Astronaut Slots

[Hornetboy]

Just wondering.....how many of you guys would take an astronaut slot if offered, over a military flying position?

This question was spurred upon by watching Pensacola - Wings of Gold last night (I know...it's cheesy....but hey). The chick pilot Ice turned down an astronaut slot because she wanted to stay flyin fighters. I thought this was really stupid when I saw her turn down the slot. But then I thought about it....and actually....if I had a spot flying fighters, I don't think I'd give it up for the world!

....or any other worlds....

[JMJ]

Flying fighters, there's nothing like.

[rigid_rotor]

The UK is a member of ESA and so UK nationals are entitled to apply to take part in the ESA astronaut programme. However, where there are candidates of equal merit, priority is generally given to those from countries funding the missions. The UK believes that we get best value for money from unmanned missions so we do not currently fund any manned space missions which, because of the safety requirements, are many times more expensive than those that do not involve human spaceflight.

The most recent astronaut selection was performed in 1998 and was based on the 1991/92 national lists, with the following criteria:

General Requirements: Applicants, male or female, must be nationals of an ESA member state, preferably aged between 27 and 37. Applicants must be within the height range of 153 to 190 cm. They must speak and read English and have a university degree (or equivalent) in natural sciences, engineering, or medicine and preferably at least three years' postgraduate related professional experience or flying experience as a test, military or airline pilot.

[DrSyn]

IAM,I have not seen the movie (?) so do not know the story line. Generally, to become an astronaut one has to apply. A handful succeed where thousands apply. Apart from the early days of Mercury, I have never heard of anyone being "invited" to become an astronaut without first applying and going through the course. I am not aware of any that have applied, been accepted and then turned down the job, but as currently I am in the USA staying with NASA friends, I shall ask out of curiosity.

rigid_rotor's post accurately describes the Euro position and, sadly, the UK's. However, I assume that IAM is from the southern hemisphere. Only US citizens and, as far as I can recall, only test-pilot graduates have ever occupied the pilots' seats on the shuttle. Indeed, every time I read the CV of a Shuttle "rookie" I feel totally under-educated/qualified!

There is a relatively small number of non-US mission and payload specialists from ESA and separate countries that have supported the programme. The only 2 Brits who are career astronauts became US citizens first. They are Michael Foale (ex-King's Canterbury) and Piers Sellers (ex-Cranbrook). Michael has flown several times, including a dangerous tour on MIR, and Piers is slated for STS-112 next year. There is at least one antipodean in similar vein, but I cannot recall his name.

Flights into space are few and far between for an astronaut. The programme is constantly under seige from Congress for funds, even though its effect returns financial benefits to the US economy at a rate of $7+ for every $1 invested by the tax-payer (cf: cancellation of Apollo, ad infinitum). American attention span is very short and the public quickly lose interest (ie: support) after any spectacular space event. There is much talk of reducing the size of the astronaut corps due to the small number of Shuttle flights per year. The T-38s that they use to keep their "hands in" are frequently criticised by US politicians as being expensive toys and taxis, and are under threat.

In spite of all the flags flying here at present the overwhelming majority of the USA couldn't give a damn about their space achievements and its future implications. Here in Titusville, just across from the KSC, most general traders seem to have little or no idea how much the next round of NASA-related layoffs will affect their businesses.

Then there's that 7.1m lbs "controlled" explosion under your backside on launch. . . . . . . It is not a career for the fainthearted.

Only those similar to a tiny handful of our ancestors who wanted to find "what was out there" will ever venture into space in our lifetimes. If I were not so hopelessly unqualified, I would go up there tomorrow.

Meanwhile, I shall just enjoy doing what I do.

[Robert Cooper]

I seem to remember an RAF pilot being selected for shuttle astronaut training some around '83 or '84. Can't rember what happened to that program though, as he never flew.

BC

[BEagle]

His participation was curtailed after the Challenger accident.....

[lightbob]

The AAC had a runner for the first Brit into space, but Helen Sharman got the job ahead of him.

[g.jongeneelen]

All of the above is completely correct. I'm a Lynx pilot for the Netherlands Royal Navy and last year applied for an astronaut position at NASA. You can simply download the application forms from the NASA internet site (Astronaut Selection Office). The only thing is , you will have to have the US citizenship, which i indeed also do not have. NASA does the selection every 2 year, and the ESA has also a simular programm but does the selection only every 5 year. Selection criteria at ESA are almost the same as NASA. :D

[keepin it in trim]

I can think of a couple of pilots I have flown with who really should be sent in to space!!

[Hornetboy]

Well Dr Syn, I know it sounds pretty impossible, but hey.....that's TV. Pensascola - Wings of Gold is actually a tv series about the USMC, and it's really really really hopeless. They use the same footage of fighters over and over again even when it doesn't fit. And you can expect aircraft to miraculously morph into different types somewhere between 2 and 5 times within a single engagement. So don't expect them to have the most accurate info on NASA.

