Freight Dogs - Pay

[Grambo]

Do the pilots get the same as commercial pilots?

[rodthesod]

Actually, when I was flying freight I got quite a bit more than a lot of 'real' commercial pilots with girlies in tow - much less hassle too. Did you think freight pilots were some kind of amateurs or something?

[Intruder]

All depends on the company. There are low-paying passenger carriers and high-paying freight carriers. FedEx and UPS may be at the top of the heap these days...

[Dogslay]

Freight flying pays double for half the hassle!!!

[whazitdoinnow]

Question for Grambo. Can you explain the difference between "commercial pilots" and cargo pilots? I get that question quite a lot. People usually ask if I am a commercial pilot. If I say yes and that I fly cargo it is confusion galore. How can a cargo be pilot be a commercial pilot......beats me.

[Kep Ten Jim]

Grambo

To earn money for flying aeroplanes, you have to - by law - hold a commercial pilot's licence. A basic commercial pilot's licence (CPL) entitles you to fly as pilot in command (PIC) of small aircraft. An Airline Transport Pilot's Licence (ATPL) entitles you to fly in command of large aircraft.

It doesn't matter what your aircraft carries, human passengers, animals or boxes, the licencing requirements for the pilots are the same. A pilot flying cargo today is licenced to fly passengers tomorrow with no extra training or qualifications

[DA-10mm]

whazitdoinnow (http://whazitdoinnow),
if you're making money (getting paid) in your endeveour, guess what (?), you're a commercial pilot.

the regs make no differetiation on whether there are warm bodies in the back or card board boxes---"is the airplane making money?" is the big issue (plus, boxes don't bitch about a less-that-perfect touchdown).

cargo pilots ARE commercial pilots.
I've flown many a multi-millionaire around the world in his fancy PRIVATE jet, still acting as a commercial pilot...

[franticforever]

gambo, u numpty, try getting an education before posting.

frieght guys and girls work just as hard if not harder in some case's,

oh those first night's are a killer somtimes!

yes i earn more than friends who fly pax, but not as much as some, and the hairy arse guy sat next to me, does nothing for my sex drive.

BUT

frieght is pretty much straight forward and good flying.:ouch:

[Intruder]

To earn money for flying aeroplanes, you have to - by law - hold a commercial pilot's licence. A basic commercial pilot's licence (CPL) entitles you to fly as pilot in command (PIC) of small aircraft. An Airline Transport Pilot's Licence (ATPL) entitles you to fly in command of large aircraft.

It doesn't matter what your aircraft carries, human passengers, animals or boxes, the licencing requirements for the pilots are the same. A pilot flying cargo today is licenced to fly passengers tomorrow with no extra training or qualifications
Not quite...

Depending on the country rules, a CPL or ATPL may be required to fly passengers OR cargo for hire in ANY airplane. In the US, for example, the PIC in a Part 121 operation must have an ATPL, but the SIC may have only a CPL+IR in domestic and international 2-pilot operations. For Part 135 operations, the ATPL is required for passenger operations in airplanes with 10 or more seats.

Whether a pilot can currently fly cargo or passengers depends on the certificate and training program of the operator.

In general, Part 121 operators (airlines) have requirements that are more stringent than the FAA's. Most require ATPLs for all pilots, and their training programs encompass all intended operations, so all pilots are qualified to fly all operations in their assigned airplane type.

[whazitdoinnow]

Just tried to be a bit sarcastic, I know the difference. It was just a long day yesterday, flying this cargo airplane commercially. :}

[Labomba]

Hi Grambo,

To be a bit more specific:
As someone just mentioned, you have freighters that give you more (sometimes much more) money than the industry average, pax airlines included (UPS, not too sure about Fed ex, and some companies in Asia...). Then you have some very bad ones too ( too many of them).
What cc the majors, pilots may fly both pax and freighter fleet, no difference ( Air France, Korean, Japan Air Lines B744 pilots,..)
Then, you have f%++kg managers in a few companies who like to start different salary scales, with the freighter pilots on a lower scale..(Cathay,..)

'hope it answers yor question

[USav8or]

Freight Dogs - Pay

Do the pilots get the same as commercial pilots?



Grambo – first of all, “freightdogs ARE commercial pilots, I think you meant to say “do the freightdog (cargo) pilots get the same pay as the passenger pilots?”

The term freightdogs can sometimes be confusing. Many think a freightdog is simply someone who flies cargo as opposed to passengers. If so, FDX, UPS, DHL, Lufthansa Cargo, etc. pilots are freightdogs. However, I’ve been told before that those are “cargo pilots” rather than freightogs.

The difference? Pilots from all the above cargo outfits fly very good, well maintained airplanes, earn descent pay and benefits and have pretty good working schedules. “Real” freightdogs on the other hand often fly single pilot, IFR operations and load and offload their cargo all by themselves.


To answer your question – in the US at least there’s no difference between cargo pilot versus passenger pilot pay. Instead it’s all about whether your company is making money or not. As such FDX and UPS are probably among the highest, if not the highest, paid airline pilots in the US today.
Tomorrow everything can change of course but for now follow the two links and plug in your own numbers and it’ll give you an idea.


http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/fedex.html

For FDX - Put in the hourly rate (for example 2rd year Widebody FO = $140) and multiply by 74. Change the bid period to 12 and it shows about $124,000 for the year. That’s the minimum guarantee. It’ll probably be more but this is minimum you’d make.

