Is it really that...?

[ScottishSteve]

My enthusiasm for hopefully joining the RAF after UAS is faltering, due to listening to what is said on this forum. Is being dumbartoned so bad?Crappy gear? Crappy conditions? No respect?

Is it all true? Even if it is, do some of us have to make the sacrifice anyway and put up with it?

Thanks in advance for your most revered opinions

Steve

[D-IFF_ident]

The flying is generally great.

The standard of living is great.

The management is great.

[ 11 January 2002: Message edited by: D-IFF_ident ]</p>

[solotk]

You have to be in it to moan your arse off about it....

My advice? Join <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

Tony

[fobotcso]

SS, by all means read this stuff and join in when you want to, but for heaven's sake don't let it influence any decisions you make about your future life.

Read the Red Stuff at the bottom of the page. There are mischief makers about.

Realise that the percentage of Serving personnel who come here is very small indeed.

It is in the nature of Service personnel (and any other peer group from building workers to Members of Parliament) that they will grumble about their conditions of work and their superiors. When they stop complaining, and sit in corners brooding silently, then you should begin to worry.

Join the Forces? If it's your passion, go for it. If you think it might be a cushy way to spend a few years, hop it.

The life you are living now is not a rehearsal for some future main event. This is it; fill it with good memories.

[ 09 January 2002: Message edited by: fobotcso ]</p>

[BEagle]

Whilst you will find a number of moans and whinges on these pages, the basic military flying lifestyle is what you make of it. You will succeed only through your own effort and energy, no matter which genre of aircraft you end up flying.

Many of our aircraft are, shall we say, somewhat elderly. However, that means that you'll be flying and working in an atmosphere of 'can do - will do' rather than with a bunch of 'what's in it for me' types.

For sure you won't make silly money, but if you're prepared to take the rough with the smooth the satisfaction you will get is unique. I used to remind those who moaned about a night stop in the transit accommodation at Goose (which is actually pretty darned good fun - beer, pizza and banter in the bar with some very good mates) that they could be spending a few days in Hawaii next! Beats the hell out of Lootnairpawt to Oybeetha with a cargo of shell suited lager louts - even if their ac is rather more Gucci!

Incidentally, whilst you may see the odd piece of frustration on here manifesting itself (and which may, on occasion, have gone rather too far, mea culpa!), the overwhelming majority of our youngsters relish the freedom and lifestyle which they have on their squadrons - as do many of the 'oldsters', of course. 'Management' does, in fact, do its very best to improve matters whenever it feasibly can - honest!; frequently such efforts are unseen and unheard and in a world where people are rather swift to chide and slow to bless, you will often read somewhat unbalanced views on this site as you will be more likely to hear about complaints raised than read about solutions achieved. Take a pinch of salt with what you read and don't think twice about it; join to fly and enjoy the challenge of real flying rather than the humdrum existence of airline flying - although I suppose that you can always do that later in life if you really must....

Go on....

Go on, go on....

Go on, go on, go on....

You'll always kick yourself if you didn't give it your best try!! And it's still fun, we've got some very interesting aircraft coming in over the next decade - get an attachment to a sqn arranged through your UAS and see what you could be doing soon!!

[ 09 January 2002: Message edited by: BEagle ]</p>

[scroggs]

I had a great time in the RAF. Sure, I moaned a bit in the last couple of years of my 22 completed (probably not as much as the RAF moaned about me!), but the flying was excellent, the social life still exceptional, and the opportunities way eclipsed anything outside.
I now fly 747s for my living. I don't earn significantly more than I did in the RAF, and I have a lot less fun. But I do have a (slightly) more stable and predictable life which suits my domestic responsibilities. Given different circumstances, and a bullet-proof liver, I'd be back tomorrow!

[LambJalfraezi]

Fobotsco

You say that the percentage of serving personnel on this forum is small, and then go on to state that we should worry when people stop complaining....Oh dear methinks - are we in dire straits?

I am on my 3rd frontline tour. My aircraft is ancient and works when it feels like it, as long as there isn't a 'y' in the day. My married quarter is appalling and would not be fit for habitation in the civvy world (No I'm not joking). My career management is what I manage to make it, as the RAF does not give a to*s. My pay is a fraction of a civvy with my qualifications...shall I go on?

