NFTC/OCUs

[Zagzagel]

Just heard some studes from NFTC in Canada are about to hit the OCUs. A couple of them are coming to the GR4. What's the news? Are they going to be any good or is this another course where the guys have to be retrained? :rolleyes:

[better livin]

Sounds like you've already made up your mind Zag. Why not wait and see?
Regards

[peterward]

Interesting point raised about the quality of NFTC studes. After flying both the T1 at Valley and now the 115 in Canada, it appears that NFTC is an excellent lead in for the modern day front line. That's not to belittle the standard of training or output from Valley, but the value of operating an aircraft with a HUD, MPD, INS/GPS, HOTAS and a modern weapon aiming and control system cannot be underestimated. The T1 may well prepare you for flying a fast jet, but cannot possibly prepare you as well as the 115 for operating a modern day glass cockpit. Many people may initially view NFTC in the same light as previous NATO flying training programmes, but the students here can already fly a fast jet and are being taught to apply those skills in operating in an environment more akin to todays front line. Canada offers a low flying training area the size of Europe, unlimited access to a vast air to ground range with the added benefits of flying with an ACMI pod. The students here are also introduced to more advanced scenarios such as leading a low level 4v1 mission. But with the first students arriving on OCUs as we speak, the front line will be able to form their own opinions of NFTC. However, Edmonton is nothing compared to a rockin' night out in Bangor...! :p

[OldBonaMate]

To :Zagzagel
What a shame that these lads will have to return to an outfit where attitudes like yours exist; I hope that you are alone in your view. It is obvious that you are ignorant of the training the RAF Phase IV students are receiving and of the people who are providing it. Question: have you any idea how many RAF instructors there are at Cold Lake? I think not. If you had, I think you may have had second thoughts before posting your comments because your colleagues at Cold Lake are likely to be none too pleased with you.

To Beermonkey:

I couldn't have put it better myself!

[ 29 September 2001: Message edited by: OldBonaMate ]

[vstol1]

To Zagzagel. What a shame you are forming an opinion before seeing the product. The training at NFTC is about the best Iv'e seen and I'm sure the pilots you get will not disappoint. Only time will tell of course. If you are instructing on the OCU I trust you wil do so with an open mind and even fairness. I agree with the sentiments of Beermonkey and old Bonamate entirely. Please write again in 6 months or so and let us know your opinion then.

[donkeykong]

Vstol, oldbona and beermonkey, well said. Lets see how they turn out and then make comment.

Maybe MFTS could pick up some tips from NFTC

Donks

[Zagzagel]

Sorry fellas. My post was deliberately provocative. I'm extremely open-minded and with 7? RAF guys out there I'm sure the product will be what we want.

However, I have heard negative mutterings and wondered what response the thread would generate. I'm pleased it's very positive - but it does seem that your posts are from 'over the Atlantic' and, therefore, biased? I'm being Devil's Advocate. The point made about the training being more appropriate to the front line because of HUD/HOTAS etc is spot on. I look forward to meeting the guys/girls soon.

I'm interested in more about NFTC though, so don't stop posting. :)

[Wholigan]

Just recently visited Cold Lake while on hols out here (spent 3 years there in the 70s on the 104 OCU (OTU) staff). The current facilities on 419 Sqn are amongst the best I have ever dreamed of. The instructors represent an outstanding cross-section of experience and expertise; the boss of the sqn is - in my opinion - one of the luckiest guys alive to have such a fine outfit to command (make the most of it Hillbilly!). The guys and gals going through the course will be given the opportunity to learn the trade on an aircraft that is very well suited to providing a good grounding for today's fighters, and in one of the best environments for training that exists. So, I agree with the previous posters and say -- give 'em a chance and see what they're made of when they're on your outfit. You may just be pleasantly surprised.

[Flt Lt Spry]

Zag - If the guys (they were all male on departing Canada) haven't started on the OCU yet then surely the only people who are qualified to comment on them are the ones in Canada? Maybe their comments are biased but not as biased as those who have made up their minds without flying with the poor fellows?! You've got three coming your way - they all worked hard on NFTC and I'm sure that they will all work hard at Lossie...

[Zagzagel]

Spry, I should hope they are STILL all male!
What do the studes think about NFTC? Jet, syllabus, instructors, airspace, weather, mosquitos etc etc. Someone mentioned MFTS. Didn't seem like there was much support for that in previous threads. Was that negativity due to ingorance too (I'm guilty your honour!)? Why is NFTC so different?

[Flt Lt Spry]

They have had a month's leave - God only knows what they have gone and done.

[peterward]

Probably nothing wholesome....

[Zagzagel]

Good to see everyone's enthusiastic about it then. I guess. :rolleyes:

[Brin Giton]

Firstly, Wholigan, can't understand why anyone would want to take hols in Cold Lake, though the rest of Western Canada would be awesome! :confused:

The training at NFTC must rate highly among modern courses - it certainly is MODERN and not many countries can offer training on a aircraft with HUD, INU/GPS, HOTAS (albeit limited) and both Colour & Monochrome displays. All this combined with rangeless "ACMI" (similar to RAIDS) for every trip, and a generally unhindered flying area.

The RAF certainly doesn't need another ENJJPTS (sp?), and I think they have probably gone about NFTC with that in mind. The numbers of staff from each nation taking part is one for every 3 students from that country, giving the RAF a total of 7 out of the 18 staff at Cold Lake. The Canadians themselves only have 8, so the RAF is on an almost equal footing there.

Given that all the RAF instructors there have all been QTI/QWI/QFIs (no intention in the order ;) ) at Valley, the RAF's interests should be well looked after.

I hope the OCUs receive the post-NFTC students with open arms and are flexible enough to cope with the inevitable differences that will occur (small enough but maybe significant, probably not all in a negative sense either). After all the OCUs will receive 1/3 of all their students form NFTC over the next 10 yrs - that is what the RAF have signed up for.

With MFTS and a replacement for the ageing T1/1A fleet a way off yet - NFTC seems a good way to bridge the gap. Lets not forget, we are not debating whether or not to sign up to NFTC, we are in it for the next 10 yrs.