Pilot Training in New Zealand

[Big_saint]

Just finishing up my last year of secondary school, and have been looking at flying academies in NZ. Looking at a Diploma in Aviation Science ( Instructor Rating) which gives me my full PPL, CPL, IFR and Instructor rating with 4 additional business papers (hoping to complete a commerce degree as well).
Just wandering what peoples experiences are with flight schools in NZ also any recommendations. I am lucky enough to once I have finished my degree/diploma, my student loan will be paid off.
Just seeing what experience people have had with any of the flight schools?

[Konev]

further south you go, generally the better they get.

[AutopilotEngage]

Bayflight.

[KING PIN]

anyone heard anything good or bad about Eagle flight training or Airline flying club or whenuapai aviation sports club in auckland

[NZFlyingKiwi]

As I understand it, Airline Flying Club have only very recently made the transition from being a "weekends only" club to offering full time flight training, and I think they only have one full time instructor. I'm sure there are people here who fly with them who will be able to set things straight though, I may be completely mistaken.

Eagle Flight Training seem like a fairly typical flying school - I did meet a guy a little while back who had switched training organisations away from EFT around the time of his instrument rating because he felt it was getting done much too slowly there, although that's only one person's opinion and it could well have been his fault as much as their's.

The Whenuapai club I don't know much about, except that they seem to have about 5 different aircraft of varying types. Not sure if they still have a twin available.

[KING PIN]

fair enuf i am new to this field as i always wanted to become a pilot as a career. which is the best place to get training in auckland ?

[mattyj]

Airline..they're all obsessed with flying, experienced (lots of current airline pilots) and they'll do it right..mostly train what you need to know. (cheap too..relatively)

Whenuapai have got great photo albums of all the planes they wrecked over the years:}

[KING PIN]

yes i agree that they have just become a full time club and have full time courses going and one full time instructor and very very friendly by talking to them....

I see that Eagle flight training is run by 3 pilots 1 x and 2 current pilots all A Cat. So i guess they are both at the same level ...

correct me if i am wrong

Eagle is moe of a training center and airline is club and aviation ..... so what would be benefecial?

[Exaviator]

If you are looking for an aviation degree along with your licence check out the course offered by Massy University, in Palmerston. :ok:

[SPEEDI]

Cant go wrong at Massey uni wit brand spanking new fleet of DA40 and DA42s

[DeltaT]

Don't even start your pilot training, save your money, live a much more happier and fruitful life in some other job.
The reality of the job is not what it once was. -And thats if you are fortunate enough to to get one beyond GA.

[1279shp]

Bayflight @ NZTG! :D

Fleet's old; C152's, classic Cherokee, and a Seneca 1 - heard one of the 152's is coming up 17,000hrs!! - but the best team of instructors and led by the legendary Phill Hooker.

Big BBQ on the deck Friday lunchtime, lots of socials, Tauranga is pretty damn great place to live -- lots going for it.

Oh and the show that is the first time a new 'pilot in training' consumes a "Hooker Rum"!! By the time he can teach you no more, the Coruba'n'Coke flows down pipes easily! :ooh: (Which reminds me, been a wee while since I paid a visit!)

Laurie Barnett is the man to talk to, damn legend himself having kept the school flying so high for so long.:ok:

fly(at)bayflight.co.nz

[Konev]

my tips would be Nelson, Dunedin (mainland) or Invercargill (southern wings), take a wide bearth from massey.

[Got the horn]

I went to Nelson Aviation College. Good times.

[Big_saint]

only thing I can say about nelson is they are a bit slow in replying to you... but every one seems to like it in sunny nelson though so will keep pursuing them.

[AutopilotEngage]

take a wide bearth from massey

Pay no attention to this guy, nothing wrong with Massey if your willing to put in the work.

[Big_saint]

take a wide bearth from massey
Pay no attention to this guy, nothing wrong with Massey if your willing to put in the work.

The problem is I've heard this from quite a few different sources.

[Bla Bla Bla]

Stop it, Massey is a great sausage factory, It nearly makes as good sausages as Christchurch Aviation Academy.

[KING PIN]

yea I personally dont prefer to be studying in a factory sorta environment... i prefer to be around and taught by friendly, experienced, helpful instructors where they work with students as a team to reach the goal/s sorta environment so hence asking for opinion and advice.. still looking around in auckland

[NZFlyingKiwi]

Well, Auckland Aero Club are another good option, but you'd have to be prepared to pay for it all yourself since there isn't any student loan assistance available there.

[KING PIN]

yea i am planning to pay as i go rather than a student loan.... auckland aero club and airline flying club and whenuapai sports aviation club and eagle flight training are all pay as you go .. so was wondering if anyone ahd experiences with any of them and which is recommended etc....

[NZFlyingKiwi]

Well the only one of those 4 I've flown with is AAC, and they're pretty good - good variety of aircraft (two multis at the moment, a 152 aerobat and they have access to a taildragger, in addition to your usual variety of training singles), instructors aren't too busy generally and are happy to go out of their way to help you, good facilities with a cafe in the same building, not to mention the bar! :ok:. They also periodically run ground courses.

[phatmike128]

Anyone have any info on Air New Plymouth?

[KING PIN]

AAC and Whenuapai Aviation Sports Club being part of the RNZAC.. does AAC encourage students to participate in the club events?

[NZFlyingKiwi]

Yes, absolutely, they have quite a few events and many are open to student pilots.

[steve181]

One of the best kept secrets is the Air New Zealand flying club in NZCH. Cessna 172 = $120/hr (or there abouts). Double (approximately) that hire rate & that's what you pay across the runway at the IAANZ/CAC. You could get up to CPL level at the ANZFC & for half the price compared to some other places.

Just out of interest does anyone know of anywhere in NZ where you can hire a 172 for cheaper?

[KING PIN]

cant find ANZFC's proper website ... would anyone know if they have one in auckland too...

[Konev]

steve, gore has a 180hp 172 for something like $160. :}

[steve181]

This is the website: anzfc.co.nz (http://www.anzfc.co.nz/) I think there is only one ANZFC & that's in NZCH.

The organization is run by volunteers, Air New Zealand aircraft engineers maintain the four aircraft. The facilities are very basic (you have to go into the main hanger to take a piss for example) & the aircraft don't have the newest interior or avionics but they are well maintained, adequate & safe aircraft none the less & the advantage of this is rock bottom prices!

[samdaman]

hi guys
been trying hard to find an email for anzfc.co.nz (http://www.anzfc.co.nz/) but no luck. can someone help?

Cheers
Samdaman

[KING PIN]

same here i am having trouble finding an email address fo them

[steve181]

The ANZFC Cessna 172RG Cutlass is $150/hr if your NOT employed by Air New Zealand, if your an employee you get a discounted rate ($135/hr on the Cutlass for example). The Cheapest aircraft would be the Cessna 150 which is $120/hr (non employee rate) from memory.

The basic process to join is to send away the membership Application form (found inside the 'downloads' tab). It can take a month or two to hear back from them (as there is no fancy 0800 number or receptionist). You pay around $150 per year as a member. Once you are a member just give an instructor a call (under the contacts tab) & arrange a flight from there. You book the flights on the website itself under the 'bookings tab'.

If you want to know more information your best bet is to give an instructor a call or I'll be happy to help via pm. The instructors don't work there full time or anything (not enough business there to make a living off) so they have other jobs. The whole place is casual, relaxed, quiet etc but as I said the aircraft are well maintained & all the instructors are great & several are highly experienced, these two factors are the most important thing.

[cutter2]

Try Waikato Aero Club in Hamilton. newer gear with a bit of glass. good Instructors no BS:ok:

[akki.mohla]

I am an Indian student.
I am planning to come to New Zealand next year to start my professional pilot training.
I want to know about some good reputed flying institutes in New Zealand.
I have been through the prospectus of Nelson aviation college and Mainland aviation college.
Which is the better college among them to do professional pilot training. ?
Which is better place for flight training Motueka or Dunedin ?
Do they provide BGT ?

[slackie]

Try reading one of the many other threads on this topic....http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/390969-pilot-training-new-zealand.html:ugh: (http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-general-aviation-questions/390969-pilot-training-new-zealand.html)

[lilflyboy262]

Im struggling to think who the disgruntled IFR person was that left Eagle Flight Training. Eagle usually gets all the disgruntled pilots from Ardmore and the flying club that are sick of being messed around.

Ive done probably that last 200hrs of my training, and have had no issues whatsoever with them. They are great and will bend over backwards to get you through your training.
As you said before, Eagle has 3 A-cat instructors on its books, as well as a few B and C cat instructors.
All of the A-cats have had operation experience, and train the pilots to those standards.

The gear is a little old, but it is well maintained. The duchess has just had one of those small glass cockpit things put in it. Hours of fun trying to figure everything out on it while you are travelling around.
Not a extremely busy place either so you can pretty much always get a A/C when you want one. I know I have no issues with getting 1.

If you find Eagle a bad place to fly at, then I think that you need to look at yourself as the issue to why things aren't being done. They will help you along the way, but they aren't your parents and wont make you turn up.

Hope this helps with your decision.

[HercFeend]

Talking of Whenuapai Aviation Sports Club - does anyone know if you can get your C-Cat there?

[devolved]

The gear is a little old, but it is well maintained.


ooopsies for the wheels up landing they conducted the other week. (not the pilot's fault). :}

[XRNZAF]

Yep, should be able to do a C cat at WP sports club. They have a B cat who's full time if I remember correctly...

[Massey1Bravo]

Anyone know of any places with good deals (other than ANZFC) for CPL solo hour building? I'm currently with North Shore at the moment but willing to travel if the price is right. I don't mind old gear as I just need the hours.

Thanks

[dudduddud]

Airline Flying Club undercut everyone in Auckland for C150 hire rates last time I was there (July 09).

Give them a call 9 298 4747

They're good guys.

[NZFlyingKiwi]

As I understand it, the reason Airline Flying Club are so cheap is because they don't operate under part 141, however I understand that may be soon to change, in which case the rates will probably go up to a level more consistent with the other operators on the field.

Edit - Not that that's a reason to not fly with them - I haven't flown with them personally but I've visited the club a couple of times and they seem like nice people. :)

[Terrorhawk81]

Ever thought about Air Hawke's Bay down in the sunny bay? Tomahawks, cherokees, cubs, c172 and senecas?

[pipkin]

CTC vs IAANZ?. I know they have been called sausage factories, but Im planning to enroll into one of them. Which one...................?

[Jimbo33]

Anywhere other than IAANZ.

I'm a student there at the moment, and the place is going down hill rapidly.

The CEO cares only about money, not quality. There's students here right now who have been here for over a year, yet to fly, have failed every PPL and CPL exam multiple times. As long as they keep paying, they can stay.

With a few exceptions, the instructors generally don't give a toss. They want their hours so they can move on, and have little regard for students.

Bottom line is, IAANZ is churning out some VERY poor quality pilots.

[KING PIN]

does whenuapai aviation sports club come under the part 141 ? or is it just a club of enthusiasts.

What is the difference between training in a place which comes under part 141 i.e. flying school and training in places which are not under part 141.

Will it affect my career later if i wanted to become a professional pilot ?

thanks in advance for your advise

[The Trailing Edge]

I don't normally get involved in these sorts of things but i'm going to come to the defense of IAANZ. And before anyone gets stuck in, no, i'm not employed by either the CAC or the IAANZ, I was however a student.

The IAANZ is a large organisation and yes it pushes a lot of students through the system. The fundamental thing that people fail to understand, especially those using the student loan funding is that your mum is not there to look after you. If you want flights, get your instructor or the booking guy to book them. If you wan't to pass your exams first time, do some study and if you don't understand something ask. If you don't want to do this feel free to take days off, go on holiday or sit upstairs drinking coffee and whinging, but be prepared for the course to take longer than a year! Its your choice.

