Bomb on board Explodes ( A-320 )

[Jimmy Hoffa Rocks]

If during climb out of 5000 feet a bomb in the forward hold explodes and the doors takes out engine no 2 severe damage?

Any suggestions for this scenario ?

[Rainboe]

Do you think a single sentence clearly states your requirements or an adequate basis t explain exactly what the nature of your query is, and why? Is this a simulator scenario, a home flight sim scenario, a tech query....what? Of course a bloody door going into an engine is going to spoil your day! The damage could be anything.

[simonchowder]

You might have problems pressurising so id play it safe and land asap, obviously some of the passengers wont be happy at the delay but safety does come first

[QAR ASR]

"You might have problems pressurising so id play it safe and land asap"

YOU ARE @£$%ing KIDDING ME!!

Chowder if you haven't got clue as to what you are talking about then please shut up.

Go to Spotters corner or Flight sim forums........

[BOAC]

Not forgetting that "some of the passengers" might unfortunately arrive on the ground before you.

[QJB]

"You might have problems pressurising so id play it safe and land asap"

YOU ARE @£$%ing KIDDING ME!!

Hahahahaha that's gold. "How many Pax have we lost Bob?".... "um. 23 mate". Alright, let's push on then.

[TckVs]

Qar ASR. are you sure you come from gatwick fogport and not somewhere that doesn't understand humour?

[Back at NH]

"a bomb in the forward hold explodes............" "......obviously some of the passengers wont be happy at the delay"

Oh don't they just brighten up an otherwise dull day.:D

[rgbrock1]

I'm not sure I understand the intent of the original question. Is there a reason why any flight deck member would ever pose a question such as this? I detect some underlying issues with this question. None of them good.

[Capt Pit Bull]

nice one simon.

I appreciate dry humour. Some of the rest of you need to pop a valium and stay off the red meat <wink>

For the OP:

Pretty simple I'd say.

Execute the severe engine checklist, see if anything else isn't working, find a nearby big runway, plan on landing on it sooner rather than later, i.e. don't fret about landing overweight.

Anticipate problems during configuration, especially if there is any sign of damage to the wing, so be ready for flapless. Consider a low speed handling check.

Fly as smoothly as possible, no knowing how screwed your aircraft is structurally.

any more for any more?


pb

[QAR ASR]

TckVs,

I do but that isn't funny, maybe chowder and the like should pad out their 'Humour' with a few smilies.

Then we all may get it.

[Jimmy Hoffa Rocks]

It is interesting to see which pilots have imagination and can think outside the box.

Does the QRH. FCOM3,etc

Could this happen to you ?

It could be a simulator scenario ?

Do things happen in real life like in the scenario ?

Could this happen in real life ?

prepare for the worst, hope for the best

I dont have a cristal ball

I am not as intelligent as some of you experienced ppruners obviously.
Please help me learn.

Lets say a terrorist has set a bomb with a timing mechanism, then.

Thanks for your input

[rgbrock1]

"Lets say a terrorist has set a bomb with a timing mechanism, then"

Do you have nothing better to do with your time then invent hypothetical situations such as these? (Situations which rarely occur). What is your intention with these questions? To learn? Learn what?

[QAR ASR]

Hoffa,

Such scenarios are practiced in the sim and the outcome and subsquent failures will depend on the imagination of the trainer driving the sim.

I don't know if you saw some of the photos of the Qantas 747 that had an oxygen bottle explode ripping through wiring looms. Capt Pit Bulls, rundown is very good but the list of ECAM drills and subsequent failures will really depend on the manner in which the door leaves the airframe.

Does it happen? Not seen it, I think a United(??) 747 lost a fwd cargo door and it was messy, but it did land. But passengers did fall out! Not with each other I hasten to add.

Q

Standing by for the Boeing boys telling how they wouldn't survived in an Airbus.........

[Bealzebub]

Jimmy,

It has nothing to do with "thinking outside of the box", and your lack of a "cristal ball" (sic) isn't really relevant either.

Putting your "Hollywood" fantasies to one side for a moment, pilots would deal with the repercussions of any incident or emergency by identifying the problem, and as time permits utilizing the remaining resources. Every incident is different, and in a complex machine the net result would likely involve a combination of actions and procedures to achieve a successful outcome.

Your scenario is silly. It assumes one result which is meaningless. When a bomb exploded in the cargo hold of a 747 over Scotland, it didn't much matter what damage happened to various other assemblies, because the result was catastrophic.

The good news would be, that it would stun the snakes!;)

[Guest 112233]

The exsistance of this thread indicates a statistical correlation between shoe size (Eu) and IQ - Its hardly a senario that would be discussed on a public forum is it. Dear me

CAT III.

