you didn't make the cut & needn't apply again

[FRQ Charlie Bravo]

HA!!! Now that's funny, especially since they probably paid per word or line.

For the benefit of those playing at home - from the AFAP jobs site:
28 SEPTEMBER 2009
CHIEF PILOT-CHIEF FLYING INSTRUCTOR
Bluewater Flight Training is still seeking the right person to fill the position of CP/CFI at our flight school.
Whilst we examined and interviewed many applicants to our last advertisement in July/August, we didn't feel that the person we need was amongst those who replied. If you were one of those who took the time to reply to us, sorry, you didn't make the cut and needn't apply again.


Honesty over couth:ok:

FRQ CB

[Dunnza]

Thats gold!

[Chadzat]

If that means that they did not reply to the applicants until that advert then that is VERY POOR FORM. :ugh:

[morno]

If the Chieftain they had on display at the airshow the other day is anything to go by, then I wouldn't touch them with a 10ft barge pole.

Right hand alternator belt half disintegrated, nose wheel housing cracked, and then when I pointed it out to the dude there, was told "this aircraft is actually in maintenance and goes in tomorrow for repairs". So tell me Bluewater, why was that Chieftain up flying early this morning??

morno

[Jethro Gibbs]

no one replys to applicants anymore they are just f#$%^&* time wasters.:ugh:

[Capetonian]

That's such an appalling, insensitive, and unprofessional response that I wonder if it wasn't placed by someone else trying to discredit the organisation.

About the only mistake they didn't make was publishing the names of the 'unsuccessful' applicants.

[ForkTailedDrKiller]

If you were one of those who took the time to reply to us, sorry, you didn't make the cut and needn't apply again

I guess the "cut" musta cut out, huh?

[Ultralights]

or simply they asked for say min 1000hr ME grade1 and got nothing but fresh grade 3's with 250 hrs in a 152?. http://s3.amazonaws.com/advrider/ne_nau.gif

[VH-XXX]

When we recently advertised a position I was very careful to make sure that I replied to everyone personally. From the comments received from everyone that replied to my reply it sounds like replies are a rareity these days which is very disappointing. It's not that hard to hit the reply button and paste something in, even if it is unpersonalised.

Employers - It's also good when you tell the applicant how many people applied and with what kind of experience they had and what they would need to have been considered for the position as usually one would have no idea.

[40Deg STH]

Just for interest sake, I looked at their web site. It appears they have a biz jet according to their add. Is it for real or just another 2bit operator playing themselves up? They will no doubt say they have access to one. Well having once been in the biz jet world, we alll have access to one for the right price and can crosshire from many companies.
They also suggest their instructors have many years airline or military flying. So which one of the 3 names on their web site has "many hours airline and which one has "many hours" military.
Is it just another company offering to make "AIRLINE" pilots if you train with them.
I worry about young pilots looking for a good flying school, it was the same 30 years ago when I did my commercial sadly and the training industry still lags behind the rest of aviation sections.:ugh:
We can only hope 1 day it will catch up.

[tmpffisch]

Is it just another company offering to make "AIRLINE" pilots if you train with them.


This pic always cracks me up (it's a DA40)

http://www.tristaraviation.com.au/images/da40_e_thumb.jpg

Kudo's if anyone can guess which school's website it's from...(actually, please don't; shouldn't have the thread drift)

XXX is right, a bit of feedback after submitting a resume/application is very handy for an applicant, instead of finding out that they didn't make the cut in "The Australian"...

[Dunnza]

Come on guys.

When I recently took two pilots on I clearly stipulated what I wanted for a Chief pilot including min hours etc.

Do you know what I got? Several applications that were no where near the required or the aircraft I wanted [I even got a freshly CPL holder]

Those who were close, or over qualified got a response which I though was fair saying they were unsuccesful and why.

When I asked for a newbie, I got over 240 applications. Yes 240applications and I responded to every single one so 239 of them!!!!!

[Dunnza]

Cant see the aircraft, its down for maintenance

[AVIATOR1982]

Tmpffisch the pick is from Tristar Aviation, thats pretty funny......

[Metro man]

They must be offering fantastic terms and conditions if they can afford to be so fussy. :hmm:

[VH-XXX]

What's so funny about that pic???? I always wear my Captain's when flying a light twin around. Looking forward to the new twin Tecnam so I can wear it in that, will be the smallest I've flown with Captain hat on my noggen.

[SM227]

Thank you VH-XXX & Dunnza, for taking the time to reply to people. I think I've contacted around +40 companys all over the place and have got about 10 or so replys, almost all were places that had mins of +1000hrs (oops! :O ). One CP even had a chat to me for 5 minutes asking about my plan of attack, gave me a few pointers, and wished me luck!

Always remember you are representing a company when dealing with any of the public, be them customers or potental employees, you never know when you might cross paths in the future and find yourself on the wrong end of the stick. Who knows? I might end up a billionare one day and want to charter a plane around the world 10 times, I bet you can guess who I'll be ringing :ok:

[AVIATOR1982]

@VH-XXX thats also pretty funny, except its not even a twin......

On a side note any of you guys know where I can get myself a hat like that? I fancy playing airline captain in my 172.

[40Deg STH]

AVIATOR1982, I have one but its crushed in the bottom of my bag. It raining here and I'm off to work soon so might find it to keep my hair dry........naaahhh.

[VH-XXX]

Whoops. I was confused with that plastic twin with the big pole out the front that I saw flying around down here recently.

[sms777]

C'mon XXX .....What's wrong flying a twin with Lycomings? You can wear five stripes and we will still salute you! :D

[Polymer Fox]

When I asked for a newbie, I got over 240 applications. Yes 240applications and I responded to every single one so 239 of them!!!!!

That's a horribly sobering reality check (I'm just about to finish up my CPL flying). I didn't realise there were so many fresh CPL holders out to find a job.

What was the experience range of those looking for a newbie position? Understandably I'd imagine there would be a plethora of 152 and Warrior bandits applying, but what were some of the higher experience levels/competencies that people had reached before looking for their first position?

[Mr.Buzzy]

Relax Max! 230 of those are Kiwis and they won't pass the Inglish Tist!

Bbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzz

[framer]

230 of those are Kiwis and they won't pass the Inglish Tist!:ok:
lol most ironic thing i've heard in ages:Dwonkabeautycrackaripperbonzagrouse:D

[Mr. Hat]

Dunnza and XXX its all about karma. I see some good things on the horizon for you guys. It is in fact incredibly rare for a ga company to repond to job applications given the sheer numbers of people sitting in syd mel bne trying to get a job by sending out letters. It really speaks volumes of your respective organisations. That is not to say that if a ga company doesn't reply that they are not a good organisation! As dunnza points out the number of letters received can be significant.

Polymer do not let these numbers put you off. 95% are people that will not leave home.They are the types that might be spotted regularly turning up to uni in uniform (the opposite sex thing you are queit stupid).

I worked for a ga company that was a bit out of the way once and was amazed at how few people actually knocked on the door looking for a job. Plenty of letters though. We only kept the ones that were near the minimum requirement or ones that showed promise (likely 1 page followed up with a call and a visit then an update).

[tmpffisch]

When I asked for a newbie, I got over 240 applications. Yes 240applications and I responded to every single one so 239 of them!!!!!

I worked for a ga company that was a bit out of the way once and was amazed at how few people actually knocked on the door looking for a job.

Out of interest Dunnza, how many actually came to see you in person?

[Mr. Hat]

Yep, tmpffisch is on to it.

[Dunnza]

Roughly as I lost count? About 40ish

[longrass]

You really are cynical aren't you, perhaps you should change ur name to oblivious pilot, or turkey pilot. You have no idea do you.

