FRI

[Lucas Gap]

Right then Gentlemen (& Ladies!) November is fast approaching and with it and announcement about the way ahead for keeping us aircrew types in our respective Service. Trouble is the longer we wait the more eloborate the rumours and by the time we get to hear the decision it will be never meet our perceived expectations. That is of course if they who hold the purse strings don't decide that there is no longer a problem with retention post Sept 11. What have we heard about what it might be. I'll start off with mid-seniority Lt Cdrs salary £75000 with access to gratuity at IPP! :eek:

[Ali Barber]

I heard that the Treasury has realised that the pilot shortage is likely to disappear overnight because of the sudden surplus of pilots in the commercial market, courtesy of Smelly bin Liners recent act. They wanted to cancel round 2 of the FRI, but were told by some very high priced help that Service pilots would lose would lose what faith they had in the system and they would rather push wheelbarrows if that happened. It would be nice if we could believe that story but, personaly, I think we'll be lucky just to retain the FRI. If Lt Cdrs go onto 75 grand, it might be time to transfer to the RN!?

[cerberus_the_dog]

:confused: I have been involved in Military Training (including my own) for the best part of the last 20 years. What has been evident during this period is the cyclic nature of aircrew shortages one year (leading to massive panic recruiting) and a perceived glut (leading to knee-jerk redundancies) the next.
Understand that the RAF IPS 60 is an attempt, for once, to plan for a steady state manning in the first part of the next decade, balancing recruiting, training and retention to achieve the requirement. However, if the current downturn in fortune of the commercial airlines is viewed by the Treasury as a short term fix to the retention element, then we will be just setting ourselves up at the top of the rollercoaster for the next dip when airline business picks up again (as I'm sure it will eventually).
Ignoring the historic trends on which commercial/military balance rides will be just barking!

...£75K eh?? mmmmmaaaarrooooggghhh (in Homer Simpson drool!) :cool:

[Adastral]

C-in-C STC was up at a Northern Airbase not so long ago (OK, it was before the 11th Sep!) and he was reasonably confident that the FRI was not going to be brushed under the carpet.

It wouldn't take that much to tip the balance for me. All they have to do is ramp up the pay on a yearly basis from 32 to 38 so that the subsequent drop in pay (on leaving at 38) becomes less attractive than at present.

If they could find a way to pay your gratuity (or equivalent with an interest free loan, for example), then they will have lost one of the big push factors in that, at present, they are paying you to leave.

When you hit that time of life it would be nice to be able to set up your home for your family. A lump sum (which they simply be loaning you against your final gratuity) would certainly come in handy.

This could be an ideal chance to regain a bit of credibility after the last bungled effort. Don't blow it! :cool:

[Capt Widebody]

cerberus, you speak much sense - this is the widely held view amongst many I have spoken to.

Let's all reassure ourselves that the treasury won't consider the problem solved due to the current airlines' situation. We should consider all the wonderful long-term financial and management plans they have implemented over recent years to make us all feel better...

For example... Errmm :confused: ....

[Tonkenna]

If there is anyone out there at the higher echalons reading this, how about some sort of message to say, Yes it is still being looked at, or No its being brushed under the carpet. I have a couple of mates who would like to know whether to hang on for it or not.

I certainly hope that they don't, as some would leave regardless of the market outside.

Has anyone heard how people are getting on in re-applying to get in?

Tonks

[Happy.on.FW]

For what it's worth, I had heard that although PMA are being a little less 'customer friendly' to some pilots now that the tide's turned a little regarding airline jobs, all those rescinding PVRs plus those less likely to leave in the near future are still just scratching the surface compared with the actual/expected empty cockpits over the coming years. Result being that it is accepted that it is just a minor 'blip' and that if the planned incentive package is withdrawn things will just be ten times as bad in a couple of years time when the airlines are back on track, compared with just before the 11th Sept and therefore a package still has to be a significant incentive to retention....

[Adastral]

Heard a similar thing today. Although a few escapees have contacted PMA, virtually none have actually taken the option to come back. At least, not enough to solve the current manning crisis.

Will the bean counters listen? ... two hopes!

[Miles Magister]

Has anyone got any detailed gen on the curent rumour of a dual career list. ie high flyers and just flyers. One senior officer was overheard recently talking about 77.5k as a final salary for flyers who stay in to 55. Any other news?

[Zagzagel]

Adastral, I totally agree with your comment about being paid to leave. I am fast approaching the time to make a decision about my future beyond 38. I don't want to leave particularly but I can't really afford to stay in either. I would like a house of my own and would use the gratuity as a large deposit. To do that I need to leave. Catch 22. However, if the rumour is true about 75k salaries then I would think the problem is over. I wouldn't give a monkeys about the gratuity as I could afford a big mortgage on that kind of salary.

Many have said that this isn't about money BUT, who in their right mind would fly rubber dog s**t out of Hong Kong if you could stay in with your chums and take home a handsom salary. :)

[Tonkenna]

Zag,

Couldn't agree more. I still have a couple of years before I have to start making choices and I too do not whish to leave, but we are payed to leave. Money is not everything, but boy does it help. The gratuity would really help ease the burden in the house stakes.

But, there are still so many other problems. I am now getting a little tired of having more and more restrictions placed on the a/c I fly cause it was not sorted out in the first place. Oh well.

Tonks

[LambJalfraezi]

I remain doubtful of the ability of the purse holders to grasp the reality of the situation. I fly rotary, and get @40k per yr (Mid-seniority Flt Lt on top rate). A PMA type told me recently that if I cared to look at the civvy market, then I would realise that I was being well paid. Ermm....not really. A civvy pilot (rotary) generally flies and...oh yeh, he just flies. I am a helicopter pilot for 30 hrs in a good month, and am in the RAF doing military stuff for the remaining hundreds of hours, but not being paid anymore than the guy who just flies. My wife and I would like to settle in the UK but cannot afford a house anywhere that we would like to live ( and I'm not talking about the SE or London). Like many in the forces, I am not on the housing ladder because it is simply not practical. We rented our last house and it turned out to be a nightmare. After going to court to get our last tenents evicted, we got shot of it and gave up the property market. My salary will not pay for a decent house, it is as simple as that. If I leave and take my gratuity (commuted to the maximum), then I can buy my wife the house that she wants, and give her the stability that she craves. I might get bu**ered around by some civvy helo company ( Since Sep 11 the demand for rotary pilots has gone up), but my family will be sorted. If I stay in, we all lose...Unless I am paid enough to get what I need for my family. Simple. What would it take? Difficult question really but approx 60k per year would pay the mortgage, and the rest of my life would be secured by the pensionable flying pay (NON_NEGOTIABLE - You tax it...Pay me my pension!!!). If flying pay is not pensionable, then I will leave on principle, no matter how much they pay me.

[ 27 October 2001: Message edited by: LambJalfraezi ]

[Hengist Pod]

Then again many in the forces are on the housing ladder; you've just got to have your wits about you. How much molly-coddling do you need? 60 grand?! You're 'aving a larf mate!

[Hydraulic Palm Tree]

Hengist my dear chap

If you don't think you:

A. Do enough at work to be worth £60K.

or

B. Could earn £60 in civvy street.

You must be a bluntie or a stacker. In either case perhaps you could take note that this forum is for military aircrew and not for the likes of you. I understand that there is a bulletin board especially for you and your chums at www.countingpaperclips.com. (http://www.countingpaperclips.com.)

HPT
:cool:

[grimfixer]

Hengist dear boy, you won't have to worry about the 60k figure if you are still dodging salutes and putting on a sad, bitter and twisted face!!!
:D :p