[TURIN]

QAR ASR

Simon Chowder's comment was obviously tongue in cheek.

Made I laaarf!

Come on, lighten up. The original post is so vague that it begged a ludicrous comment. It got one.

Personally, I'd check the MEL, contact the operator's MCC/MOC and cover my arris before some jumped up quality dept knob with nothing better to do than pick holes in the paperwork, sent an all points bullitin out demanding why I hadn't let them know the exact state of the a/c and the length of any delay as soon as the damn bomb had gone off!!!!:mad:

OK maybe it's me that needs to lighten up. :\

Rant over. :ok:

[simonchowder]

Thanks pitbull/turin, some people need to lower their sarcasm deflectors:)

[Storminnorm]

D C 10s used to lose doors fairly regularly.
But that was eons ago.
Ain't happened a lot lately far as I know.

[ChristiaanJ]

Storminnorm,
DC-10 cargo hold door was a design issue.
AFAIK on the A320 they are plug doors, which is why I am somewhat baffled by the question.
An explosion in the hold could blow a hole and scatter a spray of debris from skin panels, etc. but I cannot see why it would necessarily blow out the door itself.

[Duchess_Driver]

YouTube - Aviation - Boeing 747 - Airplane Crash (Explosion) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAlx_PwLMWA&NR=1)

Think the fuselage was presurised at the time....., not sure to what altitude. Nor am I sure what the size of the charge was, but I'm fairly certain it was about the same size at Lockerbie.

Yes, 'twas a United airlines 74 out of Hawaii that blew a forward cargo door. 9 pax didn't make it back.

[smudgethecat]

LMAO at QAR ASR really bit there didnt you?, must be hard going through life with no sense of humour, it was pretty obvious chowders post was firmly tonque in cheek .

However back to the OP best course of action is obviously a RTB where the damage can be inspected, it may be possible if the MEL/CDL permits it to go with a cargo door missing and a inop engine, in that case the delay may not be to severe

PS the A320 main cargo doors are certainly not of the plug type christiaanj, however the bulk door is

[Desk Jockey]

Smudgethecat pleease tell me you are joking and don't have anthing to do with real aircraft.:eek:

[Pilotinmydreams]

I think that possibly the British sense of humor may get lost on people from outside the UK. :)

[Storminnorm]

DJ, read the FIRST message title. Hypothetical????

Don't worry, Be happy. O.K.?

[Mr Optimistic]

Surprised its still here: even the British can sometimes not see the humour. As a passenger I wouldn't mind the delay as I could concentrate on writing a longer will. Idiots. Bomb, door, engine, sheesh.

[Jimmy Hoffa Rocks]

( This thread is not intented for passengers and the commercial/marketing deparment sorry )

Fatigue failure is the hypothetical scenario No. 2.
A better one. Thanks again.

Obviously we all have too much free time or we would not be posting replies

Aloha Airlines 243
1989

Airplanes are retired after so many cycles for good reason, I guess.

Obviously one fell through the cracks.


" It was later determined that the failure was caused by widespread fatigue damage in the aluminum skin of the fuselage. It was calculated that this particular aircraft had experienced 89,090 flight cycles over its 19 year life span. What caused this failure, and how could it have been prevented? "
Causes of Crack Growth in Aloha Flight 243



Read more: http://mechanical-engineering.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_fatigue_failure_of_aloha_flight_243#ixzz0TCXZvZUP (http://mechanical-engineering.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_fatigue_failure_of_aloha_flight_243#ixzz0TCXZvZUP)

[Kerosine]

Jimmy Hoffa Rocks (http://www.pprune.org/members/251004-jimmy-hoffa-rocks)

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Planet earth
Perhaps not currently residing in stated location :hmm:

[TheOptimist]

Hand a passenger a roll of duct tape and let them get on with it.

[Bla Bla Bla]

Once we have covered this subject can we please go onto the correct procedure for the following.

Correct procedure for an alien craft docking with us and boarding during the flight.

Or the correct landing procedure for the air hostess who is flying the a/c as the crew all had the fish for dinner.

Any other What if scenarios can we come up with.:)

[35hPA28]

A pilot told me once that airliners have one or more locations where previously unknown to be on-board explosive devices suspected to be capable of going off in short notice :eek: shoud be placed, in case they are found during flight.

Is it so? Any examples for types currently flown? (So I can do a better job at picking my seat next trip) :}

[TheOptimist]

^^^

I imagine the 'locations' are found by opening a window....

[35hPA28]

At 30,000 plus feet? Kind of defeats the porpouse, doesn´t it? :ugh:

[Karl Bamforth]

Sorry, when did we arrive at 30,000 ?
I must have slept through the climb phase.

Maybe its the lack of oxygen that is causing humour failure on this thread.

