Is it an easy £80K?

[Grambo]

For the pilots. (I assume that £80k is a reasonable estimated of earnings for the guys with years of experience...)

I know to learn to become a pilot costs a fortune, but I am willing to consider it as a career - I have no idea what I want to do, it changes everyday, honestly.

Doctors earn around £100K, probably the most high pressure job there is in my opinion. You are probably almost guaranteed a job though, even in recession.

I dont want to sound rude, or disrespectful, but do you the work of a pilot is worth the same(almost) cost of that of a doctor.
I know pilots are responsible for hundreds of people, but if the plane crashes, surely it cant be there fault?

Basically, Do you think you are overpaid?

[Bealzebub]

I know to learn to become a pilot costs a fortune, but I am willing to consider it as a career - I have no idea what I want to do, it changes everyday, honestly.

Save yourself a lot of grief and study to become a Doctor, I don't think this is really right for you. I don't know whether doctors are guaranteed jobs or not, although I suspect it is the latter. However it is a noble, respectable and professional calling, and I am sure you wouldn't regret it.

I don't think I am overpaid, but I know a lot of people think otherwise. There is an entire industry attempting to rectify that situation. There are pilots who will not only work for nothing, but will actually pay to fly these days. Of course there are a lot of doctors who also offer their services to charities and voluntary organisations, and that is certainly much more altruistic.

Is it an easy 80K? Well yes it is, if you were earning 90K last year.

Many pilots have to manage on £64.30 a week! (http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTaxAndBenefits/BenefitsTaxCreditsAndOtherSupport/Employedorlookingforwork/DG_10018757)

[PPRuNeUser0165]

Grambo!
"I know to learn to become a pilot costs a fortune!"

Yes it does however it also take at least two years of very hard work!
I dont want to sound disrespectful myself buddy but I dont see that your heart is in it and if its not you will not finish the course! Its not about the money, we do it because we want to do it, the money can be a bonus but as pointed out by Bealzebub many pilots nowadays are on the Rock and Role as there are no jobs! Myself included for a shot time before I worked in a bar for the last 6 months waiting for a start date keeping the bank at bay!!
As for your Doctors remark, please do some research as its completely wrong! How do I know... My dads in the profession.
My advice mate would be to really sit down and have a good think.. We have all been there wondering what to do, whether the course is worth the money am i making a massive mistake etc etc.
If aviation is what you really want to do, and you are ready for some hard graft then do it! If not have another think.
All the best!:ok:

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

I am overpaid, I have never had a job before which is a pleasure to do, I am still getting used it.

I feel guilty taking the money. :p

[potkettleblack]

Where did you get the 80k from? Many professional pilots they will never see 80k pa in their lifetimes. For others attaining 80k may well take 10 years or more of service and climbing up a pay scale. If you work for an operator that goes bust whilst you are climbing then you get to look forward to rejoining at the bottom of someone elses scale should you be successful in finding a new job. Ditto your seniority and any perks that came with that eg: getting holidays when you want them, command upgrades etc.

The reality is that the chances of getting a job in this industry are slim at best given the current economic climate. Even during the boom many were not up to standard and failed to gain employment as a pilot. Fewer still got into the legacy airlines where the payrates are generally higher.

I would suggest another field if your after the cash. I left accountancy to become a pilot. I had roughly 8 years industry experience, had previously worked in one of the Big 4 firms and was on a little shy of 80k pa. Six figure salaries were easily attainable if you took a job with one of your clients. Lots of perks - cars, free lunches and dinners on the company, tickets to corporate events and sports. A good skill to have in your repertoire that will set you up for any future business ventures BUT boring as hell!

Good luck.

PS: PPJN (http://www.ppjn.com) should give you an indication of the pay rates across most of the UK's airlines.

[CrazySpaniard]

The answers above have probably summarized it well enough, but my try goes like this:

"I assume that £80k is a reasonable estimated of earnings for the guys with years of experience". No, it´s not. After 16 years in the air, I´m not making that; and won´t be by the 17th year either. You may mean: years working for the same airline, but to get to those "years working for the same airline" you´ve had to go trough many more years of instructing, banner towing, chartering miners in Congo on a Year 250 b. C. Cessna 206, some more banner towing, one year working at a bar, back to Congo, farming in Sunny Spain for some months... making under £20K/year. Then, if you´re one of the lucky few (that are also looking for an airline job, since many of us are happy flying something else), you may one day earn your £80K. It won´t be after years of experience, but after many years of experience, suffering, continuous studying and a truckload of luck.

Back to the "studying" part, it´s not just the two years to get the licence. You have to study and get your "licence" for the plane you´re gonna be flying as soon as it´s a tad bigger than a Seneca. Study to get it and then stay current. "Should I pay for it myself besides having paid for the whole CPL/ATPL?". Well, when you´re making £20K/year, it´s an easy decision, with one condition: you have to be able to survive two years without food and living under a bridge. Not many companies will hire you without that other "licence" for whatever planes they use, so unless you can survive those two years, you´re not gonna be in that "those that make £80K" group.

Then again, is that being over-paid? Remember that they´re not being paid that because of what they´ve suffered/studied/su***d to be there, but because of the income they generate for the company paying those wages. If my morning disposals at 'le toilette' were worth half a million quid, I´d be paid 80K for them, whatever my effort to get 'the job' done. The companies don´t pay based on your efforts or the praiseworthy of your job, but based on the income you generate, period. In this case, besides, the pilots getting the now-famous £80K happen to be people who studied, paid an awful lot of money, spent years surviving by eating cookies in a caravan, can´t have a normal life, spends days away from home (looks cool, but it´s not THAT cool once you´ve made it more than twice), can´t have normal relationships if not with other pilots... Their whole life is dedicated to the company.

Is that being overpaid? Never; and most aren´t paid that much.

Cheers

[Dr Eckener]

Quite frankly Grambo, looking at your other posts, you appear to be a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic, and possibly very spoilt. Do some research, grow up, and then come back and ask serious questions of serious people carrying out a serious profession.

[BoeingMEL]

I suggest a new Pprune forum called "Dreamers and Schemers"

How about it Grambo?

Just a thought :ugh:

[Callsign Kilo]

Your willingness to consider potential careers seems solely based on financial reward.

Forget being a commercial pilot and move on. Leave it to those who have passion for the profession. You cannot buy that. I sit beside too many sour faced old farts that would do anything to turn their back on the job. The very reason why they got into flying all those years ago was because of the money. They once believed they had jobs for life however those very airlines that promised them the world are now nothing but a distant memory (place any mainline/legacy/full service airline that has went bust in the last 10-15 years) I fully understand and even sympathise that this industry has changed one hell of a lot, however I don't need people banging on about how they once enjoyed the job when the pay was top drawer, they stayed in 5 star hotels and ate steak chasseur in the cruise. Now they freely admit that they just turn up and take the money (and they are still paid handsomely in my opinion) unfortunately their attitude and approach to the job reeks. Don't fall into the pit, because if you are in it for cash, prestige and glamour - forget it.

[superdash]

Matt.V

Correct :ok:

This career is not for everyone ;)

[Piltdown Man]

Basically, do you think you'll ever do anything worthwhile? If at 22 you have no passion and are constantly changing your mind, you find that you'll be left behind in the careers race (if that hasn't happened already). The medics of your age will be up to their elbows in old peoples bums, the law students will be have already learnt how to screw councils and insurance companies and so on. The young pilots at 22 (like those I fly with) are already taking home above average earnings and will be earning in excess of the figure you quoted in the near future.

What do you need to do? I'll assume you have already collected a superb set of A level results, have a good degree under your belt and a large pot of cash. So I'd try working for a Temp. agency so that you get exposure to many different types of operation and maybe you'll find one that you like. But if you don't get inspired, you could always get a job with a council. Loads of money, short hours, world class pension, no stress or nasty targetty things, piss other peoples cash away and retirement in 27 and a bit years time due "stress".

PM



I'm not overpaid and I'm worth more than 80K. In return for my salary I make sure that my plane doesn't bump into the ground where it shouldn't.

[Mikehotel152]

It's so worrying that certain people consider becoming pilots; more of a concern when you come across them stuttering through their CPL at your local FTO; and I imagine it's an even greater shock when you find them beside you in the cockpit. :confused:

Moving on...and answering the question, hopefully, after spending a small fortune on your training and passing exams and tests that are intentionally difficult (!), and spending a few years on less money, the skills and experience you will have accumulated warrant a salary of £80K per annum.

Put it this way, you're flying a piece of highly complicated machinery that is worth £50 million, carrying 150+ invaluable human-beings as SLF; you're trained over and over again to do the easy bits without thinking too much; react calmly, professionally and correctly to emergencies; and operate under intense commercial and professional pressure without realising it. I'm sure, with time, most pilots become so accustomed to their jobs that many of this becomes routine. That doesn't mean they are less deserving of their pay.

In a world where many spotty 25 year-olds make £80K gambling with other people's money in the City; a footballer with a League 2 team probably makes the same - while a talented player with a Premier League team is paid in excess of £80K a week for kicking a ball around a park; where all manner of ordinary folk earn vast sums 'advising' others how to run their businesses even though they haven't ever run one themselves; or when, in recent years, people made their fortune advertising other people's homes and taking a ludicrously high 3% on each sale for no effort; YES, pilots earn their pay.

Just my humble opinion though. :}

MH 152