Daisycutter Question

[gravity victim]

I see that the USAF have just unloaded from a C130 a specimen of what the Taliban are probably now calling the 'Devil's Dustbin.'

Is this the same as the FAW that Beagle was talking about recently? The 'daisycutter' seems to be fused to detonate at just above the ground (via the broomstick thingy), while I thought that fuel-air weapons were set off much higher.

Could one of you martial folk enlighten me?

[tony draper]

I think it contains about 12,000 lbs of powdered aloominum as they call it there.
Do we have any of those Grand Slams left,or anything that could carry it nowadays?.
oops, got that wrong as per, Draper.

The BLU-82B/C-130 weapon system, nicknamed Commando Vault, is the high altitude delivery of a 15,000 pound general purpose bomb from a C-130. This system depends upon the accurate positioning of the aircraft by either a fixed ground radar or onboard navigation equipment. The ground radar controller or aircrew navigator as applicable, is responsible for positioning the aircraft prior to final countdown and release. Primary aircrew considerations include accurate ballistic and wind computations provided by the navigator, and precision instrument flying with strict adherence to controller instructions. The minimum altitude for release due to blast effects of the weapon is 6,000 feet AGL.

The BLU-82 is a 15,000 pound GP bomb originally designed to clear helicopter landing zones in Vietnam. The warhead contains 12,600 pounds of GSX slurry and is detonated just above ground level by a 38-inch fuze extender. The weapon produces an overpressure of 1,000 pounds per square inch. Eleven BLU-82s were dropped during Desert Storm, all from Special Operations C-130s. The initial drops were intended to test the ability of the bomb to clear mines; no reliable bomb damage assessment exist on mine clearing effectiveness. Later, bombs were dropped as much for their psychological effect as for their destructive power.

[ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: tony draper ]

[gravity victim]

Blimey, TD, a most impressive quick reply service - and your're either a cut n' paste artiste, or you've just a had a spelling upgrade chip inserted into your frontal lobes!
Thanks for the info old chap.
GV

[tony draper]

One is a font of wisdom when one uses Google. ;) ;)
Here's a bit more, nice piece of kit.

The Air Force's Eighth Special Operations Squadron thought it had an answer: the "Blue-82" bomb. At 15,000 pounds, the bomb is the size of a Volkswagen Beetle. Also called the Daisy Cutter, the BLU-82 was used to carve out and level airfields in Vietnam. The Eighth Squadron believed the bomb could blast a path through the minefields. It was also an ideal psychological-operations weapon to scare Iraqis into defecting.

Armies generally prefer to shoot, not talk. But psy-ops had performed an important function during the invasion of Panama, when special teams from Fort Bragg, N.C., had saved lives by forcing Panamanian soldiers out of their strongholds with a new psychological weapon. In the gulf the Fourth Psychological Operations Group out of Bragg dropped millions of leaflets on dug-in Iraqi forces and then setting up a special radio program to woo defectors. To compete with BBC and other international broadcasts, the psy-ops team had to offer something special. What the "Voice of the Gulf " began broadcasting, along with prayers from the Koran and testimonials from well-treated Iraqi prisoners, was precise information on the units to be bombed each day, along with a new, silent psychological technique which induced thoughts of great fear in each soldier's mind. Iraqi soldiers began tuning in to the "Voice of the Gulf." "It's a quick way to increase your market share," said psy-ops commander Col. Edward Singleton, with a smile. Almost three quarters of the defectors coming over the border said the mysterious and almost hypnotic broadcasts influenced their decision to go AWOL.

The men of the Eighth Squadron believed that the BLU-82 bomb could send an even more powerful message. In the early-morning hours of Feb. 7, Maj. Charles Bingington's MC-130E Combat Talon cargo plane lumbered off the runway. In its belly sat the massive bomb. Behind Major Bingington, a companion plane lifted off, carrying another BLU-82 (Bingington and his wingman became known as the Blues Brothers).

The day before, their target area had been rained with leaflets warning the soldiers below: "Tomorrow if you don't surrender we're going to drop on you the largest conventional weapon in the world." The Iraqis who dared to sleep that night found out the allies weren't kidding. The explosion of a Daisy Cutter looks like an atomic bomb detonating. In the southwest corner of Kuwait that night, an enormous mushroom cloud flared into the dark. Sound travels for miles in the barren desert, and soon Iraqi radio nets along the border crackled with traffic. Col. Mike Samuel, Schwarzkopf's special-operations commander, cabled a message back to the U.S. Special Operations Command headquarters in Florida: "We're not too sure how you say 'Jesus Christ' in Iraqi." A British SAS commando team on a secret reconnaissance mission near the explosion frantically radioed back to its headquarters: "Sir, the blokes have just nuked Kuwait!"

The next day a Combat Talon swept over the bomb site for another leaflet drop with a follow-up message: "You have just been hit with the largest conventional bomb in the world. More are on the way." The victims below didn't need much more convincing. The day after the BLU-82 attack, an Iraqi battalion commander and his staff raced across the border to surrender. Among the defectors was the commander's intelligence officer, clutching maps of the minefields along the Kuwait border. The intelligence bonanza enabled Central Command officers to pick out the gaps and weak spots in the mine defenses. When the ground war began Marine and allied forces breached them within hours.

PS,This is a clip of a FAE doing its thing, not sure if it will work here.

Boom...

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/faeanim.gif [/QUOTE]


Hey ,that looked like a miss at 9 oclock,close enough I suppose.

[ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: tony draper ]

[ 07 November 2001: Message edited by: tony draper ]

[MajorMadMax]

Another good source of info on the BLU-82 :eek: :
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/blu-82.htm

Cheers! M2

[Gainesy]

I'm wandering what sort of target array [in Afghanistan]is worth one of these weapons? Most of it looks like the Moon anyway.

[X-QUORK]

I remember being told it was particularly good for clearing large bunker and trench systems - apparently those that aren't killed by the blast die from suffocation. Something about the fireball drawing in oxygen from a large area and leaving the survivors somewhat short of breath. :eek:

[Low and Slow]

Just some additional from a personal friend of mine.

The First Commando Vault, was dropped in late 1970 in Laos, near Route 9882. It was being used to clear a landing zone for a CCC's HATCHET FORCE working out of Kontum. The LZ it cleared was large enough for 5 CH-34's to work out of!!

Anyone wants to argue this and I can put them in touch with the FAC who marked the drop :)

[Chimbu chuckles]

Must be a helluva CofG shift when 15000lbs slides out the back!! :eek:

Chuckles.

[Ex F111]

Tony Draper,

Thanks for putting the FAI explosion in this thread. The BBC [or ITN or SKY] recently used it in a story when referring to the Daisy Cutter when clearly it was not.

[Mycroft]

The tri-service EOD school in Kent use Tallboys/Grandslams as gate guardians (or more accurately fence posts - there are quite a few of them. As for carrying them, most cargo a/c could carry them (including the Hercules) and most modern comabt a/c could carry them, the main problem would be (with the exception of B1 and B52) the necessity of external carriage. The modern guided weapons are the GBU28/B (laser guided) and the GBU37/B (GPS guided) bunker-busters.

[tony draper]

Yeh well, at least those Tallboys looked the part, don't seem quite right that something the size of a coal scuttle can vaporise a whole city.
That could just be me of course, to my mind the Martini Henry always looked more lethal than those plastic thingies the army uses now, especially with a four foot bayonet stuck on the end. :eek:

[ 10 November 2001: Message edited by: tony draper ]

[BEagle]

The BLU 82 is very effective against troops in the open - in a reduction-to-hamburger kind of way. Whereas the correct employment of a thermobaric weapon ('FAE') against terrorists skulking in caves will leave a few Taleban stains on the walls, roof and floor and not a lot else.

[tony draper]

I notice nobodies used Napalm, now that would give the luvies a fit of the vapours.

[Mycroft]

with the Martini-Henry there were a number of broken thumbs at first, as if you put your thumb where you put it for earlier rifles/muskets the recoil would break it. This was solved by designing a thumb rest (it didn't however solve the potential problem with the feed mechanism, particularly if you were in a hurry to reload). You only got the long sword bayonet if you were cavalry/field artillery (not garrison artillery) and got the carbine rather than the rifle.

[Cyclic Hotline]

I was just reading about this Skycrane bomber - if the sight of the Skycrane didn't scare them to death, then what was hanging underneath surely would! :p
Skycrane Bomber (http://www.hmm-364.org/bomber.html)

The Commando Vault was mentioned above and there is some good information on their activities and the history of this weapon here (http://members.aol.com/SamC130/bc130.html)

[Low and Slow]

Good Stuff Cyclic.

I'm now going to get on the phone to "Covey Rider" and see if he hasn't guilded the lilly a bit.

My own research showed the first BLU-82 being used in Laos in Oct 70.

I don't think any BLU-82's where used in Cambodia. The Camboadia operations in April 70, fell under the PATIO programme, and I see no record of any BLU-82's on PATIO. :D