RETENTION

[bubblehead]

WHY DOES THE MILITARY SPEND MILLIONS TRAINING PILOTS TO GET RID OF THEM AFTER FOUR YEARS SENDING THEM BACK TO SOME DEAD END JOB THEY CHOSE TO LEAVE FOR A BETTER FUTURE OR SO THEY WERE LED TO BELIEVED :confused:

[D-IFF_ident]

1. Please don't shout.

2. Could you rephrase the question please?

[bubblehead]

OK HERE IT IS AFTER SERVING FOR 13 YEARS I DECIDE TO BETTER MYSELF BY TRYING THE PILOTS COURSE PASSING AND SERVING IN BOTH UK AND NI NOW BECAUSE OF SOME NUMBER CRUNCING FOR SOME PIECE OF EQUIPMENT I AND OTHERS WONT SEE IN THE TIME LEFT IT SEEMS I AM SERPLUS TO REQUIREMENTS AND SO THANKS FOR YOUR TIME AND EFFORT BUT SEE YA OOH AND BY THE WAY JUST TAKE THIS MASSIVE PAY CUT AS WELL SO MY QUESTION IS WHY NO WELL RUN CIVI COMPANY WOULD FORK OUT THAT SORT OF DOSH FOR A 4 YEAR RTN WOULD THAY? :mad: :mad:

[Sloppy Link]

Dear Bubblehead
1. Supply and demand old boy, ask a Virgin/BA/Air 2000 pilot or Bristows/BIH/Bond about twelve years ago.
2. Don't shout, it is rude.
3. Use the spool chacker before you post a reply.

[fat albert]

http://www.stopstart.btinternet.co.uk/capslock.gif

I'm assuming you're AAC? I have no answer; it does, however, seem to be a common gripe amongst the AAC lot :(

[overspin]

Dear Bubblehead,
you have probably known for some time, as I have, of the risk of being sent back to your parent corps after only four years. I am in exactly the same boat as you mate and I have to say why dont you just stop your moaning and do what you have got to do. A start would be to phone bristols, as I have and tell the aac to shove their pathetic excuse for an aviators job.
oh yeah and take of the caps lock, its rude to shout. :)

[bubblehead]

sorry for shouting,but wife chatting in one ear child in other hard to think let alone spell, anyway wanting at least to use what I have gained over the years to some good, any suggestions as to which schools are the best for getting a c.p.l rotary in the shortest time? :confused:

[bubblehead]

sorry for that error but flying in the military we have to be checked out for both which is why I put it like that :o

[Sloppy Link]

Dear Bubblehead
Now you appear to have calmed down, remember you still have a job whilst you look to gain your CPL/ATPL ticket. Referring to my previous post, ther were Pilots on the North Sea twelve years ago working as barmen and the like as they couldn't get work so it could be worse. To quote, "Always look on the bright side of life!"
I did Cabair, it worked for me, I hear good press about Bristol too. I am afraid as JAA is now in, I have no first hand knowledge of the new system.

[Max_Chat]

Bubblehead. I am sure you are a splendid pilot of vast experience, but the AAC are full, it would seem, of pilots from other parts of the army. Hence you are being sacked. It is a shame, but there you go. I am sure that the young members of the AAC trying to get into the flying game would see your demise as an opening for them. It strikes me that if you were any good, QHI or the like, they would keep you forever.

[bubblehead]

max I see your point but having only good feedback from QHI etc I can only feel let down by the system, again I say I am not just a number but a person with a family and a solid love for the job I worked so hard to get :(

[ol_benkenobi]

You are not unique within Army Avation. Not being bolshie but you should have asked all these questions before hand. Ask for an extention of tour from your parent unit.
Or dust off your CABs and chest rig, get current SA80 and start learning arabic for our next great peace enforcement venture.

[ 17 December 2001: Message edited by: ol_benkenobi ]

[Murphy]

Couldn't agree more!

Sorry, and all that, but you knew the rules when you applied!!!

[Ron Fenest]

Caps....Shouting ???? You lads are spending far too much time in AOL chat rooms pretending to be young.

OK, Murph....total rubbish. And the rest of you claiming "you knew the rules", how smug can you really be.

I for one sat at an interview nearly 5 years ago and 3 very nice AAC Majors told me with a smile, well done lad, you are in !!!, at this point I was supposed to do cartwheels around the room, say how fantastic they were and consider how lucky I was. It didnt happen like that, I then asked a few unheard of questions.

Firstly.....Sir, up to this point I have had a fantastic career, If i complete the Army Pilots Course and turn my back on what I have been very good at for years am I going to have a secure future with the AAC or be sent back to my old job.

Answer (amongst lots of smiles)...If you succesfully complete the course then your future is safe as long as you maintain the standard required. you dont seriously think that the taxpayer is going to fork out xxxx thousands to train you just to let you go after 4 years, by that time you will be just becoming useful as a military aviator.

Secondly....Thats great to know Sirs, but, are there any gaurantees here that i wont end up thrown back to my old job playing catch up after being out of the loop for a long time.

Answer... You have no need to worry about that, the records speak for themselves. You will get a transfer as long as you pass the course and keep your nose clean.

As this will already seem like whinging, i should explain that I have chosen to go back to my Corps and I haven't even applied for a transfer (my reasons are personal). However I am sure I'm not the only person who asked these questions and was given a very false impression. yes we all know about the small print but if any one of the guys being sent back after giving everything to the AAC had recorded their interviews on tape i'm sure that a good lawyer could help them keep a flying job or at the very least compensation for potential loss of earnings etc. I for one, had I not chosen to return to my Corps would at least have written to my MP asking why so much taxpayers money had been wasted on me, if that didnt get any answers i would probably consider the national press.

Before having a go at the guys who are in this predicament, have a long hard think about which direction you would be going if tomorrow morning someone changed the goalpoasts and you were told that your whole future is in jeopardy, you are going to take a 3-5k a year pay cut and you have to effectively learn a new job, we are talking about people here not numbers.

PS. You will notice i have not mentioned women here, thats because they are all gauranteed transfers and are safe.

Tra la bloody la

[neilk]

It is a case of moving goalposts again, and the sad thing is I am sure that if the s**t really did hit the fan somewhere the corps would move heavan and earth to retreive its trained aviators from the 1st Bn mess tin repair regiment or elswhere.
I cannot recall anyone hitting QHI within 4 years unless his dad worked in the directorate! it is patently unfair and dishonest to effectively promise and not provide, this is while some very below par people have acheived transfer!
Women....say no more!
The sad fact it is all due to poor planning and forecasting, they will drop the numbers introduce AH and then run short again, but have they really thought of the longer term recruitment of aircrew?, yer normal geezer would tell his mates"I'm OF ON ME Pilots course and the next thing they would all see is shiny Gaz or Lynx landing in barracks with well badged up well handsome geezer, but generally no more sightings except at the odd reunion/do. When Geezer comes back after four years and has to start off at the bottom of his peer group again with the embarrasment of the pale blue legspreaders on the old chest it is no wonder that most sack it and go and do something more sensible instead and how much p**taking can anyone take?
(this does not really count with our commisioned bretheren as the wings are an accepted collectors item on the way to one stardom and it does'nt matter what they're wearing when flying desks anyway!)
No paralell with civilian life matey as you expect to get shafted outside.
Go back mate and never, no matter how much they ask in the furture go back...oh and point out all the lessons you've learned to young Lcpl Smith when he says he fancies it!

[Gunship]

Fat Albert,

Sorry to use this thread for a question, but your e-mail bounced back.
Where do you get the GIF re the Keyboard Lock and how do you get it into the message. I do not want to do it - just a curious heli driver from Africa asking a technologicial advanced question... (for me anyway ..) :o Thanks for the reply in advance.

[Gunship]

Ohh and Bubblehead .. best of luck mate .. something will come up. Will hold thumbs for you ! :D

[bubblehead]

good to get some positive feedback starting to consider the MP/paper option, as you said no mention of being sent back to mother corps when going through the pilots course so have burnt the bridges with them on leaving .

[angrycat]

Go to a mob that very rarely go on Ops,are based in the UK.Push paper in comfort. If you want to continue flying it may cost in the region of 15000 - 20000 pounds fixed wing. Do the exams part time while employed and do flying in the states. Do not bother with Rotary in civil world. With military experience and a fixed wing licence you will be well placed when recruiting for airlines starts again . I think in 18 to 24 Months ( pessimistically). The less teeth Arm your next home the better.

[Murphy]

Bubblehead/Flyingrockdj,

There are plenty of pilots who's Dad do not work in the Directorate, who made QHI in four years. The E3 people who achieved this made themselves Employable to the Corps, therefore'Guaranteeing' a Transfer. Most others have to play the transfer lottery, which, as already mentioned in previous posts works on supply and demand.
This is a Sad fact, for you, but is, as they say Life!!!!

[Ron Fenest]

Murphy.....Please define "plenty" and for research purposes can you just cover the last 4 years as flying rates aren't what they used to be.

And can I assume from your reply that the Army Air Corps can't employ trained pilots ? or did you mean ........More employable ?

Waiting with itchy fingers because if I held my breath I'd surely die.

:D

[Murphy]

Okay, so let's get picky shall we.

MORE Employable!!!!!!

Happy?

As for plenty, just to whet your appetite, we'll start with One RA Gaz pilot and One Infanteer Lynx pilot both from 5 Regt in the last year. No expert on the other regiments, and this is just off the top of my head!!!

[The Bonk]

Bubble,

Thought about a transfer? Inter -service or even down under. If you want to fly that badly there is a way. I think the last count has something like 7 ex AAC now crabs, 2 with the RN and about 4 or 5 down under. If you have something to offer....offer it.

;)

[bubblehead]

The bonk, thanks for that and do you know the way one can apply for the RN or indeed down under and if unlike the AAC they are looking for more pilots?,instead of throwing them away like the army seems to be doing.

[The Bonk]

No, sorry mate I don't! However there are people that do. If you have nothing to lose, then just ask Glasgow which DCI it is in etc etc. Maybe wise to sound out Binnswoth/Disappointer just to see what the 'lie of the land' is first....especially post Sep 11. But nothing ventured, nothing gained. As to Aus.....I would suggest go straight to the 'horses mouth' and write to their MA in the embassy/consulate.

Health warning mate.....I do not know the answers, but if I was in your shoes and had nothing to lose then the up front, cards on the table approach would be my method.

[WindyMate72]

Well chaps if you had worked harder at school and joined the blue suits then you wouldn't be in this situation. Guessing by the lack of DofA, I would suggest you are a Gazelle driver, therefore employment outside would be fairly limited as most companies require pilots with an ability and also a degree of DofA. Also if you had made more of an impression in your 4 year tour for which you should be greatful, then the good old AAC would have asked you to stay, but alas no! nuff said. To be honest I think the AAC will eventually see the light and employ officer aircrew only and generally up the overall standard of pilots within the AAC. If the AAC wishes to retain the Apache then this will have to be the case, and deep down most of you SNCO aircrew know this, even the up their own a***, lard eating, common Lynx drivers, know this. So stop bleating and get back on the tank park, and be thankful for the opportunity you had!!! :cool:

[Helmut Visorcover]

Murph, firstly, how the devil are you? Secondly, you can't mean me.

It's great over here. Independent Sqn run by 437 bods in RHQ. one cab and tonk met! Sherwsbury, here I come.

Windy, wind up prick? Or just a prick? :D

Murph, regards, send mail. :)

[PUP]

Bubblehead, I know its naff to comment, but in all my years "Ppruning", I've not seen such poor English as yours. Perhaps this symbolises part of your problem, aviation does demand a certain degree of compliance with conventions.
If you start looking seriously for jobs outside, I suggest you either take an English 'O' Level (okay, GCSE or whatever) or get someone else to do all your correspondence.
;)

[Max_Chat]

WindyMate72. I think you have hit the nail on the head. Officer only aircrew is the only way to go for the AAC to survive. Why the SNCO bunch insist on crying foul when well educated aviators stand alongside the less, if at all, educated pongos, and stand head and shoulders above them defeats me. Wake up and smell the coffee lads, the end of the world is neigh.

[Mike Cusack]

Instead of trying to retain those left in the airforce, I see their airships are paying out for a new avertising campaign over Chrimpo and New Year. Should be on Sky, Channels 4 & 5. Could be the best laugh on TV over the holiday!

[Muff Coupling]

Max Chat

Good banter, but hardly game on. Convert the AAC to all officer pilots! just when the Airships are just putting the finishing touches to a study on reintroduction of SNCO pilots for the light blue.

[Helmut Visorcover]

Simple solution. Make all the officers in the RAF SNCO pilots and make all the AAC pilots officers. That would make everyone happy, wouldn't it?!? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[BOMBS]

Helmut, Good call but what would you do with all that time off? Personally I don't fancy being converted to the white sock brigade!!!!

[Sloppy Link]

Bubblehead, taking you back to the original question, I rang the Australian Embassy not so long ago for a tourist query and immediately entered "voice jail". Option three was to the effect,"If you are serving in the British Forces and are interesred in joining the Australian Forces, press button three now!"
I did not pursue it any further as my button came later, I got their number from directory enquiries. Nothing ventured etc....