Maintenance for Pilots

[Pilotette]

I recently ferried an aircraft interstate where the company I work for has its maintenance done and while I was there tried to use the opportunity to learn as much as I could. Luckily, the engineers doing the 100hrly were more than happy for me to hang around at the hangar and help as much as I could to ensure a quick turnaround. The guys were extremely helpful and showed me a lot, but it made me realise just how little I know. I obviously know how to do the easy/general stuff like oil changes etc but have always wanted to learn more than just the basics about the aircraft I fly as I believe it is a really important part of being a pilot.
I have previously downloaded and read the CASA 'Maintenance Guide for Pilots' which basically only covers the Schedule 8 maintenance but was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of some more interesting reads or even basic AME courses that can be done. I know the best way to learn is through hands-on experience and will be hoping to get more of it when I can but in the meantime would appreciate any advice on the subject.
Thanks in advance! :)

[The Green Goblin]

You can purchase AME logbooks called "schedule of experience" an everytime you complete an item and it is to the satisfaction of your supervising LAME h/she will sign you off. Once you have completed the engine and airframe logs you can sit your exams and become a LAME.

I did just that although never completed all the components of the logs and never sat for the licence.

Will help you out in kunus working in the hanger when you're not flying and it may be the selling point for your next job if you can call yourself an AME :)

[Horatio Leafblower]

I have been (still am) in the same boat as you.

Can I recommend you talk to your LAMEs about the textbook they use? I am slowly borrowing the Jeppesen A&P manuals from my LAME mate.

:ok:

[Peter Fanelli]

Will help you out in kunus working in the hanger when you're not flying and it may be the selling point for your next job if you can call yourself an AME


Unless you are applying for a job with a company that likes to skimp on the maintenance.

[The Green Goblin]

Quote:
Will help you out in kunus working in the hanger when you're not flying and it may be the selling point for your next job if you can call yourself an AME
Unless you are applying for a job with a company that likes to skimp on the maintenance.

Even better, a pilot is a lot cheaper than an engineer especially if you need to fix something on location and have it signed off by the LAME when it gets back :ok:

[Arnold E]

Signed off by a LAME, when it gets back. Cricky:eek:

[Pilotette]

Thanks for the advice so far, I will definitely be talking to the LAME. Just a question with regards to the Schedule of Experience, do you need to do an apprenticeship type thing to be able to complete each item or would you be able to do them while volunteering and helping out?

especially if you need to fix something on location and have it signed off by the LAME when it gets backThat is another reason why I would like to get into this side of things, it would be handy to be able to do whatever needs doing myself and then to get it signed off.

[sms777]

C'mon girl, just fly the damn things, do not try to fix'em, leave that to Jaba and Me.
I am a mechanic by trade and a CPL and trying to make money out of both (not succeding). I do know how you feel but sometimes just let all your frustrations stay in your flightbag and relax let the guys that spent 5 hard years of apprentiecship learning how to fix things properly. If you want to know what you can do without qualifications look up CAR...(sorry i forgot).
Cheers :ok:

[Pilotette]

sms777, thanks for the words of advice :} but I would still like to know what I am looking at or for if something near the spinning end isn't right! I by no means want to take work away from those that have spent years getting the qualifications but sometimes getting a LAME to have a look is a mission in itself...maybe I need to learn to be more patient? :p

[sms777]

Patience is the key to long life and success.... according to some silly chinese bugger in a long dress... but seriously if you want to learn to stay alive in aviation without the expensive maintenance bills produced by US experienced AIRCRAFT ENGINEERS, you got some serious studying to do. Please do not try to do short cuts because safety is PARAMOUNT in aviation and i do not want you to become one of the statistics.

Fly safe Grasshopper :ok:

[Jabawocky]

I never have a problem signing out the MR away from home:ok:

Its a good thing for some hey sms777:)

[sms777]

You got that right Jaba!......:ok:

[Arnold E]

Err, what do you mean Jabba?

[Pilotette]

Point taken and I completely agree when it comes to safety and you guys being more experienced! Don't worry, I never really have been one for taking shortcuts..I enjoy living too much!
You guys do sound like you have the best of both worlds though :ok:

[Jabawocky]

Errr, exactly what I said Arnold.

Fortunately I have never had to do it so far! But I can! :)

[Andy_RR]

Best way to learn about how aircraft tick is to build your own...

[tail wheel]

I have a lot of respect for pilots that understand aircraft mechanics and are able to effectively and accurately diagnose problems.

You could undertake a part time Cert II or IV in Aero Skills Mechanical (traineeship or apprenticeship in aircraft engineering), which is generally funded by State Governments.

