Saif Sareea - was it worth it?

[Ali Barber]

If we wait for the lessons learnt...oops, I mean lessons identified as we don't learn them any more, it will be 3 volumes thick and we'll all wait for the movie instead of reading them. So, the question is... was it worth it?

[RubiC Cube]

A remarkable piece of forward thinking to enable the planned deployment of troops and equipment to be in the right place at the right time for the next conflict even before we knew it was going to happen!

[lightbob]

Shame they didn't pack their winter warfare kit. I guess someone is busy back in UK filling boxes with the stuff. And the new SA80.

[MarkD]

Not quite so fortunate - Ocean needs refit after SS2 so they're talking about using Illustrious, Fearless and 2 RFAs together to do what Ocean was designed for - HQ for 3 Commando Bde and rotary transport of same.

Plus Buff is doing backflips to make it not look like the ground force are being deployed from Oman - no-ones going to believe otherwise lads so why not drop the pretence and give them a visit by the Queen in a few years to make up for it or something? :rolleyes:

[Edited to add the two RFAs - forgot about them]

[ 25 October 2001: Message edited by: MarkD ]

[Armadillo]

Woz it bollox. The SS2 raging goat far exceeded my wildest imagination. Never in the field [desert] of human endeavour have I seen so little ****ing direction.
And it was hot

[The Gorilla]

A absolute national disgrace, but I guess the Politicians will be told it was a great success. If we ever do it for real, lives will be lost due to the complete lack of leadership.

Tony and Gordon, if you want us to do the job make sure we have the proper resources.

[Adastral]

Someone told me the other day that Oman might become a more permanent det. Any truth to these rumours? (Or was the guy just trying to depress me?!!)

:(

[Capt Widebody]

Depends which Ice Station in the frozen north you belong to Adastral, but it's looking like there's some substance to that rumour from where I'm sitting :( . Watch this space....

[BEagle]

Ah well - the TTTIPs (They Think They're Important People) will be watching a 'Fahrpahhr' demo this week and making all the usual cooing and clucking sounds to their 'generous hosts' as they have a week away from the coal face at the taxpayers' expense!

Didn't I always say that this was going to be a total shambles??

We have sufficient CPTs caused by real world events to obviate the need for theses wasteful and morale-sapping exercises. Now that the Great Omani Adventure Training (GOAT) exercise is over, can those who need to please get on with real world matters?

[fatal bert]

Sorry to p##s on your bonfire boys, but I, and most of the guys I was out with, found SS2 to be a pretty decent exercise with some of the best flying I have experienced in some time. As always it was made by the 'can do' attitude of everyone involved and yes there are some big lessons to learn. Overall though I don't want to ever go again, but I'm glad I didn't miss it.

[JimNich]

Was there an exercise in the desert? Ah BOLLAUX, I went an' gone and missed it din't I. Must've been distracted by sumink else.

BHUM! No one tells me ANYTHING! :mad:

[MrBernoulli]

Biggest load of b*ll*cks I have ever had the misfortune to be involved in. Disorganised in the extreme.

[Avoiding Action]

So, apart from the lack of planning, lack of leadership, wastage of money, broken ships, minimal resources, hotel ratings only matching the number of stars on your vehicle pennant, disorganisation, low morale and Geri Halliwell turning up it was a resounding success then? :D :D :rolleyes:

[jockspice]

Apart from all cabs being used for VIP transport so no real training could be achieved, **** poor light levels so nvg was getting silly and crabs doing what the f*ck they liked, it wasn't bad. Everyone got a tan, did a bit of phys and brushed off all the lost skills of living and operating in the field ( for those of you in the crabs, that doesnt mean a hotel with less than two stars, it means living under canvas :D ).
Pity the OWP didnt live up to expectations and will no doubt be a big issue in the PXR. More satphones!!! ;)

[BEagle]

Jackspice - I'm sure your stupid comments about field conditions will be well appreciated by those unfortunate 'crabs' whose required presence in this theatre of operations is going to require them to suffer an extended stay in their desert prison camp.

No doubt all the "Must go and see the chaps, presh the flesh, get the grass roots view" high-price w@nkers who will turn up around Christmas will also stay in Al Butlin's? Or maybe they'll have to put up with the 'normal' standards of the Intercont.?

At a time when "The chief problem is that of adequate crew rest" for crews required far to exceed mandatory fatigue limits, for a Certain Senior Officer allegedly to have said, one day, to a sqn co-pilot that 'there is a fine divide between Flight Safety and blackmail' would be an act of gross negiligence in failing to act on the genuine concerns of his subordinates.

Gross Negligence. Ring any bells?? B£oody well ought to.....

[ 04 November 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]

[jockspice]

Beagle
Pot calling kettle - colour check over! :p
My "stupid comments" were about the fact that the aircraft and crews were taken off training to perform tasks of a less than important nature, which could no doubt have been more comfortably achieved with a Land Cruiser or two.
As to people staying out out there longer than intented, Im off back out there with the rest of the guys to await a mission which may never happen and to float about in the oggin for Christmas, so forgive me if I dont shed a tear for those in hotels.

