipercub]

By the way does anyone who replied to my comments fly anything bigger than a single engine piston?

I do love that question, the inference that we musn't know what we're talking about cos we might only be driving single engine pistons. Chances are that's where you'll be back to after you've finished the year driving that flash metro around, so don't let the smell of AVTUR get you too high there.

And in answer to your question, yes I do fly something bigger than a S/E piston, something with a MTOW of 6804 or 7485. Those figures ring a bell?

Like most people, saved up as much as possible and borrowed the rest from my parents, and plan to pay it back in the next 3-6 years, so how did you afford your carrer and how much did it cost?

I didn't have parents who I could afford to lend me money. I saved 65k over 4years. I must not be like most people...

j3

[The Green Goblin]

Quote:
Like most people, saved up as much as possible and borrowed the rest from my parents, and plan to pay it back in the next 3-6 years, so how did you afford your carrer and how much did it cost?
I didn't have parents who I could afford to lend me money. I saved 65k over 4years. I must not be like most people...

j3

Along with myself. I didn't log my first hour until I had the money in the bank and was 22.

Cadet schemes are not so glamorous when you need to pay for it yourself :}

[Jethro Gibbs]

If your paying its not a job :ugh:god how hard is this to work out if your paying its a course of some sort NOT A JOB.

[mjohnstone]

Actually wrong, you do get prospects of command time. 50%

[Jethro Gibbs]

You dont PAY for a job :ugh:

[Jethro Gibbs]

Operators these days must be laughing straight to the bank!
Yeah cause they now have people wanting to pay them for a job.
As victor meldrew said I don't believe it !

[asw28-866]

Three simple guides to being in a commercial flying job:

1) if YOU pay for the endorsement, it's not a job

2) if YOU pay for the CIR renewals, base checks, it's not a job

3) If YOU ever shell out a dollar for sitting in the aircraft, it's not a job

This industry is hard enough to earn a living wage in without cashed up individuals buying the seat.

Rant over.

And yes my ride only has a MTOW of 4110Kg so what do I know?

[mjohnstone]

ROXY CHICK???
That's stupid, tell me whats wrong with starting with a regional airline, you have to to start small and work your way up. Your failing to understand the point. Its not always the best way to start with the big airlines, i know someone who did the Qantas cadetship ( sounds rather impressive ) over a year ago, and he hasn't got a job. He is still on the list waiting. Not a favourable situation. So explain what you think the best way to get up to the airlines.
Cheers

[mjohnstone]

You pay for the 15 months training, you dont pay for the job.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gif

[Jethro Gibbs]

Do you have a Job in the end are there any real paying jobs for your $ payed.

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Agree with Rox. MJohnston you just don't know how to post (or maybe you do and you're actually just a twit).

You definitely need to read the Regs, and not just the ones Sharp photocopy for you. (RPT must be two pilots??? Elaborate.)

I'd love to see you fly a few of the single engine pistons around the joint and do it to a proper standard. The number of engines and your machine's MTOW are not direct correlations to your skill or worth as a pilot... even if they give you a cool hat to wear.

Nighty night.

FRQ CB

[peugeotboi]

Some people are very fortunate to have the funds for a cadetship and some are unfortunate.

If you have to ask your parents for money, there's nothing wrong with that.

I may not know to much about the Aviation industry, but its fair to say that it doesn't take time to realise how hard the industry is, You need to be hungry to survive and succeeded.

So at the end of the day everyone chooses different paths in the industry and we need to support one another, to many negatives.

Safe Flying!!

[scarediecat]

Following the recent advertising for pilots at Sharp Airlines, just wondering if any one has been invited for an interview. I know a couple of experienced guys (5000+hrs turbine etc) who applied but unfortunately for them they did'nt get invited for an interview?

[PLovett]

I know a couple of experienced guys (5000+hrs turbine etc) who applied but unfortunately for them they did'nt get invited for an interview?