Send me a PM if you require further details.

[the air up there]

I agree with tail wheel, pilot that can accurately diagnose a problem for the engineers is highly respected by them.

Rather than stating, left engine running rough. State which mag. Then when you drop it off, tell them when it started, how bad, and what stage of flight if applicable and then how you diagnosed the problem. They should always go and run it themselves but they go straight to the problem. Saving you and them time. Could also save you money as well.

Simple stuff, but a couple of correct calls in a row and they will begin to trust your judgement.

Oh, and if either one makes a call thats it's not airworthy, then don't accept it.

[Pilotette]

Thanks everyone. Tailwheel, much appreciated, with your help I have found information on the Cert II in Aeroskills that can be done through TAFE. It looks like it is a 12month Full-Time course which then leads onto the apprenticeship and the Cert IV but I am going to go along to the course info evening to find out more. Am I right in saying it looks like this is only one of a few different avenues though?

[MMA_Historicflight]

To become a LAME now from start to finish, you have to complete a 4 year apprenticeship, or a 1yr pre app, and 3yrs app. The rules have changed and no longer you can rock up and get your 4 years "industry experience" do the Exams and get your licence. However if you go to TAFE its a primarily theory only with little practical. What you learn on the job you re learn in depth in the text book. There is only so much a book can tell you. PM me if you want more info

[Mr.Buzzy]

Oh this is so funny!
I just love the way pilots think they can just "hang around a hangar" for a while and fill out a SOE, sit a few exams then, hey presto...."Im a LAME"

I might "hang around" the local courthouse or hospital and see what I can add to my super shiny pilot resume!

Don't kid yourselves kids. Good LAMES are trained by good LAMES and good LAMES don't teach their art overnight!

bbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[no oil pressure]

You're either a Pilot or an Aircraft Engineer, you can't be both at the same time (you can hold both qualifications obviously). Trust me it doesn't work. Pilots are a dime a dozen and are falling off trees. Good AME's are highly sort after, few and far between. You'll only get trapped in the hanger with bugger all flying unless someone doesn't show for a flight. The knowledge gained in the hanger will help obviously with your system knowledge of the aircraft and just might be able to avoid nasty situations and traps that others fall into without the experience that you've gained.

Goodluck with it. :ok:

PS: yes its a romantic idea to work a few days in the hanger and the rest in the air - practically, you're an AME who fills in as a pilot.

[Torres]

I beg to differ.

One of the finest GA pilots I know has 30,000 plus hours flying experience (including 400 hours in Spitfires, Mustangs and other warbirds), is a Grade 1 Instructor and is also a very competent and current LAME with the PT6 on his LAME license.

I have the greatest respect for pilot - LAMEs, whether GA or airline, who have dedicated their career to mastering their trade.

[no oil pressure]

Torres,

With respect, there are exceptions for everything. I was giving advice from my experience and of those that I've seen fall into the same trap. Although I did fail to give both sides of the story as with the point that you have clearly made.

You make you're own luck, prosperity and opportunities.

I also know of an individual who has more than 20,000 hours of GA flying of which a vast majority is instructing, Groups 1 and 3 Engine, 1 and 2 Electrical, 1, 3 airframe (there are some that I've missed and you'll have to forgive me.) Yes, both are possible, opportunities such as these are few. Although my point was that you're either a full time pilot and a part time engineer or vice versa.

I'm sure we could go on forever, back and forward about this topic, I was merely putting forward some material for consideration just as you have. Both are extremely valid.

[smiling monkey]

Slight thread drift here, but did many of the ex-flight engineers for Qantas, TAA and Ansett become pilots? I remember a youngish 727 flight engineer in one of my CPL theory classes in the early 90's doing his CPL training privately, hoping to become an F/O when the 727's were retired.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Torres

How is KH these days? :}

Cranky bugger :ouch:

[hung start]

i,ve been fixing and flying for 34 years , LAME for 30 years , i have been told by those that ( think ) they know better that you cant do both properly but NONE of them could do both . Yes it is hard work but if your in the right spot at the right time you can end up flying some real nice toys around the world for a pretty penny ( or a good dollar for you young ones ). If its something you want to do go for it , dont let some lazy bugger stop you .

[training wheels]

i,ve been fixing and flying for 34 years , LAME for 30 years

That's pretty good going for a 20 year old! :ok:

[Torres]

How is KH these days?

How did you guess? :}

Haven't spoken to him for awhile but last heard, semi retired, still tossing the tools, doing a little instructing and a few type endorsements. He was maintaining an amphibious Beaver because he's the only LAME around with round engine experience.