But anyway, in the show it was some feminist thing. The pilot offered the position was a chick. And she was offered a high recommendation by this other woman that was supposedly some big shot up at NASA, ready to make a noise for a female astronaut, which she was certain would be followed up.

Maybe a bit of a far-out situation, but it just got me wondering about links between pilots and astronauts. Very insterested in what your NASA friends say Dr Syn. And Bockywocky, has NASA replied to your app?

[Chris Kebab]

The RAF guy was Nigel Wood who, the last time I paid any attention to that sort of thing, was the Air Cdre in charge of all those fine young blue-suited blades at QinetiQ Boscombe Down. Just doesn't sound right does it?

He is probably known as the Executive Chairman or some other such tosh by now!

[DrSyn]

IAM, thanks for the clarification on Pensacola - W-o-G. Never heard of it, but I'll keep an eye out for what sounds like an unintentional stable-mate of Hot Shots. I like a bit of light relief! I would be curious to know how old or recent this TV series is.

The bottom line is that there are no Shuttle pilots who are not graduates of one or other of the US military Test Pilot Schools, including the 3 ladies who are presently on the pilot payroll and who have quite impressive military backgrounds. As in most fields of human endeavour, it is not unknown for someone to be encouraged to apply for selection but even if your best friend is the NASA Director or Chief Astronaut, you still have to go through one of the most difficult and comprehensive selection procedures in the aerospace industry. No favours. The panel is too wide and varied to allow that to happen.

Believe me, our stratosphere-bound CRM is quite straightforward compared with that of the astronaut corps.

Absolutely no one gets a cold offer of a job, or even a course as Astronaut Candidate (ASCAN) --- I love that acronym -- but one must have sympathy with the TV director's need for artistic or dramatic licence!

However, once successfully graduated to the astronaut office in Houston, I gather that there is a fair amount of "jockeying", shall we say, for a flight assignment. But on this my lips are sealed!

CK, without delving into the archives, I seem to recall that Nigel Wood was one of the last, pre-Challenger, Brit candidates to be put forward for ESA before we lost all interest in that sort of thing. The French, German, Swiss, and many other "partners" have a far more distingished track record for commitment to manned space flight.

As to my earlier memory failure, the Aussie astronaut (MS) is, of course, Dr Andy Thomas (ex-Adelaide) who is one of the few to have been to both MIR and ISS. As with the "Brits", he acquired US citizenship first. I also learned that a third Brit (now US citizen) has recently gone through as MS. He is Dr Nicholas Patrick (ex-Harrow/Cambridge) - born in Yorkshire but "considers London . . . as his home town . . ", according to the blurb. It conjoured up idle thoughts of, "Eh Oop, Youstun, there's trouble at t' mill," or, "'Ere Oost'n, wot's wiv this 'ere then?" I doubt it from Harrow though :)

For those who would rather fly fighters than help to start the first steps to the Final Frontier, you can check out how your ". . could do better . ." school reports ;) match these CVs here (http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/). Having had the pleasure of meeting many of these guys and gals, including 6 of the 12 who walked on the moon, I must say that almost all of them have been among the most approachable, modest and self-effacing people I ever met.

[RRAAMJET]

I had the pleasure of talking to Nick Patrick on the phone a few months ago ( a friend of a close friend ) - he seemed like a really nice chap, and I wish all the best in his endeavours.

[g.jongeneelen]

ItsAllMagic, indeed I've had a nice reply from NASA, and alone the letter with the nice NASA logo on it already made me happy.

But as i said i wasn't a US citizen, so they did not consider my application to be valid. By the way, as far as i can see not all the candidate astronauts are such hotshots. OK so they have a degree (so do i) and they have quite a bit of experience (maybe you do too).

After this i send an e-mail to the ESA to see if they had the same selection procedure. I got a nice e-mail back telling me the procedure was almost the same but only every 5 years and i just missed it, and in 5 years from then i would probably have less chance because of my age...

It was a nice dream, and i have lived it !!! :p

[Hornetboy]

Ahh that's cool Bock. Nuthin like givin it a last shot. Anyways....u're nuts if you choose the big black hole over airplanes. It's better "down" here....in the air ;)

Hey ummm Dr Syn....c'mon give us the stats....u know much too much to be just another ordinary pilot....

[DrSyn]

IAM, I can assure you that I am a very ordinary pilot, as I am sure my colleagues would be the first to testify!

I have had an abiding passion for astronomy and astronautics since childhood and, by chance, during my RAF career in the '70s, I was fortunate to visit Patrick AFB/Canaveral on numerous occasions. This happily led to a number of lifelong friendships with people who work in the US space program (sic).

I also have the pleasure of being a Fellow of the British Interplanetary Society which, like its American Counterpart, actively supports the development of space and in particular manned space flight.

To which stats in particular do you refer?

[Hornetboy]

Oh I s'pose just those stats which explained your acquaintances in high places. I've read a few of those astronaut biographies on the NASA site....they're all pretty amazing people. (....of course....most having been fighter pilots!) :cool: Must be pretty cool meeting, and havin friends with life stories like those huh!