Worth buying headset?

[fabbe92]

Hello!

I am currently doing my PPL and I want to become an ATP later on. I will spend the next 3 years flying Pipers at the local flying club though and the headsets are not very good. Peltor headsets wich doesn´t really cancel all the noise. I am wondering if it´s worth spending 500euros on good headsets with noise cancelation just for flying PPL. I have sensitive ears and I want to work as an ATP for 50 years so I want so save my ears but I mean, I don´t even know if I will become an atp since I haven´t even started my ATP training.

So is it worh spending that amount of money or should I whait?

[g21agoose]

I started flying in the 80's before ANC headsets were around (I think) but bought a set of DC's and was very happy- there are always people selling headsets, so buy a used pair and you don't really need noise cancelling. I have been an ATPL for longer than you have been around and I can hear fine (selectively). Good luck!

[stepwilk]

Take it from somebody who wears a hearing aid, buy the best headset you can. I started flying in the mid-1960s, when in the U. S. it was considered ridiculous to wear any kind of headphones--only the twee Brits did that, they with their white scarves and leather jackets. We flew like we drove cars,not like we were going on a dawn patrol. Which meant listening to the $5 speaker in the cabin overhead. I'm paying for it now.

[g21agoose]

Take it from somebody who wears a hearing aid, buy the best headset you can. I started flying in the mid-1960s, when in the U. S. it was considered ridiculous to wear any kind of headphones--only the twee Brits did that, they with their white scarves and leather jackets. We flew like we drove cars,not like we were going on a dawn patrol. Which meant listening to the $5 speaker in the cabin overhead. I'm paying for it now.

:D I stand corrected.

[trex450]

If you are just flying piper singles for the next year or so then a peltor 8006 will be absolutely fine for you or a senheisser 100. If you are looking down the line though at the full ATPL course seriously consider a ANR headset, personal reccomendation would be the Senheisser 450 or similar, as if nothing else the ease of conversation with your instructor will be worth it. Once you get onto twins the noise increases and there will be benefit to your ears as well. I had a few thousand hours with passive headsets before moving onto the ANR but for singles you will be fine with a passive.

[fabbe92]

I am considering the David Clark X11 ANR headset actually.

[g21agoose]

The best advice is somewhere here- if you can afford it go for an ANC headset- as I have said, though, I, and many other pilots grew up with 'normal' headsets- their ear protection capabilities are just as good- IMHO

[Rainboe]

Nothing 'cuts out the noise' completely. You don't want that. You need to hear what is going on. I learnt to fly 42 years ago. I am still working full time and flat out as a professional airline jet pilot. ANR only became available a few years ago for me. I have survived on normal, cheap headsets. My philosophy is:
-ANR is OK, nice to have, but not the be all and end all of headsets
-If you have to sacrifice flying to pay for it- it's just not worth it
-People will always recommend you get Bose at whatever price and sacrifice! Utter nonsense.
-There is absolutely nothing wrong with ordinary headsets. 18,000 hours using them showed that.
-Until you become a far more regular flier than a hundred or so hours a year, ANR is just not worth it.

We have a SEP. We shared the cost of equipping it with 2 Lightspeed Zulus, the absolute top dog. I am ambivalent towards them and their cost (£1300 the pair). They are very large, heavy and sweaty-hot. They also make me feel detached. Quiet, but not completely. I would far rather have had a couple of standard headsets for the few hours I fly a piston a month rather than that absurd expense, albeit shared. There's a lot of rubbish pumped out about ANR- it is quieter, but probably not as much as you think.

Whatever you do, don't be taken up with 'ANR is the only way to go!'. DON'T sacrifice ANY flying to buy them. Your flying is far more important than saving a few decibels. I don't actually know any pilots in all these years that lost their licenses due to 'hearing problems'. Don't swallow all that daft propaganda. If money is tight, be sane. And as for playing MP3 music in your headset? Unless you are flying across the Australian bush for hours and hours, you should be shot! Bluetooth, MP3....waste of money!

[fabbe92]

Actuall I have sensitive ears. I have a little ringing on my right ear. It´s nothing because I still have 100% hearing but I don´t want to risk making it worse and my ears and head do get a little bit soar after a 1 hour flight with the standard headsets.My point is, why risk your dream just to save som money.

But what is the deal with the David Clark headset? Isn´t that ANR or ANC? What is the difference really?

[Carrier]

Hearing damage is cumulative. It cannot be cured. Get the best headset you can afford from day one. I use this: Telex - Aviation Headsets (http://www.telex.com/Aircraft/Product.aspx?MarketID=2&CategoryID=14&ProductID=10) If you cannot afford one now then get the best you can afford at this stage. Later it can serve as a reserve when you can afford the best.

