Question about Britannia flight routes

[jonesy101]

Good Morning all, long time lurker on the general forums, but hoped some of the ‘more mature!’ posters here could help with a question about Britannia flights to near east.

Background : my father retires this year and I’m putting something together as a celebration.
He was never in the forces but spent from ’69 – ’81 in the Service Children Education Authority teaching in Singapore, Cyprus and Germany. I have the later boxed off but as I didn’t exist in 69!... it’s a bit vague.
Basically I’m after the normal flight route from UK to Singapore for a Britannia. My mother thinks Brize Norton – Akroteri – ??? – Changi. She’s sure they stopped twice it’s the 2nd stop I’m after……….Dad’s a maths teacher / headmaster so I need to get it right !

I know we came back on VC10 Arthur Scarf in ’72 before we went to Cyprus… Amazing to think they’ve been in service as long as I’ve been alive!..... Great great aircraft… if a tad noisy!!!

Many thanks.

[goudie]

Probably RAF Gan

[Chalfonts]

jonesy101

My dad served in Singapore from 64 to 66, we flew out in a Britannia and it landed in Bomaby, India. We flew back via Ceylon, but i'm not sure which aircraft type and they were both in and out of Brize. I now it is before your dads time in Singapore, but it might help jog a few memories. Good luck. Oh by the way did you know that the VC10 is currently the fastest airliner in the world, not bad for an old bird.

[Flitefone]

These people will know the answer... and will even have a suitable photograph.. FF

XM496 at the Kemble Airday 2005. (http://www.geocities.com/littlefield_david/index)

[Shackman]

By '69 the normal Transport Command routing was BZN-Akrotiri-Bahrain (Muharraq)-Gan-Changi, but by this time the regular run was by VC10.

However, by Britannia it was not uncommon to have other stops (Gibraltar, Malta, Tehran, Ceylon/Sri Lanka etc) as the tasking required.

[brakedwell]

I operated the last Britannia schedule from Lyneham on 15th June 1970, so the Changi slip routing in 1969 would have been Lyneham - Akrotiri- Bahrain - Gan- Changi. Sector lengths were approximately 6.45 hrs - 5.45 hrs - 7.15 hrs - 7.00 hrs.

[Brain Potter]

I can't add anything to brakedwell's information about the Brit, but I believe that the routing for the Changi slip was the same for the VC10 albeit with shorter sector times.

Incidentally, it is a myth about the VC10 being the fastest airliner bar Concorde. When she was new the max normal operating mach number was 0.866 which, whilst quick, was not world beating. The Convair 990's normal cruising speed was 0.91M and the B727 and Tuplolev products could cruise faster than the VC10's normal limits. The VC10's speed reputation is rooted in the fact that the never exceed limit was very high at 0.92. However, to achieve this speed the warning horn circuit breakers had to be pulled. This was not a 'normal' condition and the aircraft was only intended to be taken up to such speeds for airtest purposes and to train crews in correcting inadvertent overspeed conditions. The old girl's VNo/MNo and VNe/MNe were reduced in the 1990's for structural reasons and she is now considerably slower than the Boeing 747-400, although still quicker than most Airbus products.

[sled dog]

I concur with Brakedwell, but in my day the route started at Brize.
If a "tourex" flew back with British Eagle ( late `60s ) the routing was Paya Lebar - Bombay - Istanbul - Heathrow. Long legs in the trusty Brit.....

[WHBM]

It's not apparent from the original poster's question whether travel by Britannia was on an RAF example, or on one chartered from civilian operators, for these routed in different ways, the RAF ones via various bases, the civilian ones via various commercial airports.

Most of the civilian Britannia charter flights ended with the bankruptcy of British Eagle at the end of 1968, but a few continued with Monarch into the early 1970s (using the same aircraft of course !), mainly in the winter period when their fleet was not occupied on holiday flights.

[DougGordon]

My fathers log book shows a lot of MOD charter flights to Australia eg:

June 20 1960 Comet C2: Lyneham to El Adem; El Adem to Khormaksar; Kormaksar to Gan; Gan to Changi; Changi to Darwin; Darwin to Edinburgh.(arrived June 25)

Feb 20 1962 Britannia G-ARWZ, BUA: Stansted to Khormaksar; Khormaksar to Colombo; Colombo to Singapore; Singapore to Darwin; Darwin to Adelaide.

In 1962 BUA also used a DC-6 (G-APNP) which also routed through Singapore.

Flights to Australia stopped routing through Singapore/Changi in 1964 I think. However British Eagle charters recommenced passing through Singapore in 1967; flying from Heathrow via Istanbul and Bombay. These flights were, in the main flown by Britannia G-ANCF
There are others.

Hope this helps.

[WHBM]

I think the original flight enquired about was in 1969, and from my notes the long haul passenger-capable Britannia fleet at that time seems to be :

RAF - 22
Monarch - 7
Caledonian - 5

There were also several cargo operators of the type as well that year.

Jonesy, if you can ask your mum .... to help, the RAF ones were grey, the Caledonian livery was dark blue, and Monarch were yellow. The RAF aircraft would certainly have had seats rearward-facing (a fact that many remember), the civilian operators could have had them either way, depending on how long the aircraft was to be in RAF charter service, they used to turn them round for longer contracts.

[brakedwell]

In 1969 RAF Britannia schedules to Changi were configured to carry passengers and freight. If I remember correctly only a few specialist passengers on the Brit schedules travelled all the way to Singapore. Most were destined for enroute staging posts. By 1966/7 daily RAF VC10's were carrying service passengers between Brize and Singapore, so your father must have flown out on a civil Britannia, probably belonging to Monarch.

[WHBM]

Tony Merton-Jones' book on British Independent Airlines provides, as ever, some additional pointers. Caledonian do not seem to have had a share of the MoD work at this time. Monarch in 1969 however had a contract with Britannias routing from both Brize and Lyneham all the way to Perth, Western Australia (probably through Singapore), which they had picked up from the bankrupt British Eagle in 1968, and ran on until 1975, a very late date for Britannia operations. Monarch maintained their Britannia engineering skills at Luton even after the aircraft disappeared from their own fleet, and carried on being the main Brit maintenance provider for the remaining aircraft left flying through the 1980s - the Cubans occasionally ferried their aircraft over to Luton for their services.

[Once_an_Erk]

I went Britsh Eagle in Apr 67 and it was LHR-Kuwait-Colombo-Paya Lebar.
Came back for Mother's funeral in 68 (RAF Brit - half Casevac, half regular Pax) and we went Changi - Gan - Muharraq - Akrotiri - Lyneham A memorable moment was to be seen at Lyneham when the Last Dakota in RAF service arrived at Lyneham as we disembarked and parked right alongside. It had been ferried back from Khomaksar..
Back to FEAF in AOC's VIP Comet , Lyneham - Luqa - Akrotiri - Bombay - Butterworth - Changi ( 4 day trip)
Finally tour-ex in 69 VC-10 Changi - Gan - Akrotiri - Brize