If I get an email in my construction business with resume attached, I'll generally ignore it. If I get a phone call I'll read it and if they come in I'll interview them. If you say that the industry employment process is not fair or open I suggest you open your eyes. I put adds in the paper and get about 50 calls, about 20 of those send resumes and only about 5 will bother to ASK for some of my time to come in and tell me why I should employ them and generally 2 of those will ask for a trial.

If pilots want a job they should email, phone, call in, ask for an interview and ask for a trial, NOT a job. (kiwis should continue what they are doing and leave).

The process is fair, it weeds out the mummas boys and allows for those who truly want a job to get one.

If you can't afford to hit the road then don't winge about it. Borrow money, or get a job labouring for three months a save, then hit the road on greyhound with a tent and then on a push bike if you are still poor.

[AussieNick]

longrass in a sense i agree with you. but the thing is, at the end of the day, the poor newbie CPL is going to have to up and move to another state/territory and there is still the chance, that once they get to their new base, spend heaps of cash to get themselves and their gear up here, flunk the S&P and get told that they arn't right for that company and their still in the same boat as they would be if they just moved up here in the first place. At least if they make the effort to move up here first, get themselves a part time job stacking shelves or serving in a bar to make ends meet, go and chew the fat and build up a good reputation and then score that first job.

[Chadzat]

(kiwis should continue what they are doing and leave).

Haha. Brilliant

[Mr. Hat]

Cynical I think its purely a supply and demand thing. I've worked in all sorts of industries and most places favour people that will try to meet the people that do the hiring and firing face to face.

The place that I worked was not that far from a major centre, lets say 3 hours one way by car. An ugly, hot, expensive, ****hole however.

I certainly wasn't rolling in cash being many many thousands in debt through various loans and institutions combined with the baked beans on toast thing. Juggling credit, food , accom loans ect.

You would be horrified to hear that several times during my career I've made journeys involving literally days of driving and/or buying an expensive airfare to walk in and shake the CP's hand hand over my one page CV and leave. And then do it all again to get the rating/course/ticket that they had as min requirement when a job came up.

I guess it comes down to how much you want it. Had a mate spend 50k on a licence but couldn't get past the cost of accommodation in the north west so he gave up. An interesting investment strategy indeed.

This is the reality of the industry. As a previous poster points out it weeds out those that really want it to those that REALLY want it. And given the work/conditions/situations when you get it you've got to R E A L L Y want it and my mate that gave up did himself and everyone else a favour because he just didn't have what it takes.

You will find a way that works for you.

[j3pipercub]

When will aviation get like every other industry in this country and have a fair and open job application process?

When we no longer do it for the love...

P.S. For that money, I'll be their bongo driver...

[Dunnza]

All for people coming in and saying hello while handing over there resume. But most employers dont want to read a boring yet another dull cv and resume.

The guy that I took on and a fresh CPL is 38years old and wanted a career change!

You know why he got the job?

On his resume he thought outside the box, he engaged me in his covering letter to the extent I picked up the phone and asked for him to come in for a time that was convient to him. He rocked up within 30mins!

[The_Pharoah]

aha! so there IS a chance for us 30-something-career-changers! :}

[Dunnza]

ex Stock Broker!

[The_Pharoah]

so I'm hoping a soon-to-be-ex-group financial controller should have other skills to add than just flying (esp around c/flow mgmt and forecasting which is THE most important aspect for any business) :}

[NOSIGN]

When a job is advertised requesting that applications be emailed or completed on a website, I will not ring and follow up - indeed to save the employer the time to answer a plethora of phone calls. Sounds like I have been doing something wrong Mr Hat :confused:

[Cap'n Arrr]

You would be horrified to hear that several times during my career I've made journeys involving literally days of driving and buying an expensive airfare to walk in and shake the CP's hand hand over my one page CV and leave.

Just got back from doing all that. Hoping I might have better luck when I do the follow up calls. Or failing that when the dry comes back around... :ok:

[AnyGivenSunday99]

The industry has been like this since day one. You knew it when you signed up. If you don't like it, go be a bus driver or something else where everyone is nice to you, and you can eat cake whenever you want. Let the rest of us who are passionate about this industry carry on in peace.

Toughen up for christs sake.

[Mr. Hat]

aha! so there IS a chance for us 30-something-career-changers!Damned right there is Pharoah and don't let anybody tell you otherwise.

NOSIGN I didn't make that many calls until I'd already hit the road and got a feel for what the operator was like. Sure I made a few but overall its the driving out and handshake that does the most in my book. Sometimes you'll get lucky when you call up and the receptionist might put you on to a senior pilot and or line pilot. Generally these guys and gals are great to talk to as they know what its like and what is going where.

Capn'Arr - just keep at it. I'd stay tuned if I were you as recruiting is about to start again and you want to keep your name familiar (just dont over do it). Networking pprune ect.

Cynical - I know what you mean and agree with you but it is the way it is. To be honest I don't think 60 minutes would do it justice - 4 Corners or "The Investigators" (golden show from the 80's) would be my preference. The topics would be varied and sleep/fatigue and airport security would be my pick.

[dik cheney]

kiwis should continue what they are doing and leaveWhen are you guys going to get over the fact we are here to stay? There's heaps of kiwis flying in aus, working jobs which would otherwise be yours......................kiwis 1, aussies nil....sucked in :}

[frigatebird]

M a a a a te, If youre working in Aus youre not a Kiwi anymore, youre already more than half Aussie. N.Zed is only the holiday trip where you can dance that tongue poking dance with the Rellies :E

[Mr. Hat]

Worked with a kiwi brother in a trade in another life. He was F$@#g excellent. Best worker ever made the rest of us look silly.

[psycho joe]

DICTATOR - EGOMANIACAL

Small third world country seeks despotic dictator to start immediately.

The successful candidate will have a god complex, consider themselves to be a big fish in a small pond and generally confer an air of extreme arrogance & superiority over their loathsome minions.

As a prerequisite all applicants must have prior experience as a recruiter in an insignificant General Aviation company. :rolleyes:

[el_capitano]

Psycho Joe where do I send a resume for the Dictators Job, sounds great, hey then I can read about it on AFAP wether or not I made the cut....:ugh::ugh:

[VH-XXX]

Of that 20 there are maybe 3 available at short notice.

You're not wrong. The early bird gets the worm on nearly every occasion except perhaps maybe a CFI or Chief Pilot Type Role. Of the 200'ish applications you'd be hard pressed to find someone who can start within a week particularly if they need to relocate, so if you're prepared to move at short notice, you'll be laughing. 50% of the applicants I've seen live overseas eg Solomons, PNG etc and want to come back to OZ. I feel sorry for these applicants as whilst you may have the required hours and experience, moving countries quickly is not a valid prospect.

[Maloo]

Quote from AnyGiven Sunday99

Dry your freakin eyes guys....
The industry has been like this since day one. You knew it when you signed up. If you don't like it, go be a bus driver or something else where everyone is nice to you, and you can eat cake whenever you want. Let the rest of us who are passionate about this industry carry on in peace.
Toughen up for christs sake.


So did everybody here know what the industry was like when they signed up for their first lesson? Or even their first medical? I know when I started I had no idea until I was about 18, when I joined a commercial flying school, already having a PPL. You can be passionate about something, but passion doesn't pay the bills or provide a comfortable living. If you aren't interested in making a good living out of this profession, perhaps flying should be a hobby.

I couldn't help but laugh when I read the job ad then looked at the website. There has been a high turnover in that company for the last few years. The aircraft are dodgy and the boss who is the son, is a narcissist who had the company bought for him and has the required qualifications to be the CP/CFI himself but doesn't want to do the testing.


Maloo

[senshi]

Sounds like OP's normal at Bluewater.. and RK, ever the consummate professional..

S