Passenger Evacuation - Memory Item or QRH?

[Tee Emm]

Recently (?) Boeing changed the Evacuation from a Recall (Memory) item to drag out the QRH and read and do. That's so pilots don't forget vital items I suppose. We train various airlines from various countries in the sim and regardless of what Boeing recommends, most use the Evacuation as a memory item. In other words whip through it as quick as possible so people don't get burned to death waiting for someone to labour through a checklist - if they can find it in the thick smoke invading the flight deck.

We are not in a position to demand these visiting crews use the latest Boeing procedures -we can only advise. They have their SOP's and we have ours with a resigned attitude of East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet, sort of thing..

It got me thinking for a change. Perhaps the commonsense view should differentiate between a planned Evacuation (can't get one wheel down, ditching etc) and an aborted high speed take off skidding off the end on fire and desperate need to get people out before fire and smoke overwhelms them.

I recall a Boeing 707 crash in USA of years ago when the smoke was so thick that the flight deck crew were not only unable to actually read the checklist because of nil visibility in smoke but that medically with thick smoke you eyes will involuntarily close and you are blind. QRH Evacuation checklist read and do, not much good then..

In the airline training world, SOP's are rigidly used and although the captain has the final authority in everything, woe betide if you pull that final authotity card in the simulator. I have observed many times unacceptable delays by the checklist reading pilot trying to find the right QRH Evacuation page then wade through the Evacuation checklist step by step and wasting precious seconds before finally the captain says "All OUT". And that is with no smoke in the simulator.

Perhaps to be realistic, we should train to cover both eventualities. Firstly the prepared Evacuation where the crew casually go through the Evacuation QRH checklist - finger poised on each line and once completed the order goes out and people are shepherded down the slides by the flight attendants. Thats the QRH Evacuation.

Then there is the deadly emergency like the Air Tours B737-200 (Manchester aborted take off due gigantic fuel fed fire and many died because they couldn't get out in time). This type of Evacuation may warrant a Memory or Recall policy where the QRH is actioned after all items completed and at least you have got people out rather than sitting waiting.

Of course, the crew may inadvertently omit certain vital actions if they do the drills off by heart. But keep in mind it is not a one pilot cockpit and is is unlikely that both pilots omit a vital action. Seconds count when certain fire and smoke conditions take over rapidly and people must get out quickly.

Having seen significant delays while the QRH is found and opened at the required page and then reading and then doing, I know passengers are going to be a captive audience to slow reactions up front. I have observed delays of at 45 seconds in the 737 - especially when opening of out-flow valves takes time as the crew stare at the outflow valve needle position - only to find that it needs AC power for the actual gauge to work and you have lost all AC power so pilots keep holding the outflow switch to open because the damned needle appears to be stuck half way. Such things will delay the Evacuation order.

I realise that manufacturers cover their backside by catering for the lowest pilot common denominator which is probably why the policy for Evacuation was changed from Recall to QRH read and do. But does that mean we all follow that policy blindly rather than realistically?

[Denti]

I have observed many times unacceptable delays by the checklist reading pilot trying to find the right QRH Evacuation page then wade through the Evacuation checklist step by step and wasting precious seconds before finally the captain says "All OUT". And that is with no smoke in the simulator.

Is it not standard to have the Evacuation on the back cover page of the QRH? That way you dont have to look for the page and not even open the QRH at all.

The thing about staring at the outflow valve indicator might be a result of the wording in the checklist: Outflow VALVE switch ..... Hold in OPEN until the outflow VALVE position indicates fully open.

I used to do it as a memory checklist for years and liked it that way, the checklist in our version (tailored, not original boeing) was a two part checklist with one part for each seat so announcements could be done by the captain independently of the FO and usually came much earlier than nowadays. As a result many captains still do the evacuation call independently and earlier than requested by the checklist while the FO does the read and do stuff.

