Expedition - Destinations

[JamesTigris]

I am going to be building up my hours and experience over the next year or so to get myself in a position to take on the Commercial license course.

I am planning flying that will test my skill as rapidly as possible with the relatively small number of hours in the air that are required (an I can afford!).

I have a share an in addition to some exciting things like Aeros I want to mount a challenging expedition, something ambitious but which can be accomplished safely with the right planning and contingency.

I was thinking a flight to Monza for the Grand Prix, mountains making the route thought provoking. I am hoping this will deveop into a "if I could fly anywhere, I'd fly there..." type threads.

All ideas from the outlandish to the cautious welcomed...

[Keygrip]

It was a bit too tenuous a link between destinations for a PPL to fly to and Professional Training. Moved ya here!.

[JamesTigris]

Fairy Nuff, I thought this would be the case.

I was just hoping to spark a debate on useful (if a little indulgent) hour building. If the above is treated simply as 'PPL flying' (which it is by definition) then we stifle useful debate for those who are really undertaking 'pre-CPL experience building', which I venture is different, and requires a different approach and mindset.

But by the letter, it is not Commercial Training.

Still, Private Flyers, your ideas please!

[Katamarino]

I think you're making a big mistake in assuming that being a private pilot automatically means that you don't strive for the same level of competence and expertise as a commercial pilot does. Many don't, it's true, and there's not such a strict regime for recurrent training, but many private pilots have done things, and reached levels of competency that most commercial pilots could only dream of. I for one am not satisifed with anything other than professional performance from my flying, and am always trying to improve with new challenges, and refining old techniques.

A couple of years ago, with just 150 hours under my belt, I took a C172S from Florida to California and back, meandering across the country over 5 weeks with a tent, and no set route. It worked very well, and was a great 70 hours flying into a huge variety of different airports and environments. Ideal hour building, if hour building is what you're after (I did it for the sheer joy of it).

Do you just want the challenging and interesting flying, or also the ground-based challenges to go with it? (ie. Africa :ok:) I'd class a flight to South Africa, or India, or something like that as an 'Expedition'. To many private pilots, a bimble to Monza is just a short weekend break :p (But a great idea none-the-less, it looks like a lovely trip!)

[BackPacker]

Anything in the corners of Europe. Iceland, North Cape, St. Petersburg on the one side, Gibraltar and anything south of the med at the other.

Up north the weather will be the most challenging, down south the bureaucracy/corruption/language.

The reality is that you can fly anywhere within Western Europe in two days maximum, provided you've got good weather. So as long as you stay within Western Europe, you really can't classify that as an expedition.

Oh, and you might want to PM Sam Rutherford. He might have a few ideas too. Read some of his posts to get an idea of what he's doing.

[JamesTigris]

I am sure Monza seems like a bimble to some but, to me, Scotland still seems like a long way away! Crossing two, possibly three, countries in a crowded continent sounds like a challenge enough to start with.

I intended to infer no lack of professionalism on Private Pilots (as I may very well remain, CPL or not), but I believe my point remains a valid one, in terms of the difference between hour building for an ATPL and flight for the sheer joy of it of a highly disciplined and safe leisure pilot.

Which I hope all pilots are still doing as often as possible regardless of qualification.

[Katamarino]

If you're that keen on a specific hour building program, then I'd say you should be looking at one of the sausage-factory ATPL producers, who have set courses and syllabi for the 100 or so hours between PPL and CPL.

If it's an 'expedition', I don't think you'd see much difference between doing it as a 'joy of it' PPL, or an 'hour builder'. You'd want to mix in a range of different aiport types, from grass strips to international controlled airports, for the practice. Pay particular attention to your stopwatch/compass nav, and keeping course to within a couple of degrees and altitude to 50 or so feet as these are much more strictly tested on the CPL than the PPL. Don't allow yourself to fall into the GPS 'trap' - I find that when I have it, I have to be much more disciplined to try and keep my traditional nav skills up to scratch. Always have one as a backup though, but be strict with yourself.

In addition to your trip, keep some hours in hand for practicing PFLs, stalls, circuits etc to a high standard. Maybe make your legs on your trip in one direction very short, to maximise the practise in airfield procedures, and practise some long cross country nav on the return journey, or vice versa.