Oh all right I will. I have flown over 200 frontline Ops - and have done things that most civvy pilots would simply not believe. Along the way I have made some memories that will last my lifetime, and have some great barroom stories! I have made some of the best friends...probably the best friends...I've ever had. The pay is awful, but I survive, and I get to do what I love, day in - day out. I still get up in the morning and relish the thought of going to work. When that goes away, then so will I, but it hasn't yet.

It ain't perfect...far from it - but it's still heads and shoulders the best job I know - and don't listen to the civvy's who weren't in...they're just jealous of those who are not just able to operate an aircraft, but can fly one too.

When you are old and grey and telling stories to your mates, I strongly suspect that it will be better to regret the things that you did than the things that you didn't. I live my life by this, and only time will tell if I was right, but I'm having a hell of a ride along the way.

[Adastral]

SS

Don't be put off by the whinges and moans on the forum. If we can't complain here, then where can we complain?!!

With regard to the general critisms you read, I would be most upset if we stopped making them and simply put up with poor management and the multitude of bad decisions. The RAF is manned by (generally) intelligent people - we should expect and demand high standards in all areas.

Sadly, the size (or lack of it!) of the purse is the ultimate consideration across the board. So we don't have the best kit, or the best pay, or the best allowances.

So, if you want to embark on a challenging career, see a bit of the world and live in a tent from time to time, fly fast jets.

If you want to cruise round the world, stay in posh hotels and get a wad of allowances - fly multi-engines!! (Just kidding BEagle!!!)

Seriously, its what you make it. But now could be as good a time as any to join - you'll not know any better!!

Best of luck!

[ScottishSteve]

thanks everyone for your somewhat better motivation than the current advert running on TV!

is it weird then Adastral that I dont wanna fly FJ? I've always wanted to fly Multi-Engine!

thanks again

Steve

[Peter Skellan]

If they will let you in then JOIN. You will never have more fun in aviation.

PS

[Alf Aworna]

Best job in the world! Its challenging, has variety, stacks of travel and you meet and work with some great people. Whatever you fly you will do and see things that you cannot do/see in the civvy flying world. I would thoroughly recommend it- remember if you don't make it you can always leave and pay for an ATPL, you can't do it the other way round. But if you don't try you'll never know....... Don't come moaning back to us in 10 years time now, you know what the right decision is!

[bootscooter]

A mere 6 Years in, whinging a lot, but still loving it. I wouldn't want to do anything else.

[You want it when?]

Jeremiah PuddleDuck (I think) tempted me to make some comments on civilian pay etc.. within non flying but well paid IT roles. They apparently compared favourably with a Flight Lieutenant on flight pay but without the benefits of school fees and subsidised housing.

Coming from a RAF family, I regret not joining, and think I would have been happy to join as Ground Services but at the time if I couldn't fly then I didn't want to play. I think that was a mistake which given my time again I would be happy to correct.

As someone said earlier - it's your life, if you want to do it then get out there and give it a damm good try. It's not a rehearsal - better to have memories than regrets.

And KBF1 turn you blasted email on.

[ScottishSteve]

thanks again. after speaking to my QFI-who loves flying (and aerobatics :) )i've decided to try and get in. also a cab driver was whinging tonight about how after 16 years of driving, hes fed up.

Cheers

Steve

[BEagle]

Glad to hear that you've taken the plunge, chum! Try to get a summer placement with a squadron; whilst I can certainly tell you that the day-to-day flying and lifestyle of new VC10 pilots has never been more varied and interesting, don't limit your horizons to pre-conceived notions of any one fleet or aircraft genre. We've got EF, JSF, A400M, Nim Y2K+, FSTA, ASTOR all on the horizon.....lucky git - it'll sure beat the RHS of an orange 737 as a way to go!!

[Ralf Wiggum]

SS,

Life isn't really that simple. We need somewhere to sound off about the bad times and add a bit of friendly banter amongst our own. The good times outnumber the bad, so do what you have to do.

We all regret joining sometimes, but I'm sure we'll all miss it when we leave. One thing though, the friendships made in the job far outclass anything in civvy street, especially when they are made during difficult times such as OOAs.

[augustus]

It's only because we do care about our service that we moan. We know it can be done better given more funding etc., but that doesn't mean that we don't love it. Flying is one of the best things there is and operational flying, with some of the best friends you will meet, blows civvy street away. If you want it go for it.