Well, that makes me feel better then. I knew I should have buttonholed MS about those interviews at Flinders Island when I had the chance. :ugh:

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

Some people are very fortunate to have the funds for a cadetship and some are unfortunate. What an incredibly profound statement!
If you have to ask your parents for money, there's nothing wrong with that.There is everything wrong with asking Mumsy and Dadsy if they can buy you a shiny turboprop job
I may not know to much about the Aviation industryThen shut your cake-hole
but its fair to say that it doesn't take time to realise how hard the industry is, You need to be hungry to survive and succeeded.
You're the kind of guy who'd climb over a baby to get to the emergency exit first in a crash.
So at the end of the day everyone chooses different paths in the industry and we need to support one another, to many negatives. What you propose is the furthest thing from supporting one another, we already have a Federation (http://www.pprune.org/www.afap.org.au) (et (http://www.pprune.org/www.twu.com.au) al (http://www.pprune.org/www.aipa.org.au)) for that (and 'to many negatives...what'; that's a preposition, Peugeot Boy. Then again maybe that was a Freudian slip; let's get rid of the comma: "we need to support one another to many negatives." What you propose is one hell of a fast way to support each other to some pretty dire negatives).
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: sydney
Age: 20
Posts: 15


Come back when you've got a clue, son (sorry, you'll have to wait as Mumsy and Dadsy can't buy you one of those).
Safe Flying!!Good luck to the poor souls who're stuck as your passengers when you reach that grand total of 250 hours.

Rant far from over,

FRQ CB

[Soar2384]

Seriously FRQ to have that much energy to write all that, I think you need to lay off the red bull! Here, let me help you get started on pulling my post apart.

Seriously

"S" must equal stupid, "e" must equal easy, "r" must equal rediculous, "i" must equal idiot...

I mean seriously mate, what's the point? :rolleyes:

[das Uber Soldat]

Helps if you spelled ridiculous correctly.

I'm on board with FRQ. The frustration generated amongst pilots by kids buying fake jobs (a metro is a single pilot aircraft, so sitting in the right seat is glorified day care) then getting onto pprune proclaiming its a legitimate path is significant.

Apart from the destruction of T & C's that they are unwittingly promoting, they don't understand just how clueless they are at 250 hours. Or even 1000 hours.

In my eyes these schemes, including the rex and jet* schemes, are a cancer.

[bizzybody]

there we go

When all else fail bring on the spelling police to shoot someone down

[das Uber Soldat]

Your post would make sense Bizz if I had simply corrected his spelling and then wandered off without addressing any of the issues.

:rolleyes:

I actually find a level of irony in the misspelling. The absurdity of inexperienced and ignorant individuals lecturing effectively their polar opposites whilst simultaneously demonstrating their ineptness is fairly amusing. Or perhaps the 'I' and 'E' keys are like right next to each other on his super cadet keyboard.

:ok:

[Soar2384]

Um, who said I was a cadet? Is there an assumption that I work for Sharp as well? In fact I will go to the extent of saying that I don't agree with cadetships. As you pointed out das, it makes it easy for airlines to reduce T's & C's. What do you believe you would achieve in snapping at everyone who disagrees with your way of thinking? Do you believe that managment are going to be listening and say "oh right, a pilot doesn't like that we do a cadetship. We'd better shut it down then!" Do you believe that people coming into the industry are not going to apply for a cadetship because of what someone says here on PPRuNe? So back to my original point, what's the point?

And in regards to my spelling das, did you understand what I meant? It's a chat site, not a newspaper article so let's just stick to the point on this shall we?

[das Uber Soldat]

edit; Actually my post was too mean. Never mind.

I get your point but I am still keen to try to dissuade people who may not necessarily be aware of the pit falls of these cadet schemes to put a bit more thought into the long term situation they are placing themselves in.