Whatever you end up doing for these hours, just make sure you never give yourself a break - debreif yourself after each flight and make a note of every mistake, so you can avoid it next time.

Most of all, have fun!

[Intercepted]

I got my PPL back in August and currently I'm really proud of myself having planned my next trip to be from West London to Welshpool :)

Anyway, i really like going places and will build up my confidence over time for longer and longer trips and next summer I will embark on a journey to north of Sweden (budget permitting). A lot of busy airspace in between combined with some massive class G virtually empty (and another view on PFLs when nearest field is 20 miles away).

[englishal]

How much time have you got? i.e. do you have to go to work daily?

If not then what I would do is set myself a target - say 100 hours, then go to the USA and find someone who will rent you a plane on a decent dry rate, and just fly to anywhere you can think of. The reason I'd go to the USA is because hours are much cheaper there, so your budget = 2x the number of hours. Also experience is experience, you dont have to fly just in Europe to gain quality experience.

The USA is huge, and it also has many varied climates, from subtropical to Alpine, with varying degrees in between. You find big mountains, deserts, there as well as the rest of it and most towns have an airport so you can get to see some amazing sights.

It is also relatively cheap, with no landing fees to speak of and decent briefing services (all free) and hotels can be very cheap (or bring your tent and camp under the wing ;) ).....

Just my 2c worth :D

[Hugh_Jarse]

I intended to infer no lack of professionalism on Private Pilots (as I may very well remain, CPL or not), but I believe my point remains a valid one, in terms of the difference between hour building for an ATPL and flight for the sheer joy of it of a highly disciplined and safe leisure pilot.

Well, I could be wrong, and I'll have to check the next time I'm in my aircraft, but I don't recall there being a knob on the dash marked "Commercial Mode" ... :D

/* Generous mode ON */

I'm going to assume that you simply mean that your intention is to spend your hours flying entirely by hand to very rigorous limits, with the GPS firmly off, practicing that languid, velvet-textured lounge-lizard "heavy metal" RT - and not that you consider us "leisure pilots" to be some sort of inferior species !

/* Generous mode OFF */

But I have to say that if you intend to spend 100 hours flying around muttering "I must not enjoy myself for I wish to be a pro", then I do feel sorry for you !

Anyway, where to for your "expedition" ... Monza is nice, but the Alps can bite hard, so that needs a bit of thought and research (eg don't expect to pick up fuel on a Monday in Italy) ; but to be honest, I don't think the "where" is important. It's getting out there and doing it that counts : you'll learn more about flying (and yourself) than you expect, partcularly when things don't go to plan ... but do try to enjoy it old boy, otherwise why bother ?

Anyway, this "leisure pilot" is off to Prague, Krakow, Budapest and Sofija in a couple of days on a spot of business - who knows, I may see you around ... I shall look out for someone with a certain air about him, a purposeful stride, handsome chiselled features and gleaming epaulettes ...

... stepping out of a C150 ....

Sorry, only joking !;)

[JamesTigris]

HJ
You hit the nail on the head, the CPL has its own specific requirements that are worth building up if thats what you want to do.

Your advice is appreciated, and I am keen to pick a place and get my head around the problems.

Being a professional pilot (in the renumeration sense) is optional, I would say enjoying it is mandatory (considering the sacrifices made to make it possible!)

SR
What is your website?

[Pace]

James

An excellent run for a new PPL is to work yourself down the west coast of France to San Sebastian which is tucked just round the corner in northern Spain. That way you are over low ground and have loads of airfield bolt holes to jump into.

If you cross the channel around the isle of white you can then fly down the coast with a good view of the channel isles off to your right.

Picking up the coast again to the west of Nantes and calling in at La Rochelle you can then fly for miles very low level along the beaches to San Sebastian in Spain. That is a memorable run which every PPL should do at some time.

On this you have coastal features all the way easy airspace and as stated loads of alternatives.

Once in San Sebastian you can either head back or if your feeling good proceed on down through Spain to North Africa.

Take care and know your limits even if you push them now and again

Pace