[PJ2]

Tee Emm;
I recall a Boeing 707 crash in USA of years ago when the smoke was so thick that the flight deck crew were not only unable to actually read the checklist because of nil visibility in smoke but that medically with thick smoke you eyes will involuntarily close and you are blind. QRH Evacuation checklist read and do, not much good then.
If the smoke is that thick, reading the QRH is not the problem: - neither crew member will be able to reliably find the controls and action them, (fuel cutoff levers/switches, flap lever/spoiler lever etc), or read the indicators/see the warning lights referenced in the checklist. It can be done if the crew member really knows his/her cockpit but that level of response isn't part of training or standard requirements. The situation and the opportunity for reliable crew action for the evac check is already very badly compromised and the crew needs to get out.

Of course, the crew may inadvertently omit certain vital actions if they do the drills off by heart. But keep in mind it is not a one pilot cockpit and is is unlikely that both pilots omit a vital action.
It is as likely as it is unlikely that both crew members could omit a vital action. In high-pressure situations, people including crew members tend to follow a leader; if the leader forgets something, the chance that it will not be picked up by another in the immediate circumstances, is high.

Denti;
As a result many captains still do the evacuation call independently and earlier than requested by the checklist while the FO does the read and do stuff.
The great risk there is, unless engine shutdown is coordinated with the evac announcement from the left seat, you're going to evacuate passengers into running engines.

We do it by the QRH after years ago changing our training after our sim sessions revealed that crews were evacuating passengers into engines that hadn't been shut down yet. Read-and-do takes a few seconds longer than the memory drill but is far more reliable. In thick smoke, a memorized checklist can't be executed any better than a QRH for the above-stated reasons. Two people doing the check independant of one another is a case where time saved may be asking for an incident, in my view.

The QRH should be out and even open to the page anyway, but that's an airmanship item. You can't standardize everything.

[411A]

Neither, the short evac checklist is affixed to the instrument panel for all to reference.
A done deal.

[FullWings]

I realise that manufacturers cover their backside by catering for the lowest pilot common denominator which is probably why the policy for Evacuation was changed from Recall to QRH read and do. But does that mean we all follow that policy blindly rather than realistically?
There have been quite a few changes to our QRH of this type and the explanation provided was that Boeing had done statistical analysis of checklist usage when under pressure (unplanned scenarios, high workload - as in real life) and with *some* checklists had found that the error/omission rates were significantly lower when done as a non-recall. Obviously, there are some time critical ones which need recall items but the overall effect has been to reduce the number of memory checks.

[PJ2]

411a;

How do you conduct the evac checklist - read-do or independent simultaneous actions? If simultaneous, are the engines shut down before the evac order is given?

[Rainboe]

I've encountered the same contradictions between operators regarding PILOT TRAINING for Emergency Evacuation: Should I stop the aircraft, PARK the BRAKES, slap the S/B Lever to RETRACT, run the FLAPS to full down, select the Emergency Lt switch to ON, select STDBY Electric, and then give the EVAC signal ????

Or should we have the copilot get out his QRH ? Or should we read from the items shown on the Column Clipboard?
You have just demonsterated why a hard copy evacuation drill is needed. You have just evacuated carbon-based life units into running engines! In the heat of the moment, there is too much potential to miss essential things. A checklist is needed, but it does take soooo long! It seems a shame, I ran through it again and again until I could do it in seconds in my sleep, but having stopped (and already carried out half the items), you then have to go back to square 1 and start again from the top.

[Dan Winterland]

From the list. And have the list handy, either as 411a suggests posted on a part of the flight deck structure or somewhere easily accessable such as on the reverse of the normal checklist - as my company does.

[captjns]

Neither, the short evac checklist is affixed to the instrument panel for all to reference. A done deal.

Negative... Not on any of the many carriers I flew with over the past 30 years. Always memory, then pull out the QRH... and that's on 6 Boeing Products for some 10+ operators worldwide.

[Spooky 2]

Current Boeing boiler plate has the Evac checklist on the back of the QRH and it is a read and do. If a carrier wants to create a memory version of this drill and their governing oversight permits such. So be it, but as another poster has pointed out, Boeing research has shown the read and do is significantly more reliable than when in the heat of battle. :ok:

[captjns]

Current Boeing boiler plate has the Evac checklist on the back of the QRH and it is a read and do.

Airline specific.

If a carrier wants to create a memory version of this drill and their governing oversight permits such. So be it, but as another poster has pointed out, Boeing research has shown the read and do is significantly more reliable than when in the heat of battle

Quite the opposite. It is a memory item followed up by challenge and response, repsonse. Airlines adopte the "Read & Do Philosophy" to the controlling agency during certification or by revision.

Over the years, I have flown with a number of operators worldwide. Some used the "recall method" and some used the "read and do method" for the Emregency Evac Procedures.

[411A]

How do you conduct the evac checklist - read-do or independent simultaneous actions?

Read-do...and simultaniously, the FE has his items on his specific check list.
And, it wasn't our idea, either...we have ex-Delta aircraft (L1011) and Delta had the evac checklist on the instrument panel.
Good idea, in my opinion.

Negative... Not on any of the many carriers I flew with over the past 30 years. Always memory, then pull out the QRH... and that's on 6 Boeing Products for some 10+ operators worldwide.

Guess you missed DAL, then....:rolleyes:

[Spooky 2]

The Evacuation checklist is not a Memory item. Don't know why you think that but clearly it is not as indicated on the the checklist design. The Evacuation checklist is a Quick Action Item but as you should know, not all Quick Action Items are Memory items.

[captjns]

Guess you missed DAL, then....

Hmmm... DAL... DAL... damn... what does DAL stand for... wait:eek:!

What does DAL stand for? (http://www.abbreviations.com/DAL)

Which DAL are you talking about:E?

But seriously... like I said... airline specific:ok:.

[captjns]

The Evacuation checklist is not a Memory item. Don't know why you think that but clearly it is not as indicated on the the checklist design. The Evacuation checklist is a Quick Action Item but as you should know, not all Quick Action Items are Memory items.

As it may apply to your carrier true. However, as you know, there are other carriers on the planet besides yours.

With that being said my carrier, along with other carriers I have flown for, the Evac Cecklist is not only a quick item check list but a memory item too.

By the way IMHO... recall items, from the QRH, should be dumped with the exception of the R/D, and silence the friggen bell.

[Spooky 2]

Okay I think I gave you that leeway in my first post. As a matter of fact that's the underlying subject here, Memory or Read and Do. If your carrier is using the Evacuation checklist as a Memory item how is it displayed? Is it on the back cover of the QRH and annoated with Bold Dashed lines at the bottom, thus indicating it is a Memory item? Or is the dashed line missing?

I'm not arguing with what your carrier does, I'm just telling you how Boeing envisions this particualr checklist.:ok: BTW I'm referencing the 777/787 not anything else.

[captjns]

If your carrier is using the Evacuation checklist as a Memory item how is it displayed. Is it on the back cover of the QRH and annoated with Bold Dashed lines at the bottom, thus indicating it is a Memory item? Or is the dashed line missing?

Excerpt from the QHR or my current carrier.

"Checklists can have both memory and reference items. Memory items are critical steps that must be done before reading the checklist. The last memory item is followed by a dashed horizontal line."


The above statement is applicable to our Emergency Evacuation Procedure.

I'm not arguing with what your carrier does, I'm just telling you how Boeing envisions this particualr checklist.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif BTW I'm referencing the 777/787 not anything else

Are you referring to airline specific or manufacture specific. Two different animals.

As I said before with 30 plus years of doing flying for various operators worldwide, I have observed the procedure done both ways.

[Spooky 2]

I'm refering to Boeing, the manufacture of the aircraft, as it all starts there and not some place else. If your QRH has the Evacuatuon checklist on the back cover with the Bold dashed line, it is something that your airline has created with Boeing's approval. The base line Evacuation checklist created by Boeing is not a Memory item. End of story.:}

[captjns]

The base line Evacuation checklist created by Boeing is not a Memory item. End of story.

Review your history. The Emergency Evacuation Procedure contained in the original Boeing QRH was a memory item.

The choice as to whether the item should be by memory or by read and do is not entirely an option of the airline. The controlling state of the airline always has the last word on the method a procedure is to be accomplished.

With that being said... the story continues.

Happy flying:ok:.

[Spooky 2]

I give up! You win!:)

[captjns]

No... no one wins... and the good news is that no one loses either.

One of the last carriers I flew for in the US, have a QRH for our 727s. We had to go the the "book". We revised our emergency procedures to change a number of memory items to a read and do procedure. Our POI signed off on it and life was good. In that case we, the crewmembers were winners especially during the PCs:ok:.

[CommandB]

In the airline i fly for the EVAC drills are completed from memory - each pilot has their own specific drills to accomplish. Then, commanders discretion, if not life threathening the F/O reads the QRH to ensure all is covered.

Id like to point out that in the Boeing QRH in checklist instructions it states that "The pilot flying may also direct reference checklists to be done by memory if no hazard is created by such action, or if the situation does not allow reference to the checklist"

:ok:

[Spooky 2]

Your comments about the QRH and doing it from memory are true, but you better not do it from memory and screw it up as no one will be there to support your actions.:= About the only non-memory item I would attempt is an APU fire. Can't do much wrong there.

[PJ2]

CommandB, (and others);
In the airline i fly for the EVAC drills are completed from memory - each pilot has their own specific drills to accomplish.
Except for Rainboe, no one has addressed the "evacuating into live engines" issue when "each pilot has their own specific drills to accomplish".

How is the evac signal or PA from the left seat coordinated with other crew members to ensure the engines are shut down before the command to evacuate is given?

To ask the question differently, - What item or SOP in your memory items or QRH checklists ensures that the evac command isn't given until the engines have been shut down, (fuel levers/switches off)?

I realize there are lots of scenarios and no evac is the same as any other, but ensuring the engines have been shut down should be a standard item, memorized or not. (That's the problem with a memory checklist - in a hurry and under pressure, you can forget that the/some engines may still be running). A single-point checklist (meaning, read by one crew member, done by the other), prevents all such screwups and doesn't take a lot longer to do.

[captjns]

About the only non-memory item I would attempt is an APU fire. Can't do much wrong there.

Oops:(... APU Fire... Memory item now on the 737-800... at least for the carrier I fly for. Boeing changed APU Fire procedure recently from a read and do to a memory.

But spot on about performing a non-memory checklist without the QRH.

Watch and listen to NTSB hearing about the testimony about the ATR-42 mishap in LBB. The captain is asked questions about that same subject.

[Spooky 2]

Well that is very interesting that the 737-800 APU fire is a memory item. Is that a Boeing change or airline specific change? Boeing does not drift far afield from fleet types and one has to wonder what drove that descision.

[captjns]

I believe it was on or about December of 2007. I don't know if it were promulgated by the FAA to Boeing and all operators, or if it was company specific.

[411A]

....I'm referencing the 777/787 not anything else.
777 I can understand, 787, not released to any airlines as yet (in fact, not flown, as yet), so....Unknown at this time.

One then wonders.... just where some folks get their info.:rolleyes::}
Answers on a postcard.:hmm:

[Spooky 2]

May be to you, but I have a Letter of Authorization for the 787 in lieu of a type rating and it says I can turn it in for the real thing when the airplane is certified.:ok:

[411A]

.... but I have a Letter of Authorization for the 787 in lieu of a type rating and it says I can turn it in for the real thing when the airplane is certified

There is a 'Bubba' in every crowd....:rolleyes:

[Earl]

New FAA regulations from maybe from a few years back.
No more memory items, take the QRH and follow accordingly.
Will try and find the regs.
Never understood how this would work for hung or hot starts.
No time to look this info up.

[Spooky 2]

Earl I'm not sure where your coming from on this issue but there are numerous memory items in the current Boeing QRH's. There was time in the early 80's when recall or memory items were almost reduced to zero, but that has changed and we are back doing them again for better or worse.

[Earl]

Maybe it has changed back to this, will try to find the regs.
But around 2000 and 2001 the FAA did drop this requirement.
I work abroad now so maybe I am incorrect.
Normally the evacuation checklist is on the last page of the QRH with many airlines.

[Spooky 2]

You are correct regarding the placement of the Evac checklist as that's the normal location for it on all the current Boeing QRH's be it a stubbby or long one.

I think Northwest was the leader in having the memory items reduced to almost nothing back in the eighties only to find them back in full force now.

[captjns]

Our QRH contains 18 memory items.

Airspeed Unreliable
Aborted Engine Start
APU Fire
Cabin Altitude Warning
Emergency Descent
Engine Fire
Engine Limit or Surge or Stall
Engine Overheat
Engine Severe Damage or Separation
Engine Tailpipe Fire
Evacuation
Loss of Thrust on Both Engines
Overspeed
Rapid Depressurization
Runaway Stabilizer
Smoke, Fire or Fumes
Takeoff Configuration
Warning Horn – Cabin Altitude or Configuration

Some items may be airline specific, while some the rest are required by the aviation authority.

[Spooky 2]

Which airplane are you looking at as this list does not match my current list on the 777/787?

[Denti]

Looks like 737, except for the evacuation which may be airline specific. Ours got changed to read and do a couple years back and Boeings justification in the transmittal letter was cross-fleet standardization. Might be airline specific too as we are allowed to do CCQ from 73s to 75 or 76 with only 3 sim sessions and then fly the lot mixed and i believe they want to approve the same once the 787s join the fleet (which could be never, the orders are currently being reviewed as the program lapse grows too large).

[captjns]

Items to be included in the QRH whether by "memory", or "read and do" are not solely at the discretion of the manufacturer and operator. The controlling agency is a party to the manual approval process too when comes to manual content.

For example. The black lines on the upper surface of the wing. If there is ice or frost accumulation within the boarder of these lines as a result of NEI, per Boeing, action may not be required.

Takeoff with light coatings of cold-soaked fuel frost on upper wing surfaces is allowable, provided the following conditions are met:

• the frost on the upper surface is less than 1/16 inch (1.5 mm) in thickness
• the extent of the frost is similar on both wings
• the frost is on or between the black lines defining the allowable cold-soaked fuel frost area (see figure) with no ice or frost on the leading edges or control surfaces
• the ambient air temperature is above freezing (0°C, 32°F)
• there is no precipitation or visible moisture (rain, snow, drizzle or fog with less than 1 mile visibility, etc.) If all the above criteria are not met, all ice or frost on the wings must be removed using appropriate deicing/anti-icing procedures.

Some aviation authorities do allow this and thus require that the area be de-iced before departure, be it by natural means (warm fuel into the wings), or using an approved method of de-icing if a short turn is required.

[Spooky 2]

Captjns,

Don't know what airplane your referring to when you drew up this list of memory items but it has me perplexed just a little. Are saying that there are seperate checklists for:

Cabin altitude
Emergency Descent
Rapid depressurization
Altitude warning horn

Where I come from those are all one and the same checklist:confused:

[captjns]

Don't know what airplane your referring to when you drew up this list of memory items but it has me perplexed just a little. Are saying that there are seperate checklists for

Affirmative.

The Depressurization check list is separate from the Emergency Descent.

If the depressurization problem is solved, then the emergency descent is not required. If the pressurization problem can’t be solved, then the QRH directs the crew to the Emergency Descent checklist.

I can’t speak for other operators, but our QRH is much more user friendly than previous QRH’s.

Our aircraft are being equipped with red “TAKEOFF CONFIG” and “CABIN ALTITUDE” lights on the forward instrument panels… thus the Warning Horn – Cabin Altitude or Configuration procedure.

[BOAC]

How is the evac signal or PA from the left seat coordinated with other crew members to ensure the engines are shut down before the command to evacuate is given? - by the simple method of having the same pilot do both. Obviously a c/crew initiated evac is not in frame here.

[Spooky 2]

A little thread drift here but what kind of signal is given by various operators to let the cabin know that an evacuation is not needed. For instance; a hard max energy RTO has occured but the Captain feels that an evac is not approproiate for the event. Some operators will make a PA to the effect, "Remain Seated-Remain Seated", thus letting both passengers and cabin staff that at this moment an evac is not appropriate.

Opinions Please?

[captjns]

How is the evac signal or PA from the left seat coordinated with other crew members to ensure the engines are shut down before the command to evacuate is given?
The captain tends to his/her immediate action items from memory which would include but may not be limited to, based on the airline specific and aircraft model.

Park Brake – Set
Flaps – XX position (per the procedure specific to the operator and aircraft)
Speed Brake Lever – Forward
Start Levers – Cut Off

Passenger Evacuation – Initiate (this is accomplished with the passenger address microphone).

The Cabin Crew will initiate the evacuation if they do not hear the command from the cockpit within a specified period of time.