Where to do MECIR

[amateur]

Hi guys i was just wondering if anyone had heard anything good about National Aerospace training. Im interested in their IFR Flightline program The programme includes:

http://www.nationalaerospace.net/+common/images/bullet/bullet.gifA Multi Engine Command Instrument Ratinghttp://www.nationalaerospace.net/+common/images/bullet/bullet.gif2 Multi Engine type ratings (C310 and either PA31 or C402)http://www.nationalaerospace.net/+common/images/bullet/bullet.gif30 hours Multi engine ICUS (15 hours on each type)http://www.nationalaerospace.net/+common/images/bullet/bullet.gif30 hours Cessna 210 ICUS time
ICUS time is conducted as an operational line pilot with DirectAir Charter under the guidance of an experienced Captain at their bases in Alice Springs or Darwin providing valuable experience in flying in outback conditions.

Im tossing up between these guys or Ad Astral. NATs affiliation with DirectAir is appealing as i already have a job flying single engines and i really want to get my foot in the door with a company flying twins. What do you guys think, and do you know of any other training places doing MECIR that are affiliated with a company?

cheers

[biggles7374]

Hi Amateur

It is important that you are careful to do your research properly when choosing a school to do your MECIR. Word of mouth is an important consideration from previous students rather than what the sales spiel a company will give you.

This is especially important for courses that you have to pay upfront for.

You should consider, visit the school and ask questions about:

Number of ME / IF TA Instructors
Instructor to student ratio and timetable
Hours of operation
The aids you will get endorsed on
The type and quality of the aircraft and sims including level of instrumentation fitted and serviceable

....and always read the small print carefully about what is included and what is not

If cost is important to you then consider not only the cost of the course but the length of time you will have to pay for living expenses whilst doing the course and without an income. Again get some personal experiences from previous students and don't always assume that the timescales will be as it says in the glossy brochure or flashy website!!!

In theory the NAT course is a good proposition but do not allow the lure of limited multi engined experience to tunnell your vision away from just doing a straight MECIR rating....especially as you already have a single gig which you would probably have to give up!!

I know a guy who did a straight MECIR with Johnston Aviation at Pt Macquarie and he was in and out in 4 weeks with a licence full to bursting of aid endorsements (including GNSS).

One last piece of advice, if you have to pay upfront for a course (which I have serious reservations about) pay by credit card - even if it means paying a surcharge as it will give you an extra degree of protection should things go wrong!!

Biggles

[intheozone22]

Hi

Having done this course, I had a very bad time with NAT but don't let me put you off :ugh:. Make sure you ask the questions that Biggles7374 hints at.

The time scale that they told me was well out of proportion. I AM NOT JOKING OR EXAGERATING WHEN I SAY IT HAS COST ME over $10,000 MORE THAN I BUGETED FOR AFTER GETING SCREWED ABOUT!!
I started in April 09 and have still not got up to darwin for the ICUS part of the course. (6 weeks Yeah right) Ask to speak to one student that did the course in the time promised.

Aircraft are constantly in maintainance and my whole CIR course was conducted in aircraft with out working auto pilots.

In theory this sounds like a great course but be warned!!!! YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO GET YOUR MONEY BACK IF YOU CHANGE YOUR MIND!!!!!

I don't want to bag NAT too much in public. So I will give you a couple more options

Check out the ROYAL QUEENSLAND AERO CLUB / Airline Academy of Australia. they have just bought quite a few new aircraft including C172S (garmin 1000 glass cockpit), C210, C206, And a Barron for instrument training. I think they charge $16,000 for the MECIR with the whole flying part of the course done in a Barron. Great Instructors, I did my CPL there and the Instructors are great and living in Brisbane is awesome (they also have some accomodation available at very reasonable costs)

Or in NSW, AIR NSW very nice Duchess and a great instructor at wollongong airport. I know that they can do a course considerably cheaper than NAT with much cheaper landing fees at YWOL, plus you can live on the beach and much cheaper living costs than many places. They also do all the coast watch for Sydneys beaches and have lots of aircraft that you may be able to work out some ICUS time in.

I wish you all the best.

[The Green Goblin]

All the above is true regarding NAT plus you will get dicked around in Darwin as most of the flights are full and not everyone can give ICUS.

Paying for accommodation in Darwin plus being dicked around without any flights being a lacky and cleaning the toilets is not a way to spend your CIR training.

Go to Ad-Astral and don't look back.

[Capt Fathom]

he was in and out in 4 weeks with a licence full to bursting of aid endorsements (including GNSS).

Ahh. Jack of all trades, master of none! :uhoh:

[amateur]

Ooooh dagnammit NATs ad looked so good on its glossy paper:sad: I shall take your word for it tho. Unless anyone has anything good to say about it.....anyone?........anyone at all? :rolleyes:

[Aerohooligan]

It's probably well out of your way, but if you want a quality MECIR, I highly recommend Air Gold Coast located at, wait for it...the Gold Coast. The instructors delivered personalised, super-professional service and were always friendly, always willing to go the extra mile to help out.

I sound like a brochure, but please don't get me wrong. I don't work for the company. I did mine with them in November last year and went on to work for a charter company in Darwin. I recommend them because they were able to meet all of my goals (completion in five weeks, all-aids endorsed, not unreasonable pricing) and are one of the best GA companies I've had the pleasure of flying with. The owner is really approachable and at one stage even worked out a 'holding rate' for us when we were held by ATC waiting for the YBBN ILS. I came out with ILS/LLZ, VOR, NDB, DGA, RNAV approvals and enough night hours and experience to exercise the priveleges of a night rating.

I'm not sure how things have gone in the 9 months since I finished, but I still highly recommend giving them a call and seeing what they can arrange, if you don't mind living at one of the country's most beautiful beaches for a little while. :ok: A mate of mine did his at the same place a couple of months later and was able to score some 210 time as well. Accomodation on the Goldie can be found reasonably cheap prior to the Christmas season starting, but make it sooner rather than later if you do go.

Just my $0.02, if you want to know anything else please feel free to PM me. :)

[havick]

Johnstone at Port Mac, NSW.. Can't beat em for timely and professional service.. They have a very student focussed approach, not just money grabbing and then putting you on the backburner like many other companies out there.

[Baldnfat]

Have heard only good things about Ad Astral

[training wheels]

try CON AIR at essendon airport.

Who's CON AIR?? As far as I know, there are only three schools at Essendon who offer MECIR training.

[Fonz121]

Thats probably not the best thought out name.

[intheozone22]

The guys name is Con. He is a great instructor! don't know much about his opperation though

[amateur]

Just wanted to thank everyone who posted- will definetely take your views into consideration when making the final desicion. feel free to keep posting. You're all legends:ok:

[training wheels]

ConAir Aviation (http://conairaviation.com.au/)

Ok,thanks for that mate. Are they the ones who operate the Dutches VH-TTB parked outside the AustralasianJet hangars at Essendon?

[XX-ANY]

So what is it with with them wanting payment up front for IR's?

[AnyGivenSunday99]

John Newby at Inverell Aviation. No questions asked. Best value for money, great bloke, exceptional aircraft.

[Flying Bear]

Can't say I can actually recommend any organisation emphatically for flying training - I have not been directly involved in the flying school scene for quite a while but have managed the training of a few young pilots and have seen the products of many training schools when I conduct renewals / proficiency checks.

Sad state of affairs for the domestic flying training industry, I reckon.

I can say, though:

Stay away from National Aerospace Training, DirectAir or any iteration of that organisation. All the above comments I have observed to be true, and more...

Same goes for Flight Training Australia / AV8 or whatever they call themselves these days at Archerfield Airport - used to have a great reputation and be a good school, but absolutely not the same beast since Humphrey passed away.

Both are the epitome of a flying school that will take your money fast, but give you nothing of value.

I suggest that you take a trip, visit several organisations, do a comparison in your head and go with the one that appears most genuine, with tidy aircraft and staff who will actually spend some time with you explaining their "wares" and most of all - makes you feel comfortable.

Be wary of the school that offers promises of jobs / ICUS, etc as a selling point for their course. Usually this is B/S.

Suggestions of places to look at:

Royal QLD Aero Club, Redcliffe Aero Club, Johnston Aviation, Ad Astral, Barrier Aviation, Bob Harris in Innisfail.

Happy hunting.

[biggles7374]

Hi XX-ANY

In my opinion any company, flying or otherwise that asks for payment upfront is hiding something, either:

The company is in financial difficulty and is using the upfront payment to fund its working capital, or

its service is so bad that it knows that once you get the product or receive the service you will not want to pay for it. The company then attempts to hide behind flimsy terms and conditions to justify not giving a refund or pockles the figures to show that a refund is minimal. If crisis talks break down at this point your only real option is redress through the Court system.

I re-iterate my earlier advice, carefully read the small print and always always pay by credit card, even if there is a 1% surcharge, if the Company goes bust or does not deliver then you should be able to get some or all of your money back through the dispute and chargeback system run by VISA / Mastercard.

If the Company will not accept Credit Card payment then ask yourself why if they normally do. Hopefully the alarm bells will be ringing!!!!!

Biggles

[manymak]

Steve Pearce at Peter Bini AFT at MMB. Surprised no one had mentioned him already. All round nice guy, excellent 4 week program will all aids and good value for money.

Only bad thing is he is booked solid for 2-3 months ahead.

[biggles7374]

Does Peter Bini do a GNSS endorsement, if so what aircraft?

Cheers

[777WakeTurbz]

I would strongly recommend Johnson Aviation, fantastic setup and program, great sims and aircraft. And if you do go you should definitely stay in the pilot house if they still have it. You meet and get to know some great people who you will no doubt keep in touch with well after the course is finished. :ok:

[Jamair]

I have used and am happy to recommend Avalon Aviation (Rick Wedgewood) at Caboolture, for PIFR, CIR, ME Initial and Kangaroo Dodging (basic & Advanced - a unique Caboolture program - believe Jabawocky is a graduate....:E).

[jonobishop]

Biggles - you can get a MECIR with all the meaty bits - including a GPS RNAV approval at "Steve Pearce Advanced Flight Training" (or Bini's!) They have two PA44's, one with a Garmin 430, the other a KLN89B.

If you wanted to splash out, their Baron might be available these days too... maybe?

[biggles7374]

Thanks

Just want to add a GNSS endorsement.

Biggles

[tuaapache]

Hi,
I am e-mailing to enquire about the MECIR training. I am a CASA CPL holder with zero hours night flying and I would like to get some information about the course.
Here are my questions:
1.What is the total cost of training for MECIR including night flying? (I have no intention to get the night rating)
2.What is the average amount of time for most people to finish the course?
3.Is the ground school included in the MECIR training or it is available on request?
4.How often will I get to fly per week?
5.How are the instructors and aircraft availability?
6.What aircraft will I be training in?
7.How is the weather there and does the weather affect the training much?
8.Is there an accommodation nearby that is in a walking distance to the school?
9.Will I receive a diploma upon completion of my training?
10.What is the instructor/student ratio?
11.Is it a pay as you go or one lumpsump?
12. Is all the training done in the twins or I have to do some IFR time in a single?
Cheers

[PA39]

Rick wedgwood

[MakeItHappenCaptain]

I thought we'ed introduced a new facet to PPRuNe, PeePeeMail.:}