View Full Version : Hawk Crash RAF Valley
peterward
29th Sep 2001, 01:43
Just heard about a Hawk crash earlier today at Mona. Has anyone got any gen and is the chap involved ok?
SinkingMallard
29th Sep 2001, 01:58
Check out
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/wales/newsid_1569000/1569487.stm
rudekid
29th Sep 2001, 02:04
Apparently crashed mid to late afternoon with one student POB. Word in the bar was that he got out and was not majorly hurt. Understand he had to go to hospital for usual checks and hopefully they'll find nothing wrong with him.
Another good effort from Martin Baker. Nice one monkey boy!
And as he kicked off the drift he inadvertantly depressed the brake even thought though there were no marks on the runway. Although the ADR cannot ascertain this fact, the student was found guilty as charged.
BOI Dec 01
Whipping Boy's SATCO
29th Sep 2001, 11:02
Flight Lieutenant Mike Parry told BBC Wales: "When the pilot ejected he obviously lost control of the aircraft."
Is this a statement of the bleedin obvious?
awayday
30th Sep 2001, 18:38
BHP wrote: "Although the ADR cannot ascertain this fact, the student was found guilty as charged."
You must be prive to the fastest BOI IFS has ever seen. Clever boy!
TheWelshOne
1st Oct 2001, 01:29
Yes - bloody obvious - but that what the reporter asked earlier but edited his question out - the general public think that the autopilot takes over, and makes sure the ac crashes outside schools and villages etc etc - anyway I resent your remark and if you want to make it personal then ring me on 7703 - bye the way I did not catch your real name.... :D
Mavrik
1st Oct 2001, 16:17
TheWelshOne ... you must either be a student or an instructor at valley ... either way you're a bit of a loser ... why don't you come to the front line and make it personal ... that is of course if you know where the front line is!?
Nice one awayday i'm with you ... TheWelshOne obviously can't take any banter ... he must be an instructor!!!!!!! :p
Tiger_mate
1st Oct 2001, 20:49
Objection your honour! Tarring all instructors with one brush is offside :)
>"Nice one awayday i'm with you ... TheWelshOne obviously can't take any banter ... he must be an instructor!!!!!!!"
Look at his profile:
A Welsh trainspotting engineer!! ..nuff said!
When I was at said Welsh air base there was an ATCO whose hobby was:
a) Tippexing out the faces of chopped students on the course photos, &
b) Collecting bus numbers at Piccadily bus stn, I kid you not!!! You a ppruner Adrian?
TM
CFS thingybob
TheWelshOne
1st Oct 2001, 22:17
Fish never bites same worm twice though!!
;)
Mike Cusack
1st Oct 2001, 22:21
I hear it stalled on landing flare ... alledgedly
Zagzagel
2nd Oct 2001, 05:53
The landing flare IS a stall innit? Or are we now teachin' carrier deck landings at Valley? Main thing is, before the thread becomes a food fight, the stude recognised a stall and got out. Makes all of those stalling demos and practices over the years well worth it I'd say. Good lad for getting out to fight another day. Perhaps add 10kts for Granny next time though! :D
If R Supwoods is correct and the student pilot allowed the speed to decay on the approach to land at Valley and thereby induced a stall at low level then this event bears striking similarity to that which occurred 2-3 years ago at RAF Cranwell. My understanding is that on this occasion an experienced Hawk Pilot had performed a run-in and break to land on runway 27 and got too low and too slow, realised it would be impossible to regain flying speed before the ground inconveniently got in the way and wisely decided to disembark the aircraft with the appropriate degree of urgency. The aircraft pancaked in to one side of the runway and the pilot lived to have lots of beers bought for him at the mess bar.
Clearly speed control on the aproach to land any aircraft is important - perhaps with the Hawk there is a smaller than usual margin between the correct speed and the 'oh **** ' speed? Or perhaps the pilots were just distracted at a critical stage of flight?
Alf Aworna
2nd Oct 2001, 20:06
More wild speculation and second guessing required.....not. The chap got out, thats the important bit. Let the BOI sort out the rest.
mr hanky
4th Oct 2001, 10:52
'The landing flare IS a stall innit?' Not in any jet I've ever flown (incl. the Hawk). A change in flight path certainly, but a stall? I hope not!
Tiger_mate
4th Oct 2001, 15:05
Alf said:
More wild speculation and second guessing required.....not.
Aircrew will never change and you will NEVER stop post accident speculation.
The chap got out, thats the important bit.
Agreed, I would think by ALL
Let the BOI sort out the rest.
BOI do not have the best reputation for a fair outcome, [Chinook BOI] more of a witch hunt by those above keen on their own careers. Quit often a better picture can be drawn by snippets of fact and speculation and people can learn from what may or may not have been. If banter here gets people thinking What if... then all of the above have been worth the seconds it takes to put your thoughts down.
BOI Police are a bit over the top here IMHO.
T-m
Now were is my flame retardent suit, Nomex, naw..its been washed once already
Genghis the Engineer
6th Oct 2001, 12:52
I've no desire to comment on the accident - I wasn't there, but I'll comment on some of the speculation.
It usually takes a couple of days to get the ADR out, down to Boscombe or Farborough, and then to read it.
I once worked on a Hawk crash investigation, it took me about a week to get the real meaning out of the ADR, and the BOI another month or two to de-classify and publish my analysis. Anybody saying they know what the ADR said is talking out of the wrong orifice of their growbag.
Also, if memory serves (I don't have current access to the data so maybe somebody can correct me) the Hawk ADR, which is very crude, does not record whether the ground brakes are being operated.
G