[Torquatus]

I would generally second what Carrier and Rainboe are saying. While you're training in SEP you don't need better hearing protection than you get from a decent set of David Clark passives, like the 13.4s or the 10-30s for example. Where it becomes nicer to have the ANR sets like the Bose is when you either graduate to noiser aircraft such as twins where you need better noise reduction or if you're flying in a single all day every day, for example if instructing, where it allegedly reduces fatigue noticably.

As another note, I don't actually recommend the DC ANR set (the X-11) , it doesn't seem sturdy enough, the clamping around the head is not even enough, and anecdotally it doesn't cut as much noise as the Bose. This is from a happy DC H10-30 user. See if you can test fly one first, and check both active (ANR on) and passive (ANR off) performance. There are plenty of ANR headsets which don't work well at all when the batteries die.

My opinion: Get the best and most comfortable headset you can afford now. When you get that first job flying all day, then it is time to hit the bank up for a personal loan for the expensive ANR set. Second-hand DC H10-30s are really cheap and easy to get, then you just buy new gel-seals and they're as good as new.

[fabbe92]

Can anyone reccomend the absolutley best headset out there under 700 dollars? It must not cost more than that and I am looking for the headset wich gives me the best hearing protection and that is the most comfortable bearing in mind that I have sensitive ears and that I will fly single piston for the moment but want´s to use it later on when I move up to the twin engines.

Thank you so much for all the help and tips guys!

[Torquatus]

Fabbe, I really think you need to go to a shop and try a bunch on to see what is most comfortable. When you've narrowed it down, see if you can borrow representative samples from somewhere and take them flying to see if they perform OK.

If you're looking for absolutely the best noise reduction, try the Telex Stratus 50D. Allegedly it has a 50db noise reduction, and I haven't seen any other manufacturer claim anywhere near that. For reference, my DCs are claimed to reduce ambient noise by 24db. A quick search shows the Stratus 50D is available for $719 from an online retailer (you could probably find a better price, I just picked the third retailer link from the Telex site). I can't say if they're comfortable, as I have never found a set to try out, but they are impressive on specification.

[non iron]

The other side of the coin is hygiene and fatigue. My incidence of coughs and snuffles dropped off noticeably with my own headset, and that will obviously influence your fitness to fly. Reduce noise induced fatigue and again the benefits are obvious.
Checkout Ebay - l did - and go for the best you can afford, it will be money well spent.
A tad too late for me alas, as my m.e. says during the aural " yea, ok, but you`d never be issued with an initial class 1 now you know, with top and bottom end hearing shot"

You know it makes sense.

ps. an added benefit is avoiding the previous guys indian meal residue on the mic, which l assure you can be quite devastating at 0530.

[fabbe92]

Well the thing is that I don´t have the possibility to try any headsets as I can only buy from the web since I don´t have any shop in the vecinity. The peltors are very uncomfortable for me. So I should probably go for the ones with the best reviews.

[Torquatus]

Ah, that would make it difficult!

If you're set on ANR, the only ones I can comment on are the Bose, which are as good as everyone says and completely unaffordable for me, and the DC X11s, which I found uncomfortable just to try wearing in the shop, and seemed fragile compared to the H10-30 that I ended up with.

Another alternative may be to buy a cheap set of DCs or similar off eBay and then get an ANR kit, but you'd probably need to be confident with a soldering iron for that. I've heard some people swear by this, and others say it is pointless. A google search for "ANR kit" brings up a few places to start looking if this is the way you want to go.

[fernytickles]

If you can only buy off the internet, go to a reputable company that has a good return policy and make use of that if you need to.

I have 3 Sennheiser headsets, one of which is ANR. All three are good headsets.

You can save money to buy new headsets, you can save money to fly, but no matter how much you save, you will never save enough money to buy new hearing, so take care of what you've got. The same goes for your eyesight.

[fabbe92]

Okay. So I have looked at the web for Bose and Telex Stratus and it´s really 50/50. Some people like bose and some like Telex so I can´t decide wich one is the best. I have read things like, if you ask any proffesional pilot they will say that Bose is the best in the world.

So the thing is. I want a comfortable headset and that isn´t very heavy like the Telex. But I have really sensitive ears and I have som ringing in one ear. Nothing serious but I wan´t to keep it that way.

So I am looking at the heaset that is the absolutley best for your ears. Wich is the safest headset for keeping the hearing, in the longterm?

This is between Telex Stratus 50x and the Bose competitor, no other headsets.

Thanks!

[fabbe92]

So I have given up on the Bose headsets. I have now buyed the Telex 50 headset. It seems good but it´s not comfortable. After 30 minutes I allready experienced a headake due to the weight and tight fit.

So now it stands between the Telex and Senheiser. Should I stay with Telex and sacrifice the comfort for the hearing protection? Is senheiser more comfortable than Telex and how good is the hearing protection compared to Telex?

Because if the Hearing protection (that i need) is just as good as Telex but the comfort is better, I will send them back and go for senheiser. In that case, wich senheiser model should I go for in order to get the best comfort and protection for piston aircrafts?

Thanks!

[Retire2015]

Headset selection is a highly personal decision. Each individual is going to have different preferences. Each head is a different size.

There is no right or wrong. You will go through numerous headsets if you fly for a long time.

Get one, use it and start leaning for yourself.

At this stage of your career, it is not critical. Exposure is a result of noise level compressed into a certain time frame. I believe you are talking about 40 hours over a few months. When you fly 40 hours in a 10 day period, it becomes significant.

R

[fabbe92]

Okay I see. For the comming 2 years I will fly something like 30 hours a year. After that I will move to a commercial flight school and do my time building, CPL, ME, IR etc so in two years I will begin to fly something like 5 days a week.

So I should go for comfort and get the sennheisers then since the Telex 50 are uncomfortable bearing in mind that I have sensitive ears and suffer from a small ringing in my right erar?

[Torquatus]

If you find the Telex uncomfortable, then yes - get the Sennheisers!

See if the Telex can be adjusted to reduce the clamping force. I don't know how it works, but they go on and on about their "comfort cam" system - has adjusting this helped at all?

With regard to the weight, have you tried wearing a baseball cap or a woolen beanie (or skullie or whatever they are called around your parts)? It sounds silly, and can look silly, but I find it helps distribute the weight so it is not pressing down on just one or two parts of your head. Try it out. And, of course, make sure the top of your head is taking the weight, and the headset is not just being held up by the clamping force.

I hope you can find something that works for you!

[Retire2015]

The Telex 50 headset is a popular choice for the 450 Knot TAS Boeing aircraft.

You do not need ANR in an 80 to 100 Knot TAS aircraft.

I believe you want to hear the radios and your instructor. You may want to minimize the engine exhaust and prop-wash noise.

A basic set that comes with most GA aircraft should do the job. Visit a GA avionics shop, they may have a basic set they will give you.

Typically rich guys will buy a Bose X to replace the original equipment thus freeing up basic sets for students.

R

[fabbe92]

I tryed out the Lightspeed Zulus today in a Piper PA28. With the ANR on they were very good but in mid flight I tryed turning of the ANR and they became extremly noizy. Much more than the normal passive Peltors that we have inn the flying club. Is it supposed to be like this or what?

With the ANR on I feel very comfortable but is it possible, I´m damaging my hearing without noticing it?

Thanks!

[Torquatus]

Well, if it is comfortable with the ANR on then you're not suffering hearing damage (your ears don't care if the sound is damped by active electronics or padding), but you've hit on the problem - what happens when the batteries die? I guess carry a spare set and learn how to change them quickly is the go.

I'd expect that it is normal for an ANR headset like the Zulu or Bose to be noisier than a passive set without the ANR, I believe these manufacturers sacrifice passive damping in favour of making the headset lighter and more comfortable (e.g. less clamping force).

Another defence you could use is to wear foam earplugs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earplug#.27Basic.27_type_plugs) (you can get them from the pharmacists or an occupational safety store, the kind that sells steel-toe boot and first-aid kits). You'll need to turn up the radio volume, but these will add to the protective effect you're getting from the headset and if the ANR fails you'll still have adequate protection.

[fabbe92]

So lets say I fly wit these for 5 years and the hearing won't be affected?

[Torquatus]

Just had a look at the specs, and yes it seems that the Zulu will offer you greater protection than my passive David Clarks (when the ANR is running, at least). So I'd say yes, you could fly with these for five years and not damage your hearing - provided you have a spare set of batteries with you to make sure the ANR doesn't stop! Your ears can't tell the difference between passive damping and active electronic damping - the sound waves that reach the ear have less energy after damping (in both cases), and too much sound energy is what causes the damage.

If you're interested, here's (http://www.lightspeedaviation.com/public/lsa/file/ZuluUG_online.pdf) a link to the Zulu user manual from Lightspeed's website.

And regarding my previous post, I wear foam earplugs underneath the headset (I didn't make that clear).

[trex450]

Sennheisers are very good and do as they advertise, unlike Bose which despite the cost simply market themselves as the top of the range but forget to give any facts and figures. Go ANR if you can afford although I found little difference between active and passive in a 172. The biggest benefit with ANR is that you have less noise on the intercom and radios, to highlight this simply try the radios with ANR on and off and change the volume settings accordingly, you will be surprised how much you turn the radios down when the ANR is on. If you are training then this simply allows you to hear your instructor better which is usually a good thing. You could always consider peltor 8006's as an excellent passive option as well. The only down side that I have heard of with Sennheisers was from a friend with a big head, the headband gave out at the hinge which is much less sturdy than the peltors but was fixable by swapping the headband with an old peltor that he had.