Flyin' or fixin' 'em - KH has forgotten more than most youngsters know.

[SeldomFixit]

And you'll tolerate the LAME, hanging around, during those quiet periods they all have, because no one ever enters anything on an MR, to pick up what he can to hone his piloting skills for how long ?:rolleyes:

[Arnold E]

Exactly what are you saying SeldomFixit?:confused::confused::confused:

[sprocket check]

Do it. Get some books or do the TAFE course or whatever. It will be good for you, your understanding of the machines you fly and your confidence.

You may not ever become a LAME but the knowledge you gain you will never regret. It will probably save your life one day.

As a fairly fresh PPL I took an aircraft straight out of a 100 hourly one day. Everything checked out perfectly. 400 or 500 mile round trip, last leg on landing I noticed the throttle not responding as it should. Only very mildly. Thought about taking the lid off and checking it out, but that is supposedly beyond my authority. Can change tyre but not throttle cable. Better be legal, right?

Anyway, on departure checks everything worked and felt perfectly. Off Iwent, last leg home. Over the tiger country, with flight plan, SARTIME, etc. Arrive home in circuit, pull the throttle back, flaps, final, over the threshold at idle, magic touchdown.

Increase throttle to get to my parking spot, no response.

Do a u-turn while I still have some energy in motion and roll up at the LAMEs hangar. Turns out they forgot to tighten the throttle bowden cable clip. It was just LUCKY it didn't let go earlier.

Only reason I didn't take the lid off was because some monkey wrote it in a book that I shouldn't.

Don't listen to monkeys. Live long, Pilotette.

[Peter Fanelli]

ArnoldE what SeldomFixit is saying is that many LAME's will not like to having someone looking over their shoulder while they're trying to work, just as you as a pilot would probably not like having a LAME riding shotgun in the cockpit with you on every flight making sure you don't break anything.
And that's OK, I'm not leveling any criticism at any LAME's for that, they have a job to do and don't need distractions while they do it.
But...find one who with the heart of a teacher and spend some time with him/her and you can learn a hell of a lot and become a much stronger cog in that wheel which is aviation.

I know from personal experience that
"There is a vibration through the airframe caused by the elevator trim tab fluttering when the airspeed reaches xxx knots on descent. Found that if the controls are held and tab would out of trim thus removing the slack in it the vibration vanishes instantly"

works a lot better than

"Instrument panel vibrates on descent"

[Aerohooligan]

On a side note, I thought I'd chime in and say how much respect I have for engineers who have time for pilots asking what no doubt seem like stupid questions. I recently had the pleasure of spending some time with one of the engineers at our company. He was only required to give me a quick lesson on the practicalities of jump-starting an aircraft (should that requirement ever arise out bush), but it wound up being a full hour and a half explanation of aircraft systems with a focus on the electrical side of things. I was stunned as a low time commercial pilot by the professionalism and enthusiasm for his suject that this bloke displayed, as well as his easy conversational nature and an obvious enjoyment in increasing my understanding.

No doubt he had a vested interest in ensuring that I hopefully would now have fewer ways to break the plane, with my slightly increased understanding, but regardless here's to true professionals. :D

[Pilotette]

Thanks for the replies, there have been some really good points raised here. Just to make it a bit more transparent, I'm not setting out to conquer the world with a naive belief that I will be able to become a LAME overnight as some posters have inferred. I basically just really want to learn a bit more and broaden my knowledge at this stage and if I were to get further it would be a bonus. I am aware that being a career pilot as well as a LAME is an extremely romantic idea and although it would be a great achievement, it is not realistic unless a great deal of time and effort (and blood, sweat & tears no doubt) were put into it. I have been lucky with the engineers I have been around in that they have all been really enthusiastic and more than happy to share their wisdom and I would never be brazen enough to make a nuisance or hindrance of myself. :=
I am extremely grateful for the experience I had on this recent maintenance trip, I arrived at the hanger and was greeted by a group of smiling faces, none of which I had met previously. (It has since occurred to me that they were actually probably smiling at the fact I was sitting on 2 cushions :O) Nonetheless, they took time out of their busy schedule and offered me a quick cuppa. I knew how much work they had going on and offered to help in any way that I could and the head LAME jumped at the offer and handed me a pair of overalls. My first job was to de-panel the wings, followed by a number of other odd jobs and I eventually settled into cleaning the aircraft from top to bottom and inside out. I didn't expect to be shown or taught anything but every now and then, while I was under the aircraft polishing away, I would be invited to see what they were doing and shown how to look for certain things. I really enjoyed learning from the guys and if they are anything to go by, there are some really top maintenance engineers out there. Thanks again guys :ok: