View Full Version : What's happening with AIPA's Qantas Sale Act case?

20th Sep 2009, 20:53
What's the latest on this court case?
I thought the interocutory hearing was scheduled for Sept 22 and the chances of a favourable result high.
Yet I've just heard from a mate on Com that AIPA in their wisdom are scambling to discontinue prior to the 21st with rumours they'll still have to bear the costs.
Go figure.
There goes any chance of the GOAL.
I'd better dig out that Jetstar contract again and work out what I'll end up being paid.:mad:

21st Sep 2009, 12:13
:ouch: The rumble from downunder is it has been sold for 30 pieces of silver?

The Mr Fixit
22nd Sep 2009, 08:30
When your committee of management dumped the President and the GM they also dumped the case that was part of the deal....or should I say the 30 pieces of silver. Our union assisted with lots of info to assist you guys to be on a winner it's a pity it's turned out this way but that's what you get for having little faith in those that had turned your union around. Our union is now under attack from the same clowns that orchestrated the bloodbath at yours I hope my brothers realise the charade that the rat in the paddock is pulling before making any rash decisions.

22nd Sep 2009, 22:26
It cannot go ahead as if AIPA win Jetstar cannot do International flying.

AIPA has been very active in bringing the Jet* boys and girls on board.

AIPA now want to increase their power base and you cannot bring Jet* on board then take away their flying.

This is about Union power not fairness or justice for QF pilots

Capt Kremin
22nd Sep 2009, 22:47
Jetstar could do international flying if they painted the words "Qantas", probably in very small font, on their aircraft. That would fulfill the letter of the Act and is the reason why there was little point in going forward.

23rd Sep 2009, 02:16
Yes. 'A Qantas Group Airline' in very small words at the back of the aircraft- the same as Australian had- would meet that part of the requirement.

EXEK1996, if AIPA were to win the case that doesn't mean that J* aircraft (and crew) can't continue to fly overseas. It does mean that some things would change but I don't seriously expect that any J* crew would be under threat.

Transition Layer
23rd Sep 2009, 02:58
'A Qantas Group Airline' in very small words at the back of the aircraft- the same as Australian had- would meet that part of the requirement.

Hmm...doesn't it say that on their 330s already?


23rd Sep 2009, 05:58
Believe the implementation of a Group Opportunity Allocation List (The GOAL) would restrain Qantas' globalisation plans in a manner not dissimilar to what would have been required, had the applicant for the Qantas Sale Act case been successful in his endevours.

Understand the case provided leverage to negotate a win/win outcome for Qantas and all its pilots.

That AIPA blinked is simply unbelievable!

That Qantas didn't have the forsight to settle, will now make it that much harder for the Company to have the Sale Act amended to accommodate the forces of global competition its needs to overcome if it is to survive.

Tis truely a pity that yesterday's hearing in the Federal Court didn't go ahead. If it had, the door would now be open to meaningful negotiation.:{

25th Sep 2009, 00:42
Scuttlebutt on the hangar floor is Qantas is over the moon about the union’s decision to walk away from this case.

Talk is, now that it’s out of the way; Jetstar can go ahead in leaps and bounds. It can now grow unhindered by the Sale Act and join up with other low cost airlines to hire pilots from where ever it wants and get all its maintenance done in China.

Very disappointed guys. Thought pilots had the good sense not to walk over cliffs. :*

26th Sep 2009, 00:47
Have sighted an email on the letterhead of a consultant that states
As it now stands, Jetstar is considered not to be constrained by the Qantas Sale Act, and as such, can now grow unhindered; join up with other low cost airlines, hire pilots from where ever it wants and get all its maintenance done in Asia; should this be the decision of an International Leasing Company to be jointly owned by Jetstar and (say) Ryan Air, Etc.

What a stuff up.

26th Sep 2009, 00:58
Had my younger brother on the phone last night yelling and screaming about AIPA's canning of this case. Admittedly he was very upset but he was told that the union president pulled it against the wishes of his committee.

26th Sep 2009, 03:05
he was told that the union president pulled it against the wishes of his committee.

Maybe your Brother should talk to any member of his union Committee whereby he'll discover that what he was told was incorrect. I've done just that.

27th Sep 2009, 00:53
Seems my brother hasn't got the full picture Captain. Will get a hold of him when I can and get back to you with the details.

Another instance of 'too close to the truth', perhaps.

27th Sep 2009, 08:03
As the Applicant for this case, I have followed this thread with interest.