[Junkflyer]

The Aloha Airlines 737 failed due in part to the bonding between 2 metal surfaces. It was a "cold bond" process that has been discontinued since it allowed moisture in between the surfaces. The high cycle time is due to the relatively short flights between islands in Hawaii. Honolulu Maui or Kauai is about 21 minutes. Long flights (Honolulu-Hilo) maybe 35 minutes.
The Ual flight was headed for Auckland and the fwd cargo door opened inflight and tore a hole in the first class cabin which sucked out 9 passengers and caused fod damage to the #3 and 4 engines.

[Jimmy Hoffa Rocks]

Junkflyer, that's useful information." Cold bond "
Cheers

some of the black humour reminds me of monty python

[Capt Pit Bull]

A pilot told me once that airliners have one or more locations where previously unknown to be on-board explosive devices suspected to be capable of going off in short notice shoud be placed, in case they are found during flight.

Yes, this is true. A "Least Risk Bomb Location" may be specified for an aircraft.

Is it so? Any examples for types currently flown? (So I can do a better job at picking my seat next trip)

Sorry, I don't think its appropriate to discuss this in any further depth.

[Dit]

Is it so? Any examples for types currently flown? (So I can do a better job at picking my seat next trip)You don't think you'd be moved away from said location if this event were actually to occur?

[TckVs]

Captain S pit Bull,

I agree with you, But I wouldn't sit near the back doors of the jumbo Either.:ok:

Did I get you right:D

[35hPA28]

TheOptimist:
It was a serious question, so I took your answer seriously. Sorry, I did miss the humour...

Karl Bamfort:
The question was generic and not related to the 5,000ft mentioned in the first post. Opening anything in the pressure hull while there is still a press diff in relation to the atmosphere could be just as explosive. That is the point I was trying to make. Regarding lack of oxygen, yes, late in the night -> humour failure.

Capt Pit Bull:
Thanks for the answer and for the correct terminology. The second part of my question was asked in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way but I agree 100% that details are better left alone except for those who legitimally need to know.

Dit:
I do hope so, but that spoils my joke!

[LCA Bound]

I havejust one question as quite a regular passenger and that is ,
Would the original senario here and all the possible occurences that might lead from this have a negative impact on the time the drinks trolley is utilised ?


:p:p:p:p:p

[misd-agin]

Easy solution, use your checklist!

"Forward cargo door blown off checklist please!"

[STBYRUD]

Yes sir, and blame the PNF if he doesn't find it! Correct me if I'm wrong, is there a trend towards more and more obscure questions and topics on PPRuNe? I havent been active in this forum for a long time, but I've read threads here and there for quite some time... :)

[Ex Cargo Clown]

I'm still struggling to find a reference to this in the FCOM.

Same as the "infamous" Sim sessions of double hydraulic failure followed by bird strike followed by cracked windscreen and APU fire during a takeoff in icing conditions at minimums at night.........

[ChristiaanJ]

I know... nowadays major uncontained turbine or compressor failures are rare.

But wouldn't the scenario be somewhat similar?

One engine definitely out of action, and enough debris spewed around to lead to a major explosive cabin decompression? Doesn't even need the bomb postulated earlier.

CJ

[ground_star]

I suspect the first & most urgent action in this situation, would be the flight deck to change their underwear & replace their soiled trousers, before calmly getting the bird on the deck as safely & quickly as they can. :E

& still the press would slate their actions, despite having no bloody clue what is involved!

[Jimmy Hoffa Rocks]

LCA bound.



( These are statistically extremely rare events. Your chances of winning the lottery are far greater than for a potential or hypothetical accident like this, to happen. It is far more dangerous driving your car to work. How many car accidents with mortalities do you drive by that are never reported by the press. Do people still drive their cars to work without fear ? Yes.
We learn from these accidents such as Aloha Airlines 243 ( a unique and extremely unusual accident ) and the corrections were made by the FAA+ worldwide to make sure to prevent such occurences in the future. )


ASN Aircraft accident Boeing 737-297 N73711 Maui, HI (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19880428-0)#




But to answer your question

If the hypothetical and modified Aloha airlines flight 243 ( unique ) scenario No.3 were to be applied..

Sorry to say but there would be a chance that the drinks trolley would be sucked into Engine no.2 causing severe damage.


You would need a number of drinks and nurses afterwards to aid in your rehabilitation.

[jugofpropwash]

>A pilot told me once that airliners have one or more locations where previously unknown to be on-board explosive devices suspected to be capable of going off in short notice shoud be placed, in case they are found during flight.

Yes. Actually, I believe the designated location is outside, on top of the left wing.

The least-senior (or most senior, and closest to collecting retirement - depending on the airline in question) member of the cabin crew is responsible for positioning the possible explosive.