Cessna 310 advice sought

[salmabambi]

Hi to all .... I was initially looking at operating a Cessna 206 on oversized tyres until I saw the falling prices of the 310's. I have owned a 310 before and loved it but it was always flown off / to paved runways ( with the exception of a couple of landings at Panshanger - on their grass strip ) ... but now I am looking to operate from a firm unmade dirt strip ---- will be grass later -- in a hot climate with upto 6 on board and wonderd how the 310 would cope ?. Ground clearence will certainly not be a problem !!!, but will the dangley stuff take the strain ???--- and are there any other pitfalls to look out for ??.
If anyone has operated a 310 ( 3 bladed prop's and I0-470's - 260hp a side ) in similar conditions any info / advice would be gratefully recieved.

Thanks again

Steve

[Big Pistons Forever]

Operating a twin of an unpaved strip is not that big a deal as long as the strip has a firm surface and the proper procedures are used to prevent damage and should only require minimal extra maintainance. The issue is the lenght of the runway. The 310 design was optimized to fly high and fast, not operate from short runways. Loaded up to the gills on a hot day I personally would not want to see less than 3000 ft of useable runway, more if there are significant obsatacles. Also there is a reason 310's are so cheap. It is because they can be very expensive to maintain and operate.
It seems to me your thought of using a C206, an airplane optimized to carry heavy loads out of short,rough strips, may be the better option

[Dupre]

My company used to operate a C310 off dirt and grass strips... some of them fairly rough. It coped very well and we had no issues. It can haul the same load as a C206 but obviously at a higher speed and commensurately greater cost.

How hot are we talking? The strips we were operating from would get to around 45 degrees in the hot season but it is a very dry heat - no humidity to reduce air density even further.

[Doodlebug]

Hello Steve.
I have time in hot-and-high and on dirt on both long- and short-nosed 310's. You specifically ask about the gear: Yes, looks a bit spindly, doesn't it? But I went into countless bush-strips with 310's and boy did the gear take a clobbering! Never had a problem, even the time when I went sideways for a bit due to a landing on a muddy strip. The maintenance costs of the undercarriage are relatively high, though. (but as an ex-owner you will know this)
While I cannot recall specific numbers we never had runway-length issues, even before the VG kit hit the shelves. These days all 310's seem to have them fitted anyway, and they do make a difference. Heating never works well. Doorseals usually let go fairly soon. Hardly ever saw a properly functioning autopilot. The short-nose will have weight-and-balance issues if you try to load 5 pax and any amount of fuel. A friend came home on one engine in a short-nose, 4 pax, maintained at around 7000' if I recall correctly. Lovely aircraft, fast and rugged, though I don't envy you your AVGAS-bills! Where will you be flying it?

[salmabambi]

Thanks to all who have replied ... I appreciate the time taken.

I am looking at a venture in Madagasga in the Indian Ocean ... so yes it will get hot and humid, even at height down to sea level. Fuel prices in any venture are always a big concern, but at least they are cheaper than the sky-high european rates ... according to Shell Petroleum anyway !!.
I was initially looking at a 310Q model but perhaps the T310R would be a better choice - with Turbo's to help out a little ????. I mentioned seating 6 ... but to be fair I will be lucky to sit 4 maybe 5 on each trip ( including the pilot ).

I operated privatly a '68 310 for a couple of years in the UK as a hack for myself ... and I used it to obtain my commercial -- hiring a suitable instructor made the cost of the course so much cheaper - especially when you take into account the re-sale value of the aircraft. And yes -- no autopilot - actually it had been removed -- and poor door seals ... but man did it fly. It was purchased in Little Rock arkansas and ferried to the UK for me.. just trimmed and flown for hours hands off .... according to the ferry pilot ... and without using the heater which did work .. but hey who wants a fire in the nose that you cannot get too !!.

Hey who I am kidding ... the C206 is by far the better choice -- but the 310 is such a pretty airplane. Walking from the ramp what would you rather see ???????. Although the 310 is a sod to get into the back seats !!!.

Thanks again to all that took the time to reply ... Cheers I appreciate it.

Steve

[Doodlebug]

Welcome. But after reading your last post I must add that all operators I knew were very wary of turbos. Unless it's a one-pilot operation who really knows his stuff you'd be in for a lot of financial pain.

Once I had difficulties cranking a 210 chartered by this engineer whom I flew regularly. Got the ok from the boss to take a 310 instead. Now this engineer, a customer of ours for years, had never hired a twin. When I presented it to him with a 'after you' flourish, he proceeded, much to my amusement, to board(wriggle!) into the aft seats via the narrow baggage door behind the starboard wing! Apparently he hadn't seen the main door! Keeping my expression deadpan I carefully closed the baggage door after him and then got in via the main door. He didn't comment and neither did I :p

Madagascar, eh? Read an article by a missionary who 'spreads the word' down there in a 'van. The flying appears to be tremendous, and faith aside they do seem to be making a very real contribution to the appallingly poor people in some of the more remote areas there. Keep us updated!

[salmabambi]

The only real hassel I had with my 310 was despite being mid-life engines the right awalys used considerably more oil than the left ...but was much easier to start !!. The only occasion I have ever had of shutting down an engine - other than when taking my twin rating - was just after I had started the take-off run in the 310 when a quick check showed zero oil pressure in the right. I stopped quickly ... and only having a couple of hours twin time on the type shut the right down while coming to a stop. Yep .... spent the next 10 minutes taxing in complete right hand circles !!!!!. On thing you cannot do in a 310 is to taxi on one engine .... yep it will climb ( just ) loaded on one -- get you to where you are going on one .... but taxi -- no way!!. Having felt an idiot for long enough I called for a tow.
An ageing aircraft with an ageing pilot being towed by an ageing Landrover ... sounds about right !!!.
Never did find what cause the zero pressure reading - checked and later re-started without any problem and indeed went for nearly 180 hours after that without problem. When I sold it I believe it went to Hungary as part of an Air-Taxi fleet.

Steve

[johnriketes]

Turbochargers. They must be handled with great care as DB mentioned, especially after landing and before shut down. They must be run down for the correct duration and then 30 sec's. T/C's on a single are even more critical as, if the t/c is lost, you probably wont maintain altitude. Worth remembering that.

If you are not already aware propellers and stones dont mix. Best is no standing start t/o's at full power before brake release for e.g.. Also do the run up (with extreme care) on the run, on the strip if it is stony, on the move controlling speed with the brakes. If you get good at it you wont even need the brakes. You will save yourself propellers believe me. Any Other way and you are doing a t/o without knowing what damage you have on the propeller before that t/o.

Tail wheel of course not such a problem.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[plugster]

Have you ever tried a Cessna T303? Can haul 6 persons from unmade strips, trailing link gear, turbocharged, good performance.

[A10Warthog]

Why not take the step up to the Cessna Caravan, great short field performance , haul 1500kg. And when I flew in the states, I heard rumors about some issues with the Cessna 310 exhaust outlet. Corrosion on the aft spars, etc...

anyways, good luck on your project.

[340drvr]

I've known a few operators using 310s from rough strips, none had particular trouble with the landing gear.
I know you asked about the 310, but at a quick glance, it doesn't sound like that would be a good choice for your mission. You didn't say how far/ where your typical trip will be...short hops, or long travelling trips? If short hops are the norm, I'd sure try to figure how to stay away from the turbocharged engines, they don't like 10-minute legs very well. You mentioned hot weather, but unless you're also at higher-elevation fields, turbos would not be worth the etxra fuss.
the C206 sure sounds like a better choice, but if you need the second engine, how about considering a BN Islander?

[Piltdown Man]

Take the 206 option if available. Better rough field performance, better engine failure rates, simpler to fly, less logistics and cheaper to run, similar payload. OK, so it's slower - but will the extra speed be so appreciated by the customers that they'll pay more?

PM

[Der absolute Hammer]

Hardly need perhaps to point out that Madagascar is huge, an awesome place to fly over at 33kft-it goes on for a long time and it looks very hostile aviation country- and that search and rescue is practically non existent. I've flown the 310s in southern Africa/Namibia and the BN Islander off bush and beach strips along the wild coast-a while ago though but on an ICAO licence. I'd rather have the Islander in Madagascar, apart from anything else, it would be cooler and easier to access pilot, pax and payload. But no particular problems with the 310, hot and high except that it is a road runner. 206, sure, every time provided the flying is not over the wild interior. Mind you, a 310R might only compicate teh available choices, but they are getting on a bit now.
I would not favour the turbo options for all sorts of reasons, especially if you are using any old pilot or engineer.
Good luck whichever you choose and if you need rated pilot for flying in such an interesting place as that, pm me down here in Johannesburg.