My course had 27 students on it. I know of at least 10 who passed the course in less than 11 months, all while there were 2 other courses with roughly the same number of students in each.

In regard to the instructors just wanting to jump ship. Where are they going to jump ship to? As you may have noticed there is a bit of a slow down in the job market at the moment. I know only of 1 who has an interview out of the current crop. They do give a toss and will be more than happy to help, BUT, only if you put the effort in. As I said above take some responsibility for your own learning.

I know this all sounds a bit harsh, but this is aviation and aviation is the real world, so, unlike high school there are no "did not achieve" just PASS/FAIL.

I would reccomend the IAANZ to any prospective student, its what you make of it.

TTE

[devolved]

If you want airlines, then i'd high recommend CTC. Like any newish place, it has its issues however pretty good place to be if you want airlines.

Usual progression for their multi instructors is Eagle & Air NS. Pretty cool A cats about there aswell. Their flying is very structured, so theres no room for things like herobatics ratings or flyaways to comps etc.

[minimum_wage]

The Trailing Edge you have summed it up pretty well.

I too was a student at IAANZ and had to speak up to get flying when the bookings were not equalised. Squeaky wheel gets the oil. And it's not rocket science to pass exams. It is the quantity of information to learn rather than anything that difficult. And if you are having problems, talk to guys that are doing well and see what their study techiques are. A type rating when you make it to the airlines will require a good study technique.


And devolved, why is ctc a good place for getting into the airlines? Not sure what you base that statement on. I know if 2 guys only that went to Eagle and we know well that went. Correct me if I'm wrong please as I haven't heard of anyone else. Though I know of at least one instructor that had an Air NSN interview last week which is good news for her.

[27/09]

Part 141 versus Part 61.

Really nothing in it. Quality of training comes down the the instructor you fly with, and that can be very good or very poor under both systems. I am not aware of any airlines in New Zealand choosing pilots based on where they learned to fly.

CAA are in the process of making it compulsory for any training other than PPL training to be conducted by a part 141 organisation. All in the interests of improving standards you understand. :suspect::suspect::suspect:



CTC

Usual progression for their multi instructors is Eagle & Air NS. Well you might be surprised to learn this happens at most aero clubs and flying schools.

[Sqwark2000]

27/9 beat me to it.... Go to a Pt.141 outfit.

If you want to do the full upsized meal deal training package to CPL/MEIR/C-cat then pick a place that can do it all. I recommend doing it at a place where there may be opportunities to work at on completion and not just instructing, somewhere that has a commercial ATO side to the business.... like Mainland Air, HB&EC Aero Club, Flight Training/Air Manawatu, Air Wanganui ?? New Plymouth Aero Club for examples....

Cheers


S2K

[conflict alert]

I know if 2 guys only that went to Eagle and we know well that went

Not all of us do - what happened?? I remember sometime ago seeing a write up in one of the Aviation News editions (I think) new proud as punch eagle pilots straight from CTC. Remember thinking then - this will be interesting - so what's the low down??

[27/09]

I remember sometime ago seeing a write up in one of the Aviation News editions (I think) new proud as punch eagle pilots straight from CTC. Just some typical CTC self promotion I suspect as I didn't see the article to which you refer. No other organisation makes big news of graduates going to the airlines.

so what's the low down?? Not much from what I have heard, but then I might not have heard all there is to hear.

The idea of airlines taking low hour CPL's in New Zealand has it's issues, like lack of P in C time for ATPL and having the total hours to be able to upgrade to take a command in the normal time frames.

[Aerozepplin]

And the buckets full of experienced single pilot IFR folks who'd take the job. How'd they manage to even convince Eagle?

[LocoDriver]

Interesting thread.

here is a question, WHO actually trains in NZ under a part141?

Quite a few have a 141, for flight testing, and for aerobatic training, but how many operate it for flight training.?? that is the question.

the results may surprise, so, boys and girls, go and check first.
By training with a certified 141, with a CAA audit process??
c'mon, answers please.

Instructors and the motivation of students themselves, count for a lot in the 'making' of a good pilot.
I have seen too many with the wrong attitude..............

Cheers

:ok:

[SPEEDI]

Quite a few have a 141, for flight testing, and for aerobatic training, but how many operate it for flight training.?? that is the question.

the results may surprise, so, boys and girls, go and check first.
By training with a certified 141, with a CAA audit process??
c'mon, answers please.


Massey University operate under part 141 and without fail get audited every 6 months by the CAA.

[LocoDriver]

Thats one..............

any more................

as I said, the answer may surprise some people.

cheers

:ok:

[Sqwark2000]

Massey University operate under part 141 and without fail get audited every 6 months by the CAA.

Is that representative of their quality? getting audited every 6mths?

I'm sure you get audited 6-12mths after an initial approval, then, depending on the quality of the audit, you should get a 2-5yr renewal with just random spot audits in between.

Every 6mths sounds like they (CAA) are working hard to keep Massey in line.

S2K

[riseagainst]

Hawera aero club, quite cheap rates!

[SPEEDI]

Is that representative of their quality? getting audited every 6mths?

I'm sure you get audited 6-12mths after an initial approval, then, depending on the quality of the audit, you should get a 2-5yr renewal with just random spot audits in between.

Every 6mths sounds like they (CAA) are working hard to keep Massey in line.

Far from the truth, everyone who operates under a part 141 legally has to be audited by CAA. Massey being the great flying school it is :oh: pays auditors from CAA to ensure it is still teaching to the standard as expected from CAA.

[KING PIN]

Does whenuapai aviation sports club operate under part 141 or 61. does anyone know?

[LocoDriver]

Actually, part 61 and 141 teach to the same standard, its called the CAA Flight standards guide.

Thats what flight testing is measured on.

Part 141 means compliance to a set procedure of training, in accordance with the organisations training manual., /SOP etc.

Audits are a regular feature, to ensure compliance.

Part 141 means lots of box ticking.


Cheers


:ok:

[Lindstrim]

If your also under 141 does that allow you to train CPL's with 150 total hours?

[Big_saint]

Only place in Nz that can classify as an approved training course, therefore allowing you to leave with a CPL after 150 Hrs is Massey

[27/09]

If your also under 141 does that allow you to train CPL's with 150 total hours?

That's exactly what Part 141 was originally intended for. i.e. If you wanted to do pilot training to a syllabus that was different to Part 61, (e.g. less hours than part 61) you put together a training syllabus, (theory and practical), and demonstrate that you could meet the legislated standards with your course you could then go and train to your syllabus.

As far as I know Massey was the only place to do this.

CAA have hijacked the Part 141 system to created paper work and generate more auditing for them and more cost to the industry, all the while still using the Part 61 syllabus. All in the interest of improving flight training standards you understand.

Operation under Part 141 is basically operation to ISO 9000 principles. i.e. manuals and checklists. The ISO 9000 systems really only guarantee one thing, a consistent standard. A consistently bad product, a consistently good product or a consistenly average product. It will not necessarily improve standards.

[Got the horn]

Nelson Aviation College did (do) a 150 hr CPL. Most of the bigger schools do. Don't forget, it's not just GA that have to deal with Part 141. Air NZ, Airwork, Chat's,Jetconnect, , ASL etc, etc all have 141 cert's that require regular CAA audits.

[27/09]

Don't forget, it's not just GA that have to deal with Part 141.

I think you missed my point. All the operators you mention are doing training/checking not covered under Part 61, therefore the need for a Part 141 certificate.

CAA are introducing a system where training organisations will need a Part 141 certificate to do Part 61 training. This was never the original intention of Part 141. Once certificated under Part 141, they will still be training to the Part 61 syllabus but with the added cost and paper work of Part 141, but with no extra benefits from the current situation.

Hence my comment about Part 141 being hijacked.

[c100driver]

All the operators you mention are doing training/checking not covered under Part 61, therefore the need for a Part 141 certificate.



Not correct, a part 121 or part 125 operation does not require a part 141 to train pilots its employees. Part 121 and 125 all have training provisions embeded.

The reason to have a part 141 is to be able to sell training externally

[conflict alert]

Pilot Training in New Zealand
Just finishing up my last year of secondary school, and have been looking at flying academies in NZ. Looking at a Diploma in Aviation Science ( Instructor Rating) which gives me my full PPL, CPL, IFR and Instructor rating with 4 additional business papers (hoping to complete a commerce degree as well).
Just wandering what peoples experiences are with flight schools in NZ also any recommendations. I am lucky enough to once I have finished my degree/diploma, my student loan will be paid off.
Just seeing what experience people have had with any of the flight schools?

The original post.

Well I have just seen an ad on TV with a bloke standing in a PAC BLU jacket, in front of a B737 800 announcing to all and sundry that he is a captain with said airline, that he spends his day in the sun (as he plays with an overhead switch) and that you should go training with either CTC or Southair or something (I didn't quite catch the south school name) so there ya go, would seem that they are the 2 picks!!!!!!!!!

[HercFeend]

Southern Institute of Technology - Invercargill, NZ

Diploma in Aviation (Fixed or Rotary Wing) (http://www.sit.ac.nz/courses/Invercargill/Diploma_in_Aviation_%28Fixed_or_Rotary_Wing%29_4627)

[KING PIN]

the guy in the advert did his diploma in aviation course at southern institute of technology.

[Got the horn]

Yeah true, but he didn't have a hat.

[lilflyboy262]

He must have started the course when he was pretty old though. He definatly isnt fresh out of school.
Shows that the school is not discrimatory either!

[Konev]

havent seen the add but got a fair idea who it is, pretty sure he moved from swings (sit) to stewart island frights to one of the small air NZ airlines.

[conflict alert]

one of the small air NZ airlines

wouldn't have thought that PAC BLU small

[Three Blader]

he was one of the youngest captains in NZ, and he did fly for iniatally for Stewart Island Frights
Trained at Southern Wings

[todai]

People please can you'll guide me . i have chosen Flight training Manawatu for CPL training in New Zealand. Can you'l please tell me is it good o no ?. and also i want to know which bank provides loans for international students in new zealand . pls do reply :rolleyes::sad:

[Sqwark2000]

Good training organisation from what I know.

I'd be very, very surprised if any bank lent money to non-permanent residents, you'd want to check your source of funding prior to committing to coming to NZ.

S2K

[ranfurly]

Flight training Manawatuseem to have stood the test of time and are still are very busy training organization from what I have seen.
Talking to students they don't have too many problems and get through their courses quickly

[A.Sullivan]

anyone down dunedin way know the best place for hiring AC? looking for a 172 just for some x countries and local flights. also anyone that would be interested in doing some flying together?

[LocoDriver]

Go and see the Otago aero club.....
good bunch of dudes!

:ok:

[Jagdfalke]

@ todai

Their CFI was killed only recently during an overhead rejoin. I've done some instructing there, and to be honest, the safety culture didn't impress me at all.


http://www.taic.org.nz/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=pmdTZenSKtg%3D&tabid=78&language=en-US

[A.Sullivan]

thanks. will head in there after exams to have a chat. Also is there anyone close to dunedin that does parachute drops?

[pipkin]

Noone can touch CTC Hamilton

[Aerozepplin]

Will my old friend Mr Noone then get arrested for touching CTC against their will?

[RadioSaigon]

anyone down dunedin way...



Noone can touch CTC Hamilton...

hmmm... :E

[Capt. On Heat]

Some fairly accurate comments, except


Massey. No. CTC. No.

Reasons: Watch them when the weather is bad or the crosswind is up:ugh:

[Oktas8]

Massey. No. CTC. No.

Ho hum, as usual it had to be brought into any topic about flying training. Anyone else want to get something off their chest while we're at it?

Now back to the topic: Dunedin.

[alexWCD]

I know we just said stop.

But we all aren't horrible pilots. Yes, there are a fair few. But, majority of the NZ cadets-the ones who will end up working in GA and working their way up instead of buying a FO seat in a 320- are pretty good pilots who can handle their own. Unfortunately just a few cocky's who think their s*** don't stink.