View Full Version : blame cultures??
billysmart
6th Oct 2009, 11:40
hi,
after opinions on mistakes that mechs or licensed people make and the actions via the company.
what would be your companies action if someone forgot to do something or did not do it properly - typical example is safety wire. say someone anti locked a bolt , fill cap, nut etc
would it make a difference if it was on the fuselage or engine and etops or not?
what would be your companies reaction if this was reported... a good informal telling off or something like a recorded verbal or written warning?
sorry for all the questions but trying to guage if there is any sort of "standard" across avaiation companies.
cessna24
6th Oct 2009, 14:30
It depends on company procedures on how they deal with each individual case. Everyone is human and mistakes can happen which is why usually on critical areas, any work performed will have a duplicate inspection which is too prevent accidents. But for your question, anti-locking a bolt is serious but I have never seen an incident where management have got involved.
c24
Fargoo
6th Oct 2009, 18:16
If it's a genuine mistake, usually a slap on the wrist from Quality and perhaps a bit of informal retraining.
If it's a slip up due to poor practice or laziness, anything from a 3 day unpaid holiday to demotion can and has been dished out. Anything that causes serious damage or cost due to poor practice or laziness and it's out the door.
On more critical systems, as cessna24' says, a duplicate inspection should and usually does pick up things like anti-locking or incorrect assembly.
No point going banzai for a simple bit of human error, you'll just end up with no one reporting anything and all sorts of mistakes being covered up.
billysmart
6th Oct 2009, 19:55
ok thanks for feedback.. thats what i was thinking of. my mates in UAE and he got pulled up as having missed incorrect locking on a flap actuator and as you say "the management" are going banzai on him, full writen recorded warning and its even gone upto the technical director that sits on the chairman board!
i am guessing the result will be hat if anyone coks up then they wont say anything and that could lead to smoking holes in the ground :eek:
to appear slightly positive....
Some companies do the full works in the way of technical investigations, MEDA interviews, Technical Boards, etc: before concluding what the Root Cause was and the culpability of the person concerned.
Of course, some just use this as evidence to sack the guy too!!
Bus429
8th Oct 2009, 13:41
If it's a genuine mistake, usually a slap on the wrist from Quality and perhaps a bit of informal retraining.
If it's a slip up due to poor practice or laziness, anything from a 3 day unpaid holiday to demotion can and has been dished out. Anything that causes serious damage or cost due to poor practice or laziness and it's out the door.
On more critical systems, as cessna24' says, a duplicate inspection should and usually does pick up things like anti-locking or incorrect assembly.
No point going banzai for a simple bit of human error, you'll just end up with no one reporting anything and all sorts of mistakes being covered up
Not sure your company is up with the "Just Culture"!
TURIN
10th Oct 2009, 19:42
my mates in UAE and he got pulled up as having missed incorrect locking on a flap actuator and as you say "the management" are going banzai on him, full writen recorded warning and its even gone upto the technical director that sits on the chairman board!
Well, a Captain got demoted for not having his hat with him so what chance do us mere mortals have?
Dodo56
13th Oct 2009, 11:58
"Just Culture" is the answer of course. You can't ignore maintenance errors or they will continue until something happens that can't be ignored. Equally you can't hammer people without good cause or they will fail to report - or worse, cover up - errors, with the same effect. Management need to accept that mistakes happen and understand the Dirty Dozen factors that can cause these mistakes. Equally techs need to accept that mistakes should only happen once and that sloppy work is no excuse.
Few mistakes should be cause for immediate disciplinary action. I've been lucky that in the companies I've worked for that has generally been the culture, wish it were more common.