[Roxy_Chick_1989]

To take a positive look on these cadet scheme, and no I am not considering the aformentioned schemes, there is an attraction to the fact that graduates will have potential for sustained employment upon course completion. For many people simply going the traditional flying school route, the prospect of getting any flying job upon completion is certainly a consideration, not to add the fact that those going the traditional route often hear the age-old story of John Smith who paid $70k for all his ratings and licenses, went in search of a first job and continually missed out season after season. Now tell me who is in the favourably position, the bloke who is sitting around on Seek trying to get a job at a servo after a $70k loss, or the guy who paid $100k, and is employed to fly, with prospects (however narrow, prospects none the less)

:confused:

[das Uber Soldat]

Yeh, lets ignore the impact on the industry. He's got a jet job! Sure he's being paid less than a servo attendant.

Infact, I think we should introduce these schemes in all professions! Brain surgeon cadet ship! Apply now, pay $150 grand but you're let loose on real patients after 5 months training on 22 grand a year for the next 7 years!

PERFECT. WHAT COULD GO WRONG.

Additionally, I wasn't aware that the cadet ships offered guaranteed employment at the end of the training period. Has this changed?

I haven't met any competent and dedicated pilot that was unable to get a job. Those who struggled were often the ones with a poor attitude or were unwilling to make the effort to go where the work was. I think your post is vapid.

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

I haven't met any competent and dedicated pilot that was unable to get a job. Those who struggled were often the ones with a poor attitude or were unwilling to make the effort to go where the work was. I think your post is vapid.
Quite true, das. I haven't thought of it in this light before but you certainly hit the nail on the head. Sure it's tough but once you get a few CHTR hours in a C206 then you can expect to be able to find a ladder to climb somewhere around the country. (Or you could go to the bank and buy an escalator.)

FRQ CB

PS Whilst not everything, spelling certainly does matter.

[kalavo]

Infact, I think we should introduce these schemes in all professions! Brain surgeon cadet ship! Apply now, pay $150 grand but you're let loose on real patients after 5 months training on 22 grand a year for the next 7 years!

Actually a similar thing is happening in the medical profession. Previously uni placements were only available to those with a sufficiently high TER and passing the UMAT test. A number of placements were also made available for full fee paying overseas students, which resulted in complaints that little Jimmy couldn't pass the UMAT test or didn't do so well at school but still wanted to be a Doctor.

So the universities have since opened up placements for full fee paying local students who don't meet the TER/UMAT requirements. HECS isn't available for these slots, but pay $150 grand and... you get the picture.

[Col Miner]

Just a question to all those out there complaining about cadetships or people buying positions. Didn't you all at some point "pay" for your license and other qualifications?
I would honestly like to know how anyone can afford to pay the $70 000+ required these days? That is anyone not in the position of still living with their parents with no living expenses while they do it (I am not having a go at these people either, half their luck I say) I would just like to know how you come up with that sort of money? It isn't hard to see the attraction of a cadetship that gives an option to pay this off over a bit of time (not sure of the Sharp one in question but I know REX and Jet Star allow this).

[kingRB]

I would honestly like to know how anyone can afford to pay the $70 000+ required these days? That is anyone not in the position of still living with their parents with no living expenses while they do it I would just like to know how you come up with that sort of money?Its called hard work and determination mate. If you really want it, you will go out and make it happen. Go and find employment in another line of work. I did it, thousands of others have done it before me. It might take quite a few years to achieve it.... But how badly do you want it?

Working toward a goal like that will give you perspective and a different outlook toward life that the silver spoon cadetship path does not provide. It also doesn't undermine T&C's for the rest of the industry while you do it.

[SpyderPig]

Ditto that. If you really want to fly for a living you will appreciate it so much more if you work hard to achieve your goals. Besides, it's the journey not the destination that makes it interesting!

I don't live at home and work in order to pay for my CPL. Sure it means less nights at the pub with the lads, but if you really want it you can make it work. 2nd jobs are not uncommon even for non flying folks these days.

I don't know much about the Sharp program except that I couldn't afford it. But the other cadetships these days are just a way to undermine the conditions of the industry and give false hope to those who in my opinion are misguided enough to sign up for them.

This has been done to death on here, hit the search button, grab a beer and be enlightened lol :cool: