Is It Time To Make This Forum A Closed One??

[The Gorilla]

I am the only one who thinks that this forum has gone downhill rapidly over the last few months?? I am well aware that a large proportion of the posters are not "Real Military Aircrew" I discussed this forum with a number of genuine and local Ppruners today. The idea has been mooted that we should maybe apply to the powers that be here on Pprune and request that the forum be closed to all who are not professional military aircrew. There are many posters here who pretend to be that which they are clearly not.

I appreciate that a lot of useless whinging goes on here, but we also get a lot of good info about whats going on in the wider Royal Admin Farce. The VC10 court martial thread is one such example.

What does every one else think?? :confused:

[Tiger_mate]

I would second your proposal for a closed Forum, but have reservations about who would "Police" it.

The appeal of the forums is that free speach is available without watching your back. I know of a JR photo int who was invited to blunt city for a career interview, although he was trying to sell the members of JARIC UK to the arabs at the time!

If someone here got a rodding from the system about a post they had written, the whole forum would descent into b0110cks.

That said, you have a fair point about inputs from non mil readers without our unique sense of humour.

Wonder if OBL is reading the latest here.

Regards

TM
Mk1 Genuine military aviator, noise making for the use of.

[BEagle]

NO!! IT MUST NOT BE A CLOSED FORUM!! Sorry about the shouting, but if it did become closed, users might be restricted and, ipso facto, might be viewed as a subversive group by those who would dearly like to strangle this forum. It is effectively self-policing and we should leave it as it is, in my opinion.

[FJJP]

It must stay an open forum. As for policing, Danny is first class. On a couple of occasions, I have e-mailed him to warn that a particular subject was getting close to a security breech, whereupon he immediately deleted the subject. That's all we need.

[Low and Slow]

My pure motivation for reading this forum is the banter and humour - which I miss - and the input of the "real" old-style aircrew - whom I grew up with.
I'm not ex-military aircrew. I am ex-military, but so what?
I've got no problem with you closing this forum to me- except it'll be crap.
There are a lot of very smart people out here - talk to us.

[Brian Dixon]

Where would a closed forum leave those of us, who are not aircrew, yet are fighting for the reputations of two of your deceased colleagues?

I am proud to have served my country for 12 years.
I am DAMN proud about fighting for two of my friends.

PPRuNe has been invaluable in the campaign for justice for Jon Tapper and Rick Cook. Would you deny them that opportunity?

No offence intended by this post - just a point made.

Brian
"Justice has no expiry date" - John Cook

[Art Field]

For those of us ex military aircrew and my impression is that there are many of us, this forum gives us some contact with the present day service, warts and all. It may be arrogant to say that we can sometimes contribute valuable opinions and remind our successors that the wheel was round even then. It also seems to me that contributions from those without the appropriate background sticks out like the proverbial and can easily be ignored. Please don't exclude us, we would miss you greatly and I think you would miss our efforts too

[pana]

Open forum, of course!!! How would you imagine me to login here? With RAF ID, or what? :D Don't say that you don't want to hear some different opinions! It would be boring isn't it?
Superseagull pilot ;)

[OldBonaMate]

I'll drink to that, Art Field. .... when I get home tonight.

OBM : ;)

[ 24 September 2001: Message edited by: OldBonaMate ]

[Didntdoit]

Well,

I've been vilified on this site with the best of them by the best of them and I've never prentented to be who I'm not, but it would be very easy to do so.

Goes back to the football team analogy. One player may score, but he can only do it if everyone else plays a part.

I thought we were one team. Some primates clearly beg to differ.

[the funky munky]

Yes, I admit that I am not "Real Military Aircrew" but I am a member of the MOD and so read this and other forums with professional interest.
Should this be a closed forum is a question that only Pprunes moderators can and should answer. BEagles comments make a great deal of sense.
I have only started to add my comments recently after reading this forum and others for many months.
I have a great deal of respect for you Military Aviator fellas.
I will only respond to postings that I feel strongly about or where appropriate can make light of. I do not believe in wasting other peoples time.

[64av8or]

Keep it open and if I'm not mistaken this a forum for all military Aircrew not just the RAF!

[Trash 'n' Navs]

64av8or Well said. I thought the forum was open to all military aicrew and not just the chaps of the Royal Air Farce. :D

If the chaps want to have their cup o' tea and spotted dick or crumpet whilst complaining about the poor showing of the English cricket team, then perhaps they need their own forum?

[ 25 September 2001: Message edited by: Trash 'N' Navs ]

[Mach the Knife]

Keep the forum open, we can police it ourselves by not responding to some of the bollox posted. The tossers will soon get bored and sod off elsewhere if they don't get the reaction they want.

[15/15 flex]

England cricket team......poor showing? I must have been away a while.....no, hang on, maybe not....Pimms anyone? :p


Keep this thread for serious military topics only. :D

[Martel]

If we are going to keep it open to all lets have a BIT of pride shall we. Royal Admin Farce? That kind of crap is best kept in house thanks big chimpy fellah.
Military Aviator, Royal Air Force. Lest we forget...........

[Wholigan]

Definitely, absolutely, positively OPEN. Apart from the nonsense of having to prove entitlement by producing service number or some such thing, we have a great number of non-military supporters and friends who love to come in and see what we are doing. Moreover, they frequently have some very good points to make and some searching questions to ask. Furthermore, those who talk bollox in here are not limited to the non-military!!! It's good, don't change it, we can moderate ourselves by ignoring or giving idiots and numpties a hard time.

[henry crun]

I would be disappointed if it were to be a closed forum.

For many of us ex's it is about the only link we have with what is going on in the service.

[The Nr Fairy]

Absolutely NOT - outside of JB, some of the funniest / most farcical threads appear here.

[Surditas]

Keep it an open forum. Folks in the outside world are interested in what we do, plus those that have left the services like to keep in touch.
Oh, and don't forget it is for military aircrew, not just RAF. That way we get to talk about the Wallabies, Oz cricket team, the weather etc... (all in a military context, of course.) :D

[1.3VStall]

No, please don't make it closed; I couldn't bear having to subscribe to the "RAF News" to keep in touch with what's going on inside!

[A and C]

Keep it open it is your strongest link with aviation outside the military and the best hope that you will not see a repeat of the chinook white wash.

keeping it open will also supply balance that is also hard to come by in a closed forum.

And finaly mach the knife would have to be rude to the people he worked with if i could not get into this forum.

[Gainesy]

Keep it open.

[Mach the Knife]

I am rude to the people I work with if they are behaving like arses

[ENG]

This site must be kept open. It's the only place to get a true picture on what's going on.
I suggest 'Grollia' open his own web page in a years time perhaps called 'PTRuNe'

[The Gorilla]

WELL...
I Certainly sparked off a strong response and an overwhelming keep it open vote. Thank you all for taking part.

I will say that 2 pages of replies in less than 24 hours proves that many people are still only lurking out there, not so many of you actually post any more. Any particular reason for this??

I fully support free speech but recently I have noticed deliberate attempts to discredit posters and threads with moronic comments. Perhaps it's a PMC/MOD attempt to discourage us from posting our grievances in public. Who knows???

Whatever is going on, I am not prepared to contribute in an atmosphere of hate and partial flaming. It does our cause no good whatsoever and you only have to visit the usenet newsgroups elsewhere to see the destructive outcome!!

Point I am making is that, IMHO this forum, like the Flight Engineer branch in the RAF, is going "to wither on the vine" unless something changes.
:(

[BARABUS]

I reckon you RAF chaps are getting a bit thin skinned. You're not a Jag mate are you Gorilla? :confused:

[Gainesy]

I have noticed its been a bit quieter recently on here but thought that perhaps a lot of the "regulars" are away on Ex. Saif Whatsit and other dets.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

This subject of Privatising the Mil forum has been aired before. Along with a closed UAS forum.

The former is a non-starter and the latter a possibility if someone can be found willing to Moderate/Administer it.

WWW

[jockspice]

The forum must remain open, for variety is the spice of life. As many have all ready said, this is for all mil aircrew and not just the crabs as a few individuals may think. The ex-mil/civvie input can sometimes offer a fresh perspective on things that we mil people, set in our ways, perhaps may not see. :)

As for why some may not post as much - It is better to remain quiet and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. :D

Off to SSII on Friday - hoo-bloody-rah! :p

[Legalapproach]

"The idea has been mooted that we should maybe apply to the powers that be here on Pprune and request that the forum be closed to all who are not professional military aircrew."

Mmmm...the 'professional' bit rules out me and most of the guys I used to fly with. You'd be left with a very small forum.

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/sarboy.gif

[exrotarybooty]

I guess my user-name gives away where I fit in to the forum, although I am ex-RAF as well!I would greatly miss this opportunity to re-live the humour etc of service life, and keep up to date with current happenings that are causing our successors grief! Please keep it open, if only to save my sanity at the end of a 'civilian' day ;)

[Capt Widebody]

I'm on the open bandwaggon, too Gorilla, though I do see the frustrations of sometimes not knowing who is who. It would be nice to know that no-one is trying to just provoke a response from the impetuous, or delicate information from the less wary.

However, on balance, closing it would kill it. As for regular ppruners not posting so much, this one (albeit with a slightly changed name with an abbreviated "rank" due to computer glitches!) has just been bloody busy (at work and on leave :D ). I expect this may be the case of many such "lurkers"!

[nigeriley]

This must remain OPEN to have any value at all .... and a passing thought .... Military Aircrew includes all colour uniforms and all brevet holders, both current and retired, not just RAF Drivers, Airframe, Male, :)

[ 26 September 2001: Message edited by: F700 ]

[Ex F111]

Agree that the 'banter' has been a tad dull lately.

Does the lack of interesting topics mean that retention has been achieved, all of out kit works, or that no pay cases are on the cards, or have their airships actually won the war against us.

Anyone got some spice??

[MaxAOB]

Slightly dull is not the word, apart from the accreditation blurb not much is discussed. Probably quite right too. Besides we were all too busy sorting out our Airline life b4 11/09/01 NOw we are all off to Swift Sword 2 and don't have Inet access!
May as well bin it and include it in the other forums!

Besides we have ModWeb!!!!!!


:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

[Strobin' Purple]

Open, Fishheads an' all!

[Mmmmnice]

Certainly keep it open, but have a little entrance exam - first a spelling test(no word longer than 4 letters), than a check of access to an online PC during working hours and finally a medical to ensure absence of farmer giles caused by spending far too much time perched on an ammo box(woops thats torn it Ginger!)Meanwhile keep weaving the threads pip pip baaaaaaah

[Herod]

The whole idea is to have an open forum. If the RAF want a closed one, let them set up their own. It's been said that it is for all military aircrew. That's not just the Army and Navy, its also the USAF, Luftwaffe and any other interested parties. How's about we close all the flight-deck forums to all but those with a valid professional civilian licence. Stand-by for the flack from the light-blue side!!

[Paddington*]

As said earlier 'we have a great number of non-military supporters and friends who love to come in and see what we are doing.' Yep, and to catch a bit of the banter. :D

[Bervie]

Open definately. A closed forum would lose a lot of relevant comments from ex-mil and civilian pilots alike. Its nice to get a broad band of views (relvant ones) and hearing it from both sides of the wire is beneficial to everyone. It would all get very one sided otherwise i think.

[Tonkenna]

It has got to stay open. Perhaps we could run an open one and a closed one (like the airlines and maybe just for UK Mil and those from overseas could perhaps have there own to), though I doubt they would get much use. A UAS one would be good though WWW, I have emailed you about that.

Tonks

[Vortex_Generator]

As military groundcrew with a current PPL I find this forum often entertaining and sometimes informative. Keep it open.

[Sven Sixtoo]

Closed forums (fori??) Excluding who?? And to what purpose? There have been quite a few wannabees who have come through and been advised or redirected. Participation by those outside the UK has been thin, and outside the white Commonwealth very thin. Where is the USAF/USN/USMC? You must be there and the forces of the greatest democracy on earth must have something to contribute to an open discussion??

Keep it open, encourage expansion of opinion. We are a global force. We can spread global views. We can argue global views. Someday we may be friends. More members , more nations, more words, less bullets, please.

[TimC]

Firstly, sorry for some of the crap I spout on this forum :D.

Secondly, please keep it open as some of the stuff posted on here (eg "I wish I hadn't said that") is some of the funniest stuff I have ever read.

Thirdly, surely making it a closed forum would require some sort of ID validation to register, therefore making it easier for the powers that be to find out who you are?

And finally, this forum is a place where wannabe military aviators like myself can find out about service life, warts n all.

Keep it open please :).

[Tir renrie]

Please keep this forum open, if only for topics such as Chinook hitting back
/still hitting back.

Its also an excellent way for ex forces personnel to stay in touch with issue and opinions within the forces, and to see how life is changing since taking the giant leap into the unknown.

Some people (maybe myself included? if so i apologise) do write utter drivel, but id rather have the ability to filter out crap then not have anything to filter at all.

[Charlie Luncher]

Gorilla

Old fella is the flying suit taking on an air of urine? Is the music too loud? Are detachments not as good as they used to be? Do those damn loadies keep putting tomatoes in your rations knowing you cant start them? :rolleyes:

Come to the kipper fleet we will make you feel wanted and young again, we even have the odd young siggie to start your tomatoes!

Keep the forum open warts/trumpets/banter an all - but must we included the ones who smell of fish? :eek: :rolleyes:

[Mad Pax]

Please keep it open ! Please let us sad beggars who failed the medical (and really, genuinely did want in :( ) still follow what's happening, the banter and the unique sense of humour (!)
Noting an earlier comment though, there are some of us who don't pretend to be mil aircrew, and this is clear from the nature of our posts; I for one, am a 'spacey' destructor and proud of it. I'm also a RAF brat, and particularly proud of that and those who do the job and consider myself lucky to be related/know some of them.

(dives back into his cage, emotionally depleted)

[ 29 September 2001: Message edited by: Mad Pax ]

[DX Wombat]

Please keep it open. I for one would not have known where to find the answers to some of my questions if it had not been for the help I have received here. :)

[Helmut Visorcover]

Bloody typical! Crab FJ's trying to be elitist again! (JOKE!)

Although I agree to not letting Gazelle pilots in. They should post under the 'wannabee's' section. (BANTER!)

Open, most def.

It has been a bit 'dry' of late.
Solution: It's what WE make it. :p

[Frank Spenny]

As someone who was in the forces (sorry pilots, back seater), and is now out, this forum keeps me in line with what is going on, what isn't and what should be. A good friend was killed recently, and aside from heresay, this forum filled me in (and filled me up) with respects, tributes and good will to his family, friends and colleagues. Should this forum go 'closed', this sort of thing will disappear totally - I realise I am now out of the 'close knit group' and if you should wish to get rid of 'lurkers' like me then fair enough, but the old adage was that if you can't take the RAF then you shouldn't have taken the joke...
There are a lot of people who enjoy this forum, those of you in the know can surely spot the w$£nkers, and ignore their posts, and keep laughing at their obtuse comments... They obviously read this forum because not only is it by far the funniest on the whole site, it also comes up with the latest gen, the best tributes (which journos obviously use and helps with their column inches (ooer))
Don't make it private, you'll lose the lurkers (who occasionally write something) the journos (who are begging their editor to fix them up with a flight with the forces for their page 17 editorial) and those who just want to read about her majesties services (and believe in what they do)
Comment are just that, If you don't want to read them, then don't, but don't feel that this forum should be made private because of a couple of attacking comments from outsiders. Surely those of you still 'in' can spot them - So just ignore them, and keep this the best forum on pprune :D

[Mowgli]

Keep it open, for all the reasons given, plus you get some questions that can only be answered by us ex's, like "WHO'S RECRUITING" etc. Also, you need the support of the public, and the likes of Jackonicko who is a knowledgable on side journalist, can get the true facts where they're needed.

If you become too isolationalist, you run the risk of one day asking the question: "Why don't the public/politicians understand why we need to ........"

[You Aint Seen Me. Roit!]

Gorilla

Pompous or what? I can't believe that anyone would even suggest it. Why? For what end?

Are you suggesting that all the drivel that gets posted on this forum is written by people who have nothing or have never had anything to do with the military?

Umm, lets have a look at that.

"Has saluting had its day"

Well thats a bloody relevant and interesting post to put on a military aviation forum isn't it? Do you reckon that was posted by a civvy?

If you want a private crab forum then you crack on, but I would suggest that the rest of us will stay here.

As for the lack of decent posts lately, maybe thats because this forum has degenerated into a RAF whining site. There are others on here who remember, not so long ago, when you could gleen useful information from the site and have a laugh with some friendly banter at the same time.

I'm not a Crab hater, I'm really not, but some of the rubbish that appears here now from some people does not inspire me to log on at all.

I agree with the geezer who said that Gazelle pilots should be barred though!

[Seak1ng]

Keep the forum open and available to all.
Except VC10 and Tristar Cabin Crews. Have seen some posts from them from time to time claiming that they are Aircrew.... :mad: I am sure that there is an area for them somewhere else.. :D

[SACSmith]

I understand where you're coming from, but for us lesser beings (non-aircrew), this forum provides us with a voice, and I know that senior officers in their ivory towers view this web-site with interest. It's just a shame that we have to resort to anonimity in order to try & make the RAF better for everyone. The RAF Presentation Team is a good idea, but even then, people can't really say what they think, for fear of repercussions on their careers.

[fobotcso]

Smitty, good man for reading back to long defunct threads as you start your PPRuNe career! And no harm done in bringing this back to the top.

The answer will always be the same. Open is best for this Forum on this Bulletin Board but there may be a case for the Forum to be moderated. PPRuNe Dispatcher does an excellent job in keeping it clean and avoiding duplicate threads. He cannot be described as a Moderator, however.

Way back, Beagle said we (you) do a good job of self-moderation; I would disagree since I see no sign of it and there are times I cringe with embarrassment at the peurile, seditious, sexist views (embodied in some User Names) that are put about. The journalist, Jacko, makes no secret of his wish to fish for information to help him do his job. But the views he expressed when he sabotaged the Military Forum's condolence thread after 11 Sep 2001 finished him forever as a useful contributor to the discussions here. No, there can be no self-moderation where there is no attribution.

I do believe that you serving chap(esse)s of all British Military aviators should have a private (closed) Forum somewhere else where you could discuss, anonymously, Service matters in a way that would open the eyes of the Powers-That-Be. But you could never influence Government Defence Policy and therefore, Military Procedures that way. That's a job for you and your Member of Parliament.

Such a Forum would be difficult, but not impossible to set up. There must be one amongst you who could earn a Defence ex-Gratia Payment for designing such a system? Worth a few thousand quid, I would think. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[Gen. Bombdabastards]

Keep it open, If thier airships do have a man to read this forum for them, then they should know how we really feel.

I also agree with BD, it's done so much for justice, making it a closed forum would limit the amount that it could be used in the future.

So what if a few sad to***rs try and bait us, it shows them for what they really are.

[ 17 February 2002: Message edited by: Gen. Bombdabastards ]</p>

[TheWelshOne]

Gorilla

Hey, maybe you want to talk in private on how you're going to spend your 80k package. I understand totally that you do not want to alienate us too much. Maybe you should go further and propose that we annex all the Messes, the flyers in one part and the rest can go in the Nissan hut outside.

Ouch - I'll go straight to hell for that one!

[joyride]

Please keep it open, from another ex-mil pilot who enjoys the top quality banter..

[Dan Winterland]

And another.

[XM147]

... and another

[STANDTO]

There are some of us who are to thick to fly military jets, but have a huge interest in whats happening in a service we were once involved in. Remember, if you had to fix it yourself or protect your own airfield, you wouldn't be flying now.

The possible security breaches that sometimes arise are invariably posted by persons who know no better, and the simplest way to prevent them is to ignore.

Additionally, think of the number of potential OASC candidates who have been give a warts and all insight into life in a grow bag.

Keep it open. Please

[SACSmith]

Thanks for your encouragement fobotsco. I did think about setting up a web-site for ranks in the RAF to have a good moan anonymously, but I just know that some sneaky-beaky computer security section would hunt me down like a dog, then I'd be booted out for bringing the Service into disrepute, or some other QR. I think I'll stick to pprune thought, it's very entertaining!! :)

[Chimbu chuckles]

Nahh don't close it down! When things are too depressing on Dunnunder I come here for a laugh :)

Chuckles.

[SPIT]

For persons who want this forum Closed Down to gen use the word ELITISM comes to mind.. .PLEASE DO NOT RESTRICT IT FOR A FEW.. . <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[Jackonicko]

Fobotsco,

Since you've chosen to personalise this and throw around unfounded accusations, allow me to defend myself.

What you called 'sabotaging' the 11/9 thread was merely an attempt to alert all to the root causes of US unpopularity (which made the WTC outrage possible) and to highlight the suffering of the Palestinians - then being rocketed by IDF helicopter gunships (plus ça change, eh?). Moreover, a small minority of serving aircrew types expressed similar views on that and other threads. I don't doubt your sincerity in believeing that Israel is a model democracy defending itself with honour against a nasty terrorist threat who have no right on their side, but I'd hope you'd acknowledge that such a position is just as controversial as mine.

You also accuse me of 'fishing', which is inaccurate. I do use PPR to help keep my finger on the pulse, but it seldom alerts me to a story, and I never use anything from here that I can't confirm through other sources.

I may be an intemperate, foul mouthed and occasionally belligerant contributor, but some see some of my posts as entertaining, and even useful, and many are generous enough to think that I (as a generally sympathetic pro Defence journo, current PPL and ex-UAS bod) have as much right to post and read here as you do, as a retired ex RAF chap. And anyone who doesn't think I'm a useful contributor doesn't have to read it, though the less blinkered would do so and THEN decide that I'm a to$$er!

[solotk]

Please don't close it down

When I was 18, I made the worst decision of my life at OASC, when the board informed me, that as a result of my medical, I couldn't fly FJ's (First and only choice). They gave me time to think about it, I threw all my toys out of my pram, and didn't join the mighty blue. I've regretted it ever since.

It's good to keep up with what's going on, and to read comments from people, that I may well have ended up serving with. Also, as others have pointed out, there are a fair selection of wannabees interested in a GD (Air) career, and the comments and information here, do give them a better insight into life at the sharp end.On that point, it pains me to see people biting so readily on Admin G's posts. He did it, to get a rise out of aircrew,and to try and highlight the them and us attitude and it worked.Word of advice AG, try that with an Army audience, you will lose teeth, I guarantee it.

As regards "Pride" I think the TV ADS thread, was a good example of how Military and Non-Military people felt.

My own thread "Bring him home" regarding the Spitfire and Pilot in a lake in Austria, got more reaction on this board, then anywhere else I posted it, including the "Vintage forum" where it appeared, people would rather talk about the glorious days of the "Imperial Airpower Club" then recovering the body of a PFJ that made the sacrifice.

Yes, I am a wingless brown job mate. I have a PPL, and a few hours, and in my past , some fast jet time,with a foreign air force I was buying FJ's from, for american customers, so at least, I have had a taste of what I missed.

I have flown with the USAF and RAF Albert fleets, indulged out of Brize, been picked up from some hillside in dead of night by Navy and RAF helicopter crews, and admired their work, and was always left with the thought...."British Forces, nothing finer"

Sorry for the rambling, not had my coffee yet.......

Tony

[FJJP]

This site must remain open to all. Many who are not Service/Ex-Service gain much of an insight into life inside - good and bad. It is a source of valuable comment to wannabes, and keeps those long out in touch with the feelings of those still in.

With regard to security, there are enough of us who are quick enough to mail Danny to warn him of potential breaches/danger subjects. Danny is very good at listening to those in the know and will, without hesitation, kill a thread after he has been notified.

Jacko, ignore the protagonists - keep at it. I do not believe you would cr*p all over those of us who post.

SACSmith. Think long and hard about getting a monk on and throwing in the towel. Yes, there is much not right out there, but there is a lot of good people, too. Have you thought about having a heart-to-heart with your chief or deputy chief clerk? Many of us throughout the years (36 in my case) have thought that someone has had a down on us, only to find that we have mis-read the situation.

In short, this forum is invaluable to those of us who wish to comment. One of the greatest strengths of a democratic society is that we can hold our own views, however unpalatable they may be to others.

Just don’t get personal.

Good session at the pub this lunchtime, but the sentiments are from the heart.

[The Gorilla]

Well Well Well!!!!!

Just when I thought that I'd had my 15 minutes of fame. Perhaps though with t@s*ers like the Admin Guru around, it's time to consider my original suggestion again, yes?? :)

As for my £80K retention package, I had a good laugh there. I am a Spec Aircrew Plastic Sergeant,(on reserved rights!!) I am therefore NOT considered to be Professional Aircrew, by my lords and masters. So I wont be receiving any future bonuses, (other than the x2 £5K payments for 01 and 02. How they can justify paying me £10K to stay in until Apr 03 and then say there isn't a problem, I frankly don't know!!

What I DO know is that I can do far more damage by being a disgruntled non-professional. No more good will!! Don't get mad - get even!! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[ 17 February 2002: Message edited by: The Gorilla ]

[ 17 February 2002: Message edited by: The Gorilla ]</p>

[mutleyfour]

Ooh Gorilla, you are a bitter person,

Close this forum and I really can't see anyone using it apart from you maybe to rant and rave about a service which has essentially given you a secure and well paid job.

I for one don't really care about FRI as I enjoy being a Military Aviator!!!!

Perhaps you cannot see the light for the urm mist! <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> :)

[fantom]

I wanna know what is going on too....gave me the chance to sign the petition,not that I changed the world thereby,but it did make me feel really good.. .4233106 <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

[Flatus Veteranus]

Yes, Yes! For Gawd's sake close the bloody thing down. Then I might be able to get the old sod out of his den and doing some of the many jobs that await his attention!

Mrs F V <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

[TheWelshOne]

Hey the Gorilla is awake again - quick, someone throw him a banana - Wh Wh Wh

[jayteeto]

Keep it open

[SACSmith]

Thanks for your advice FJJP, I guess I would just like to have a magic wand and make things better, so everyone is happy. Not asking too much! :)

[divingduck]

keep it open.. .I agree with Chimbu Chuckles...great fun reading you guys wailing at each other..especially that guru the admin guy...(everyone in the ME who reads this is SURE he is a FJ guy)

[PPRuNe Dispatcher]

There is no way we could make this a closed forum, for the simple reason there is no reasonable way of verifying if someone is actually an active military pilot. The RAF *might* tell us but what about the Israeli AF?!

--Mik

[Dunhovrin]

As a retired old f@rt I too miss the top banter from my RAF days (especially blunty-baiting). Closing this forum to us lot would be unfair (unless we had a 'sandbags and lanterns' forum??

Besides we all know media read this so wny deny those trapped inside the chance to drop their lord and master(bater)s in it??

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Surely it should be open (the forum that is) to non aircrew types like me who still have a legitimate interest in military aviation can add our views/opinions/knowledge?

[fobotcso]

Aw, c'mon Jacko, where's your sense of humour? You know you love it! :)

I have so far given no indication of my position re Israel vs Palestine but will gladly do so now. I hope that there will one day be a Nation State called Palestine living in harmony with its neighbours and that that end will be achieved without further bloodshed. So call me a romantic idealist.

But when a Condolences Thread in memory of a particular victim or group of victims of an atrocity is opened - our version of a Book of Remembrance - it is quite inappropriate to dilute the sentiments expressed by making political points about a different atrocity even if they can be related to each other. The innocent dead of any atrocity deserve that much respect.

Now let's loosen up! <img src="cool.gif" border="0">

[ 20 February 2002: Message edited by: fobotcso ]</p>

[Jackonicko]

Fobotsco!

You hypocrite! You've obviously read my last post.

But love and kisses to you anyway, old chap!

Mwah!

[Arkroyal]

With that rather unseamly public display of affection out of the way here's my pennorth.

Please keep it open. We exes like to keep in touch, and sometimes (I hope) post the odd jewel of use to those still serving their sentences. Likewise we keep in touch eith current views and banter, (espec the crab bating) <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

Probably the most important and influential thread so far in the forum (Brian Dixon's Chinook campaign) would have been grounded without it.

Introspective navel gazing for bitter crabs is not the way forward for this forum! :)

[nosefirsteverytime]

Aww come on lads, keep it open!

In relation to you guys, I'd be flying a pram! Because of my thickness at 12 years of age, I am stuck in school for an extra two years! This is my only insight into what the forces are like over the water (and I hope to becone the first Irish Air Corps PPRuNer!) After a hard day of doing things I should have done a year ago, getting frustrated, PPRuNe is the only place I can go and not be told to "shut up, straighten that tie! wait another 10 seconds before the bell rings" etc. At 4 o clock, I am twitching with frustration and I PPRuNe to unwind and talk to like minded souls! The milly forum would be a great loss if it was to be closed to us "spotter" types! (to tell the truth, I've never actually gone spotting, unless airshows count...)

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/spotter.gif http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/Tomcat.gif http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/tank.gif http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/cockpit.gif

(sorry aboot the smiley thing.....)

[ZQA297/30]

As someone whose career has been shaped to a large degree by the RAF I like to keep current with what goes on. . .My father and uncle were both WW2 pilots, and the stories they told fired my imagination and by age 5 I was irrevocably destined to be a pilot.. .( My uncle was Coastal command on Beaufighters, shot down over North Sea in winter, picked up by U-Boat, transferred to POW camp in Germany. My father was an instructor at Cranwell, and then on Mosquito night intruders). .Naturally my father taught me to fly.. .So 50 or more years later, I am a grizzled veteran of 18,000 hours civilian flying who still yearns for the excitement of military flying, even if by proxy.. .Keep the forum open!

[helmet fire]

I think after six pages, and Gorilla is still the only one whom admits considering closing the forum, there can be somewhat of a consensus that it should remain open (although it is with arrogance that we assume any say in the matter!).

Six pages of "Keep it open" calls. How about we now close the thread?

:) :)

[McD]

I'll be happy to close this particular thread, especially since it seems the "verdict" is overwhelmingly one-sided. If anyone wants further discussion on the topic, please feel free to start a new thread.

Many of you have made excellent points regarding why this should remain an Open Forum, and as far as I know, there are no plans to make it a Closed one.

On a side note, I would like to remind all contributors of the potential for a security breach. Sometimes, in the attempt to "show our knowledge" about a subject, there is a temptation to venture into areas which could constitute a violation of a country's Secrets Act (or equivalent). Many of you have been very helpful in the past in notifying PPRuNe Administrators of "problem" threads. Please continue to do so, and continue to use good judgment in your postings.

[ 22 February 2002: Message edited by: McD ]</p>

[Danny]

(Wiping tears of laughter away and dusting myself off after rolling about on the floor)

I have just 'discovered' this old thread and I can't believe how it evolved, just like a chinese whisper, from a discussion point by someone who felt the forum was becoming boring and not quite elitist enough into some kind of poll on whether it should remain open or closed to non 'military aviators'.

As in the Rumours & News forum, there will always be a minority of individuals who would prefer to hide their warts for fear of being branded human and not super human. They would like the rest of the non 'military aviator' community to think fo them as some special elite and that their craft should remain little more than a speculative kind of black magic.

As the majority have pointed out though, there would be a huge problem in identifying who would be eligible for this exclusive and elitist forum. Also, many of the contributors have assumed that it would only be open for Betty's Boys to be eligible. I seem to remember a letter in The Times a few years ago where someone was having a go at PPRuNe's successful military forum and suggested that the MoD open their own forum. I had my reply to the pompous silly old f@rt published and pointed out the reason this one was so successful was precisely because it was open to everyone.

Obviously, most of you have never had the misfortune to have a look in the private forums. Imagine a dusty old shanty town, tumbleweed rolling past you and a few bored old men rocking back and forth on their rocking chairs, not saying much and when they do you would rather poke yourself in the arm with a sharp stick as that would be more entertaining. THat is what the private forums are like. As soon as you close yourself into an insular group of 'serious' people who are trying to protect their image of super human abilities you end up with an inbred population who have no fresh blood and are about as evolutionary advanced as an amoeba!

You will always get people like Jackonocko trying to hijack the odd serious and even the not so serious threads with their biased and 'lefty luvvie' sentiments. Comments such as:And anyone who doesn't think I'm a useful contributor doesn't have to read it, though the less blinkered would do so and THEN decide that I'm a to$$er!...do nothing to endear themselves to me. I don't mind him contributing though. He just goes to prove that it takes all sorts to make a forum successful, even if he accepts that quite a few of us think he is a to$$er! :}

THis forum isn't going to change. It is the only one that isn't officially 'moderated'. I leave it to the ones who have learnt to trust us here at PPRuNe with the responsibility of listening to you when necessary and acting on the very rare occasions when someone tries to make out they are somehow superior by intimating that they know something that should remain secret to the masses. We deal with them as and when necessary. As for the other to$$ers, we have learnt that if you give them enough rope they will eventually do us all a favour and use it appropriately.

Mil Aircrew is just an area where topics that in some way are weighted to mil aircrew issues are discussed and is not exclusively for UK mil aircrew types, elitist or otherwise, to show off their superior abilities. :rolleyes: I know for a fact that there are Top Neddies from the UK who enjoy reading the banter as well as mil types from many other countries, not only english speaking ones, who enjoy reading some of the great threads that are on here.

[Jackonicko]

Donny,

If I'm a 'lefty luvvie' it's only by comparison with the kind of lunatic right wingers who vote for the UKIP, or who view Tony Martin as some kind of folk hero, or who can use the word 'liberal' in a perjorative sense.

:p

I'd have thought that you'd be a bit less grouchy at the mo, with Dubya back in the White House for another four years and with Arafat about to snuff it.

:rolleyes:

On a more serious note, the influx of wannabes and the sharp rise in whingeing, and perhaps the over moderation, has undeniably led to the loss of many of PPRuNe's most valued contributors. I haven't seen Smartman for a while, and I could list a whole bunch of former Pruners who seem to have given up.

[soddim]

Suggest that we should not worry too much about those we lose from this forum - happens in every voluntary activity - people move on.

What is important is that we allow every contributor the right to air their views and the more controversial they are the more likely the forum is to flourish. Hate it to be like the typical USAF debrief - a mutual admiration society! (happy if that is no longer the case because my knowledge is dated).

[Tonkenna]

I am so glad that this thread has been re-opened after it got me in the sh*t, having suggested the UASs have a private forum. One of the many threads to land me in it, though never to quite the level of BEags:ouch:

Tonks:)

[joe2812]

Tonkenna, I think a UAS private forum would be a good idea actually...

[Tonkenna]

Ummmmmm...don't even go there!!!!!


I thought so too BTW:}

Tonks:sad: :\

[BEagle]

Wills says "Hi", by the way, Tonks........;)

[The Gorilla]

Wow was it really 3 years ago I started this thread!!

I have to say in that time my own view has changed in that a lot of the bear baiters that were around then have obviously got fed up and moved on!!

That said, the whinging has dropped off a fair bit and I agree with you Jacko that a fair few of the regulars from 3 years ago are no longer around!! But as Soddim says that's life!!







:ok:

[Danny]

Well, now that we've sorted that one out I suggest a group hug (for Jackos sake :} ) and we all get on with looking after our interests.

Note the lack of reaction to the 'baiting' by Jacko. Now if only more posters were to ignore such type of baiting or fishing this website would be a doddle to moderate

[BEagle]

Group hug it is then - but strictly no tongues!

;)

[The Gorilla]

I love group hugs!!

It is very touchy feelly out here in civvie street and I do like that!!

:ok:

[Jackonicko]

Who is baiting who, here, Donny?

"You will always get people like Jackonocko trying to hijack the odd serious and even the not so serious threads with their biased and 'lefty luvvie' sentiments."

"I don't mind him contributing though. He just goes to prove that it takes all sorts to make a forum successful, even if he accepts that quite a few of us think he is a to$$er!"

Hmmm.

I doff my cap to a master baiter.


;) :p :rolleyes:

[moggiee]

by jackonicko: I doff my cap to a master baiter.

just brilliant!

[smartman]

Still observing Jacko -----

[Twinact]

I agree that this forum should remain open, we've had a wide variety of inputs from many backgrounds.

HOWEVER, could we have an additional forum for real military aircrew only and put us on a par with the airline types. Not sure how they police their forums.

[airborne_artist]

Not sure how they police they're forums.

They have to give the big four to the moderator, eg:


For current and recently-retired Virgin Atlantic employees. To apply for access to the Virgin forum, please send your name, staff number, base and Pprune Username to

Guess the mod for the serving Mil Aircrew only forum would be driven in one of these:


http://www.witham-sv.com/vehicles/296.jpg

[A10 Thundybox]

let's close the forum

No no, let's have a real mil forum

then an Ex-mil forum

Then a walter mitty pretend Mil forum for those who like the big watches and the cashet but can't actually be arsed to do it for real.

(wasn't there a Milkman from Norwich that claimed to be the staish at Wittering in order to chat up totty, meanwhile totty was Staish's daughter? Oops)

Bugger it leave it as it is, if you can't tell who's in/out journo or faker then shame on you.

I think it makes it a slightly more interesting forum and I always enjoy seeing bull$hitters being rumbled.

Thundy

[ukatco_535]

I'm an ex mil aviator, now a civvy... this forum is a good way to keep up to date and in touch. If you can't stand the heat or if you are too thin skinned/sensitive to take/respond to criticism, you are in the wrong job!

This forum is a good way for wannabes to get an insight, warts and all to the services, and although I agree that some posts or threads are pants, the majority are good.

[BEagle]

a_a - the MoD Mod wouldn't be driving one of those because:

1. The alloys are too expensive. MoD version would have simple pressed steel wheels.

2. Too much chrome. MoD version would be de-chromed.

3. MoD version would have dark windows....

Like that one outside my wind.....

I love Big Brother
I love Big Brother
Thoughtcrime is doubleplusungood

[moggiee]

Don't forget, BEags, that the MoD would pay extra to have the alloys, chrome and decent stereo removed (maybe even the aircon if fitted by the factory!).

[airborne_artist]

It's ex MoD though - for sale at witham-sv.com, who handle most ex MoD vehicle sales. Details here (http://www.witham-sv.com/infopage.php?ID=296&Overide=1)

Maybe it was for a ****, so he got to choose the allys.

[West Coast]

Last time I dropped in to a large thread here Jacko and Danny were going at it. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Sound familiar? (http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article09-208) :)