Whilst I am not in a position to ‘spill the beans’ publically, to assist public understanding, I am comfortable with the following clarifications:

· I was instructed to discontinue the matter in a letter from the union president,
· The proceeding did give the union and all its pilot members leverage against declining job security and career progress,
· Union governance pertaining to the instruction to me to discontinue, is, in my opinion seriously deficient, but what flows from the deficiency is a matter for the union committee and/or its members to address,
· Prima facie, Qantas’ view that Jetstar is but a subsidiary of Qantas and not subject to the terms and conditions of the Qantas Sale Act stands, and
· Jetstar can hire pilots and cabin crew from anywhere it wants and can get all its maintenance done offshore.

Ultimately Australian international aviation must change and my personal preference, as evidenced by my support for LHEBA 8 and this case, is for organisational and workplace change that protects jobs, shares prosperity and keeps Qantas globally competitive.

With the demise of the LHEBA8 Offer and the Discontinuance of this Case, my fear is that too few people have the courage to confront the necessary change and too many of tomorrow’s Pilots, Cabin Crew and Engineers will not be persons who call Australia home.

Nevertheless, it isn’t over yet; the GFC and Qantas’ need to fund $19 Billion’s worth of new aircraft may yet give ‘sanity’ another chance.

The Australian Employee Buyout Centre (AeBc) is coming.:)

27th Sep 2009, 22:58
In view of the above Buster, have told my brother to sit on his hands and wait to see what action the union committee takes.

29th Sep 2009, 05:24
Heard through the grapevine that Joyce was up in New York the other day trying to solicit money from the Masters of the Universe on Wall St.
Did they give him any?:bored:

29th Sep 2009, 10:42
Know little about AJ's plea for money Blown, but the following article suggests he isn't going to find it cheap to source.
Dow Jones Newswires (http://www.dowjones.com/)
QANTAS passenger numbers in August rose by 6 per cent from a year ago, but Jetstar more than doubled its international passenger load.

Capacity cuts at Qantas helped its revenue seat factor - the measure of how many seats it fills across its fleet - improve by 2.8 points to 80.5 per cent.

Qantas carried 3.4 million passengers across its domestic and international networks in August, as capacity - measured by available seat kilometres - fell by 4.8 per cent from a year ago.

International passenger numbers on its discount airline, Jetstar, more than doubled to around 325,000, but its mainline international passenger numbers fell by 26 per cent to around 466,000.

Qantas said its domestic yields for the two months to August were 13 per cent lower than a year ago, with international yields down 23 per cent.

And the union didn't go down to the wire. :8

2nd Oct 2009, 04:11
So where to now?
What leverage does AIPA have left to progress the aspirations and interests of it's members?
Or is AIPA so bereft of stategy that the strategy is now to just rollover and accept lower pay and conditions from here on in?
(A380 excepted of course, the new ,soon to be ,Qantas "A" scale!:ooh:)
That's right the "new EBA" to be negotiated, will be our saviour,can't wait!
How strangely "Holtesque" this all seems!:eek:

The masked goatrider
2nd Oct 2009, 11:38
The strategy is a sound one.

Continue the case started by the dumped President that would restrict Qantas and all its subsiduaries (Jetstar) to employ the majority of staff in Australia (it sounds good to me).

Wait until the very day before a decision was about to be made, and drop the case.

I wonder what little deals were done the night before.

Am hearing that the LAMEs might be taking the case over.

2nd Oct 2009, 22:03
The case is more valuable to the operatives and agents of competiting international airlines wanting to muscle in, than it is to the Qantas group of unions.

Given the confidentiality that is said to be attached to it, suspect AIPA threw the baby out with the bath water when it dumped its former president.

How stupid some people are.

2nd Oct 2009, 23:00
Like I said, "How Holtesque "of the new crowd.
What's the number of that truck driving school again Mav?:ok:

wombat watcher
3rd Oct 2009, 00:40
The baby should have been thrown out with or without the bathwater. His court cases were absolute failures with one possible exception and in that one, there is no point having the ability to sign up members if their Award is "owned" by another union. Now to rectify that issue will be the battle of all time. Can you imagine the AFAP handing over their respondency for the JQ Award to AIPA without a major fight?
This case was probably another case in point: pursuing his current, at the time, looney idea with someone else's money.
If you read a post above, his latest fruitloop project is the "AeBc".
It is an admirable aim to attempt to stop QF transferring flying to JQ at the cost of promotions in QF but bulls..t legal posturing is unlikely to deliver the results being targetted.