Your adequate crew rest comment, albiet one that others who frequent PPRuNe will be sick to the eye teeth of hearing, is absolutely true and is a problem. The problem arises, and did in this particular desert extraveganza, when people who fly once every 2 days and "dont fly on Fridays" and get their air conditioning STILL bleat about adequate crew rest. Didn't realise that so many had to remove their spine before climbing into a flight suit. :mad:
So please dont take that line with those who were out there and saw the work others did with no complaint or worries of flight safety whilst operating and living in the field- its just embarrassing to the rest of us who wear wings.
Finally, as for the "desert prison camp", it was a damn site more spacious and comfortable than the alternative and the lack of aircon allows you to acclimatise more quickly. Going from cold to hot to cold to hot reduces stamina, fluctuates body skin temp, increases sweating and lowers body salt content. Isn't this a factor in the reduction of operational capability and therefore must be a flight safety problem? Oh sorry, obviously not if you wear light blue. :rolleyes:
(Apologies to the albert drivers and mud movers who I conflabbed about this snag with - your efforts during the ex were mega appreciated! :D )

Time for bed said Zebadee........... :p

[BEagle]

'Staying out there longer than intented..' How true!

Best of luck bobbing up and down on the briny in your little grey boat over Christmas though mate!!

[ 04 November 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]

[Pilot Pacifier]

So Jockspice, you seemed to have conveniently forgotten about the “crabs” that were living in the field with you. The same “crabs” that you were reluctant to debrief with as the beech assault was such a cock-up with the Sea Kings holding one mile from the LZ. The same “crabs” that had to go into a hot LZ the next day due to the Sea Kings once again holding one mile from the landing point, alerting all the enemy troops. And when asked why, the reply was, “We always do it like that!” Well, you will only ever do it once mate! (The Wokka’s held 10 miles away by the way as they can work out a distance, TOT calculation.) The same “crabs” that the Navy were reluctant to give the ATO to, as they thought we didn’t need it, (with a Sea King infringing the local BDZ due to the lack of it as well.) I see that you don’t complain about the “crabs” that gave you a lift to Muscat, even though you had to sit on the floor of the Hercules, having just turned up at the movers with no booked seat. And no complaint about “crabs” that then gave you lift on a Tristar home so that you could get back early, again just turning up at the movers.

Call yourself the Senior Service, I now know why, old, antiquated and stuck with tradition (“We always do it like that…”)

Fear God, honour the King! Get real, stay alive…

[MrBernoulli]

Oh dear! Things appear to be getting a little heated here. We're all on the same side fellas.............aren't we?

BEagle's comments re the flight safety side of things for the 'junior service' are absolutely correct. I have just got back and I experienced it myself. Once the war kicked in it was 24 hour ops - crews moving in and out of the tents at ALL hours and your body clock not knowing its a**e from its whatsit. Fatigue set in very quickly indeed.

To top it all the US started building their field hospital within 20 yards of our accommodation using earth moving equipment and the ground literally shook beneath us.......while we ate the dust they churned up. THEY weren't having to fly missions into enemy airspace at all hours so they didn't seem to care.

When you go Sausage-side jockspice, then come and tell us about your experiences......without giving away any secrets of course.

[jockspice]

Pilot Pacifier
If you are refering to the crabs in the field with us who
1. Did what they like by turning a 2 hr tasking line into 6 by shutting down at Masirah with their goofers to go shopping at the PX,
2. Went to Masirah to do an engine change while everyone else did theirs in the field,
3. Managed to miss the LPD that was only 3 miles astern of the O boat and after 45 mins of searching went to Masirah and shut down,
then no, I wasn't refering to them. How can you accuse those next to you of not being with you?
I was refering to those who were making such a song and dance before the ex on these pages at their lack of hotels and aircon. I was also doing as many do on these pages, and adding a bit of banter (its in the dictionary) to the page and see what bit the hook. Congratulations! :D
As for the beach assault, since it was for press and VIPs who wouldnt know a tactical assault if it bit their butt, remaining a mile away round the headland out of sight may improve reaction to timing cock ups, don't you think?
Mixing with the VIPs, I dont believe anyone said "the Sea Kings were in plain view of the enemy - I cant believe it!". They were happy as pigs in poo. They didn't even comment that you could still hear the chinooks even though they were 10 miles away. :p

Crabs didnt give me a lift to Muscat either, that was a joy-filled bus ride to my comfy well-booked-in-advance seat, cheers!

MrBernoulli
It would be my pleasure but chances are the press will know before we do.... :D

[ 05 November 2001: Message edited by: jockspice ]

[Ambler]

Never in my military service have I EVER come across such a cluster as SSII. As for the Brigadier in the Soldier magazine saying that it "was Autumn and Combat Assault Boots would be more than adequate to deal with the climate........." well - has he ever left Upavon? They were more than adequate they cooked my plates and gave me atheletes feet to boot! (Excuse all the puns) I also had to laugh at Mr Portillo (man without porfolio) waxing lyrical about the new SA80 and saying that it's a disgrace that soldiers had to buy their own kit on their "meagre pay" - well correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't he something to do with defence at one time?