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2p!ssed2drive
27th Sep 2009, 03:47
Just want to hear from the guys at GOGAT, what its really like to fly there?

I see the latest on AFAP is they are looking for drivers.

I just need to know weather it's worth going for.. and ultimately leaving my stable job to join Tiger.

Inside information only thanks :ok:

Mr.Buzzy
27th Sep 2009, 04:34
You won't be able to afford the booze to be "Too pi55ed to drive" You'll probably be "Too tired to drive"
Hang on...... "Too tired to catch the bus" ...... Hang on, bus tickets are about 4 dollars right?...."Too tired to walk home":}:}:}:}:}:}:}

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2p!ssed2drive
27th Sep 2009, 05:47
Thanks to those who are PM'ing me with some great and useful info
Cheers :ok:

Track5milefinal
27th Sep 2009, 07:09
Is the interview process the same as any other domestic carrier?

Simcheck psych test and the like?

Transition Layer
27th Sep 2009, 08:01
Crew meals anyone?

http://www.go-cat.co.uk/images/toprhs_products.jpg

moonball
28th Sep 2009, 00:18
Just how bad are the conditions?

Track5milefinal
28th Sep 2009, 12:02
Another Tiger thread that turns into a Sh!tslinging match

Great Help Guys :D

Metro man
28th Sep 2009, 13:06
I just need to know weather it's worth going for.. and ultimately leaving my stable job to join Tiger.

Depends how good your current job is. If you're flying a C402 it would be worth the move, If you're captain on a G550 with good T&Cs, unless you really want to fly an airliner, probably not.

boocs
28th Sep 2009, 13:25
What's this about a 10% pay cut (or is that just in Singapore?)
b.

psycho joe
28th Sep 2009, 14:20
Is it true that their pilots pay for their own airport parking? :hmm:


Is it true that the Flight Centre guy flys for Tiger? :hmm:

Is it true that "sometimes you bite the tiger and sometimes it bites you"? :hmm:

Is it true that "on time performance" is something that only "other airlines" aspire to? :hmm:

Is it true that they only have one flyable aircraft & that the others are static displays, made of papier mache and bits of wire and painted with dulux "factory second's" paint? :hmm:

Normasars
28th Sep 2009, 22:36
Yeah it's all true except for the Dulux paint.

It's Wattyl.:ok:

74world
28th Sep 2009, 22:38
G'day,

Would anyone knows who to contact at Tiger for a DEC position and what the terms and conditions are? thank you in advance.

Ps: I am after some REAL info, not crap from frustrated pilots.

Dropt McGutz
28th Sep 2009, 22:47
What? Too good to be an FO?? Get in the que like everybody else Sonny Jim! :suspect:

Skybus_319
28th Sep 2009, 23:00
G'day,
Would anyone knows who to contact at Tiger for a DEC position and what the terms and conditions are? thank you in advance.

It would help if you knew someone inside, otherwise apply via the website. T&C's are a little rough to some, but Pay is not that bad. Overnights are minimal with only 1/2 red-eye scheduled flights a week so you are home most nights starting early Oct.

Beeroclock
29th Sep 2009, 01:18
If you have to pay for your own uniform does it matter what kind of uniform you buy?? What a laugh The Joker in the cabin and Batman and Robin up front that will teach them to make you pay for everything..How much do you pay per hour to work for Tiger??

If anyone does have there conditions could they please post them for all to see..

Cheers

Metro man
29th Sep 2009, 01:22
DECs should be taken on only if there are no FOs suitable for upgrade at the time. Many of the DEC in Tiger AU were previously Captains in Tiger SIN and therefore had a known recent history, some were also ex Ansett or had flown in Australia before and had the required licence/passport.

New start ups always need DECs but at the moment you'd be behind the suitable F/Os and those coming from Singapore. Unfortunately it's an employers market at the moment.

QATAR or ETIHAD for DEC possibly early next year but worth getting the application in now.

email for TR recruitment is pilotcubs at tigerairways dot com

74world
29th Sep 2009, 01:40
Hi Metro man,

"DECs should be taken on only if there are no FOs suitable for upgrade at the time'.....

Well I guess they don't have enough "suitable FOs" since they are advertising for DEC :cool:

Before you mention QATAR or ETIHAD, go to the F****** Middle East and take a look for yourself....I have!

Cheers

2p!ssed2drive
29th Sep 2009, 02:54
that'll teach me for asking an honest question on pprune....

:bored:

Metro man
29th Sep 2009, 03:28
Well I guess they don't have enough "suitable FOs" since they are advertising for DEC

Fair enough then but worth considering:
1. Pay for your own rating. Easier for a DEC with previous Airbus experience to go straight in to the left seat, your profile says B744.
2. Got an Australian licence/passport already ? If not consider how your work visa application will go with a fair number of Aussie pilots unemployed.
3. Low cost, therefore IF you're in a full service airline expect a bit of a surprise when it comes to the terms and conditions.
4. Main base is Melbourne, secondary Adelaide possibly others in the future. Do you really want to be in Melbourne when you could live in nicer places such as Doha or Abu Dhabi instead ?;)

Mr.Buzzy
29th Sep 2009, 04:04
4. Main base is Melbourne, secondary Adelaide possibly others in the future. Do you really want to be in Melbourne when you could live in nicer places such as Doha or Abu Dhabi instead ?
Metro man is online now Reply

This is a joke right?

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74world
29th Sep 2009, 05:05
Metro man, sorry mate I forgot to update my profile on Prune, I do hold a command on A320&A330 + PIC on type, and YES also an Aussie licence. :ok:

I also worked for a low cost Airline some years ago so I know what to expect.

Metro man
29th Sep 2009, 05:41
With that you should be well up on the list. If it's going to be a retirement job for a few years and you know what to expect then why not. A few ex airline drivers hit by age 60 limits where they were working are in there, as are one or two who got sick of China Airlines/EVA Air.

otto the grot
29th Sep 2009, 05:58
Tiger employing is F*****G excellent news. Bring it on. We all need some good news.

And with Jetstar on the verge of doubling there 330 fleet, things are starting to look a bit positive for once.

Maybe we'll have the upper hand again soon when EBAs come up for negotiation.

Aussie
29th Sep 2009, 06:00
Now thats optimistic thinking.....

Beeroclock
29th Sep 2009, 06:09
Yeah great flock to the companies offering rubbish thinking how it will all change when things pick up..Dreaming..:ugh:

MrSheffield
29th Sep 2009, 07:23
If anyone does have there conditions could they please post them for all to see..


F/O

75K base
$36 per flight hour
$20K bonus every 3 yearsCAPT

112K base
$75 per flight hour
$30K bonus every 3 years_______________________________

$40 uniform allowance per month
5 in every 15 days OFF (minimum)
10 or 15K bond for 2 years
10 sickies per year
25 days annual leave per year
Time to command for suitable pilots: 12 months in Tiger or 1000hrs A320Pay your own uniform, parking & meals. Expect 800-1000 hrs per year.

Metro man
29th Sep 2009, 07:55
Any airlines still around offering decent conditions ? Ideally I'd like:

1. All training, including initial licence paid for.
2. Good salary
3. Working 5-600 hours a year.
4. 5* hotels and good allowances on night stops
5. Good staff travel, Capt. First/FO Business class confirmed
6. Retire at 55-60 on an inflation proof pension.

Something like British Airways 1970s appeals. Do these type of conditions still exist anywhere ?

BombsGone
29th Sep 2009, 07:57
Thanks Mr Sheffield for the the info. Have to admit that I would never start out in this business if a Captaincy at Tiger was the best pay and conditions I could ever expect!

haughtney1
29th Sep 2009, 08:41
Metroman...the only jobs that exist like that anymore are high end corporate, or a contract here and there.
I'm about to sign on the dotted line for a 757/767 job that offers all of the requested perks..except its only for 6 months at a time(renewable).
With regards to a pension, look offshore in the various tax havens around the world and look at index linked investment funds....a much better rate of return, and by inference...inflation adjusted!

MrSheffield
29th Sep 2009, 09:43
Tiger have attracted a lot of guys from overseas to return to Australia after earning the coin abroad.

For ~180K a year a Captain in MEL can operate on on a 5on/4off/5on/2off fixed roster and be home everynight.

For ~105K an FO can upgrade alot quicker than say the Virgin or Qantas. Some have found themselves Command with no prior jet experience in under 18 months.

Not all about $$$, I don't see the point in bagging their T&Cs, to my understanding its very comparable to Jetstar and probably a tad lower than say VB, but with the perks mentioned above. If you dont like it, don't apply, coz Tiger certainly have no shortage of applications on their desks.

Dont Jetstar and VB make you pay for endo too? (whether salary sacrafice or not).

I guess if you want the best work for QF. But good luck with that!

psycho joe
29th Sep 2009, 11:15
Pay your own uniform, parking & meals. Expect 800-1000 hrs per year:ugh::D

Some have found themselves Command with no prior jet experience in under 18 months.

Great....Then what?

Go overseas to earn a decent living...and when you're sick of that...

Tiger have attracted a lot of guys from overseas to return to Australia after earning the coin abroad.

...Perpetuate the cycle. :rolleyes:


Not all about $$$

Or sick days...or holidays...or a parking spot...or a company uniform...or adequate sustenance...or... :hmm:

Mr. Hat
29th Sep 2009, 11:19
or

ATW Daily News (http://atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=18026)

Tiger Airways, ST Aerospace to bring MPL license to Singapore
Tuesday September 29, 2009
Resource Center

ST Aerospace announced yesterday that its commercial pilot training operation ST Aviation Training Academy has partnered with Singapore-based LCC Tiger Airways for A320 pilot training under STATA's Multi-crew Pilot License curriculum.

STATA was created by ST Aerospace two years ago to respond to projected demand for significant numbers of new pilots in the Asia/Pacific region over the next 20 years (ATWOnline, Sept. 5, 2007).

The MPL program with Tiger will launch with six cadet pilots and last approximately two years, STATA said. Students will undergo ground school in Singapore and flight training in Ballarat, Australia, before returning to Singapore for flight training in a multicrew environment. Last year an Australian subsidiary of STATA acquired the Bruce Hartwig Flying School (ATWOnline, Sept. 1).

STATA said that upon program completion it will "validate the trial in close collaboration with major industry players [including] national aviation authorities, educational institutions, simulation experts and renowned aviation professionals." The six students are expected to graduate together and will receive an MPL issued by the Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore.

On successful completion of the course, Tiger will provide the selected trainees with "Conditional Contracts of Employment, subject to the MPL license that will be issued by CAAS, the trainees meeting the carrier's stringent flying standards and the prevalent pilot requirement of the airline."

PUSSYPOWER33
29th Sep 2009, 12:49
Very hard to come across an Airline with zero overnights. The Tiger Adelaide base overnights are gone as of next week and Melbourne base will have 1 or 2 flights a week as Skybus_319 mentioned when new Summer schedules start next week.

There still are many F/Os waiting for a command upgrade, most who held a Captain position before TT and had to settle for a F/O slot. So bit of a wait yet.

Dont Jetstar and VB make you pay for endo too? (whether salary sacrafice or not).
Yes except J* charges some outrageous price for a few sim rides :ugh:

Metro man
29th Sep 2009, 14:48
Go overseas to earn a decent living...and when you're sick of that...

Not just Tiger, why stick around in Australia with the deteriorating conditions and stratospheric tax rates. Get the endorsement on a B737/A320 1000hrs on type, find a decent airline overseas (admittedly getting more difficult). Enjoy a rewarding career, cash up, return home, fly for a few more years then retire to Cairns/Cooly/NSW North coast.

Barramundi
30th Sep 2009, 06:32
I note from the ad/website for pilots that Tiger will only call those shortlisted for an interview "due to the high number of applications".

Anyone know when they will start making contact with these people??.

ozbiggles
1st Oct 2009, 02:04
Pay to park your car at your own work?
We really are in a race to the bottom.
I used to like to encourage kids to become pilots. I honestly can't do it anymore.

greenslopes
1st Oct 2009, 02:43
Most workers who use a car to get to work have to pay for parking. A carpark as part of the 'package' is not that common. Most people who go to work have to pay for their clothes, at least as you wear a uniform it is a tax deduction.
The days of a great contract may be out the window, but how many people enjoy the privilege of actually loving the work they do?
The Glory days are well and truly gone, I wish they weren't but as Ned Kelly said "Such is Life".

Water Wings
1st Oct 2009, 02:54
Pay your own uniform, parking & meals. Expect 800-1000 hrs per year.

Christ.

Even backward G.A. companies in little old NZ provide free parking and uniforms!!:}

hongkongfooey
1st Oct 2009, 04:00
Metro, come to Dragon, I think it meets/exceeds all your wishes ( and you don't need an endorsement ) :ok:
On the down side, you have to live in Hong Kong, breathe the air ( some days can be literally cut with a knife ) and have the pleasure of working at an airline that is stuck in the 50s WRT to training, that is to say, there is none :{ ( that said, most of the Checkies are quite practical within the bounds of the CADs last century thinking )
If CX don't completely destroy our outfit, we should be hiring again in 2 years :confused:
There is ALWAYS a price to be paid my friend
Cheers

psycho joe
1st Oct 2009, 04:25
Most workers who use a car to get to work have to pay for parking. A carpark as part of the 'package' is not that common.

I'd love to be corrected, but I don't know of any full time airport staff that pay for airport parking. That includes security, cleaners, food & beverage staff, airside workers, police, airport management, airline management, etc. But if you're a GoKat pilot...:ugh:

Most people who go to work have to pay for their clothes

I'd love to be corrected, but I don't know of any full time airport staff that pay for uniforms. That includes security, cleaners, food & beverage staff, airside workers, police, airport management, airline management, etc. But if you're a GoKat pilot...:ugh:

ozbiggles
1st Oct 2009, 04:26
Howdy Greenslopes
Allow me to expand a little. This is based on the assumption too that what has been said about a particular airline having its staff pay for parking at an AIRPORT is true.
I can't imagine any Qantas, Ansett, Cathay etc pilot ever agreeing to a having to pay for parking at an airport.
However, if true a new LCC is doing exactly that, no doubt it helps pay for $9 tickets that no airline business can sustain. The other thing that helps that is employing fewer people at lower rates. Aircraft costs/Fuel/Nav charges/Taxes don't change between airlines, the only place to save costs is through T and Cs
It may be a small thing, but its just another lap on the way down. Paying for uniforms to paying for your own endorsement after having paid for all your own training in the first place.
The accountants who run airlines now must laugh over beers and wines every day.
On a practical point too most people who pay for parking work in towns where there are workable options of public transport or parking and walking a distance and probably have normal working hours. None of which apply at any Australian airport.
Is it a whinge, you bet.
Am I doing something about it....yep, well maybe.
Not a dig at any one airline either, there all guilty. Look at the big Q, no dividend but give the out going CEO 11plus million for leaving the place in a condition that seems to require the new CEO to make many changes.
Back to searching the web for a new direction....

rmcdonal
1st Oct 2009, 05:01
I'd love to be corrected, but I don't know of any full time airport staff that pay for airport parking. That includes security, cleaners, food & beverage staff, airside workers, police, airport management, airline management, etc. But if you're a GoKat pilot..
Jetstar Pilots pay for parking.

tipan13
1st Oct 2009, 05:28
Quote:For ~105K an FO can upgrade alot quicker than say the Virgin or Qantas. Some have found themselves Command with no prior jet experience in under 18 months.

Not all about $$$, I don't see the point in bagging their T&Cs, to my understanding its very comparable to Jetstar and probably a tad lower than say VB, but with the perks mentioned above. If you dont like it, don't apply, coz Tiger certainly have no shortage of applications on their desks.

Dont Jetstar and VB make you pay for endo too? (whether salary sacrafice or not).

I am amazed that all anybody ever thinks about is jumping into the Left Hand Seat..... DO you think an FO that has no prior jet time would be a suitable Captain in 12-18 months?....in order to become a good captain it takes plenty of experience and in order to gain this it takes time.
Everybody is in such a rush to do so that they are forgetting one of the very reasons we ALL became airline pilots...LIFESTYLE !!!!! in order to live a decent one you must earn good money.....
I for one would rather buy a case of beer with my money as opposed to paying to park a car that I cant afford because I took a job with such poor conditions :ok:

Angle of Attack
1st Oct 2009, 05:49
WTF? Paying for parking? Tiger and Jetstar pilots really have to pay for parking or is this a windup? What sort of dollars are they looking at per year?
One of my mates sons works at Hungry Jacks at the airport and gets free parking! lol!

Transition Layer
1st Oct 2009, 05:54
What's all this about car parking?

I haven't driven my car to work in over a year.

Gotta love those "legacy airline" EBAs. :}

Cunning_Stunt
1st Oct 2009, 05:56
The Jetstar Tech and Cabin Crew get onto the Qantas bus here in Melbourne from the Qantas Employees Car Park. Free for everyone

Dropt McGutz
1st Oct 2009, 06:15
Except Qantas probably picks up the tab for Jetstars use of the carpark!

Captain Dart
1st Oct 2009, 06:41
Australian-based Cathay Pacific pilots have to pay for their own airport parking. I guess that's what happens when you work for a company run by Scotsmen and Chinese!

Reeltime
1st Oct 2009, 07:02
What's so good about no overnights anyway?

Day in, day out drive to work, flog around doing 4 sectors thru all our wonderful third world airspace and airports...then turn up the next day to do it all again. I suppose you do get to spend every night with the misus and kids (if you have them), but jeez....is that a good thing? 365 days a year?

Doing a decent days flying, then following it with a few cold ones, and maybe a steak (or satay!) in some exotic location, is one of the rewards of being an airline pilot, I would have thought.

The_Pharoah
1st Oct 2009, 07:20
"The accountants who run airlines now must laugh over beers and wines every day."

Accountants don't run airlines...General Managers, the CEO, the Board, executive VPs, etc...all those people with fancy titles who get paid 1000 times more than the average australian...THATS who runs the airlines, not accountants.

Not sticking up for accountants...just telling it like it is.

YoDawg
1st Oct 2009, 07:42
Maybe what it comes down to is, will Tiger throw a good staff Christmas party?

What? Too good to be an FO?? Get in the que like everybody else Sonny Jim!

The Tiger website careers page plainly says they're looking for direct entry captains.

The word is "queue". A "cue" is a pointy stick used when playing billiards.


Great....Then what?

Go overseas to earn a decent living...and when you're sick of that...
...Perpetuate the cycle. :rolleyes:

Or sick days...or holidays...or a parking spot...or a company uniform...or adequate sustenance...or... http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/yeees.gif


What are you suggesting then, Joe? All pilots (in the world) will ban Tiger Airways and not fly for them?

What do you suggest is done about this cycle you mention?

Or are you merely trying to help people make up their minds by pointing out all that?

gmallard
1st Oct 2009, 08:04
Does anyone know more details with the annual leave?

• 25 days annual leave per year are the 5 in every 15 days OFF (minimum) included with annual leave bit like an office worker that works in 5 days blocks with 2 days off. Hence bringing the leave up to more like 5 weeks.

Angle of Attack
1st Oct 2009, 09:19
Cunning Stunt,
Yeah and in Brisbane they do to, thats why I am curious whether this is actually true or a few fools telling porkies! If you commute then thats fair enough but do any Jetstar or GoKat pilots pay for parking in their own base? I doubt it, although I have been surprised before!

abc1
1st Oct 2009, 10:27
As for geeenslopes-pilots aren't all the same as most people so please refrain from comparing my to other types of employment and profession.It takes a lot of effort to get to where I am or should I have chosen to work in the city in marketing and resent achievers instead?
Do bring on the MPL, the macc's of the sky until they start dropping out of the sky.I do wonder why SQ spend gazzilions on lear training after ab-inito?Look at Adam air's training and way of inflight management.Short term gain long term loss is the way of the MPL.
Latent failure in the making.

virgindriver
1st Oct 2009, 10:54
Jetstar Pilots pay for parking.

Not in Brisbane. Nobody would pay for the below par bus service we get..

psycho joe
1st Oct 2009, 11:26
What are you suggesting then, Joe? All pilots (in the world) will ban Tiger Airways and not fly for them?

What do you suggest is done about this cycle you mention?

Or are you merely trying to help people make up their minds by pointing out all that?

Let me spell it out.

As unpopular as the truth may be, the reason why airline pay & conditions have gone down hill in this country is due largely to returning expats.

Cue circus music

Cashed up expats wanting to return home at all costs have accepted lower conditions than the median (because they can afford to).

This in turn has created a new norm in Pay & Conditions (lower).

Therefore if an Australian Pilot wishes to be cashed up they are forced to go overseas.

These new cashed up expats will eventually want to return home at all costs and can afford to except lower conditions than the median because they are cashed up.

This in turn creates a new norm in Pay & Conditions (lower)....


The cycle only stops when the Pay & Cond are so bad that no-one wants to live here........ Like New Zealand:E

hongkongfooey
1st Oct 2009, 11:58
Cashed up expats wanting to return home at all costs have accepted lower conditions than the median (because they can afford to).
I think you will find that the likes of Tiger, VB and Jestar have a lot more( relatively ) low time pilots with stars in their eyes than cashed up expats, in Tigers case proven by the fact they need DECs.
I don't really blame anyone for taking a job flying a shiny jet for around 100K a year when they are probably flying some death trap for half that.

Doing a decent days flying, then following it with a few cold ones, and maybe a steak (or satay!) in some exotic location, is one of the rewards of being an airline pilot, I would have thought.
Yeh, maybe 20 years ago, have you spoken to any VB pilots lately ? Exotic locations like Launie, Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide :{
Of course there's always longhaul where you can spend your 36hrs off recovering from jet lag and preparing for the next 14hr leg :yuk:

Skybus_319
1st Oct 2009, 12:51
I am amazed that all anybody ever thinks about is jumping into the Left Hand Seat..... DO you think an FO that has no prior jet time would be a suitable Captain in 12-18 months?....in order to become a good captain it takes plenty of experience and in order to gain this it takes time.
It does take plenty of experience, and that is something the majority of Tiger F/O's have. Alot were captains before coming down under back in 2007, but had to settle for F/O slots. There are many at the moment who have more experience on type than Captains, but awaiting aircraft arrivals then those will get those their commands.

What's so good about no overnights anyway?
Go do a couple per week over a few years and come back to me...

I think you will find that the likes of Tiger, VB and Jestar have a lot more( relatively ) low time pilots with stars in their eyes than cashed up expats, in Tigers case proven by the fact they need DECs.
Tiger Australia does not need DECs at the moment, why is it listed on the website? Primarily to generate interest for future aircraft arrivals. Deliveries at the moment go right through to 2016 if anyone cares.

Angle of Attack
1st Oct 2009, 13:34
What's so good about no overnights anyway?

It's Gold baby gold! I havent had one for 3 months!

Gnadenburg
1st Oct 2009, 16:27
I heard an ex-Dragonair pilot employed by Tiger is still wearing his old Dragonair uniform.

Hoofharted
1st Oct 2009, 17:16
On behalf of every bogan traveler in Australia, I would like to express my gratitude to the crew at Tiger.

You see, the fact that you are so willing to subsidise my traveling aspirations by paying for your own uniform, taking substandard salaries, taking half the industry standard annual leave, paying for your own parking, bringing your own lunch and generally help in reducing terms and conditions within your industry really enables me to holiday to my hearts content. Without you I would not be able to fly at less than the cost of taking my old VC commodore out for a spin.

Keep up the good work, it must make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that we love ya's all. :ok:

Muff Hunter
1st Oct 2009, 23:26
well said!!!!!

also JQ employees do not pay for car parks except syd !! They can have a free space in long term, but if they want to park next the terminal they have to pay!

abc1
2nd Oct 2009, 04:17
''Cashed up expats wanting to return home at all costs have accepted lower conditions than the median (because they can afford to).''

''This in turn creates a new norm in Pay & Conditions'' by

''I heard an ex-Dragonair pilot employed by Tiger is still wearing his old Dragonair uniform.''

Cashed up that much then.

DrunkenAir
2nd Oct 2009, 05:06
And why wouldn't you wear an old uniform?

As soon as they start offering a 4 on 4 off pattern on a BNE base I am there as well.....

You see, I have about 6 sets of uniforms so that should last a while and I need to do something when I come back.

Anyone wanna buy a cheap uniform???

JetRacer
2nd Oct 2009, 06:13
Skybus_319 wrote:

It does take plenty of experience, and that is something the majority of Tiger F/O's have. Alot were captains before coming down under back in 2007, but had to settle for F/O slots. There are many at the moment who have more experience on type than Captains

Maybe a lot of Tiger's current FOs were Captains, and settled for an FO slot, but if it is why does the Tiger website (http://www.tigerairways.com.au/au/en/careers.php)still advertise for DECs? :confused:

Are they that unsuitable they can't be promoted? Or did you mean they were Cessna Captains before joining Tiger? :}

Chocks Away
2nd Oct 2009, 07:10
Look at you all, clambering over each other justifying your actions, whether coming back from O/S all cashed up, or just hoping to jump onto your first "Bunsen burner" by selling your Grandmother.

One thing is certain and it's that S.J.S. (http://shinyjetsyndrome.com/index.html) is running even stronger today than ever before.

Things have changed for the worse in the last 20 years, no question... my jobs pay stagnated the last 3 years, with double the workload. The goal posts have changed for us and we're being taken for granted.
Don't rush to get onto a "burner" boys, because there is alot of money and shortage of experience in many Regionals... and that's right now, not with booming times.
:ok:

hongkongfooey
2nd Oct 2009, 09:23
and that is something the majority of Tiger F/O's have

Not doubting your word Skybus, but if there are so many experienced F/Os at Tiger @ around 5 Commands per airframe, it would seem a bit of a stretch they are advertising DECs this early in the piece ( assuming they wont need any DECs for a few years ).

When all the jet " first timers " stop excepting these supposed horrific conditions, then you can start getting stuck into the handful of " cashed up " expats that are supposedly driving conditions down.
Here's another idea, rather than bitch about the " cashed up " expats, become one and beat the rush :ok:
Sort of reminds me of the newbie pilots that would sit in their comfy capital city, whilst some of us where out in the bush doing the hard yards and clocking up the hours, whinging that they can't get a job :rolleyes:

Muff Hunter
2nd Oct 2009, 10:10
4 skippers from jetstar drw base have just recieved a dec.....

confirmed!!

Chocks Away
2nd Oct 2009, 10:31
:D:D:D
...and that's just it KHF, those mo-fo's that have stuck all cosy around their "training areas"/homes are flooding the GoCats'/PornstarNZ gates, with no experience to offer except a bum on a front window seat at lower cost.

LMC: What's wrong with Darwin? It's well connected now, with also plenty of hot Chicks/Pumas, compared with earlier feral days :)

pigdriver
2nd Oct 2009, 23:38
Chocks away, Not so sure about that last comment buddy!!?? Most of the tiger and J*Nz guys I know of have alot of experience to offer !!!!. Much more than most of the ex 1900 nopulse drivers flying around Aust.

PUSSYPOWER33
3rd Oct 2009, 00:37
are flooding the GoCats'/PornstarNZ gates, with no experience to offer except a bum on a front window seat at lower cost.
Not possible to find crew inside Tiger with "no experience to offer", they are the most experienced in the region!

The Professor
3rd Oct 2009, 02:03
“Cashed up expats wanting to return home at all costs have accepted lower conditions than the median (because they can afford to).”

Fortunately these people are not required to seek your permission before returning to reside in Australia. They are entitled to return to whatever conditions of employment they chose to so your opinion carries no weight.

“This in turn has created a new norm in Pay & Conditions (lower).”

Maybe it has. Such is free market competition.

“Therefore if an Australian Pilot wishes to be cashed up they are forced to go overseas.”

How high should a salary be before it will “cash you up” and who gets to decide this? You?

longjohn
3rd Oct 2009, 02:55
The terms and conditions in Tiger are certainly dissappointing:

However, I can understand why experienced Jet Captains looking for an Australian job are applying to Tiger (yes I did say experienced as contrary to statements by many posters here the vast majority of Tiger Capt's are experienced).

Let's look at the alternatives:

G.A.? - need I say more.
Jet charter / freight operators? - worse than Tiger with antiquated machines.
Virgin? - No more DEC's and low pay ($75 - 100k) / relatively slow (3-6yrs now) progression to command.
JQ? - As above
QF? - S/O (starting salary circa $38k, 18 mths to crack $100k exc. allowances), very limited progression.

Tiger? - LHS A320 day 1, $170 - $200k :hmm:

If I were in the last 5 - 10 years of my career, looking for employment then it seems a no-brainer to me.