Note! Since February of this year FDX imposed a “minimum guarantee cut” – in effect a temporary pay cut on all pilots to prevent furloughs. It’s about 52 hours versus the normal 74; not sure when they’ll go back to the regular guarantee. (So the example above 140*52*12 would’ve been about $87,000 for the year after the reduction)



http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/ups.html

For UPS – take the hourly rate (for example 2nd year FO = $122) and multiply by 81 in a 12 months period (or by 75 if using a 13 months period - 13 pay periods converted to a 12 months period). So about $118,000 for the year. At UPS there's only one aircraft pay scale, 2nd year B757 FO makes the same as a 2nd year B747 FO (well, there's international override pay, etc but that's irrelevant here)

Note! At UPS many pilots took voluntary minimum guarantee reductions, Leaves of Absences, etc, to prevent furloughs of their junior pilots.


Either way, this gives you an idea of how to look up the pay and benefits at two of the largest cargo airlines in the US. That website has pay scales for most airlines based in the US and is usually very accurate.


Are there similar charts anywhere where we could compare what cargo pilots in the EU are making?

[shittykitty]

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/evergreen.html

follow this link to see what a dreamlifter gets paid!

impressive huh

[USav8or]

SK - wow! Granted, the upgrade seem to be pretty quick (most junior captain May 2005) but $90 an hour to fly 747s all over the world? Also, it says the minimum guarantee is only 65 hours? I assume there has to be lots of open time then to make up the low guarantee and rates, correct?

[Devil Man]

Don't forget that most of the non-sched's have pay additives that significantly increase your gross pay above guarantee. So, while 90 bucks an hour on a 65 hour guarantee may not seem a lot.....it generally isn't an indicator of what you'll actually make.

[shittykitty]

trust me there is no over ride or double time. it is what it is. no OT at all. beats unemployment

[USav8or]

SK - wow, that's horrible!!! :(

[Willit Run]

USav8or,

If you were without a job and you were offered a job flying a 747 all over the world, are insinuating that you would not take the job??

Some people have been blessed with good luck in this business, and some have not.

[shittykitty]

YUP that's exactly what i am saying. i would not sign up for this job again. one of the coolest jobs i have ever had, by the way. But the age 65 rule changed any chance of making money here anytime soon. no upgrade here no pay raise
when i signed on it was 3 to 5 year up grade now it will be a decade or better. the rules changed in the middle of the game. made a lot of young guys have to re-asses the career plan. now u can either look for a new job or try and make change where u are.

u are right some people get lucky and sum not, just bad time wrong place for me, it sucks but what can ya do but keep on keep-in on

[cTcPilot]

From my own experience when I started of in the freight world flying a turboprop my basic was around €2600-€2800 before tax and that is ok for anybody straight out of an integrated course like myself and has a training loan to pay back. After my stint on the turboprop I moved on to bigger and better things that is a nice shiney jet and compared to when I first started as an F/O I am now taking home around £3000/ month.
I have freinds in the passenger world though and seem to earn more money then the freight crews!

[USav8or]

"...I have freinds in the passenger world though and seem to earn more money then the freight crews!..."

cTc - make sure you don't compare apples and oranges. Remember - cargo airlines have "regionals" just like the passenger airlines do. Some "regional" pax airlines might pay more than some "regional" cargo outfits and at the same token some "major" cargo airlines might pay more than some "major" pax airlines. Clear as mud? LOL

[PushCentreCommand]

The freighter pilots in Japan take home about twice that of major UK pax airlines. Only about 500 hours flying per year, beautiful new aeroplanes and easy routes. This has to be one of the best flying jobs anywhere.

[USav8or]

"USav8or,

If you were without a job and you were offered a job flying a 747 all over the world, are insinuating that you would not take the job??

Some people have been blessed with good luck in this business, and some have not."

I honestly do not know what I'd do - "what if" scenarios are pointless unless you're actually in the person's shoes. I was simply surprised how little those 747 drivers were getting paid, believe they deserve much more than that. That was my only observation.

As far as some being "blessed with good luck" in this business - I totally agree. I do realize I'm very blessed and take nothing for granted, tomorrow my airline might be going out of business - you never know...

The same applies to everything though... Some people are very blessed in their personal lives, have great wives/husbands, healthy and very smart kids, etc. Personally I'd gladly give up my "blessed job" for the above...

So again, no I was not judging anyone but simply making an observation...

[justcantwait]

Buhuuuu, have to reset their career plan, poor spoiled kids:{

[shittykitty]

when more of the baby boomers are approaching 70 ther will be another retirement age adjustment. fly till ya die.me im ready to retire now and live alittle, this work stuff sucks

[Hogg]

And just to add, the freight Boeings Ive flown have always been in better nick and maintained better than the passenger (seats) aircraft Im currently flying. Miss the freight very much.
These paxs pi*s me off, given up wearing a watch.

[FougaMagister]

"Fly cargo: twice the money, half the hassle!"

Cheers :cool: