Luton - 3rd World Airport

[Capot]

Having managed to avoid Luton for 20++ years, I had to come back though it earlier today.

I've been very rude, justifiably in my view, about LHR T4 and LGW, both of which herd their unfortunate customers into a badly designed, badly lit and badly run waiting area before struggling through the "UK Borders" channels. (For balance, I've also been complimentary about T5).

But, the 30+ minutes it took in the queue from the arrival pier to the Immigration desk at LTN gave me ample opportunity to reflect on an airport management so bad that it apparently thinks that this kind of dreadful facility is acceptable. Dear God, it makes even the BAA look professional.

I have been to over 200 airports in my career, spanning 30 years, mostly in the Middle East, Africa and various ex-USSR Republics, and I've never seen anything quite so bad; a kind of jerry-built tunnel with, today at least, some 600 - 700 people crowded into it, then the usual stupid maze to walk though, presided over by something that really frightens me, semi-trained coppers toting sub-machine guns and trying to look tough. (What in hell's name do they think they would do with those weapons in that situation? Start a fire-fight? God help us all.)

The comments from all around were in many languages, but the general astonishment that such a place could exist in the UK, a country many of its visitors still admire, was evident. The comparison with some of the worst in the world isn't mine alone. I heard many people make it to others in their groups, speaking French, Polish, German, even Arabic.

If I were in charge at Luton I would resign in shame that I preside over such a disgraceful shambles.

There's no necessity, if anyone were prepared to spend some of the profits. Even if the whole shambolic edifice cannot be torn down, there's enough space between the present UK Borders comb and the baggage reclaim to double, even treble the through-put rate and reduce the queues dramatically.

The management that couldn't give a toss about this situation is of course the same management that tries to charge £1 to use a trolley; luckily an employee pushing some of these through the hall saw the sense in allowing people who had disembarked some 50 minutes earlier to grab one without the £1. It's not the £1 that matters, it's the fact that few visitors land with £1 in their pocket. Ah yes, there's a convenient money exchange bureau right there; anyone ever check their x-rates?

Did I say 50 minutes? Wasn't the delay to UK Borders 30 minutes? Right, but the baggage carousel broke down, didn't it. What else would you expect in this 3rd world, badly-run, rip-off shambles of an airport?

And for God's sake lose the armed police; if they were to get over-excited it would be bloody carnage.

[caaardiff]

I've never flown from Luton, but i know that armed police are present in most airports in the country.
As for the comments about immigration, shouldn't your complaints be directed to the UK Border Agency, who provide the staff. Not the airports.
I'm sure it would just mean another thing they could tax us for!

[Capot]

Armed police terrify me in any airport, or indeed in any crowded situation...for the same reason. If they actually use their weapons they'll cause a massacre of the innocents, not just one Brazilian.

The only time I have seen an armed attack on an aircraft at an airport (in the Middle East) the numerous armed police slowly and carefully put their weapons down, thus saving the lives of several hundred people. Would the UK Police do the same? I wonder.

All the UK Border desks at LTN were manned today at the time the problems I described happened; there simply are far too few of them. That's the airport's fault, not UKBA's.

[Egerton Flyer]

Capot.
Luton could do with investment in its infrastructure, but so could every uk airport. It won't happen soon.
It could have more desks for immigration, they would probably not be staffed.
As for queues at immigration have you been to Bangkok?

This is the UK today. We don't like it but nothing's going to change soon if ever :ugh:

As for the armed police, I would much prefer that they stay and if I die in a hail of bullets, so be it.:ouch:

E.F.

[Final 3 Greens]

It won't happen soon.

What will happen soon, if it has not already, is the UK's slide into second world status.

I say this with no joy, as an expat with no plans to return.

It is becoming a disgusting country in many respects and the passive acceptance by the population is surprising - where has the self respect gone?

[Flying_Frisbee]

Today 05:39 Final 3 Greens
What will happen soon, if it has not already, is the UK's slide into second world status.
I doubt that, as the first and second worlds in the original quote (by a French journalist, apparently) were the Western and Eastern blocs. :8

[Thai Pom]

Try Manila

[compton3bravo]

Entirely agree with you three greens, as an ex pat myself having to return to the UK only occassionally fortunately now it is an absolute disgrace. A total rip-off, hardly anybody speaks English with an English accent. Not the place I grew up and spent many happy years working and bringing up a family. No more though, the place is an absolute shambles (i.e street in York where I grew up!). When you travel through Europe without hardly any hassle and freedom of travel (no borders) then get to the UK BORDER - what Europeans think I cannot imagine.
Unfortunately this UK BORDER thing was introduced far too late to try and keep the illegals out and why they want to go there defeats me - talk about shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.

[ericlday]

C3B....absolutely correct.

[Da Do Ron Ron]

capot, a major rant there but I don't see how it is justified. I've flown via LTN many times, albeit on holiday, and never had a problem.

The last time I flew to/from Luton was to Larnaca in May and was surprised how quick the check in and immigration was on our return.

As for the armed police, that's a sign of the times and I would rather have trained armed officers walking around opposed to some terrorist with a back pack.

Far worse airports out there, trust me

[Flying_Frisbee]

ericlday Today, 10:04 #9
C3B....absolutely correct.

Sure about that Eric?
Surely the UK needs immigrants to replace the folk that have left to become immigrants in, say, the South of Spain?
BTW, I didn't notice many English accents in Glasgow last time I was there. I expect Belfast and Cardiff might be the same.

Probably getting a bit OT from the original post about Luton airport.

[compton3bravo]

That is why Flying Frisbee a lot of people have left because there is just to many people in the UK for such a small geographic country.
Anyway back to the original point I certainly do not think Luton is a 3rd world airport been in much worse. Try Sharm El Sheik and Gibraltar for starters. As for immigration try Miami - you need the patience of Jobe there!

[nivsy]

Ummm...what is wrong with Gib airport - considering the pax that pass through? GFor me average time from check in to aircraft baording is under 30 minutes and that includes a cup of coffee or a beer in the terrace looking over the apron....with a duty free shop (yes albeit small) that is actually duty free!

What I hate about all UK airports is that they are shopping malls and when I come back into the UK the q's for immigration are far too long and despite being a UK passport holder you are required to Q for ages and it seems to me that it takes longer getting into "your country" than ever before. What would be wrong with a separate UK passport holder only Q? The other half always laughs - being an Aussie passport holder. She has in the past picked up our bags as she scoots through immigration before I have handed over my passport for the "once over".

Back on topic - yes Luton is in need of a make over.

Nivsy

[Dit]

I didn't notice many English accents in Glasgow last time I was there.What with it being in Scotland, I'd expect more Scottish accents than English anyway.

I expect Belfast and Cardiff might be the sameAs would I...

[Neptunus Rex]

Capot,

Mercifully, I have never been to Luton, nor its airport, and what you describe is simply awful. Let's spare a sympathetic thought for the poor souls who have to work there, day in day out.

:(

[IainB]

Having undergone AFO training in a previous life, you are doing the lads (and lasses) a disservice.

The training is no picnic and also requires requalification every quarter. And this for something we hope never to use.

How often do we resit a driving test, despite variations in our own bodies and attitudes?

For the rest, not been through LTN in a few years, but will be doing the LGW bit in a few weeks - can't possibly be as bad as Liverpool, or can it.

[Evanelpus]

Capot - Time of day?

I ask because for the last two years I have returned from Alicante and arrived at Luton on a Saturday night/Sunday morning (midnight ish). At the same time, there are flights from Dalaman, Tenerife, somewhere else and mine from Alicante.

Everyone seems to arrive at immigration at the same time and it takes an age to clear. I think something could be done to sort this out, what it is should be apparent to the staff at the airport. It can't just happen to me when I fly, it must be a regular occurence throughout the summer. It must also be similar on other days/times too.

[pwalhx]

c3b I have been twice to Sharm el Shiekh in the last year and certainly would prefer it any time to Luton.

Unfortunately the B&Q style of architecture predominates too much nowadays at our airports in the UK

[AircraftOperations]

With these large queues, there is not much that can be done if a host of aircraft all land at similar times due to some flight delays. You can't really ask pax to stay on the aircraft at the gates until the immigration queue is short enough that people won't be offended.

[MidmarMile]

This thread implies that 1st world is better than 3rd world.

Recently I flew into and out of VNX (Vilankulos, Mozambique). My departure experience was as follows:

Due it being an international flight (to JNB) we arrived at the airport 90 minutes before departure only to be told that the check-in counter wasn't open yet. They told us we could go to the "restuarant/bar" on the roof and they would call us to check-in. We duly went upstairs and had curried prawns (fresh!) and cold beers. About 30 minutes before departure we were approached at our table and told that we could go and check in. When we reached for our drinks to finish them we were immediately told that check-in would take less than 5 minutes and we could return to our table.

Actual check in took about 1 min, then you had to go behind the counter where a large policeman asked you to open your checked & hand luggage. He then proceeded to thoroughly, but quickly (less than 2 mins) search the luggage. We then closed our own luggage and it was placed on two piles (checked & hand) behind the policeman. Passport control then took a minute and true to what we were told we were back at our table within 5 minutes. 10 minutes before departure we were again called downstairs, went through a security check, picked up our hand luggage, walked to our plane and were seated 5 minutes before departure.

Now what is better 1st world vs 3rd world!

[davidjohnson6]

MidmarMile - Vilanculos is not the average Mozambican airport. You might find that departures at Maputo during a busy time rather different in atmosphere

[nivsy]

Nice story MidmarMile,

I am afraid we will never experience such delights in the UK however I guess we need to aways remember the number of flights and people around the terminal buildings.....jealous about the prawns though - McDonalds or whatever rule the roost at UK airports!

Well off topic!

Nivsy

[PAXboy]

Firstly - I agree that LTN is now a poor experience but, because it is my local, I use it in preference to STN or LGW due to further travelling times to them and they are no better, of course!

Two weeks ago I left JNB (a 2nd World country, I suggest :}) I had checked in on line for my BA back home to LHR but the system had not been able to print a BC and it told me to do so at the airport.

Approaching a bank of three auto check in machines - which served several carriers!!!! - I was greeted by two smiling members of staff who were there to help. Yes, that is HELP all pax, irrespective of carrier, provided by the airport.

The woman who took my enquiry asked me which carrier I was on and then immediately set that up on the touch screen and then asked for the flight number. As it happened, I had got the print out in my hand was ready with the locator as that was what I was expecting to put in. So she quickly changed the screen input to accept that. When she saw that I knew my way around, she left me to it - with a smile - whilst turning to another pax.

If that was not enough ... on approaching the slow bag drop area, the queue passes a staffer who checks your self issued BC and your passport and tells you if you are in the correct line, redirecting where needed.

Let's recap ... the airport provides extra members of staff to help those pax that are not sure of what to do and where to go. They have them at strategic points and they are polite and helpful. I wonder if that has any positive result in the way that pax are fed to the check in agents? I wonder if pax feel calmer and as if the airport really wants them to be there?

I won't ask LTN take note because it's already waaay too late. LTN has miles of corridors but no travelators. Some gates are a walk around three sides of a square taking 15 mins to walk - because they chose not to build a bridge across the one side of the square. All to save money and so reduce the customer experience for the times that you can save money and improve matters are VERY few.

The UK airports went down the route of using automation to save money and care not what the pax thinks (yes, we all know that they pretend to care!) and they design their terminals for the shops not the customers. Same old, same old.

[Final 3 Greens]

Flying Frisbee

Think about it carefully and you will see that I picked my words carefully.

[davidjohnson6]

PAXboy - it is a little unfair to compare Johannesburg with Luton. One is the primary airport for not just a country of 49 million people, but in practice an entire region of Africa - flights from Europe to places like Botswana are not common. As such it will tend to attract the premium traffic, and thus not only will its airline customers be prepared to pay more, but so will the passengers.

Luton on the other hand has Heathrow and Gatwick way ahead in the pecking order, with City picking up the high-end business traffic. For many years, Luton lived off holiday charters to Spain. Yes, there is a bit of private aviation but this tends to have minimal involvement with the main terminal. The people for whom the terminal was built are the great unwashed who are generally looking for value for money rather than a plush experience. This means that revenue per passenger will be lower, and Luton has to manage its affairs commensurately.

Building bridges between areas of a terminal and installing + maintaining lots of travelators doesn't come cheap !

[Flying_Frisbee]

Yesterday 21:08 Final 3 Greens
Flying Frisbee
Think about it carefully and you will see that I picked my words carefully.

Have done. :ok:
Still don't agree with your statement that that the UK is sliding from being aligned with the West to being aligned with the Warsaw Pact.
Like I said earlier, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Worlds do not refer to some kind of ranking.
From Wiki
French economist and demographer Alfred Sauvy, in an article published in the French magazine L'Observateur, August 14, 1952, coined the term Third World, referring to countries particularly in the Middle East, South Asia, Central and South America, Africa, and Oceania, that were unaligned with either the Communist Soviet bloc or the Capitalist NATO bloc during the Cold War. His usage was a reference to the Third Estate, the commoners of France who, before and during the French Revolution, opposed priests and nobles who composed the First Estate and Second Estate. Sauvy wrote, "Like the third estate, the Third World has nothing, and wants to be something," He conveyed the concept of political non-alignment with either the capitalist or communist bloc.

[Final 3 Greens]

As the Warsaw Pact no longer exists, it is obvious that the UK cannot align with it.

However, I did travel in some of the Warsaw Pact signatory countries and the way they managed their airline pax was pretty adjacent to Capot's description of his experience.

[PAXboy]

davidjohnson6 That is fair comment and I take your point. I wound two things together. Leaving out the extra staff then ...

I have used LTN as my local airport for 25 years and loved it. From my first trip through the new terminal - I hated it. I could see all the places they saved money - the lack of roads is but one of the most obvious. Having a single lane road in and a single lane out - that go through the same bottleneck? Someone did not want to invest. Yes - I've read all the arguments about who owns it and the leasing and the wot not - but no one has done the right thing by the airport. No one.

I use it because it is closer than any other but I no longer like it and consider it a chore, in the same way that STN and LGW are.

[Rusland 17]

I used Luton today, for the first time in several years, and my experience was quite different to that of the contributor who started this thread. I found it spacious, clean, efficient and (almost) a pleasure to use.

Even at 5.30am, all the shops and food outlets were open and fully-stocked, with sufficient staff to deal with the number of customers wishing to use them (which is more than I can say about the Eurostar terminal at St Pancras, for example), and everyone we dealt with was courteous and efficient. Almost every security channel was open and there were no more than half a dozen people queuing at each one - I've frequently waited longer at security at London City than we did at Luton today. On the way back this evening, all the immigration desks were manned and we were through in under 30 seconds.

Luton is clearly a low-cost airport, with some fairly basic construction and fixtures, and additional charges levied for everything from dropping-off passengers to plastic bags for your liquids to fast-track security. But it is very far indeed from being a "third world" airport.

[derekvader]

I love Luton airport, you just have to know what to expect; bring your own plastic bags, have luggage with it's own wheels so you don't need their trolleys, park down the road at the super cheap British Rail parkway car park and get the £1 door to door bus etc.

"UK BORDER FORCE" are quite capable of making us wait an hour in a stupid queue at any airport, not just Luton. I do like all the posters they've got at Luton now though claiming the delays are for our own security :}

[Rusland 17]

I love Luton airport, you just have to know what to expect; bring your own plastic bags, have luggage with it's own wheels so you don't need their trolleys, park down the road at the super cheap British Rail parkway car park and get the £1 door to door bus etc.I think loving Luton airport is taking it a little far: it's a bit like saying you love a multi-storey car park.

By the way, last week when I used it, the shuttle bus from Luton Parkway railway station to the airport was free.

[derekvader]

By the way, last week when I used it, the shuttle bus from Luton Parkway railway station to the airport was free.

I think the shuttle bus cost is supposed to be included in rail tickets, but if you've just pitched up at the car park and are not using a train, you're supposed to buy a £1 ticket from the machines (or when I was there a few weeks ago, they had humans collecting the £1s).

[Tolsti]

LTN is a 3rd world airport in a 3rd world town. If you don't believe me go and have a look, just drive around and you'll see.

[Rusland 17]

LTN is a 3rd world airport in a 3rd world town. If you don't believe me go and have a look, just drive around and you'll see.What a ridiculous remark.

Luton may be a rather ordinary little place, and no-one would ever claim it's attractive, but to call it "third world" is nonsense.

[Capetonian]

I have had cause to complain about Luton security once before but a recent incident takes the prize.

By coincidence, friends of ours, who are quiet, refined, and far from being troublemakers, were in an adjacent check in queue for the same flight (the Orange airline) as ourselves. Their check in agent rudely told them that their cabin bag looked too big and asked them to fit in into the rack. It was fractionally too big and they removed an item from it. Our check in agent did not even look at our cabin bags, so there is no consistency here, just a total lack of professionalism, or simply nastiness on the part of the other check in agent.

End of story? You'd think so, but no.

A few minutes later we were all standing chatting on the other side of the check in area, nowhere near the desks, and the (nasty) agent came over to us and demanded our names and addresses. When I asked why, she said : "Because we we have seen you talking to these people", rudely pointing at the other couple. I asked her since when was that a problem and why it gave her the right to ask for our details. "I'm not having people swapping luggage over so that they don't have to pay for it" was the answer. I told her that under no circumstances was she getting our names (particularly as one of the party was not even travelling) to which she replied that if I got 'gobby' she'd call the security. I told her to do so, even to call the police if she wished. I was not rude or abusive, but I was undoubtedly obnoxious and sarcastic, which under the circumstances was probably justified.

A security supervisor was called after we were tracked, presumably on CCTV, to another area of the airport. He refused to speak or listen to me and took the other couple aside and apologised to them for the airline's bad handling of the incident. He wished to tell them, but not in front of me, that they had not been 'picked on' because they were not 'white'.

Britain moves closer every day to being a totally repressive police state, with petty officials who have no manners and no training in dealing with the public, exceeding their powers and being backed up by the authorities. Madness. Of course, it's not unique to Luton.