No I do not like it, but I do understand it.

I very much doubt the answer will be found by industrial means. It is more likely that the atrophy of pilots Terms and Conditions worlwide will continue unless the supply of pilots dwindles. Airlines know this, hence the race to cadet schemes. To an 18 year old kid in school, $50k to sit in a Jet is dream money, to the airline it saves thousands. LCC's in Europe have been doing this for years.

7 years later and blogs is a 26 year old Captain earning $190k :D, he is still miles in front of his mates in other professions and scoring way more often (if u know what I mean :E ).

3 years after that, :bored: bored to death with Aviation and the prospect of doing the same job for another 30 years, which he never really had a passion for anyway, blogs gets himself a degree and trots off to another career. Blogs is replaced by blogs Jnr and the cycle continues. It's happenning now!

I know this does not paint a pleasant picture, but this is happenning now, today.

psycho joe
3rd Oct 2009, 05:06
Ease up Nutty Professor.

If anything I was making reference to the law of unintended consequences and the viscious cycle created by poor Pay & Conditions forcing people to work off-shore. :hmm:

fence_post
3rd Oct 2009, 05:45
longjohn - I note you quote FO salaries for Virgin, JQ and QF initial training fee for a SO, yet you quote "Tiger LHS A320 $170-$200". Why not quote the RHS (FO) like you have for the rest of them?

KRUSTY 34
3rd Oct 2009, 06:03
More to the point, (note MRSheffield's post #26) just how much additions to basic salary does a Tiger Capt attract?

It's a hell of a gap between $112K P/A basic to $170K-$200K!!!

Anyone like to comment on where the real remuneration lies?:confused:

Chocks Away
3rd Oct 2009, 06:43
Pigdriver & Pussypower;
On re-reading what I wrote I can see how you read it.
I was commenting further from HongKongFooeys post on those that haven't been bothered venturing from home to gain experience, flooding the gates of those operators ("Sort of reminds me of the newbie pilots... )
It was no comment passing judgement on those there currently.

Beeroclock
3rd Oct 2009, 12:38
I dont care how much experience they have,they obviously dont value it..:mad: Nor the people employing it!!

rodney rude
3rd Oct 2009, 14:41
Jesus there is some sh!t on here.
I've only read half this sh!t and I'm incensed already.
Oz biggles
Cathay pilots DO pay for parking in HK s does Dragonair

Adelaide down to 1 or 2 overnights??? Bullshit - there are NO overnights in Tiger
25 days leave ?? NO 25 days leave plus 14 for for public holidays PLUS normal days off thrown in whilst on leave. Better than most airlines (at least something is better.

BUZZY - you are a total D/ckhead, you always have been. Fark off until you have something mature and sensible to contribute

Gnadenburg
3rd Oct 2009, 16:16
I am a cashed up expatriate. And frankly, it is no business what I come home to work for.

When I was working in Australia, professional pilots such as Buzzy from Virgin Blue worked for a fraction of what I did. And they paid for the privilege too. Impulse and National Jet were desperados; but I always felt Virgin Blue drivers took the cake- 100K a year for a Training Captain whilst the incumbents were on 200 to 240K. And they loved to hide behind the pilot dispute skirt as well....

So. I would like to work part time with Tiger. Money is not an issue. I'd prefer to fly their jets than buy my own. I will do 400 hours a year for 150 AUD per hour flat rate as a DEC ( 12,000 hours Airbus ). I would like a membership at the Royal Melbourne thrown in too.

That a Virgin Blue pilot such as Buzzy takes the piss with the COS of Australian airline pilots completes the race to the bottom dictum!

Mr.Buzzy
3rd Oct 2009, 21:10
Terrific shot Gardenburglar!
Doesn't take much to get you out of the woodwork now does it?
No need for me to reply; just re-read the last four pages.
While you're in a reading mood, do a search of the VB pay and conditions (particularly reference rostering and bidding options) and let us all know if VB are still in "the race to the bottom" or if they are just watching Tiger and Jetstar race their tired, sorry products:ok:

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Tidbinbilla
3rd Oct 2009, 21:44
I'd hate to have to travel on an aircraft with some of you kiddies in control. :ugh: